Is the role of NCA fully recognised by the wider RAF?

[dobby38]

Do you know what Non-Commissioned Aircrew do?

[camelspyyder]

Q1. No
Q2. Yes

CS:)

[minigundiplomat]

I don't quite understand.


Which question are you asking, the one in the title or the one below?

Why do you ask?

If it is because you are thinking of joining, I suggest you try some research, even if it is merely googling wikipedia before asking questions that are in the open forum.

If you require spoon feeding to this degree, I think you may be unsuited to the role.

[camelspyyder]

Q1. No
Q2. Yes

A friend who worked at an AFCO was unaware of NCA for 2 years whilst working as a recruiter

When he discovered it he signed himself up straight away

CS:)

[vecvechookattack]

Q. How many NCA work in the RAF?


A. About half of them.

[Shack37]

Q. How many NCA work in the RAF?


A. About half of them.


Ah, the old ones are the best.

Q1 Probably not
Q2 Yes, about a lifetime ago. That's how I know the old ones are the best.:ok:

[Wyler]

With the cuts coming, and the political in-fighting going on, I firmly believe that NCA will soon have their hands on 'throttle and stick' as well as 'down the back'.

[Pontius Navigator]

What's the wider RAF bit? I thought it was a lot less wide than it used to be and is going to be even more less wide in the near future.:}

[barnstormer1968]

NCA must surely be known 'throughout' the RAF, as there are often banter threads about NCA, with the general opinion that NCA are very often 'wider' members of the RAF!:E

[Jayand]

Wyler, not a chance!!!
Besides the NCA are likely to be cut just as harshly as the front enders.

[ShyTorque]

Do you know what Non-Commissioned Aircrew do?

Yes, they eat all the rations. :}

Hence Barnstormer's comment about "wider".... :E

[4Greens]

My jet instructor was an NCA and was brilliant. In a previous existence he shot the odd enemy aircraft down in the Battle of Britain. There should be more of them and they are cheaper.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

From:-

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/336798-hercules-ground-engineering-your-questions-answered.html


What’s it like working with a bunch of power crazed alpha males?

Its not easy, especially when you realise just how many interviews and flying exams these aircrew have to fail before they end up on the Hercules. Add that to the fact that you are the best of the best and it becomes a hard burden to bear. Indeed, you are treated as the 6th member of a 5 man team, and have to know your place, that is, an outsider.


Does, a Flt Sgt Loadmaster outrank me?

Not really. The NCO Aircrew aren’t proper SNCO’s, that’s why they have a sh1te-hawk above their stripes. They spend a large amount of time telling people how much they get paid, which proves the point and their insecurity not to mention guilt. This is when they are most vulnerable and the best time to point out that they are not real SNCO’s. An aircrew Flt Sgt has been promoted once, so is probably equivalent to a Cpl in real life.


But the aircrew seem to think they are very important.

Aircrew are deliberately taught to be confident and assertive, as they don’t have to rise through the ranks, gaining experience, like normal people. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they are right, but it’s usually best to let them think they are.


What does the Flt Engineer do?

This is a good question. His main duty is to ensure that the travel scrabble tiles don’t fall into the throttle quadrant and jam the levers. He will sometimes mis-diagnose faults with the gay abandon of someone who is not going to spend all night fixing it. He considers himself a sort of executive consultant ground engineer, and often tells the Captain, we changed this…we fixed this. Its best not to react to this behaviour, and to let him believe it to be true. In spite of all of this, he is your friend.

[Jayand]

Sir Peter, brilliant and so true.

[minigundiplomat]

We don't have any Flt Eng's (not employed in role anyway) on the Chinook Force. We don't have any narrow minded people like Jayand either.

Everyone is too busy getting on with the job to pursue petty arguments. That's probably why the NCA, like most others on the Chinook Force, are unlikely to face the axe in the coming months.

However, Sir Peter seems to have plenty of time on his hands.

[camelspyyder]

Jay you are so sad and bitter...

At least the groundcrew who wrote SPHL' piece did it tongue in cheek:)

CS

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Who was the slightly rotund Ground Engineer who broke the ladder? Didn't he sue the RAF? I hear that they have had to uprate the ladders to take account of their weight now.

He was a little more than slightly when he did thst, that's for certain although he is now a shadow of his former self :ok:

[im from uranus]

Pedant mode 'ON'

However, Sir Peter seems to have plenty of time on his hands.


minigundiplomat (http://www.pprune.org/members/206521-minigundiplomat)

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hants
Age: 39
Posts: 1,124






SirPeterHardingsLovechild (http://www.pprune.org/members/23169-sirpeterhardingslovechild)

Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 539




Pedant mode 'OFF' :p

[minigundiplomat]

Uranus,

Quality time management and bang for buck mate.

[minigundiplomat]

9 Posts,

2 on the hero's concert and 4 berating posters for contributing to threads with no link to military aviation.




So what is the link between a bull**** alert and military aviation? My previous post may well be bull, you don't know either way what my time management is like, but you sir, do not practice what you preach.

[Shack37]

So what is the link between a bull**** alert and military aviation? My previous post may well be bull, you don't know either way what my time management is like, but you sir, do not practice what you preach.


Yes he does, he's "Really annoyed"

[Jayand]

Camelspyder I am not bitter at all and it would probably surprise you to find out what I do for a job!
Bitter would mean me being upset about something that I had wanted to do but didn't manage, that is not the case, I am just able to recognise certain caricature type traits amongst my comrades that are both funny and at times very true.

[heights good]

MGD

Wind your neck and take it on the chin, they are taking the p*ss. Take it as its meant. Hopefully your period will finish soon :E

Oh and just in case you are wondering I am NCA

HG

p.s. Uranus..... Priceless :D

[camelspyyder]

I hope the NCA student who started this thread made good use of the responses for his course presentation last week.

I believe there is a similar one on e-goat, I haven't checked yet to see if that one turned into the usual bunfight.

CS

[minigundiplomat]

HG,

I'll take that in the spirit I'm sure it was intended. Afterall, having served on 230, you must have spent years on the recieving end:E

[heights good]

MGD

Not really been subjected to much banter, Puma c'men are smarter and better looking than the average Chinook mate and are able to fend it off without having a tantrum :E

Oh and I will save you the typing.... "We can lift more than you" :ok:

HG

*** Disclaimer - Seeing as its still your time of the month, everything is meant tongue in cheek..... Well apart from the better looking bit! ***

[charliegolf]

230 Sqn at Gut. Butlins with a bit less red and a bit more green on the coats! But even they did more than 18 (Ornamental) Sqn. The mantlepiece in that new hangar must have been 'kin huge.:ok:

CG

And yes I know it ain't so now- keep safe, all of you

[minigundiplomat]

But even they did more than 18 (Ornamental) Sqn.


Ah yes, how is the liberation of Kenya coming along? I must say how grateful we are for you guys digging out blind to keep the exercise program running smoothly.

As for the Chinook being able to lift more', that's always been crap banter. Relevant to operations post the 1970's may have been more correct.

HG - you can have your tampons back, I'm done with them.

[Shack37]

HG - you can have your tampons back, I'm done with them.



Just the unused ones please.:E

[c130jbloke]

230 Sqn at Gut. Butlins with a bit less red and a bit more green on the coats!

And it was chuffing great :}

I had a ball on that sqn - it was just a pity that I was too young and stupid ( and usually drunk at the weekends ) to appreciate what I had at the time.

As for the original question:

a. Probably not.

b. Then again, who gives a toss:ok:

[rusty_monkey]

Jokingly in the mess after a few sherberts post battle of britian bash I asked one of our two winged mates if he thought they would consider bringing back SNCO pilots in the SDSR, it works for the army (sort of) was very disappointed by his reply and then a voice pipped up from behind us that he didn't mind pilots and Navs getting flying pay it was just commissioned pay he objected to... Lighting blue touch paper and retreating I couldn't help but laugh.

This has however led me to thinking that there must be many suitable applicants with amazing piloting skills who may not make the grade as officers yet because of this we as a Service lose out. Obviously not being aircrew myself I wonder how those of you that are would view this.
(Strapping on tin hat for the abuse from those who don't read past the first paragraph)

RM.

[minigundiplomat]

Just the unused ones please


All or nothing Shack, all or nothing!

[Pontius Navigator]

must be many suitable applicants with amazing piloting skills who may not make the grade as officers yet because of this we as a Service lose out.

They get round this by recruiting potential officers that they can train to be pilots (it says on the tin).

Mind you, I had an absolutely stinkng question when I was boarded. "Do you think candidate X would make a good officer?"

I was gobsmacked. There was not way I could say "No, no chance at all, his accent is so thick I couldn't understand him at all." I can't remember what I did say but I was pretty speechless.

[sisemen]

there must be many suitable applicants with amazing piloting skills who may not make the grade as officers

They get round this by pushing them through IOT :E

[Henry09]

minigundiplomat

You seem to have bitten very hard on this one. Let it go, reeelaaax!

[Pontius Navigator]

Siseman, dat am true too although the education requirements act as a filter to a commission whereas it would allow potential NCOs through.

[sisemen]

When I was a flt cdr at IOT the instructions were made perfectly clear - push 'em through; the FTSs will sort out the wheat from the chaff. And of course the FTSs went on the theory that if Cranwell saw fit to graduate them then they must be OK.

I can certainly remember an immense amount of pressure to graduate a few individuals that I had put up for the chop.

[Pontius Navigator]

Siesman we suffered from that. We got a very poor specimen in to the Nav School and it was far harder terminating his commission for lack of OQs than it would have been suspending him at Cranditz.

[ExAscoteer]

PN, from your earlier posts I believe I know the person involved. Finningley 1987 perchance?

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...

During my period as a Staff Pilot on Dominies I became increasingly concerned at the low standard of certain students, specifically in OQ’s and extremely poor attitude(s) to training. Some of these students had spent over a year in IOT!

I mentioned this to a colleague who was an IOT Flight Cdr who told me that the instruction coming down from on high was that, if a candidate passed OASC, then they should/would pass IOT.

Of course this just moved the problem downstream.

However it got even worse, as a CSRO I would often help out on ANS and the Airman Aircrew School Basic Survival Ex's as both an Instructor and a member of the DI Staff.

One candidate was appalling and failed the Ex (Attitude Problem) meaning they would have to resit with the baby pilots when they were at Topcliffe.

Around 18 months later I was in the ANS chatting to a Staff Nav who was writing the chop report – I was amazed that it was almost word for word what I had written earlier even though he’d not read my report.

OC ANTS concurred as did OC ANS, the student was, however, reinstated on the direction of the Stn Cdr.

Having been streamed C130 (they were never going to get Nimrod!) that particular student was chopped on the Herc OCU.

What an incredible waste of time, effort and, not least, money, and a sad indictment of the trust placed in our ability as Instructors by the higher echelons!


Edit: Strangely enough I never found the same problem with Airmen Aircrew students - maybe their selection process was more rigouous?

[Pontius Navigator]

Ex-Ascoteer, more than likely.

There was one stude who complained that I had not written him up correctly and simply plagarised one of his earlier reports. My gaster was flabbered.

I checked and sure enough my write-up was word for word what a friend of mine had written two trips before. Now in the sim, as sim drivers we would earwig some of the chatter between studes and instructor, and possibly pick up the good words hence our reports would have some similarity.

Anyway I browsed through the folder and found that my remarks were actually the 3rd time that the same problem had been reported. And the problem? He had dsecended through safety altitude at almost every opportunity.

Because of his complaint, and my going back through his reports he was chopped immediately.

[ExAscoteer]

In my time we would do a similar thing - purposely descend VMC below SA but (for the stude) in simulated IMC to see just what they would do.

Later, of course, on the GP1 lead in we would descend IMC for real on radar - always made me feel a wee bit twitchy!

"Cut Off, 5 Miles!"

Eeeek!

[gb640]

In the ISTAR world they provide work for pilots!