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endplay
5th Sep 2010, 08:51
I see the memoirs of General Dannatt are out and he predictably slags Blair and Brown. I don't question the accuracy of his opinions (all recollections are inevitably biased) but I would have given them, and him, a deal more credibility had he "exposed" them and resigned at the time. No doubt we will have Jock Stirrups hardback out soon.

Old-Duffer
5th Sep 2010, 09:08
I attended a lecture 18 months ago by a very senior retired officer, who had been involved in a well known bust up with the political masters.

He was asked the question as to why he had not resigned and then kicked up a stink.

He replied along the lines that a military chief, resigning over any issue is no more than a 'one day wonder' and the political calculation is that the next man in will carry the political line and there will be little or no lasting damage. He cited several examples of this, all of which showed his view to be true.

His view was that you continue to fight your corner from within and that it is more difficult for a Government to sack a defence chief than for a prime minister to sack one of his own front bench or shuffle him/her further down the pack.

Sir Richard was right to remain and be a difficult cuss from within, I just wish the other chiefs had been a bit more supportive in public.

O-D

Army Mover
5th Sep 2010, 09:20
Had Dannatt (or any other chief) left, there was (and still is) another snout waiting to get their just rewards. It's a fact that individual officers of whatever colour uniform know full well that they can do absolutely nothing with regards to our politicians; look at the fuss that eminates from a single MP asking a question.

Of course, there is always the ultimate solution? :E

CARVE111
5th Sep 2010, 09:37
I think they have always expected the ultimate solution so have axed us in a series of defence cuts over the years and kept us fighting various wars,thereby ensuring we never have a full commitment on home turf to pull it off!!:ugh:

whowhenwhy
5th Sep 2010, 18:18
Found it interesting that Dannat felt he had to ambush Blair at Horse Guards to get his opinion heard. What was Jock doing? Obviously not passing on the message from the Chiefs....

Two's in
5th Sep 2010, 18:51
Call me an old badger, but the words in the Commissioning Oath are the clue that however senior the leaders, there are some obvious limits to what you can decide to like or dislike.

...and you to observe and follow such Orders and Directions as from time to time you shall receive from Us, or any superior Officer, according to the Rules and Discipline of War, in pursuance of the Trust hereby reposed in you.

Admittedly "the Rules and Discipline of War" caveat is may allow some discretion, but "the Trust hereby reposed in you" nicely counters that.

Trim Stab
5th Sep 2010, 20:06
It's a fact that individual officers of whatever colour uniform know full well that they can do absolutely nothing with regards to our politicians;


And isn't that a good thing?

Or would you rather we ranked alongside the likes of Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia etc in democracy rankings?

Jabba_TG12
6th Sep 2010, 07:32
"Or would you rather we ranked alongside the likes of Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia etc in democracy rankings"


You mean we dont already, TS??? :E:E

Army Mover
6th Sep 2010, 07:54
And isn't that a good thing?

Or would you rather we ranked alongside the likes of Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia etc in democracy rankings?
I guess it depends whether you think that they should have fell on their swords when the politicians made political decisions that happened to conflict with the said senior officer's view (or vice-versa).

Personally, I expect nothing else from either politicians or senior officer; they used to disgust me, now I realise that my disgust will have absolutely no affect on the outcome, so I concentrate my efforts on those matters I can influence.

minigundiplomat
6th Sep 2010, 22:10
Personally, I expect nothing else from either politicians or senior officer; they used to disgust me, now I realise that my disgust will have absolutely no affect on the outcome, so I concentrate my efforts on those matters I can influence.

Good man. Still bloody irritating at times.

NutLoose
7th Sep 2010, 00:24
superior Officer

I have always despised that term...... Senior officer yes, but superior, never........ though some would like to think they were as in all walks of life.

Old-Duffer
7th Sep 2010, 14:31
Nutloose,

A quick dive into the OED will help with the formal meanings of "superior" and "senior" and may set your mind a little more at ease!!!

Also, the wording was developed in a different age and is carried forward by custom and practice.

Keep calm and carry on

O-D