Harrier engine change on the beach in Belize

[speedbird618]

Does anyone remember a harrier needing an engine change on the beach of a caye off Belize. I think it was from Flt 1417. It would of been in the late seventies. I can't find anything about it online. I think the pilot stopped on the beach, then got sand in the engine trying to start the engine, they flew out a crane, built a pad and changed the engine on the beach. It was just a small caye, but there were tourists watching. I thought it would be fun to see some photos?

[noprobs]

The aircraft landed on the island's runway, which was made of rolled coral. Ingestion of some of the loose surface jammed the nozzle mechanism. The debris was cleaned out, and the aircraft flown back to Airport Camp (Belize International).

[BOAC]

Does not ring any bells with me, I was there 80 and 81. Landing on a beach sounds like a plan to get to the mess Caye barbi early? I would have expected the 'story' to be legend if it happened.

EDIT: Yes - that one does!

[noprobs]

The area seems to have gone a bit more upmarket since then. See
Caye Chapel Private Island Estates - Private Island Community, Private Island, Caribbean Property for sale, belize golf, caribbean vacation home, golf course property for sale, Belize Island Properties, beach front property, caribbean beach front pro (http://www.cayechapel.com/home.php) for pictures including the runway.

[BOAC]

Years back now, but was that JF's hideaway?

[Chesty Morgan]

I remember a story that my old man told me a few years ago, can't remember any specifics though except that he would have been there in the late 70's early 80's I think(!) - BOAC you may know better than me actually.

Apparently a Harrier had got bogged down in the beach/runway and the pilot, against the SOPs(?) then selected the nozzles down and tried to lift out of the muck. This, as you can imagine, filled the engine up with lots of beach/runway non-lubricating stuff.

Might have something to do with. Sorry for sticking me nose in.

[ShyTorque]

Chesty,

A certain Harrier pilot once melted a big figure of eight into the western end of the Airport Camp / Belize International runway during engine runs, closing it for almost 24 hours as the hole was burned right down to the base limestone (I flew over it and landed beyond shortly after). :D

Quite funny because it was a tuesday, which was personnel changeover day and the VC10, already en route, had to turn back to Dulles. Even funnier because I wasn't due to go home but my mate was and he really wouldn't believe me that he was staying on for a while. :E

Was that the episode you're thinking of?

[Chesty Morgan]

Shy, that doesn't ring any bells I'm afraid.

Although it has been awhile since I've heard a good war/drinking story from my Dad I think it definitely involved the engine eating a lot of dust. I think he said it was the same pilot (he swears it wasn't him btw!) who became temporarily unaware of his position and wound up the Guatemalans a bit by "nearly" crossing the border if that's any kind of clue.

If the photos of the "dingy drill" I've seen are anything to go by an extra day or two in Belize doesn't seem that bad!

[Freddie838]

I was present on the 230 Sqn Det in 1981 when most of the aircrew and groundcrew had flown to a deserted caye for the Det BBQ. After said BBQ, one engine failed to start and all the groundcrew had to get off so that the puma and operating crew could transit back to (the delightfully named) airport camp on one engine, pick up a replacement aircraft, return to the caye and pick up groundcrew. I can't speak for the others but I was really glad :D :D to see the aircraft returning.

Fred

P.S. Brought to mind fond memories of 230, Gutersloh and Belize.

[John Farley]

BOAC

If only ...................

JF

[ShyTorque]

Freddie,

I was duty pilot on that day. The AOC and the Air Commander were also stranded on the Caye. The AOC wasn't slow in authorising a single engined transit.

"Oh yes, we'll organise some landing lights for your return" said the Det Cdr.

He forgot and went to the bar. We had to use the bar lights to find the Caye and let down onto the airstrip. :p

[Airborne Aircrew]

He forgot and went to the bar.

I'd be willing to bet that the two actions were in reverse order... :ok:

[BOAC]

BOAC

If only ...................

JF - different 'JF', JF:)

[noprobs]

JFin now has a hotel in Stamford. In Belize, he was mainland based.

[BOAC]

Yes, I know the hotel, but there was a 'place'.

[happyhooker]

I was a controller at Butcher Radar when the incident that Speedbird is talking about happened – I was there from Jul/Aug 78 to Feb 79.

As I remember, the RAF was doing a promotional film and shooting bits and pieces around Belize (Join the RAF and see the world – that sort of stuff). Someone had the bright idea of filming a Harrier landing on a ‘desert island’ – great recruitment stuff - and one of the Cayes was chosen (St Georges or maybe Ambergris come to mind – both had landing strips then, though I don’t think that there is one on St Georges now). The whole episode was to be filmed by a camera crew on board an accompanying Puma.

Again, as I recall, things weren’t really planned and it was a ‘back of a fag pack’ scenario – for example, no one had properly recce’d the landing strip to see if it was suitable (I think the accompanying Puma did a landing and someone assessed it from that as OK). Anyway, it was decided to go ahead with the promotional shooting and the Harrier duly did the approach and hover – to disappear into a sandstorm and subsequent crater that was nearly akin to the Icelandic volcano (Some of us managed to get to see the film – bloody, bloody funny, particularly as no-one was hurt). Obviously, the aircraft was stranded and all hell broke loose.

Ground crew were ferried to the island (had a great time with some American tourists by all accounts!) to sort it out. Major exercise as I recall which nearly resulted in the aircraft being scrapped. The whole recovery and repair took about a week. In the end, numerous rectification was carried out (including an engine change), the landing strip was matted to allow the aircraft to depart and a stripped down and very light Harrier was flown (by same pilot) wheels down, on a hop back to APC. It was subsequently replaced and shipped back to the UK for major remedial work (I think).

There were a couple of postscripts. The whole saga cost a lot of money. Not least because there was a US businessman stranded on the island for some days (couldn’t get airborne in his Twin-Beech 18) – as a result, he couldn’t get back to the States during an unexpected financial crisis in his business and he lost a fortune as a result – at which he duly sued the MOD!

In addition, the incident was just one of a number of varying degrees of ‘pigs’ that the RAF suffered over a short period of time. Three others that I can remember were a Harrier wheels up (Wg Cdr RAF Commander at APC); Puma (adorned in ‘Merry Xmas) landing on wrong side of Belize/Guat border and starting to unload Gurkhas – that caused a bit of a stir; and Bomb dropped from Harrier in trial not exploding and disappearing into jungle – that also caused a stir. There were some other incidents – not least the amazing story of the Pumas when they were evacuated to Mexico when ahead of the arrival of Hurricane Greta – but that is a story in its own right! And I won't relate my my 'pigs' with a Scout on a GCA that ended up with him being half-way back to blighty before I remembered about him (OK, slight exaggeration)

We RAF seemed to collect the 'Prick of the Week' award every bloody Happy Hour (any ex-Belize guys remember that carving - talk about feeling inadequate)

[bonajet]

I think this was in either 1978 or 79 - I'm away from my logbooks so can't fix it accurately.

RAFG had sent out a PR team to shoot a film in Belize and the detachment commander KM decided to have a bit of the film shot over Caye Chapel's runway. This was a powdered coral strip with a hardened surface. A Puma was positioned off to one side for the film crew. KM came to a hover over the runway but rather low and the jet efflux ate through the surface and released the powdered coral, which was promptly hoovered up and jammed the reaction controls. A ' forced RVL' took place. Now there was a jet stuck on a coral atoll, stuffed with talcum powder, miles from help. OC ENG from Gutersloh was sent out with a very, very large local purchase order to try and solve the problem. A barge and crane was rented and the engine eventually lifted and changed plus the tubes blown out. Time was of an essence as the salt in the coral powder was not appreciated by the internals of the jet. A couple of weeks later, PH, one of the wing unit test pilots, flew the aircraft out.

The film crew had also filmed some of the spirited flying back at Belize airport, which caused some other problems back in RAFG.

The detachment commander had a difficult time in Belize, as he'd been leading a pair on FAC that misidentified a village on the Guatemalan border and orbited one inside enemy territory by mistake. The section of troops there panicked and deserted leading to an eventual diplomatic complaint.

An interesting detachment.

[BEagle]

bonajet, wasn't the film crew over to make an SSVC flight safety film? I seem to remember having seen it, complete with Loader getting some walking-on part. After a bird strike and surge, some mate nearly stoofs in because he's forgotten his rocket pin, but then the engine recovers itself or something?

A V-force chum had been asked to go and play the 'Ops Officer' and generally baby-sit the film luvvies. Amongst whom was rather a camp producer; this wasn't awfully popular in the RAF of some 20 years before Pink Wednesday....

One scene called for some Rocks to patrol a river, festooned with guns and bullets and all manner of warry stuff. It seems that the producer did actually have quite a dry sense of humour; after the Rocks had done a few takes getting progressively wetter and wetter, not to mention more and more pissed-off, he squealed "Oooh, that was ever so lovely, dears. But could you try to make it just a teensy bit more butch next time?"

[hum]

Pic from Mike Shaw's 1 Sqn book...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/gerryhum/Belizepic.jpg

[larssnowpharter]

– not least the amazing story of the Pumas when they were evacuated to Mexico when ahead of the arrival of Hurricane Greta – but that is a story in its own right!

Hurricane Greta could throw up quite a few stories: The Puma fuel payment problem in Mexico, rumours of the Harrier overflight of Cuba on its way to Key West, additional wives being found when evacuating families from Belize City, Padre and wives getting legless in their shelter, the crew of the first VC 10 in after Greta getting a bit annoyed that there was no HOTAC available.

Notice that Henry de Courcier (ex Reds) is credited with the pic. Was on a flight from Manila to HK about 8 or 9 years ago with him at the controls.

[bonajet]

I do vaguely remember that film BEagle but I think it was a different one. It was partially based on PT's ejection in Germany where the jet flew away after he'd left it. The funny thing about that was PT's story of trying to phone into Ops afterwards but being told to stop bothering them and get off the line as they had an unmanned Harrier flying around....
I'm fairly certain that it was an RAFG film but I'm sure someone with a better memory than mine will chip in.
HUM: Did Mike Shaw publish a revised edition of Twice Vertical (better known as the story of Mike Shaw's love life)? The copy I've got ends pre-Belize.

[Red Line Entry]

I think Beages is right (wow, it feels strange to type that!). I remember the film from donkeys back.

The main gist was about owning up to mistakes to inform the others (pre CHIRP days). It was set in Belize, the engine winds down (post surge?) and won't restart so bona mate goes for the handle and pulls several times to no effect. Then he sees the pin still in the seat pan handle. Meanwhile the jet is getting very close to the jungle canopy before the Pegasus decides it's prepared to play again and off he flies to safety. The next 10 mins of film is about him wrestling with his conscience (suspension of disbelief here - Harrier mate with a conscience) as to whether to tell the rest of the sqn about it. In the end he tells the Boss and everyone lives happily ever after.

Not quite in the Dr Fod league of FS productions!

[OX-27]

I'm pretty sure it was a Flight Safety film 'Distractions' with Richard O'Sullivan as the Harrier pilot. Was a long time ago.

[hum]

Hi BJ...

PT's story online here:

Ejection from a Harrier (http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/ejection_from_a_harrier.htm)

Mike Shaw's book 'Twice Vertical' was first published 1971; a revised version called 'No 1 Squadron' was published in 1986 - included some Belize and Op Corporate stuff..

ISBN 0 7110 1581 3

Anyone on here going to the 1 Sqn 'do' in the RAF club tomorrow?

[gayford]

This thread really brings back fond memories. I was at Butcher Radar 1977-1978 and was responsible for presenting the "Prick of the Week" to the Officers' Mess. It was intended to encourage the resident regiment to join in Happy Hour, which we had recently introduced to what was then very staid and traditional Army style establishment. The "Prick" was exactly as expected, carved from the local ebony-like hard wood. It lived on a shelf behind the bar, modestly shielded with an RAF Officer's SD Cap hanging on it!!
Despite rumours to the contrary I did not pose for the object (I wish!!!).
Regarding the use of Caye Chapel by the Harriers, who had only recently arrived, as I remember it they had identified the short light aircraft strip there as an emergency diversion in the event that Belize International (APC) and Belize City were unuseable. I seem to recollect that the odd flypast was made which pleased the diving hotel residents. It was a great place to spend a weekend by the way.
Great memories but so long ago......

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)

– not least the amazing story of the Pumas when they were evacuated to Mexico when ahead of the arrival of Hurricane Greta – but that is a story in its own right!

Is that the one where the Pumas were flying without doors and back hatch through the edge of the hurricane ? If so I was there. I stayed behind in Cuidad del carmen(sp) to await a replacement main blade.

(I did 12 detachments to Belize during the period 1977-1981).



Aaron O'Dickydido.

[bonajet]

You and BEagle are quite right about that film RLE and OX-27. It's just that I think the filming for KM's sojourn on the coral island was taken for a different production that was commissioned by RAFG.

Thanks for that Hum - I've got the earlier one, hence the surprise at seeing that engine change photo.

Isn't the year after next the 100th? Might be worth coming back to the UK for!

Anyone remember the day of Bernie's ejection when the post incident party in the mess was interrupted by TinyWiny airways crashing their Sioux on the edge of the airfield 'cos they'd run out of fuel and the doctor crashing on the drive to the crash site?

[noprobs]

The liaison with other units out there always added to the fun.

My only hats-on telling-off for being a passenger came from the air commander after I sat up front of a Puma flying over miles of jungle to resupply Cadenas, I think, in the far south-west. Even as a passenger, I had to remark "Stan, I didn't know that there was a road down here", followed by "There are army trucks on that road" and "They're not our army's trucks!" So back we went into Belize, and when we eventually got back to APC, I was summoned from the bar to be told in no uncertain terms that I should have spoken out earlier. But jungle is jungle, as we often had to remind FACs who used trees as reference points.

One day, coasting out in a Puma, pilot checked in with Butcher. Controller: "Not yet identified, what is your altitude? Pilot: "On the QFE, minus 50ft." Unusually sharp controller: "Roger, switching to ASDIC."

Then again, there was the Butcher controller who managed to find a young lady who agreed to go with him on a trip down-country. He told me that he expected to be on a certain beach at a certain time, so if I was around, could I fly over there. Well I was, and I did, from the sea and not very high. When he returned a couple of days later, he said that the timing was such that as I flew over at the moment critique , the earth literally moved for them, and he was indebted to me to the tune of 1 orgasm. I never claimed repayment.

:ok:

[BEagle]

A controller? Some young ladies have absolutely no standards...:rolleyes:

[noprobs]

I think that he did later re-train as a pilot, but this incident was at a time when every female in Belize who ever talked to a man from APC firmly believed that he was a Harrier pilot, because of course he told her so, and he wouldn't lie.

Henry's picture of the engine change reminds me that he almost caused the first such job out there. Doing his usual leap out of the cockpit up onto the intake as the engine wound down, intending to slide down the wing to the ground, he let his camera fall out of his knee pocket, straight through an auxiliary intake door. It then hit the bottom of the intake, broke into its constituent parts, and proceeded through the still-rotating Pegasus. Fortunately, the engineers found all the bits, and were duly paid for their labours, by Henry, in bottles of Belikin, plus some Appletons rum.

I think that the first crane we tried for an engine lift had to be backed up some hastily-constructed ramps to get the requisite elevation, so a bigger one had to be found.

[speedbird618]

Thank you happy hooker and banajet for comfirming this event, I was beginning to think that I dreamt it. I do remember the harrier dropping a bomb that it not go off, I believe the SAS chaps found it and blew it up.

[shavian]

I say, steady on BJ. The "history of my love life" jibe was one of Wartpig's more pathetic attempts at humour. He repeated it many years later in his best man speech at my wedding, BTW!

In answer to your question, the second book (No 1 Squadron) was published by Ian Allen in about 1985 and contains details of the Falklands and the two expeditions to Belize. I went with them on the second push in 1977 as Ops 1 from 38Gp (my one and only ground job before being rescued by Porky Munro and whisked off to Thumrait as OC6).

Both books are long since out of print, but you can occasionally come across one of the rare unsigned copies on e-bay.

Sorry I couldn't make it to the 1 sqn bash at the weekend. Anyone got any news of how it went?

Cheers

MS

[bonajet]

Ah Wartpig........My copy of the revised edition is jetting its way to me, thanks Mike. It'll be interesting to look at the additions - I can't for the life of me remember that engine change photo, but maybe it came from the cold nozzle camera! I'd forgotten about that too, noprobs. Saved by the groundcrew, yet again.

[hum]

I (F) Reunion went well, about 40 turned up I'd say including Al Pollock... I keep meaning to get a photo with him by tower bridge at one of these 'do's' ...however, too much spitfire in the running horse :E ...

Nice to see some groundcrew, including one bloke who was with the Sqn in the Battle of France.

Nice also to meet some of the current members, just back from 'Stan including the Sqn QWI who could easily be mistaken for one of the Sqn wives ;-)

Had to chuckle at discovering they are all moving back to Wittering soon..

Was talk of setting up a 1 Sqn 'Facebook' page for all ex members. Also new life membership of the association for one-off payment of £10.

1(Fighter) Squadron Association Frames Page (http://no1fightersquadronrafassn.org/)