EK how much $$ are you saving while working there?

[fredsmith]

Hi, I am considering EK as an underpaid US regional pilot. I know there are many compromises for the money-which is the point of becoming an expat. I would appreciate any input as far as how difficult the Dubai lifestyle is and more importantly how much people are saving by going there. I would predict to spent 30-40k and save 50-60k. I know it would take discipline but is this realistic? thanks in advance, Fred

[Flyer1015]

Wife? Kids? And if you are on the -200, you're out of luck as of right now, cause they require jet time in greater than 30 tonnes.

[a747jb]

If you are single, with no kids, and are frugal like you say, you still need to switch those numbers around. Dubai is a really expensive city, especially for food and drinks. Don't forget you don't get free travel here except 1 ticket a year to an EK destination (this is known as your annual leave ticket) There are also all sorts of little hidden fees like the tolls on the roads, UAE ID card fees, and pricey costs to transfer money home just to name a few. I would say you will spend $50-60 a year and save $20-30, and thats if you are frugal with your money. If you have kids, well, you are going to stuggle to save. Dubai has a way of taking your money at every turn. You can save a bunch more money here than you ever could at a regional, but not near as much as you might think. Throw in all the other stuff such as fatigue, working like a slave (90 hours here is way way more difficult than 90 hours at a regional with the time changes and general environment here) frustration of daily life, and your general lack of rights here, and I would say you're better to touch it out and wait for the majors to pick up hiring in the next couple years. Just my 2 cents.

[sandblasted]

spot on 747.:ok:

[DMN]

I have 2 friends fo's with Etihad, both married, 2 little kids still not in school. They are able to have a normal life and save 2/3 of their monthly total payment. They are westerners, cook at home mostly, drink like schmucks but buy their booze and drink at home. I guess if you wanna eat, drink, fk.... out of your home every day then reverse the numbers. Some people never have enough.

[ekairbus]

a747jb hit the nail on the head.

I live a simple life and have little to show for my three years here. The 90+ hours per month has taken a huge toll on me and I feel as if I have aged 10 years.

The US majors will start to hire in the near future because of the upcoming retirements. Indeed Continental airlines announced this week that they are recalling all pilots from furlough.


The first of baby boomers (pilots) born after WWII are about to turn 65.

I recommend that you look for opportunities within the US.

At Emirates you will be overworked and underpaid.

[Alconguin Crusader]

Don't forget to put in your list how Emirates will not honor your contract.

[yankee22]

Stay where your at.

This job is not what it used to be and the terms and conditions are continuously eroding. EK has lost it's touch and when your flying 90+ hours a month and your head aches from jet lag, what is an extra $10,000 - $20,000 you might save? Not much for what you have to put up with.

Saving is not really that realistic with the cost of living in Dubai far outreaching any of our annual pay increments. If you chose to live like a troll, eat peanuts and fly like a robot, fill your boots and have at it. Not really what I would call a fun lifestyle.

Dubai has gone downhill and the lifestyle is far from tax free anymore. They tax you at the restaurants, road tolls everywhere you turn it seems like and prices climbing at a weekly rate.

[Raise or Fold]

The first year I did not save much at all. Your start up costs are pretty high. I have one child starting school this year. (I have been budgeting for this since I started to off set the initial cost) The second year I was here I have saved around $30000 USD. We are very good at budgeting our money. I put aside our money to the states like it does not exist.
I am one of the happy guys here. I left a regional and I have not looked back.
We have a very nice lifestyle here and enjoy our time. I actually have more time off now than I did at my previous company. Some months are better than others, but I am just as tired as when I was commuting to four day trips. It really is not that bad.

[CAYNINE]

It really does come down to balance..... if you want a lifestyle that gives you trips away with the family to all those places that we only ever dreamed about and want to eat and drink out at the best (actually it doesn't have to even be that good) dining establishments in town then as an FO you will not have a lot left. If you want to live like a sand hermit you will probably save some cash.

Having said that if you on the other hand want to stick it out till that elusive upgrade happens, things get remarkably better. I have been able to save (after upgrade not before) without too much sacrifice and sometimes when I look at what we actually spend I feel a little guilty at the amount of cash that flows out of my account for more luxury items than I would have ever been able to have back home in the 1st world.

Working 90+ hours every month..... not fun, and yes agree with all above it is not sustainable and God only knows where this sorry mess that the management here have created will end.

You come here and first off you love the place but after a while you start to see the crap that flows under the surface and realise just how unimportant you are in the grand scheme of EK. You are working for an Arab Airline, they don't allow unions for the simple reason they don't want the workers to have a say, so the contract you sign is pointless and empty the minute you place the pen on the bottom line, it only serves them if you by some strange reason you want to request something. i.e. "oh no that's in your contract" when you want to move from the crap villa in the back blocks of Mirdiff.

As you guys say.... my 2 cents worth.

[juzlime]

Wonder if EK gives joining allowance for new joiners. I know EY does. can't remember the amount though. 30k ++ maybe. Sure that helps you settle down with not all but most of the stuffs.

[falconeasydriver]

Been here a bit over 18 months, so far so good.
I have a Wife and a Daughter (who goes to nursury).
In USD terms, we are putting away about 2.5K per month, without too much trouble.
We live a relatively simple existence, but enjoy good food, wine, and catching up with friends.
There are definitely two types of people here, the ones such as ourselves who are sensible, or at the very least have a bit of a plan. Then there are the types who want the newest flashiest items, eat out 5-6 times a week, drive the flashiest cars...designer cloths..cosmetic surgery for wifes etc etc, who then complain about never having any money.
Its not THAT bad here, but wobetide if you ever inject some balance into a discussion here on PPrune :hmm:

[goatherd]

Spot on Falcon.

I started in the days before flight pay when a f/o salary was about 6-7000 dhs less than now excluding flight pay. Bread and milk cost the same back then and I still saved loads of money with wife, kids etc. You have to decide for yourself what you are doing out here and adapt your lifestyle.

If you want to save it is easy, if you want the lifestyle, forget it! I had a flight attendant tell me once that a breakfast buffet with unlimited champers for over 400dhs was great value, go figure! (Some dumbass pilot will marry her and and then bitch about not getting paid enough!!)

[BigGeordie]

You have to have a plan. If you don't make sure you put some money in a savings account every month before you get the chance to spend it you will quickly discover that Dubai will soak up all your spare cash like a camal at an Oasis.

For my first couple of years here we (self, wife, no kids) had a really good lifestyle but didnt' save anything:O. Now we have done all the "fun" stuff, had the nice toys and so on, and are making a concerted effort to send some cash home each month. It is surprising how much you can save if you put some thought and effort into it.

You are also at ther mercy of exchange rates of course. The ERP doesn't really help much.:hmm:

[Laker]

Juzlime,


Both EY and EK give settling in allowances. EY gives you AED 44,000 and EK gives you either a fully furnished apartment or in lieu of furnishings AED 30,000 to buy your own.

[typhoonpilot]

You are also at ther mercy of exchange rates of course. The ERP doesn't really help much.


Good and bad here. The exchange rate for the USD is fixed, but Americans don't get the ERP.

Oh yea, I easily saved $2000/month as an F.O. and that's when starting pay was 16,000 dirhams a month ( wife, no kids and before the massive inflation of the mid 2000s ). Didn't buy the newest Landcruiser and 42 inch plasma TV ( they were 10,000 dits back then ), but watched a lot of people do just that and then complain they weren't able to save money :hmm:


TP

[juzlime]

I guess it's down to us whether to save or to speed off with a shiny new porsch down that dusty road.. A lil bit of money sense will take you places by the end of you tenure there in the sandpit.

[Will Rogers]

Flyer1015: Please get your facts straight before posting... The below is from the EK recruitment website and there is absolutely no mention of 30 tonnes. As a matter of fact that's a number that I have never heard of here...


Requirements: For the position of First Officer (prior to joining):

* A minimum of 4000 hours total flying time (may include 25% P3 or FEO time to a max of 500 hr).
* A minimum of 2000 hours multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft. (P3 time cannot be used for this requirement).
OR
* A minimum of 2500 hours total flying time on a modern commercial multi-engine, multi-crew aircraft jet. (P3 time cannot be used for this requirement)
* Must hold a valid ICAO ATPL
* English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension); ICAO English level (4 or above)
* Experience commensurate with age
* Type rated would be advantageous

As such anyone with JET time (regardless of weight) can apply. Yes, there is a weight requirement for upgrade which should possibly be part of your decision making but as far as getting hired... no weight requirement!

Good luck to anyone applying! :)

Will

[leadingedge12]

Will you are completely wrong about no weight requirement. I went to an info session and they stated in no uncertain terms that if you did not have 2000+ in aircraft over 30 tonnes you won't be eligible. I e-mailed the dir of training and he confirmed this policy. As a 7000 hour pilot with over 3000 hours PIC in aircraft below 30 tonnes I can assure you of this.

That policy may change later but it is still in effect now.

[Will Rogers]

leadingedge12: Thanks for the update. :ok: In that case I stand corrected. It's just not published anywhere public I guess. Much like a lot of other things here...

On the subject of savings I manage to save just over 1000 USD a month with a wife and no kids. And we live a good, "high quality" life.

Will

[RjAgCR]

Very handy info for those of us with wifes thinking of joining EK ... :ok:

[Flyer1015]

hey 747, regarding this:

Well, this is off the thread topic, so I apologies, but anyone considering EK with time less than 30 tonnes had better reconsider. There are many of us stuck on the airbus fleet flying **** rosters with 0 career progression because they magically pulled a 55 tonne weight requirement out of their ass about a year and half ago to transfer to the 380 and for upgrade, and now we are stuck with no where to go. So whether or not RJ time will get you in the door or not, that changes daily. What I can tell you is those in upper management have no respect for you if you flew a "small" jet and will f... you at every turn. On the other hand, things are constantly changing here, so my hopes are up, but my resumes are also going out in 6 months when the 3 year training bond is up if things haven't changed. As for the original thread topic, what you need to take out of all the posts is that how much you save really depends on you, and how you want to live. As I said before, you can save way more than you ever could at a regional in the US, but just bare in mind that Dubai is alot more expensive than most people realize at first glance.

What is the 55 ton rule? Sorry for ignorance, and lack of looking up, but you currently being on the A330, surely is at least 55 tons?

[a747jb]

Not ignorance at all, no worries. The 55 tonne rule at EK is referring to our new and revised fleet transfer and upgrade policy that they pulled out of thin air after the Melbourne tailstrike incident. What it says is that you must have 4000 hours of time in a jet over 55 tonnes for upgrade or 3000 hours of time in a jet over 55 tonnes to transfer to the A380 as an FO. The upgrade requirement, I guess I can understand that, but NOT the 380 transfer as an FO. What it essentially does is mean that anybody who did not fly a 737/A320 or bigger and is stuck until they get 3000 hours on the A330, and that, on this fleet, means a minimum of 4 years of having **** rosters and flying through the middle of the night on turn arounds to the subcontinent and middle east. The worst part is, is they are now forcing guys who don't want to go to the 380 to go, and keeping those of us who do want to go locked onto the fleet we don't want to be on, all because some little idiot that tops our management and has the initials AAR seemingly has a very small p...s and feels the need screw everyone around. Sorry for the last sentence, but this policy really pisses me off because it directly effects our quality of life here as I don't think there is anybody who won't agree with me that the A330 schedules are a nightmare! This was not policy when I got hired. :ugh: Again, this is off topic again, but figured that the question should be answered.

[Mango]

a747jb, I just want to clarify something regarding what you said.

Not ignorance at all, no worries. The 55 tonne rule at EK is referring to our new and revised fleet transfer and upgrade policy that they pulled out of thin air after the Melbourne tailstrike incident. What it says is that you must have 4000 hours of time in a jet over 55 tonnes for upgrade or 3000 hours of time in a jet over 55 tonnes to transfer to the A380 as an FO. The upgrade requirement, I guess I can understand that, but NOT the 380 transfer as an FO. What it essentially does is mean that anybody who did not fly a 737/A320 or bigger and is stuck until they get 3000 hours on the A330, and that, on this fleet, means a minimum of 4 years of having **** rosters and flying through the middle of the night on turn arounds to the subcontinent and middle east. The worst part is, is they are now forcing guys who don't want to go to the 380 to go, and keeping those of us who do want to go locked onto the fleet we don't want to be on, all because some little idiot that tops our management and has the initials AAR seemingly has a very small p...s and feels the need screw everyone around. Sorry for the last sentence, but this policy really pisses me off because it directly effects our quality of life here as I don't think there is anybody who won't agree with me that the A330 schedules are a nightmare! This was not policy when I got hired. Again, this is off topic again, but figured that the question should be answered.

If I join EK as an FO with almost 9000hrs TT and have 1900hrs a330 and 970hrs a320 I could most probably, going from the info I have read in this forum, be on the airbus fleet aka a330 and could possibly be also put on the a380 as I meet, almost, the 3000hrs above 55tons?

[fatbus]

As it is right now no direct 380 FO's , main reason no full 380 course

[Flyer1015]

a747,

Thanks for the info. No worries about language, it sounds well deserved. I'm sorry to hear the new change in hrs for transfer/upgrade.

I'm stil waiting for them to drop the 30 ton rule, and then I'd stand a chance.

[Aussie]

I think if they do Drop the 30T rule, there will be a massive influx of drivers applying from US regionals and also Europe! Depends how desperate they get i guess...

[a747jb]

Mango,

Sorry, I left out the part of 2 years with EK. So the fleet transfer requirements are all of what I wrote once you have been with EK for 2 years. Also, as of right now, Fatbus is correct, no direct entry FO's onto the 380.

[sanddude]

A single F/O spending 50 to 60 K $ a year????? Man I would love tro see a break down of your budget!! Spending 3 night a week in the rattle Snake do we?

Anyway as it stands you will find that even on the 330 guys with more then 3 and a half years in the company are doing decent rosters. Ask any junior Captain how there roster was before the upgrade.

It all boils down to seniority and you just have to do your time man.

[Mango]

a747jb,

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Henry09]

I think you can see there are so many diverse answers that it is simply down to you and the lifestyle you want. If you are happy at home watching TV and cooking nice meal s you are going to be saving a lot more compared to those who are out 5 nights a week. Also it is an environment where it is pointless trying to impress people with your shiny new car because they all have them.

[juzlime]

Is there any case of new f/o didn't get company apartment? How much is the housing allowance for a married f/o w/o kids?

[duck_butter]

I am married and have a wife who is an RN. I'd like to hear from any of you married folks....do any of you have wives with jobs in Dubai? I know my wife would like to find a nursing job out there if this is doable should I get on with EK. Thanks for any input!

[clevlandHD]

Western nurses and teachers are always in high demand. She can get an hospital job (good $ but hard work), a clinic job (ok $ with ok work load) or a school nurse job (little $ with great time off). Her's to choose. really.

[FJCruiser]

Just bear in mind she will be competing with nationalities who are willing to do the job for lesser pay. It depends what sort of position she is looking for, at managerial level, the pay may be a tad better.

[duck_butter]

Great. Thanks for the information guys!

[MumbaiRadio]

Well fred I guess you have read many opinions so far. I'm as well among the happy people here. Family is good, completely debt free, I spend my money wisely and if I spend I do it on travel and education for the kids. I work hard but better this than the street protests I had to do once I lost my job back in 2004 before moving here. So far 65 paychecks always on time and bonuses on top of that (except last year :bored:)... when I came here I was looking for stability and I found it, of course you need to adjust as you would anywhere isn't it..

[coefficientoflift]

Fascinating thread folks,

Great to get an insight into life in the sandpit, and EK in particular. Even if it makes sobering reading for those of looking to crack airlines in the next few years:ok:

On the bright side, I'm sure EK will be looking to snap me up with my 1200hrs+ of C208 time :}

C of L.

[Mango]

Would like to revive this thread,

I was just going through the EK pilot briefing document and would like to clarify some points that dont gel with whats been said here and on the Emirates group careers center web cite.

Firstly, the info that EK has emailed me states that the F/O starting salary is AED22,720 but if you look at the Emirates group web cite it states that the F/O starting salary is AED24,110. Wondering if anybody can clarify.

Secondly, the info I was emailed states that the company will contribute towards the charges of the utilities consumed to the value of AED21,600/annum and pay for the installation of a telephone. Just wondering if any EK pilot can confirm that AED1800/month is enough to cover those house hold bills as that seems verl low in comparison to the equivalent AUD(oz dollar) value.

Lastely, in relation to the unfurnished company accomodation the employee will recieve a once only furnishing allowance of AED30,000. Just wondering if that can be used towards the cost of relocating some of your house hold goods from your country of abode?

Thanks

[DMN]

In my briefing it is 24110 basic...

[MuddyBoots]

Hi Guys

The basic pay is currently AED 24,110.

You are given a cheque for the furniture allowance. There is nothing preventing you from using the allowance to ship your own stuff over.

Been here about 9 months, and managing to save a wee bit, even with kids and their expenses. That said I drink beer and wine at home, and usually cook my own meals. If you eat and drink out lots, well, you won't save much.

Muddy, now SandyBoots.

Cheers:cool:

[donpizmeov]

The amount paid for dewa (dubai electricity and water authority) may or may not cover the costs depending on where you live. If at DSO with a large backyard it wont cut it. If in a place with small/no backyard its fine. From HR, average throughout EK accom was AED19700 per year, average throughout DSO was Aed35000 (these figures were at time of EK breaking the contract wrt dewa charges). The reason being that most EK accom has no garden, is in a highrise apartment or if it did have a garden the water for it was covered under the lease. Remember of course before the company made $US1billion profit last year all dewa was covered in your contract.
The FO basic is Aed24100. And it is the reason we all received a 6% pay rise this year, but no increment rise. The FO basic rate was raised to match that of EY, it amounted to a 6% increase, so thats what we all got. The increment rise was stopped to make sure we didn't get a 9% increase. So if you can join by the end of Mar 2011 you will be on the same pay as someone who joined the beginning of April 2008. :ugh:


Keep discovering

The Don

[trubru]

Cool thread gents!

Anyone here with wife and two kids in school on F/O salary? Would be very interesting to have some input with regards to the costs of a 15yr old and a 7yr old. Is the schooling allowance enough and if not how much do you have to pay in?:ok:

[Merlins Magic]

Hi Guys

Very useful thread. Considering my options and uncertain on the work/life balance. Can someone post or PM me an FO roster. Also, does the flight allowance based on duty or stick time and what are the staff travel T&Cs.

Many Thanks