BMI 30+

[monkeynutz]

Guys, before i start just want to point out that I'm not a porker but I do have a BMI over 30, from the age of about 14 I have played a very high level of Rugby in the UK up to about 5 years ago and at my very fittest I was 15st 7Ilbs which for a rugby player standing at 5''8' is pretty standard, guys are weighing in at a lot more these days!!

I have to be honest and say that I would seriously struggle to make a BMI of 30 I've always been very heavily built I have a 36'' waist and a 48'' chest at the moment but intend to lose a couple of inches and drop down to about 15 stone but that will take me several months of hard work and serious discipline.

Do EK take build into account at all, I had the same problem when I went through Army Selection but once they saw me I was signed off fit!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, oh and no oink oink jokes..

Cheers

MN

[Balthazar_777]

Mate,

I dont work for Emirates, so sorry, i can't answer your question.

BUT, I would love to have a chest 12 inches bigger than my gut. My understanding is that BMI is only a guide and that stomach size is more of an indicator of late life health problems. I believe Emirates want you to have a waist of 40 inched or less.

Anyway, good luck.

[Red max]

I don't work for EK .
One limitation of the BMI is that it doesn't take Athletic bodies in account (so i have read) muscles make you weight more etc, if you don't have alot of body fat i think you will be alright, and i don't think you will be rejected based on BMI , as long as you can pass the medical!!

[Brutus 5]

I am not fat, just too short for the weight!!!:D

[flying lid]

On a recent Etihad flight (MAN-AUH), I remember one of the cabin crew was huge !!. An arabian guy (I think), over 6', very well built and fit, strode up and down the isle with an air of authority, seemingly missing nothing or nobody (i.e you knew he was there). Pleasant guy though when serving meals, especially with the kids, sort of guy you need "on your side" should an "incident" occur !!

I remember saying to the wife - "He's the bouncer" - And for all I know, he probably was !!!!!.

Lid

[MrSandman]

People in this part of the world can't see that not only is 1+1=2 but so is 6-4.

[gadgetman]

They treat BMI as a guide only, and if it's apparent you're doing some weight training or even just keeping pretty fit they'll give you a pass.

BMI has been utterly discredited as a method of gauging a person's fitness for the last 20+ years, it's ludicrous that they even mention it.

[BackpackPilot]

The doctors issue a medical certificate based on the GCAA requirements for a healthy pilot. PASS or FAIL. Simple as that.

What people don't seem to understand is that the company then insists the doctor passes on specific information on your health to the chief pilots. IE: your BMI.

The CPs then decide on what action to take regarding your health, which "may include dismissal".

Unfair? Unethical? Illegal? Welcome to the Middle East. And the company doctors are complicit in this sham.

[Dave Clarke Fife]

Monkeynutz...............exactly the same situation for me i.e tall (6'4") second row man and BMI at 29. When I got my current job ( UK based ) the company doc wanted to see me after he had assesed my medical info. Upon disrobing in his office he muttered something along the lines of "Ah, that exlains that" and did a quick poke n prod and signed me off as ok to start.

My current AME simply wrote something about athletic/muscular build on my notes and I've never had any problems or questions about my BMI

[springbok449]

I cant 100% confirm this but I think that the recruitment "screening team" have been told not to even process your application states a BMI over 30...Its crazy!!

[Mr Good Cat]

Guys, before i start just want to point out that I'm not a porker but I do have a BMI over 30, from the age of about 14 I have played a very high level of Rugby in the UK up to about 5 years ago and at my very fittest I was 15st 7Ilbs which for a rugby player standing at 5''8' is pretty standard, guys are weighing in at a lot more these days!!

I have to be honest and say that I would seriously struggle to make a BMI of 30 I've always been very heavily built I have a 36'' waist and a 48'' chest at the moment but intend to lose a couple of inches and drop down to about 15 stone but that will take me several months of hard work and serious discipline.

Do EK take build into account at all, I had the same problem when I went through Army Selection but once they saw me I was signed off fit!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, oh and no oink oink jokes..

Cheers

MN


Monkeynutz,

They are pretty strict about BMI but they aren't that stupid, they can see when someone is more muscle than fat.

I will say one thing though; this 100 hour a month long-haul business at EK leaves you sat in your seat for hours on end with no physical exertion, but leaves you too mentally tired to motivate yourself for exercise on your days off...

It is very easy to suddenly find yourself ballooning a couple of stone if you've a healthy appetite bearing in mind no one walks anywhere in Dubai especially in the summer.

If you've played rugby at a high-level there's plenty of opportunities to keep in trim down in Dubai, even if it's only training (not sure how EK would view you getting an injury and missing work if you played full contact).

If you're a Union man there's EKs team 'the muppets' as well as Dubai Exiles which may suit your standard. And if you really want to get put through your paces the UAE Falcons Rugby league team trains down at Zabeel Park a couple of times a week, think they've got some guys who've played at a pretty high level in Oz.:ouch:

There's always nice gyms at the hotels too.

MGC

[monkeynutz]

Guys,

Just want to say a massive thank you for all the feedback and general support. Writing this on my iPhone which takes forever so going to keep this one short. I too have heard that if your BMI is over 30 on the application form you automatically get rejected, can anyone offer guidance on this issue.

As for playing rugby out there, would be very interested but would always be concerned about injury, as I have already had a detached shoulder tendon. But you never know, enjoy the social side to it though hence the extra couple of inches!!!

Again thanks for all the positive replies.

MN

[Metro man]

I too have heard that if your BMI is over 30 on the application form you automatically get rejected, can anyone offer guidance on this issue.

Yes, I was advised to reapply once I was under BMI 30.:{ They still retain your application but it doesn't go any further until either your height or weight changes to alter the index. As I don't think I'm going to get any taller I'll have to lose weight.;)

[springbok449]

This is so ridiculous, as we all know the BMI means nothing...
I flew with a guy the other day, he was about 175cm but must have weighed in at 50kg maximum, he smoked and drank as if it was going out of fashion, for breakfast he had a cigarette and an espresso and generally had a petty unhealthy lifestyle.
I think he was about 40 but looked more like 55 anyway he according to the GCAA he is a fit individual and is signed off to hold an unrestricted medical without any further blood testes etc...go and figure.
In the meantime, people are being looked over because their BMI is over 30 but yet are fit, healthy sporty individual...:ugh:

[Jihad Jim]

Hey Springbok Im 52kg , it was a marlboro light decaff nonalchoholic whiskey and I have a thyroid like an elephants boll0ck.

Seriously though , the only guys being given grief are the high BMIs with big fat tummys and or alarming blood work which correlates with the visual height weight INITIAL indicator.

Now I dont agree with the implementation of the njam winning BMI programme but the sudden increase in every South African suddenly having a past career as a Springbok prop is highly amusing. There are a few healthy ones but alot are big men but are basically big fat men claiming to be rugby experts. That is to say the sun has set on their misty eyed rugby careers and they just have a gut. Now coupled with the mass and medium to high blood work is an indicator of potential future problems.Take it as a positve feedback and lose weight. Who knows you may lose a few inches from you gut and gain a few inches of schlong you havent seen for a while.

As for the applicants. The BMI requirement sight unseen is an unfortunate side effect of a HR driven process and I hope will be addressed by the Pilot recruiters not the office wallahs.

Easy formula.
6 feet 4 inches + muscle = ok
6 feet 4 inches + muscle plus beer gut and bitch tits = not ok
:ok:

[springbok449]

JJ,

Good points but the only thing I was trying to point out is that at a time when ME airlines are in need of pilots, using the BMI as a determining criteria before even calling people for an interview is crazy!

There are some very fit and healthy BMI over 30 people around whether or not they were part of any Veteran Boks team...;)

Anyway my BMI is below 30 (just) so I am alright Jack...

[Old King Coal]

GCAA guidance to Aero Medical Examiner's (AME's) about weight and issuing of the Medical Certificate is provided in UAE GCAA CAAP 19 - Aeromedical (http://gcaa.ae/en/ePublication/_layouts/GCAA/ePublication/DownloadFile.aspx?Un=/en/epublication/admin/Library%20Pdf/Civil%20Aviation%20Advisory%20Publication%20(CAAP)/CAAP19%20-%2020%20June%202010.pdf) (<-- 2.3Mb PDF) in particular see section 5.10 Obesity.

[Metro man]

This is what the reply looks like if you're BMI 30+


Please be advised that our medical team has set standards for Body Mass Index. Our acceptable range is above 16 and below 30. BMI can be calculated by dividing your weight in kilos by your height in meters squared. Your BMI is presently outside of this range. We are thus unable to process your application until you are within this range. When you are able to meet this requirement please update your application.

Yours sincerely,

Pilot Recruitment

This is a computer generated letter and bears no signature.

This is a system generated message, please do not reply.

[monkeynutz]

Cheers MM,

Bit of a catch 22 then, can't get passed the application with a BMI in excess of 30 and can't get the doc to sign me off fit unless he/she sees me..interesting one!!!

[haughtney1]

Monkey, if you want it bad enough, you'll lose the weight.

My situation was that my BMI was 31.2, so it transpired I had to lose 7kg in about 5 weeks.
Guess what, I did it, in fact when I got weighed by the local guy in DXB I'd lost 9kg.
I lived on Tuna salads, and egg noodles for 5 weeks.. I also walked for 2 hrs a day at every opportunity after buying a book on body building diets and fat loss.
So if you want to..you can do it.
Just my 7kg's worth.

[Willie Everlearn]

Just curious, at a time when EK are finding it tougher and tougher to attract and enlist crew to apply and join up, why create restrictions like BMI limitations to influence who they will and won't process???
What? Your BMI is of greater significance or concern than whether or not you smoke a deck of cigarettes a day?? :confused:
I don't think I'll modify my lovely pear shape anytime soon. It's taken me years and years of airline food, fast food, dining out and all the other nasty habits an airline career provides to get to my present state. I thought they were looking for experienced crew? WTF are they thinking?

(tongue-in-cheek)
Willie :ok:

[alwayzinit]

Yup its a vicious circle.

Fly you 100 per month with rest patterns all in the 18-30hrs bracket, which in turn, as previously stated, leaves you totally fooked. You therefore have a major attack of the velcro sheets virus. This in turn makes one's previously Rugbyesk chest slip southwards!

Go for annual medical knowing you are going to be given a hard time so you get stressed, you BP goes up:eek:,and those nice people at the German Heart Clinic get another 2000+ aed to wire you up for 24 hr BP monitoring which shows that actually all is ok with your BP etc and you can be licenced to kill for another year..............when lo it all starts again!

So you vow to walk 20+mins a day .......... which you do until some guy called Al :cool: tries to run you over whilst he texts his girlfriend driving his 4x4.

Decide that discretion is the better part of valour and go back to driving everywhere.

Wide body pilots for wide body jets is wot I says Govner:ouch: and make sure you get some proper rest.

[dustyprops]

Straight from the horses (sorry doc) mouth. There is no compromise, get below BMI 30 or else no entrance. Once you're in here, it's on a case by case. Just back from the clinic, doc says they are doing shed loads of interview medicals and farming loads out as well. Don't reckon the BMI issue is a big one in terms of getting people to interview. Plenty in the range.

[Willie Everlearn]

Wow!
Sounds like a fun place to work.
:ok:

[Mr Good Cat]

Please be advised that our medical team has set standards for Body Mass Index. Our acceptable range is above 16

Fook!

Is that physically possible?

Must be ex-loco pay-to-fly pilots who can't afford a decent lunch :eek:

[Fear_of_heights]

What about if you are between 29-30? Will they give you hard time cause you are close to 30 bmi or they just don't care? My date is coming up so I am liviving on noodles the last couple days to drop below 29.....Btw do they weigh you with clothes and shoes and subtract certain kilos depends on the clothes you wear?

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Things will get easier for +30's when they can't get enough applicants, fact. They would rather do this than base out of DXB :}:}

SyB :zzz:

[Mr Good Cat]

What about if you are between 29-30? Will they give you hard time cause you are close to 30 bmi or they just don't care? My date is coming up so I am liviving on noodles the last couple days to drop below 29.....Btw do they weigh you with clothes and shoes and subtract certain kilos depends on the clothes you wear?

Nice try, but I'm afraid you're butt nekked! Or as close as dammit!

You could always claim to be wearing lead-lined underpants though, and just hope they don't ask you to whip everything off like some of the doctors like you to...:E

Anyone who's experienced Dr Akel's ass-peep show on the original interviews will vouch for this:oh:

[TIG]

Well said, I have been in insurance in the UK for the past 27 years, recently moved to Qatar specializing in Life insurance.
We had many an argument with the insurance companies when they would rate clients solely on their BMI. In the past few years we have seen a trend away from just BMI and with some persuasion; we can now get the underwriters to take into account chest, waist and even thigh measurements .
Would any one like to tell Lawrence Dallaglio that according to his BMI he is Obese??
:ok:

[Mr Good Cat]

I'm not sure Dallaglio would be classed as Obese, he's one of the fitter forwards and has plenty of height.

You'd struggle to find a prop who could sneak in at under 30 though!

[monkeynutz]

Lawrence Dallaglio

Life and times

Name: Lorenzo Bruno Nero Dallaglio OBE.

Born: 10 August 1972, Shepherd's Bush, London.

Vital statistics: 6ft 3in, 17st 9lb.

Position: Flanker/No 8.

Nicknames: Del Boy.

BMI = 30.8 = OBESE - go figure.....:D

[BlueSkiesNTailWinds]

I was invited to Emirates Flight Crew Selection SIM Assessment in Atlanta in about two weeks -- my BMI is just under 30 (so my application passed) but my waist is slightly above 40. Does anyone know if they are checking BMI or waist size at these SIM assessments? I'm hoping they'll keep their focus only on the sim.. that way I'll have some time to fire up the p90x and get below the 40 inch cutoff :ok:

Any thoughts?

[dustyprops]

Sit ups mate, and lots of them!

[Craggenmore]

I was there a few weeks ago and passed all selection. I also lost 9kg to qualify.

One of the other guys who passed with me from our selection course was over the limit of 30. Emirates have put him on hold until he loses the necessary weight. Once he has, a start date is his........

Get jogging guys:ok:

[BlueSkiesNTailWinds]

That's good to hear! :D
Thanks for the info! and yes --- sit-ups lots of sit-ups :uhoh:

[Landflap]

I think someone else mentioned that the Company provides Life Insurance and that is why there is additional requirement. One would think that a class one medical provided by CAA approved medics would satisfy the beancounters in admin. However, I believe most companies require additional standards. BA, for example, state quite clearly that the Company medical is to a higher standard than that required by the UK CAA !

Notwithstanding (no pun intended), Companies do use additional medical standards to filter out the unwanted. I have stories of GF & CX doing this for years. HR going to the medics and asking if there is a way to reject certain people. If the reject comes from the medics, they cover themselves by saying that the information is confidential. Your application ceases from that point on.

The quacks are, too, famous for wearing blinkers. They love criteria not proved and you just have to fit the profile. All self perpetuating and self interested with levels of arrogance, absolutely astonishing.

I think as professional pilots, we have done this to ourselves by not, jointly, protesting against arbitrary(no spell check, sorry) medical standards set by Companies rather than approved Licencing Authorities.

As a plump school kid, I passed the RAF medical but resisted a 16 year Commission. I applied to the RN (5 year commission) but failed the medical. Doc said, to quote Shakespear, "There is too much of thee". Perhaps I would not have fitted into a RN Bucaneer.

Different horses for course but this BMI stuff is just plan daft. Oh, and those who judge us, would, in many cases, fail their own criteria.easily !