Lest we forget...

[fincastle84]

I'm sure that many of you who read this forum joined the RAF because you were, like me, inspired by the 'Few'.

I've just watched the wonderful service from Westminster Abbey celebrating the Battle of Britain, a fine tribute to those brave young men.

Per Ardua Ad Astra

[Neptunus Rex]

When I was commissioned in '64 our Reviewing Officer was one of "The Few," Air Commodore Al Deere DSO, OBE, DFC* RAF.
A rare privilege, aye remembered.

[Chugalug2]

It seems we are of the same generation, NR, for I was commissioned in 1962. At that time nearly all senior officers, and many of their juniors, had served in WW2. There was a quality about them that being young one took for granted, but in retrospect was probably unique to its time. For they knew the real value of dedication to duty, of moral as well as of physical courage, of the importance of "we" rather than "me". It all seemed to suffuse into a kind of tranquillity, that no matter what the challenges or problems, it was as nothing compared to what they had faced in the past. I do not simply refer to ex BoB nor even Fighter Command types, as being a Transport pilot we perhaps saw more of the ex-heavies of Bomber Command. Mickey Martin, Gus Walker, Lewis Hodges and many others exemplified the Air Officers of my day. I count myself blessed that I served in a substantial and well led RAF back then.

[jindabyne]

Aye to that fincastle - a fitting tribute indeed.

[Samuel]

Spitfire A L lands at Wellington Airport after a BoB display over the Cenotaph in Wellington NZ. Pilot is Sqn Ldr Sean Perret RNZAF, [but ex-RAF Red Arrows and Harriers]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/SPitfb.jpg

[Shack37]

I joined in 1960 as a B/E and although I cannot claim to personal acquaintance with those at dizzy heights I did have the privilege of serving under some SNCO's and WO's of WW2 vintage. The comments in Chugalug2's post is I think, equally appropriate to them. I also had the privilege of being groundcrew to one Flt. Lt. Abe Lincoln, Kiwi Shack pilot and ex Sunderlands who exemplified all the qualities mentioned in Chug's post.

I also found today's service from Westminster Abbey very moving.

[DC10RealMan]

Today (19th September) is the 66th anniversary of the death of W/C Guy Gibson and his navigator S/L James Warwick at Steenbergen, Holland in 1944.

[Chugalug2]

Shack37, it seems we also have something in common, ie one Abe Lincoln! Abe was a fellow skipper with me on 30 Squadron, flying Hercules in the late 60's/ early 70's. A bit of a father figure to the rest of us, he would often reminisce about his Sunderland days. You needed to be as good at Seamanship as Airmanship on it he would tell us. I guess the kipper fleet was always his first love as witness when you knew him on Shacks, though he came to us from the frozen wastes of the Antarctic, I seem to remember, where he flew a garishly bedaubed Twotter! BTW Abe if you are around and reading this PM me please, we'd love to see you again at the annual 30 bash!
I caught the full service on the repeat yesterday evening. As mentioned very moving, with some of the older of the old boys obviously very determined to be there to make their own tribute to those who didn't survive and to give thanks for our deliverance. I think that the Central Band should be given a mention, both for the music in the Cathedral, including a flawless last post and reveille, and for that played on the march past including, I was delighted to hear, Eagle Squadron. A genuine RAF March written by "Kenneth Alford" to celebrate the US pilots in the BoB and after. A nice change from all the film music that is so much of their repertoire.
Oh, one more thing. It wouldn't be right in a post about TV coverage not to have a pop at the Beeb, especially as they've rightly been getting all those accolades for their Wellum prog. Why do they always cut away from these parades before the cadets march past? It's the same every year on Remembrance Sunday as well. These lads and lasses put enormous effort into practising beforehand and are certainly always some of the smartest formations on parade, despite the ghastly woolly pullies that they presently are outfitted with. If we didn't all know how objective and unbiased our dear old aunt is one might suspect a bit of disapproval of cadet forces such as the ATC and CCF. That couldn't possibly be so though, could it? Well, could it?

[3rd_ear]

I'm incredibly impressed by the modesty of those Few who have appeared in TV
interviews this week (including the Douglas Bader 1965 interview) and their deference to "the many" who enabled them to do their job. Thoroughly level-headed and in no need of celebrity. Rare qualities these days.

Likewise the awesome awesome ATA pilots. To have flown 75-80 types without nav aids, radios, often flying multi-engined aircraft alone, and in respect of the women, to often look delicious with it - these people are as if giants from a mythological age. My jaw hangs open. They have my abiding respect.

[Shack37]

Shack37, it seems we also have something in common, ie one Abe Lincoln!


Yes indeed, he was crew 2 skipper on 37 in 66/67 where he had a close mate, also a pilot and skipper of another crew called Nick Nichol (sp). Each made a point of observing the other landing after a trip in the hope of finding something to criticise. It was rare if ever that fault could be found by either but it didn't stop them.:ok:

Agreed about the beeb.

[Neptunus Rex]

Chugalug 2 and Shack 37

In '70 I was lucky enough to be the skipper of one of three Shack crews deployed to provide airborne Search and Rescue cover By Appointment to Prince Charles, who was to open Parliament in Bermuda on his way back from an official visit to Australia.

The day before we left Ballykelly, our support Herc arrived and the captain was Abe Lincoln! What a gentleman. I had not met him before, but our Boss and the Flight Commanders all knew him. Abe and his crew supported us tirelessly through Lajes, Bermuda, Nassau and Acapulco. A terrific two weeks.

[shack]

I agree about the service held in Westminster. What I found fascinating were the medals or lack of in certain cases. I went to Halton in 1947 and started flying in 1951 and remember that to my eyes it was the older folk on the Squadron who had the medal ribbons, older being around 30, being of course ex-wartime, whereas yesterday it was the young ones with the medals. The CAS had only two. I assume a long Service and good conduct and one for being first in the NAAFI queue somewhere whereas at one point there was a WRAF Doc Sqdn.Ldr behind him who had been involved in at least three recent "events". How the world changes.

[exmover_and_happy]

No longer living in the UK so I missed seeing the service on TV, but I just wanted to throw in my memory of meeting a WW2 fighter pilot into the thread.

As a young airman serving at Northolt on the mid-70's we had a Devon pilot stationed there with 207 (Communications) Sqn. His name was Joe Kmiecik and was (I was told) the oldest pilot still flying in the RAF. Joe had flown Hurricanes with 303 Polish Sqn. also based out of Northolt, and as I recall he had an amazing story where he had escaped Poland and basically walked across Europe before making it to Britain. The story was that he continually refused promotion as it would have meant he stop flying and that was all he wanted to do, and so he remained a Flt Lt.

I was proud to have met him and to have shaken his hand. Does anyone know if he is still with us?

[Shack37]

Chugalug 2 and Shack 37

In '70 I was lucky enough to be the skipper of one of three Shack crews deployed to provide airborne Search and Rescue cover By Appointment to Prince Charles, who was to open Parliament in Bermuda on his way back from an official visit to Australia.

The day before we left Ballykelly, our support Herc arrived and the captain was Abe Lincoln! What a gentleman. I had not met him before, but our Boss and the Flight Commanders all knew him. Abe and his crew supported us tirelessly through Lajes, Bermuda, Nassau and Acapulco. A terrific two weeks.


Been trying to work out how I missed this one until I realised I was probably enjoying a Sharjah Mardet at the time.

Apologies to Fincastle84, end of thread drift.

[fincastle84]

Apologies to Fincastle84, end of thread drift.

Non required, I love to hear you old guys having a wander down memory lane!

Re ex-mover's post, it reminds me of when I was enduring my holding posting at MOD in 1969, awaiting my Shack OCU. I was fortunate enough to be living in Kenley OM when BBC TV was making a documentary about the BoB. They treated some of the Few to a dining in night & interviewed them during the evening. After the meal we 'livers in' were invited to join them in the bar.

There was a couple of the Polish pilots in attendance, sadly I can't remember their names. (Bruno Skawolski (sp)?) They could certainly drink! Ginger Lacey was there as well as Johnnie Johnson. It was a very special evening for a very junior pilot officer who was in a very sad state the following morning!

[Chugalug2]

OK, I'm really pushing my luck here and no doubt Pop will be on the scene soon to say, "Now move along you lot, you've all got homes to go to, nothing happening here", etc. However, hoping that he will take his usual kindly stance and allow of the broader all inclusive nature of the thread title rather than the OP's clear intention to limit it to the BoB (sorry fincastle!) I'll chance my arm with yet another old man's meanderings.
EMAH, you mentioned the exploits of Joe Kmiecik. I never met him but his story is very similar to that of Victor Fontes. He was a large (in every sense of the word!) Hastings navigator on my first Squadron, 48 at Changi, in 1963. In a past life he had been a Polish Cavalry Officer who charged German tanks for a living until the ref blew the final whistle. He and a great many others then fled south to the Black Sea. There they embarked and were shipped through the Med to Gib, trans-shipped there to France, disembarking just in time for its fall. Victor then again fled south, this time over the Pyrenees and into Spain. Captured and thrown into one of Franco's Concentration Camps, he escaped and legged it to the border (La Linea) and back to Gib. There he was interrogated by the Brits.
"What do you want to do?", he was asked. "I want to kill F..ing Germans", he replied (his knowledge of colloquial English remained at much the same level to my day). "Well what do you do?", was the next question. "I am Polish Cavalry Officer" he proudly announced. "I'm afraid we haven't any openings for Cavalry Officers, Polish or otherwise". Again, "I want to kill F..ing Germans", meant somehow this loop had to be broken. The British informed him that the only organisation then conducting continuous Offensive Operations against the Germans was RAF Bomber Command. With that prize before him Victor immediately volunteered and became an RAF Bomber Pilot! It was only post war reorganisation that had him change to Nav. As with most of the Poles in HM Forces at the end of the war, going home to a Communist regime in Poland was not an option.
Remarkable as Victor and Joe's stories are, they were par for the course for the RAF Poles. They are often portrayed by us in films as comic and ill disciplined chattering clowns. They were nothing of the sort. They had a burning and understandable hatred of what the Germans had done and continued to do to their country. They were amongst the bravest and fiercest of aircrew in the RAF of whatever Command. Those in the BoB I think had the highest kill rate of any other national group.

[Neptunus Rex]

Another great privilege I enjoyed came just after graduation from FTS at Syerston in early summer of '65. One of our course mates was getting married, so several of us were at the wedding. In the early evening, as the reception was ending, the Best Man announced that we were invited as guests at the Polish Ex-Servicemen's Club in Scunthorpe, so off we trooped.

What a night. Five fresh-faced Pilot Officers in No 1 uniform, complete with three-day-old wings. The Polish families welcomed us like long-lost nephews. Several of them had been BoB pilots, Hurricanes mostly, and did they have tales to tell. My abiding memory is of the relish with which they told their tales, but also of the humour, charm and modesty of them all. One quote I shall always remember:
"Two ******* years to get from Poland to Spitfire. All repaid when I get first German ******* in gunsight!"

Gentlemen warriors, to a man!

[Shack37]

Non required, I love to hear you old guys having a wander down memory lane!


Definitely end of drift:{

[PPRuNe Pop]

Moi Chug! Not on your life. I enjoy these tales. I was one who watched a small part of the BoB in mid August 1940 overhead just a mile or so from Croydon. Then met some of the 'few' in 2000 who were ACTUALLY involved. A thrill of my lifetime I can tell you. I have a picture of some of the few - mostly 501 Sqdn.

Watched the 'Spitfire Women' on BBC4 last night - what utter bravery and skill! I doubt that there are many who could handle a four engined aeroplane these days - ON THEIR OWN!

The BBC have pulled the stops out this year and my recorders have been working overtime.....:ok:

[fincastle84]

Definitely end of drift

Is 'end of drift' related to '3 drift' wind?

[Shack37]

Is 'end of drift' related to '3 drift' wind?


Could once have provided an instrument that may have differentiated or defined the relationship but probably out of stock now. Changed many on the hoof when stores (sorry I mean supply) could be persuaded to release one.

[morningmorning]

(Today (19th September) is the 66th anniversary of the death of W/C Guy Gibson and his navigator S/L James Warwick at Steenbergen, Holland in 1944.)

There are a couple of people in Steenbergen who maintain the graves there and have a service on the anniversary. My dad (ex AEO) has been and was treated royally by them.

I was sorry not to find the movie of the BoB on tv last weekend to chain my teenagers to the floor and watch so made do with Carve Her Name With Pride. Had the same effect - awe and amazment even though it was in B&W.

[Spelunker]

Polish Cavalry Officer who charged German tanks

Sorry sir, but that is a very common myth about the Polish Cavalry and soldiers.


A good book i suggest reading if you're interested in the truth about Poland's involvement in WW2.
Amazon.com: No Greater Ally: The Untold Story of Poland's Forces in World War II (General Military) (9781849084796): Kenneth K. Koskodan: Books (http://www.amazon.com/No-Greater-Ally-Polands-Military/dp/1849084793/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285569469&sr=1-1)


An excellent book about the infamous Polish Fighter Kosciuszko Squadron 303, and their involvement in the Battle of Britain.
Amazon.com: A Question of Honor: The Kosciuszko Squadron: Forgotten Heroes of World War II (9780375726255): Lynne Olson, Stanley Cloud: Gateway (http://www.amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/037572625X/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285569066&sr=8-1)

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Spelunker, at the risk of being accused of membership of the dread Speeling'n'grammer ( :cool: ) Police, I wonder if you really meant 'infamous' in connection with 303 Sqn? I was under the impression they were held in high regard.

[micknt8]

Sorry for the belated reply-I only recently joined! I was proud to be aquainted with Joe in the early 70's when I was a civilian radar tech at RAF Northolt. Joe often did GCA duty. Completely unflappable. If the PAR died in the arse (happened quite often as it was an old MPN 11) Joe would look out the door and continue the talkdown! I believe he was tragically electrocuted in the 80's. Also, reference long serving pilots, I believe the SWO at Cottesmore with the Afghan hound mentioned in these columns was my father, Master Pilot B.J. Adamek. He started in 1944 flying Wimpeys and I think finished his last flying tour on Twin Pioneers in Sharjah in 1970.