Modular route to a CPL

[kirkukk]

Can someone tell me the MINIMUM hours required for a UK CPL (Dual, Solo and theory). Not looking at a twin or Instrument rating, unless it is a requirement for the CPL. Just the basics to then pursue add-ons later

I`m looking at the big picture for my son, and need some idea of the cost. I`ve tried to extract this information from the CAA web site, but have found it rather confusing.

I guess the Integrated route is much more expensive?

Also, if the training is done in the USA or Australia, how easy is it to covert to a JAA CPL.

Many thanks

[BoeingDreamer]

Google Lasors CAA, there you will find all details exact as required.

PPL theory (8 exams) + PPL + Night Rating + ATPL theory (14 exams) .
150 hours total time (minimum 100 PIC, 20 hours cross country)

Rarely does anybody make it in minimum time, to be honest I would probably add another 20 - 25 hours to be safe.

Furthermore from the date you finish your last ATPL exam, you must complete your CPL/ME and MEIR within 3 years, if you only do your CPL and exceed the time limit you have to take all the exams again. (and that's no fun)

Integrated will cost you twice the price of modular, and will not be step by step. And will not give much if any advantage in today's job market.

Going to USA, will not be a huge saving, you still need to do the 14 ATPL exams when you return, and the conversion costs is not cheap either. Might be good experience, but if you are on a budget, you also have to consider expenses of moving to US, and living there, you probably will come out similar price as modular in the UK, if not maybe a little more expensive.

PPL will probably take around 3 - 5 months in the UK (weather can be problem) ATPL theory minimum 6 months for the 14 exams (Maximum 18 months from first exam), hour building - again, how long is a piece of string? CPL training around 4 - 6 weeks (weather dependant) Night rating 5 hours.

ME 1 week, and IR around 2 - 3 months (I can not emphasise enough, do not run out of time from your last ATPL exam completed.

Modular the PPL + CPL probably will cost you around £22000 - £25000. (with IR & ME around £40.000 - it is money to be saved depending on if your son can do it in minimum hours)
Remember the adverts always state MINIMUM HOURS, requirement, if you go over you pay, specially take note of this for the FAA and conversion.
Minimum hours conversion is 15 hours, but I have heard of experienced pilots spending 30 hours (each hour approx. £350 in twin/IR conversion)

The £40.000 is a rough price, which includes contingency for more hours then the minimum. (prices does never include exam fees - CPL skill test and issue fee is nearly £1000)

[Obs cop]

Kirkuk,

Firstly a quick question.........what would your son plan to do with a CPL but not a multi engine or instrument rating? The reason I ask is that a single engine CPL has very limited employment options such as flying instructor, banner towing, glider towing, aerial phgotography and parachute dropping. All of these roles are low pay.

If your son's aspiration is airlines then additional bits are needed which are not included in the single engine CPL. A multi engine rating is needed as well as a multi engine instrument rating and the 14 ATPL exams must be completed not just the CPL exams. Likewise the multi crew co-operation course must be completed.

For your information I have posted a break down of the minimum qualification/hours to start the courses, and the minimum hours of the course length. It should be noted that there are variations to this route but there are certain key restrictions. For licence issue a CPL applicant must have 200 hours total flight time with 100 hours P1. You will note that the mandatory training courses only include 12 hours of P1 (ie. solo). The skills tests for each course have not been included but can generate 6 or 7 hours P1. This still leaves 80+ hours solo hours building to be flown as part of this route.

PPL
min start hours - nil
min course length - 45 hours including 10 hours P1

Night Qualification
Min start qual - PPL
Min course length - 5 hours including 2 hours P1

ATPL Exams (training must be from approved school either Distance Learning or full time)
Min start qualification - PPL

Multi engine CPL (CPL course combined with multi engine rating)
Min start qualification - PPL plus Night Qual plus ATPL exams passed
Min start hours - 150 hours for CPL including 70 hours P1 for multi engine training
Min course length - 28 hours

Instrument rating (5 hour reduction to course for having CPL)
Min start qualification - CPL and multi engine rating with ATPL exams passed
Min start hours - none specified (if I recall correctly!)
Min course hours - 50 (of which a maximum 35 can be completed in an approved simulator)

MCC course
Min start qual - CPL with multi engine instrument rating
Min course hours - 20 hours in an approved simulator

At this point a candidate is qualified to go for airlines but all of the above is the easy bit!


As an idea of costs, I have included a break down of my budgeted costs and actual costs below. I started with a PPL and 30 hours solo before going down this route so you would need to budget an additional sum to cover PPL (£5000 ish) plus £2000 pounds for 20 hours of flying plus £450ish for intial class 1 medical.

Course; Budget; Actual (costs vary due to changes
in VAT, CAA costs and my
muppetry!)

Distance Learning; £1995; £1995
Module 1 Exams (5); £310; £310
Module 2 Exams (4); £248; £252
Module 3 Exams (5); £310; £315

Night rating; £793; £724
Night rating on licence; £78; £80

Hours building (70 hours); £7000; £6395

M/E CPL Course; £8125; £8053
Test Fee; £729; £1271
Licence issue; £231; £231

MEIR; £14675; £12887
Test Fee; £762; £1524
Rating addition; £108; £108

MCC; £1998; £1998

Totals; £37362; £36143

Please note the above is rarer than lunch on the moon in as much as I came in £1200 under budget and that could easily have been eaten in 3 to 4 hours of additional Multi Engine training or another retest. You must, must, must have a contingency budget as for example I've seen CPL students need 15+ hours additional training which adds thousands of pounds to the costs. As an indicator I was only 3% under my planned budget and these figures don't include my PPL, medicals or 20 hours prior to starting my commercial flight training


Hope this helps,
Obs

[Obs cop]

Apologies for the above only my attempts to put the costs into some form of table in the message seems not to want to format nicely. None the less if you read aech line as the course folloed by the budgeted cost followed by the actual cost it will hopefully make sense.

Obs:(

[FlyingStone]

BoeingDreamer, the 150 hours is the minimum total time at which you can begin your modular CPL(A) training. In order to get the licence actually issued, you need 200 total hours.

[dave_o_EI]

Obs cop,

Great post. Do you mind me asking, where did you do your hourbuilding?

And the ATPL theory, Bristol GS by any chance?

[Obs cop]

Dave,

No problems,

All hours building was in the UK. Based in the midlands I used Tatenhill and Donair.

Both are very reasonable (generally within 5 or 10 pounds of £100 per hour when I did it), virtually all was cessna 152 to keep costs down. Donair used to give 5% discount I think it was for purchasing a 10 hour block. Whilst I am an advocate of not paying up front, this was a calculated decision because I would literally put £1000 in the account before flying 9 or 10 hours in the next 2 or 3 days! When I used them both the hourly rates included home landings, so I could keep circuit skills up to date by doing a couple of circuits every now and again at the end of each flight.

Both organisations were terribly nice to deal with, instructors excellent for currency checks and SEP revalidations. Donair has the advantage of operating out of East Mids with all the facilities and procedures applicable to a full airport. The only disadvantage was occasionally sitting on the ground or orbiting on the base leg as it's a busy place and wake seperation is an issue. Quite eye opening to be following a 737, taxying in your 152! Tatenhill is much easier to get in and out of and has much less stringent departure or recovery due to no control zone, but doesn't have the corrersponding ATC services.

Both organisations have plenty of 152's and all nicely maintained, never had to cancel a flight due to tech. Can't say the same about DA40's or DA42's when doing my CPL and IR :}

Trying to make flights a minimum of 1 1/2 hours but preferrably 2 hours each makes for a numb bum but is far more efficient. Landings away were completed using the free landing vouchers from the periodical flying magazines. Got to visit some fabulous places as a result. Very worthwhile sitting down an planning a route from East Mids to Lands End for example. Even more worthwhile to then fly it, it's a hell of a long way in a 152, but with the right planning can be done with no headaches. Nav over Norfolk and Lincolnshire is challenging due to the topography and trying to find places like Fenland are worthwhile exercises because my CPL nav leg was to a grass strip field in poor but legal VFR visibility. It was a moment of pure joy looking out with 2 mintes to go and seeing the field drift quitely intoview with 30 seconds to go!

I went for as many MATZ penetrations, zone crossings as I could to keep R/T and controlled airspace familiarity levels high.

I would say that 8 out of 10 flights were visual nav with clock, map compass only. Funny old thing breezed the CPL nav section :O the remaining 20% of the flying was made up of visual flying but navigating by VOR and ADF, or general handling. The GH included circuits in all configurations, practicing accurate flying skills, slow flying, steep turns etc.

All in all some of the most enjoyable flying I have done.

Regards,
Obs