How far would you take this?

[Sable Knight]

I recently travelled with my wife to a fantastic weekend break to Paris. The only let down was on the return trip. We were travelling with FlyBE (or FlyMayBE as some of us refer it), the flight was delayed (no announcements/apology or any information. I asked a cabin crew member while she was performed her "sales" tour what time are we due to land in Birmingham.

This was greeted with a long sigh, followed by a flick through a timetable to give an ETA. Now i would have dismissed the long sigh as an over worked crew member on her way home. The tipping point was when i thanked the crew memeber for her help her reply was and i quote "thank you for wasting my time, i have better things to then to pander to your demands".

Would you accept that as a paying member of the public? where would you take it from here?. (Yes, we did not pay for the flights, but i have travelled with the airline enough to earn free flight)

[PAXboy]

I think the words that you have used are just as they should be sent to the airline. You show that you asked a reasonable question and got an unreasonable reply.

Since a revised ETA must be one of the most usual things to be asked, I would expect them to reply in a reasonable manner.

[TopBunk]

I would not condone the cabin crew's attitude in any way

.... but ....

even if I had not listened to the preflight announcement which probably included the flight time and had forgotten to look at my watch when we took off, it isn't difficult to guess that the flight would be 'about' 1 hour and then be able to guess the arrival to within 10 minutes or so.

Is knowing it to any greater accuracy than that really that necessary, personally I would doubt it.

Cabin crew on short sectors like that are usually pretty busy, and taking up even a couple of minutes of their time can seriously disrupt the service flow.

I think you need to take a chill pill.

[frontcheck]

totally disagree with you topbunk, the request was not unreasonable but the response.

[G SXTY]

As a Flybe pilot I would be very disappointed if one of my colleagues answered a reasonable request in that manner. If you feel strongly enough about it, contact the airline, advise them what happened and the flight details, and they can take it up with the crew member concerned.

However, I would make a couple of observations. Firstly, in my experience, during the captain's (or FO's) welcome PA, if the flight is delayed, we would invariably apologise and do our best to explain the reason for the delay. I tend to go one further and repeat the message (and the latest ETA) during the cruise PA. More times than I care to remember this is followed swiftly by a call from the cabin: "A passenger wants to know what time we'll be landing". In other words, many PAs are not heard or listened to.

Secondly, I could give you a litany of examples of passenger comments ranging from sarcasm through extreme rudeness to downright offensiveness. I hear much of it from the flight deck as people board. For example, the business traveller who got on this morning and asked: How late are we going to be today?" (We boarded 20 minutes before scheduled departure, pushed 5 minutes early and arrived at our destination 15 minutes early). Or the chap who was shouting (literally) at the cabin crew last week because he'd got wet walking to the aircraft and was convinced there was a conspiracy to delay boarding until it started raining. Or the respectable looking 'gentleman' who reduced one of our senior cabin crew members to tears and called him a "poof". I could go on, but you get the point. The cabin crew have to put up with this every day, and while I have no doubt someone is about to tell me it's part of the job, they are only human, and we all have a breaking point. It's quite possible (likely even) that the cabin crew member who spoke to you had a similar incident prior to your conversation, and had simply run out of patience.

I am not suggesting that you yourself were rude, or that you don't listen to the PAs, nor am I attempting to condone the crew member's behaviour – I am merely offering one possible explanation, as well as trying to explain the environment in which they work.

[JEM60]

G-SIXTY. Good post. I have never understood why people on very short haul create such bad feeling. It is, after all, merely a bus!!. Your FA was probably having a bad day. She/he wouldn't be in the job with an attitude like this. We all have bad days. If I'm having one, then I always think that there are many people having a far worse time than me. I would let the incident go, but if it happened again, then, perhaps, do something about it. But that's just me.

[AlpineSkier]

G SIXTY

Using your above example about PA's, it is clear that not only are the passengers not listening , but also the cabin crew if they need to buzz you a couple of mins later to check times.

This would seem to be particularly unintelligent as experience ought to tell them that after a delay they will get many queries about ETA.

[G SXTY]

Well, they do get to listen to anything up to six welcome and cruise PAs per day, while looking after a cabin full of passengers, so it's hardly surprising if they have switched off by the nth "Good evening from the flight deck . . . "

Or maybe it's just my voice, who knows.

[Lotpax]

Sable Knight

I wouldn't even waste your time even worrying about someone who presents themselves as if they have the IQ of pond life.

[PaperTiger]

where would you take it from here?Nowhere. Shrug it off and move on, haven't people ever been rude to you before?

If you must do something, boycott flyBe.

[shon7]

I would write to the airline. I can tell you from experience that unless you send in something in writing no action will be taken even if the action simply involves a generic apology or a talk with the crew member involved.

The comments are unacceptable but not alarming and you already see one post trying to explain this behaviour --- which really is a sad reflection on the state of the industry. This used to be a customer "service" business but there are many out there who will try and convince you that it is really a "customer enforcement" business and that fare paying passengers are really the enemy in disguise!

[5552N0426W]

Swap your job for theirs for a day then make a post!!

[Diplome]

5552N0426W:

I hardly think it is a requirement of SLF to have to serve as a Cabin Crew, engineer, pilot, etc., before they are allowed to post a commentary regarding their experience, observations, etc..

Sable Knight:

If what you relate is an accurate representation then I would simply write a letter to the airline. You would be doing them a favor.

And to those who would defend the behavior due to this individual having to deal with SLF I would offer that its a little difficult for Cabin Crew to remain employed if we are removed as an impediment.

[Ancient Observer]

Diplome is spot on.

I often, (but not always) get the feeling that some airline staff regard customers as a timewasting distraction.

Write to the airline's CEO and complain in the strongest possible terms.

If we Customers were so bad, the "Thick passenger comments " thread would be 4,000 pages long. It isn't - it is 44 pages long. For comparison, Mornington Crescent is 226 pages long.

[Bealzebub]

How far would you take this?

I am sure you are a sensible chap and the answer would seem obvious.

If a crewmember was rude to you then you can write to the customer services department at the airline concerned. What will normally happen then is that the letter will be copied to the relevant department manager for action or comment. Depending on the nature of the complaint, the person concerned may be invited to comment and put their side of the story. The matter will then be referred back to customer services and in due course you will probably receive a short reply apologising for whatever inconvenience you experienced on that flight.

Obviously there is no excuse for rudeness, and even though this thread is only one viewpoint, the assumption is events are as you described. Since no criminal act took place, and you don't seem to have suffered any tangible damages, there isn't much else you can do other than complain to the airline concerned. How far they take it, is a matter for them.

If you don't patronise that business as a result of this experience that is your choice and their loss. If you write a letter of complaint, then you will be able to properly express your displeasure. The crewmember will have the opportunity to explain their side of the story to their manager. You should receive an apology. That is about it.

[PaperTiger]

Obviously there is no excuse for rudeness...Although there may be a reason for it.

OP states the FA was doing the sales cart thing and yet that was no impediment to asking about the ETA. Which
a) the FA likely had no way of knowing
b) OP could have figured it out as mentioned above
c) could have waited until she wasn't busy.

If the FA had bitten her tongue with something along the lines of "I dont know Sir, the captain will no doubt update us when he knows" would OP still have been miffed ?

Cool Important Guy asks 'stewardess' question and is rebuffed. Hope the travelling companion was sufficiently impressed :ouch: .

[fincastle84]

Swap your job for theirs for a day then make a post!!

If that's the attitude of anyone working for an airlline then I despair! Anyone who works in a business where they interface directly with their customers has to perform in an accepted manner. If they don't like the public, find another job.

Moving on, by all means write to customer services. I've only flown FlyBe on a few occasions but have always been impressed with their product. A huge improvement on Ryan & Easy. One would hope that they would respond positively to a negative report about one of their employees.

[SwissRef]

Politeness costs nothing. Rudeness is not acceptable in any environment, especially in a customer service environment.

And as a Customer, I don't care what the day of the FA has been like, what has happened to them personally, how busy they are, or any of that other stuff. They are there to provide a service, and to serve me. Politeness should be automatic. If you can't answer a question, say so in a polite way, offer to find out, or say "I'm sorry, but I don't know. I am busy at the moment, but I'll see if I can find out when I've finished this" or similar.

So if they had said what was mentioned above to me - a complaint form would have gone in.

Note - I want politeness directed to me (the customer) and also thing that this is a 2 way street - so I am always polite to them. BUT I am the customer, and they are there to serve me. This is not a 100% equal relationship.

[TightSlot]

To answer Sable Knight's original question - If somebody was rude to him/her, the appropriate course to take would be to write/phone and make their comments known to the company managers in order that measures may be taken to prevent recurrence: This would be the course you would take in any such situation in any industry. As to whether it is worth it, nobody can answer that except Sable Knight - in truth, I suspect that the original question was rhetorical.

Could we all try and move on now that the question has been answered?

[L'aviateur]

This is a situation that should be reported, without a doub't. It is almost definately a problem with an 'individual' as generally FlyBE cabin crew are generally very good.
If i'm faced with someone like this, in any situation where I am the customer, I would make an effort to get this persons name without enraging the situation any further and make a complaint.
Yes there could be many reasons why I person is curt, it could you be your attitude towards them, they could be having a bad day or serious personal problems, or that person could just be a rude person and a few complaints like that could help a manager coach, discipline or fire that person.
If I was the manager in this situation, I'd definately want someone to communicate this, and if I received multiple complaints about someone would deal with them appropriately.

Asking cabin crew for an updated ETA, well i've done that a few times when I haven't heard the announcement (maybe because it wasn't announced or I was asleep), and have always received a polite reply. Why would someone want to know this? Well it lets you have chance to think ahead about your change of plans, whether you'll make the connection or the next train. Which whilst you cannot affect the outcome, does let you have some to decide what your options are. I'm not an impulsive person, prefer to plan.

[JEM60]

Sorry, again just thinking it's making a mountain out of a molehill. Worst things in life than this to get worked up over. If I made a complaint over everything that happened that was not to my liking, I wouldn't have time to enjoy life at all!!. Sable Knight has had all the necessary advice he needs, so it's up to him to do as he pleases. I wonder whether people write to the Airline when the service has been exceptional. Somehow, I doubt it, although I have done so.

[KBPsen]

Maybe it's because I paid attention in school or maybe I am just exceptionally bright, but when I book a flight I am always informed of the departure and arrival times.

From that I am able to work out the trip time, often even without the use of a calculator. Recently I even discovered that if the departure is 45 minutes late I will most likely also arrive 45 minutes late. The real advantage of this method is that it is not confined to 45 minute delays only, but will actually work with any delay.

This method may be used free of charge. It also spares one the torment of having to interact with the servants.

[L'aviateur]

KBPsen

Rather naive to think that 45 minutes late will mean a 45 minute delay to landing... Possibly so on an easyjet into a an airfield that receives one flight a day. But in my experience a 10 minute delay into places like Amsterdam or Heathrow can still arrive 30 minutes early or an hour late do to whatever procedures, runway and knock on effects are in place.
Also with certain airlines, the published times are often about 20 minutes later then the actual, probably to absorb some of the delay.
Anyway regardless, asking a simple question should not be met with such a reply from someone in a 'customer service' role.
And remember, Cabin crew are 'Customer Service' personnel with some training in safety procedures and crowd management. An airline exists to earn money though providing a 'service'.
Complaining is not excessive, it's just that the British public are too polite to complain.
If I was running the business, I would WANT feedback. I wouldn't be happy employing someone with that kind of attitude, or at the least would want to be able to deal with that and find out why. If she was like that with one person, how many others is she like that with.

[golfbananajam]

And remember, Cabin crew are 'Customer Service' personnel with some training in safety procedures and crowd management.

sorry LA, I think you have this back to front!! Cabin Crew prime responsibility is safety.

[Capetonian]

KBPsen

Not only naive but displays considerable ignorance and arrogance, or maybe it was just a misguided, and failed, attempt at humour.

[L'aviateur]

golfbananajam

No i'm pretty sure I got it the right way round for most airlines, the airline is offering a service. The safety side as, from an airline point of view, and unfortunate necessity at great expense. The service, in flight services, in flight sales etc are what keep an airline earning money. Safety is there by the regulators to ensure those people are still alive after they purchase the duty free!

[KBPsen]

Now men, if you want make it appear as if we are dealing with rocket science here then by all means go ahead.

But it is somewhat similar to someone coming here to have a good whine while pretending to ask a question. A premise made up to legitimise the real purpose.

[Lotpax]

KBPsen

You cannot determine the arrival time using your method.

The OP asked a perfectly reasonable question and received a rude reply.

Personally I would either speak to the SCC member there and then or forget about it.

If I spoke to the SCC, I'd also bear in mind that the rude person might be under some form of stress and would tend to approach it as a matter of concern, hoping that the SCC would be smart enough to join up the dots and deal with the behaviour in the best way.

Seeking opinions about being spoken to like this is not whining, it is one of the reasons this forum was established.

[TightSlot]

Seeking opinions about being spoken to like this is not whining, it is one of the reasons this forum was established.

Well it is, actually (whining that is) - and it isn't what it was set up for.

There has been nothing posted here which can possibly have assisted the OP in coming to a decision: He clearly already possesses sufficient education and intelligence to work it out for himself. No advice was necessary. The original question was rhetorical. I don't seek to defend the crew member involved for a moment - rudeness is never excusable. Life is full of rude people, and inconsiderate and unhelpful people also - we all meet them on a daily basis, in all walks of life. As adults, we all regularly make adult decisions about how to deal with each specific situation, on a rolling basis - most of us don't bother to come on a bulletin board to get advice about, say, a rude receptionist in a dental surgery, or indeed, anything else.

The Pax/SLF forum wasn't originally intended to be a forum primarily for complaint - it was intended as an interface between aviation professionals and their customers - questions could be asked and information exchanged. Sadly, it has become a place where a relatively small core decry almost every aspect of the industry. There are some posters who have quite simply demonstrated nothing positive to say about anybody working for an airline. I am genuinely astonished as to why they should wish to return so regularly, or indeed, fly at all.

The internet is crammed with consumer forums where customers can give feedback on their dissatisfaction with any number of industries and service suppliers - read enough of them for long enough, and you begin to sense some common personalities at work, and therefore you begin to question the validity of the comment. It would be nice if this forum could be something different, after all, you have the opportunity here to communicate with those who actually do the job, a facility not available on other bulletin boards. "The Crew member was rude to me, what should I do?" neither educates nor informs and leads with tedious inevitability to the "We pay your wages" posts which achieve so little except to inflame. We can all do better - let's try.