Has anyone worked on Vickers Valients?

[PFR]

Mean to have made this post sometime ago:hmm:...and as I seem to be making a historic number of posts this Bank holiday wk-end:confused:..so here goes..
My Father's cousin was Hugh Peebles and he flew PR Spits in WW2 and as far as I can assert became a Squadron Leader and flew Valiant's - allegedly abandoning one over Borneo.
Does his name ring any bells to the "old guard" and Valiant community alike..
I'm aware he past away but would love to trace more details of him anyway.
Many thanks, PFR.

[Fareastdriver]

and flew Valiant's - allegedly abandoning one over Borneo.


That's a new one.

Sorry, I didn't know your father's cousin but that Borneo thing didn't happen.

[PFR]

Thanks for the reply fareastdriver....I did say allegedly...
I've been unable to trace any Valiant losses that come near, (Eric B Morgan's book, Vickers Valiant The First of the V-Bombers) being my best source, although abandoning one due wing root fires was unfortunately not isolated - so the place maybe wrong but the circumstances accurate - I will wait for further enlightment, thanks again PFR.

[PFR]

Thanks to those that have taken an interest in the thread. Being aware the possibility that the family history of Hugh may have become a little "embroidered" with time - anyone be able to point me in the direction of a complete history of Valiant losses, accidents/incidents - or do I really have it with Eric Morgan's book. Additionally if someone might be able to direct me how to find his war service history that'd be helpful, especially considering he was flying PR Spits and apparently crash landed one in a Spanish orchard!...He also wrote-off a Miles Magister in training "allegedly", although I'm not sure if that was while being instructed or as an instructor...a prop tip that was given to me by my Grandmother apparently come from the a/c.
.....any guidance/help would be gratefully received.
Many thanks PFR:).

[QuePee]

Check your PMs.

QP

[Gingie]

I'm interested to know about Vickers Valeints, and in particular the fuel tanks for the aircraft.

I'm interested to know whether a chap in the pub was correct by saying "the tanks had a ceramic plate that rotated within and also the fuel was heated via an element"

What were the tanks made of, aluminium I assume?

Any help would be useful, I don't particularly like the chap and would like to put the matter to rest.

Thanks in advance

[Toddington Ted]

I think you will find that it was called the Vickers Valiant. One is preserved at the RAF Museum at Cosford, who may be able to help.

[Xam]

Hi

Yes Valiant Fuel tanks brings back memories - Basically they are thin rubber bags with rubber studs moulded to the outside, and for support the studs simply pressed into corresponding holes in the supporting metal structure
Fuel pumps were mounted in the tanks with the associated pipe work and all carefully electrically bonded. Access to the fuselage tanks was by "dusbin lids" in the bomb bay.
I can't remember electric heaters but if there were, they would have been with the flowmeters located either side of the bomb bay. Anyway the engines had fuel cooled oil coolers to heat the fuel and cool the oil

Many was the time on QRA that the Americans called us out to stop fuel from dripping on to their nuclear weapons, and my backside has been supported many times by these same nuclear weapons as I struggled for access to the dustbin lid nuts.
I dont think it has done me any harm, when I see a young lady I still get excited, but can't remember why http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

[Fareastdriver]

IIRC the fuel was heated just before the engine filters by passing it through aircraft anti-icing heat exchangers but some fundie on Avons would be able to confirm that. The tanks were not heated. I know that because after a high level -56 C sortie if one landed at a humid place like Bahrain frost would form on the wings above the tanks. They could be combat pressurised, ie nitrogen would be fed into the spaces above the fuel to replace any oxygen. The underwing tanks with combat pressure could jettison 12.500 lbs each in 90 seconds.
Not a good idea to heat fuel inside fuel tanks. Loaded a Valiant to full early one morning in Nairobi, Take off was delayed and the sun came up and warmed up everything. Airport manager severly choked off by all this fuel pouring out of the tip vents over his new dispersal.

[zetec2]

Agree with the above, after a glorious time on 214 Sqd Valiant tankers & then a session in Honington's fuel tank bay remember the only thing in the rubber bag tanks (spent many happy hours fitting tanks popping the buttons into holes that didn't exist only to find the tank was out of line !!!) other than the pumps were the "sacrificial anodes" in nylon bags to corode rather than the tank equipment, also maybe the previous Valiant people may remember the outbreak of "cladisporia resinae", a strange fungus that grew in the tanks, eventually found to be from a poor fuel uplift somewhere in the Far East, we spent many hours defueling the Valiants ( & Victors at Marham & Honington) & going inside the tanks to inspect & clean & treat the tanks, believe a fuel additive (Alcor ?) was added to the bowsers to combat the problem, & regarding pressurising the Valiant underwing tanks with nitrogen who could forget early morning "BF's" pulling the trolleys to the tank, filling them (1,500 psi regulated ?), then opening the valve to allow nitrogen in to the tank only for the valve to stick & having to go down the back of the pylon , bang the vent area to try & close the valve, not always successfull , so back up the front & do it all over again until it worked, oh happy days, lovely aircraft the Valiant as an engine fitter but quite hated by the electricians, Paul H.

[matkat]

Paul would that be bibor? certainly used that to treat/prevent 'claddy' in DC8tanks.

[zetec2]

MatKat,

Thanks, realised error, think Alcor is currently used in piston GA aircraft as an anti freeze type agent, been reading my log books & notes, did an awful lot of work & tank changes on the Valiant then moved on & did similiar on the early Victors, what fun we had when we had a real Air Force !. Paul H.

[zetec2]

MatKat, further checking, think it is "Biobor" found it in my pages seems we had the "fungus" when I was on Britannias in the early 70's, guess it didn't work that well if cladosporium resinae was still around 10 years after first appearing on the Valiants ?.
Paul H.

[zetec2]

Quote:
Biobor JF - Diesel Fuel Microbicide is a liquid fuel additive that combats fungus and other microbial life in hydrocarbon fuels, such as aviation fuels, but is also effective in diesel, light oils and transmission fluid. Biobor JF eliminates growth of harmful slime-producing fungi that clog filters and pipelines, attack rubber fuel system components and whose waste products aid in the corrosion of metal surfaces.
Biobor JF is simple to use and harmless to the wide variety of fuel system parts, top coatings, sealants and elastomeric materials tested. It does not adversely affect fuel performance in engines.
Biobor JF is an effective microbiocide because of its equilibrium solubility in both fuel and water under conditions of fuel storage.

1 Fluid Ounce eliminates slime in 40 gallons of fuel. Used in:


Bulk Storage Tanks
Diesel Boats and Ships
Locomotive Fuel Tanks
Aircraft Fuel Tanks
Farm Equipment
Construction Vehicles
Home Heating Oil TanksUnquote. Paul H.

[Gainesy]

Didn't this fungus stuff crop up (scuse pun) in Herc fuel tanks about 20 years ago? Mebbe its been lying around in various bulk fuel installations over the years.

Getting back to Valiants (lovely looking aeroplane), anyone remember an incident when the co blew the canopy off at height? He was subsequently nicknamed "Fingers"?

[ValiantXD818]

Hi Gingie

If there is anything that you would still like to know about the Valiant drop me a line and I will tell all!

P.

[ValiantXD818]

Hi

Sorry for the late post.

The only Valiant lost due to fire as such was WB210 [first prototype], which was undertaking re-light trials for the Vickers 1000 airliner then under development. During repated engine relights a large volume of unburnt fuel gathered in the wing section outside of the jet pipe. Subsequently it caught fire and remaining undetected until services were lost. The rear crew baled out successfully and the 1st Pilot ejected, but the 2nd pilot [Sqn Ldr Foster] was killed when he ejected, colliding with the port wing as the aircraft broke up. The board of inquiry concluded that he struck the tailplane during ejection, and that the wrong seat cartridges had been fitted, but the Captain maintains that he was lucky to get out as the aircraft was breaking up as he left it! The wreckage fell at Horrowden Heath on the 12:01:52.

P...

[Harley Quinn]

is old news
The ‘Kerosene Fungus’ has become of importance because of its association with aviation fuels. It was Hendey in 1964 who coined the name ‘kerosene fungus’ but prior to this the fungus had been known as the ‘creosote fungus’ (Marsden, 1954) because of its association with creosoted timbers. This fungus exists in two states; the imperfect or asexual state Cladosporium resinae (Lindau) de Vries (de Vries, 1955), and the perfect or sexual state Amorphotheca resinae Parbery (Parbery, 1969a). It is usually referred to as Cladosporium resinae because this is the state in which it normally occurs in kerosene and soil. To further complicate matters four forms of the imperfect state have been described. Intermediate forms exist and most workers find the fungus to be very variable indeed (see Parbery, 1969a).
Interest in this fungus was first aroused by reports of its occurrence in storage and aircraft fuel tanks containing aviation fuel in the early 1960's. Until the mid-1960's, however, a certain amount of secrecy or mystery surrounded the problem of microbial growth in fuels because much of the work was done at defence establishments or in technical laboratories and most reports were difficult of access.
Publicity could, perhaps, have resulted in public panic. The first significant publication in the open scientific literature which drew the attention of mycologists to the problem was Hendey's paper (he was working at the Admiralty Materials Laboratory, Poole, Dorset, England) published in 1964 which dealt with the distribution of the ‘kerosene fungus’ in kerosene-type fuels, its identification and the conditions under which growth occurs. The utilisation of hydrocarbons by micro-organisms had been known for some time previously and Bushnell and Haas (1941) showed that gasoline (= petrol), kerosene, light and heavy mineral oils and paraffin wax could be used as sources of carbon. They examined the ‘water-bottoms’ from various petroleum storage tanks but recorded only bacteria (Pseudomonas and Corynebacterium).
Lansdown, writing in the Royal Aeronautical Society's Journal in 1965, has listed specific problems associated with microbial growth in aviation gasoline and kerosene. These include fuel pump failures and corrosion, filter clogging and fuel tank corrosion. Both bacteria and fungi were implicated. He said at that time (1965), ‘It has now become apparent that microbial contamination is widespread in aircraft fuel supply systems, both on land and in aircraft carriers, where serious clogging of fuel system filters has occurred.’ The problem, although worse in the tropics, appeared to be world wide. It has now been shown that among the fungi the ‘kerosene fungus’ is the organism most frequently implicated, e.g. it was present in 78% of all fuel samples from aircraft tanks examinated in Australia (Hazzard, 1963) and in 80% of all fuel samples examined in California (Engel and Swatek, 1966). It is probably the most important micro-organism in contamination of fuels and in corrosion at the present time (Parbery, 1968).


Intro to
Studies on the ‘Kerosene Fungus’ Cladosporium Resinae (Lindau) De Vries
Part I. The Problem of Microbial Contamination of Aviation Fuels

by J. E. Sheridan (http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/name-170432.html), Jan Nelson (http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/name-170465.html) and Y. L. Tan (http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/name-170466.html)
Botany Department, Victoria University of Wellington

[ian16th]

Sorry to come in late on this thread, but it was only the recent activity that brought it to my attention.

Yes I served on Valiants!

I was a fairy, err Radar Fitter and was on 214, twice! The first time was the significant period, Feb 59 till Oct 62. Yes I was posted out DURING the Cuban crisis.

After a couple of years at Akrotri I asked to spend my last 6 months prior to discharge at Marham, where the Chiefy in Tech Manning decided to put me on 214!

A bad time as the fatigue problem had set in and we spent our time doing 'anti deterioration checks' and playing bridge.

zetec2, Do we know each other?

I left the service near enough at the same time as the decision to scrap the Valiants was taken. Feb 65.

[John Farley]

PFR

The RAF lost a total of 10 Valiants Cat 5.

None of the losses are listed as anywhere near Borneo.

[Wander00]

When the Valiant's were grounded, a now ex Valiant nav called Andy McHugh came on a visit to Cranwell, where I was a cadet - we were in the same year at school. Anyone in contact with him?

[Rollingthunder]

http://www.ausairpower.net/Vickers-Valiant-B-Mk.1.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

Dark roundels and serial numbers, no probe.
Pre 1962 before 90 Sqn converted to tankers. I think it ended up on 543 Sqn.

[zetec2]

XD826 served on 214 Sqd as a tanker up to at least Feb 1962 when it went to TTF (Tanker Training Flight), hope helps, PH.

[Rollingthunder]

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