View Full Version : EE Lightning Question
Sky Sports
7th Sep 2010, 19:33
At its peak, how many U.K. squadrons and airfields operated the Lightning?
CharlieJuliet
7th Sep 2010, 20:47
Wattisham with 111 (F3) and 56 (F3) till 56 (?F6) went to Cyprus (Akrotiri) then had 29.
Coltishall had the initial Mk 1 Sqns (74 and 56) then 226 OCU.
Binbrook started with 5 (F6) and ended with 5 and 11 (F6).
Leconfield had 19 and 92 (both initially F2 then F2A) till they went to (I think) Geilenkirchen and then to Gutersloh.
Leuchars had 74 (F3 then F6) till it went to Tengah then 11 (F6) and 23 (initially F3 then F6)
Also there was AFDS (Air Fighter Development Squadron) and FCTU (Fighter Command Trials Unit) which in my time were at Binbrook.
Binbrook, Wattisham and Leuchars all had TFFs (Target Facility Squadrons) usually with F1/F1A but I think Binbrook TFF also had F3s.
Binbrook also had the LTF (Lightning Training Flight) for a time to convert pilots to the Lightning.
I think this list is fairly comprehensive, but I'm sure that others will prove me wrong
scarecrow450
7th Sep 2010, 20:48
Found this link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning
GeeRam
7th Sep 2010, 21:21
I'd say, 1st half of 1965 was the peak for UK based squadrons.
19 & 92 at Leconfield (19 moved to Germany in Sept 65 & 92 moved to Germany in Dec 65)
23 & 74 at Leuchars
56 & 111 at Wattisham
226 OCU at Coltishall
AFDS/FCTU at Binbrook
Peter Carter
7th Sep 2010, 21:35
How about 2(T) and 65 Sqns at Colt in '71?
Both part of 226 OCU; I think 65 was declared to SACEUR.
alisoncc
7th Sep 2010, 22:19
GeeRam wrote:
19 & 92 at Leconfield (19 moved to Germany in Sept 65 & 92 moved to Germany in Dec 65)
By early '67, my arrival, Leconfield was the home of 60 MU, the main Lightning maintenance facility.
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 08:24
How about 2(T) and 65 Sqns at Colt in '71?
Both part of 226 OCU; I think 65 was declared to SACEUR.
Coltishall training wing was indeed bigger then, some almost 40 a/c providing RAF, as well as RSAF/KuwaitAF training....but, at that time there was still one frontline sqn less than in 1965.
The Lightning force peaked in terms of numbers of a/c in-service in the years 68,69 and 70 with some 150 a/c, and 9 frontline sqns., (the five in the UK and four overseas with 19 & 92 in RAFG, 56 in Cyprus and 74 in Singapore) plus OCU at Coltishall.
The Lightning force decline started in 1971 when 74 disbanded following our withdrawl from the Far East.
1.3VStall
8th Sep 2010, 09:54
GeeRam,
It wasn't just the Lightning force that started to decline in 1971 it was the whole of the Royal Air Force. I entered IOT that year and all I knew in my 27+ years in the Service was constant cutbacks, retrenchments, reductions and civilianisation.
Imagine 9 AD squadrons! Are there 9 fast-jet squadrons left in total?
I'm glad I left when I did.
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 10:04
Imagine 9 AD squadrons!
We actually had 10, as in 1969, 43 had exhanged it's Hunter's and moved to Leuchars to become the first RAF sqn to operate the F-4 in the AD role.
Brian 48nav
8th Sep 2010, 10:31
The definitive book on RAF squadrons and their aircraft is 'RAF Squadrons' by Wg Cdr C G Jefford - an ex-nav so it has to be right!
He states:-
F1/1A used by 5,56,74,111
F2/2A " 19, 92
F3 " 5,11,23,29,56,74,111
F6 " 5,11,23,56,74,111
Well, Brian - "an ex-nav so it has to be right" - I hate to challenge a Wg Cdr (:)) but I cannot recall the Wattisham flying clubs getting Mk6's before conversion to the F4. Did I miss it? I did a short detachment at Watt in autumn '74 for an exercise and I'm pretty sure they were all MK3's.
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 10:48
an ex-nav so it has to be right!
Ooops :E
5 never operated the F1/F1A ;)
And 111 only used 3 x F.6's as a very short term stop gap in the few months prior to disbandment..... although, technically it's right they were on strength.
74 were the only F1 user, and 56 and 111 were the only F1A users.
That's of course in terms of frontline use, not the various TFF and other 2nd line uses.
Ta GeeRam - I stand corrected and apologies to the good Wg Cdr (and Brian, of course):O.
Wrong again BOAC!!
On Tremblers we had at least 2 Mk 6's for the last 6 months of Lightning operations! How do I know? Well XR752 had my name on it!:D
Right again, Newt, but GeeRam beat you to it:)
Brian 48nav
8th Sep 2010, 12:16
Blimey as an ex-Herc nav I knew I should have kept out of this one,but 'in for a penny etc'.
Jefford shows 5 with Javelins moving from Geilenkirchen to Binbrook on 7 Oct 65 and re-equipping with Lightning F6s Dec 65 until disbanding 31 Dec 87 - but he mentions F1A Jun70 until Sep 72 and F3 Oct 72 until DB.Anyone got them in
their logbooks?
My copy is the 1st edition dated 1988, I know he did a 2nd edition much more recently.
I remember once I was on a Herc near Penang with some sort of film crew on the ramp photographing a Victor tanking 2 Lightnings as they flew past us with a nice backdrop of the island - it all went wrong when I hadn't noticed my watch had stopped! Oh the shame!
Sure they weren't RAAF 1-11's out of Butterworth!
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 12:34
Jefford shows 5 with Javelins moving from Geilenkirchen to Binbrook on 7 Oct 65 and re-equipping with Lightning F6s Dec 65 until disbanding 31 Dec 87 - but he mentions F1A Jun70 until Sep 72 and F3 Oct 72 until DB
From memory.......... can't check for sure at the moment..... IIRC they were on the books of 5 for use in non-op roles prior to the establishment of the seperate Binbrook TFF...... which is why I said at the end of my post, frontline use not TFF - etc.
23 had a Mk1 for target us (flown by John Spoor and Rick Lea). Brain cells fading now but I think the F3 arrived when the Mk6 fatigue life issue cropped up.
beerdrinker
8th Sep 2010, 16:39
Newt,
Was that the one you got airborne in with the canopy unlocked, thinking of the lovely Liz?
BD
Brian 48nav
8th Sep 2010, 16:41
Afraid I'm older than that! I did a Herc Thai trainer in Feb69 and on the Bangkok-Chiang Mai leg we flew over Takhli USAF base and could clearly see their first 6 F111s deployed in the Vietnam War.Please don't someone tell me I got that wrong too!(only joking).
Amazing really there were our dear allies busting their arses fighting a war (best thing a Labour government ever did was not getting me involved!) and good old FEAF was tasking it's transport aircraft to do 'rollers' at U Tapao,Ubon and the like.
Talking of 'rollers' one day in our Herc we burst a tyre on the runway at Tengah and stopped halfway down - about 20 fast jets had to divert to Changi,many of them sucking air only! For some strange reason Hercs weren't allowed there for training after that!
Anybody remember my mate John Parker who I think was a SEngO at Binbrook in 87 - he and the lovely Mrs P kept us sane when I was in Air Traffic at Stornoway!
What was TFF by the way?
minigundiplomat
8th Sep 2010, 17:25
19 & 92 at Leconfield - Now Army
23 & 74 at Leuchars - Under Threat
56 & 111 at Wattisham - Now Army
226 OCU at Coltishall - Closed
AFDS/FCTU at Binbrook - Closed
Wonder what's left of the family silver?
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 19:57
23 had a Mk1 for target us (flown by John Spoor and Rick Lea). Brain cells fading now but I think the F3 arrived when the Mk6 fatigue life issue cropped up
All 3 of the UK F.6 equipped sqns had at least one F.1A on sqn for 2nd line duties/target work taken from the base TFF's during this 70-72 period. They were also on occasion used for solo aero's displays as well, but these were replaced by F.3's from 1972 on, most likely, from the batch of F.3's given up by 56 in 1971, when 74 was disbanded and flew their F.6's from Singapore to Cyprus and handed them over to 56.
What was TFF by the way? - 'Target Facilities Flight' I believe. F MK1's with no radar - replaced with radar reflector so we poor folk could have at least a chance at a S7E:)
GeeRam
8th Sep 2010, 22:03
Would this be you then :ok:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/GeeRam/Aviation/File0033.jpg
neilf92
9th Sep 2010, 10:24
Leuchars TFF circa 1966 /67
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/NeilF92/atff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/NeilF92/AJAP139print-1.jpg
One of the most beautiful aircraft ever built.
GeeRam
Was that Luqa?
Brian48Nav
You were but a lad back then - my old man used to pass Da Nang in those days, keeping an eye out for B.52's
GeeRam
9th Sep 2010, 12:18
GeeRam
Was that Luqa?
Apprently, an APC there..... but, will have to pass over to newt for any specifics for obvious reasons :)
Then there was the Binbrook Airfix Special......:8
Malta Adex July 1974 is the answer to that! A good time was had by all!:ok: