Quick one - A pension Lawyer please

[Bannock]

Hi Guys, can anyone PM a contact number for a lawyer who has experience with service pension issues. Just had a bombshell dropped on my lap, I could do with some advice.

Cheers

[The Old Fat One]

The Forces Pension Society (http://www.forcespensionsociety.org/)

I'd start with the above...if they can't help you I'm sure than can direct you to someone who can.

[c130jbloke]

Second the above. For anybody on an pensionable engagement or already recieveing said, its the best 25 (ish) quid per year you can spend.

Become a member quick and give them a call- if they don't know then they will somebody who does.

Good luck :ok:

C130JB

[L J R]

Bannock - please post the Bombshell - just in case others might be lined up for same...

[appleavi8or]

Bannock.

I have just had a bombshell too, perhaps similar to yours? Mine is essentially an offer to transfer onto 05 which I accepted (having phoned the helpline up to make sure they had taken into account my particular service etc) and now, some years later and just about to leave, my pension forecast is considerably different - by £70k+ gratuity & £6k+ pa.

On asking for a copy of their original offer the response was to send me yet another forecast, acknowledging a mistake with the second one. I think it fair to say that I based my employment options, service aspirations, housing, schooling etc, on what I had originally thought to be an accurate offer from a responsible and trustworthy employer - It seems I may have been wrong to place my trust in the SPVA.

Anyhoo. Like Bannock, if anyone can suggest a good lawyer or personal experience which may be of help, I too would be grateful.

On asking around, I think there are a number of others in the same boat.

[c130jbloke]

what I had originally thought to be an accurate offer from a responsible and trustworthy employer

:eek::eek:

Or is it just me.

And TF for independent financial advisors. Like I said in a previous post, get onto Forpen ASAP, I think they be your best hope.

Good luck.

[Al R]

Bannock/anyone who has just been 'bombed',

Out of professional interest, what is this bombshell?

Apple, what is the reason given for dropping your lump sum and annual pension? Is it a sudden/retrospective drop? I assume you didn't know about it before now.

(PM if you'd rather?)

[Biggus]

apple,

I'm not quite sure where your numbers come from - unless some of the pension has been commuted?

Since gratuity = 3 x pension (pa as quoted by you) :

An error of 70k in gratuity would imply an error in the pension of 23.3k

or alternatively.

An error of 6k in pension (pa) would produce an error in the gratuity of 18k.


Hence my confusion and assumption that some form of commutation must be involved? If some of the pension is to be commuted the correct calculation of this might well be where the error has been made, either originally or now.

Any more detail you are willing to supply would be appreciated. For some strange reason we all seem to take a great interest in pension matters!

[Al R]

I thought that wider distribution of this might be useful.

http://www.rafcom.co.uk/pay_allowances/pdf/afps05_reemployment.pdf

[Equilibrium]

On subject of pensions, is there aquick way via JPA to check which scheme 1 is on or do you have to go via "handbrake house"? :*

[Al R]

.. when did you join up?

If you joined after 6 April 2005 you will be a member of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme 2005 (AFPS 05). If you joined between 1975 and 5 April 2005 you will be a member of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme 1975 (AFPS 75). If you are/were in ''75'', you will have been offered the chance to switch and make a deliberate decision to join ''05'', and could remember it.

[Equilibrium]

Thanks Al R but I joined in 83 signed onto the 05 scheme but in tune with this thread thought it might b prudent to ensure there was evidence of my choice to transfer! Hence is there a quick way to check?
Cheers :O

[Al R]

Ah, 83 is a fine vintage.

There will be on JPA, I have been told by people, but my knowledge of it isn't good enough to direct you how to do that - sorry.

Introduction to the pension calculator (http://www.mod-pc.co.uk/)

Have you spent a couple of minutes doing that /\ ? Priceless. Assuming that most readers will be relying on AFPS to form the lion's share of their retirement / post service income, until you know what you're going to get and until you know what you want retirement to 'look' like for you, you don't know if you have to step on the gas, financially, or if you can ease off a little and diversify.

I am an IFA now (I specialise with private military clients because I know the mentality, the career path, the mentality, the mil friendly product providers, the lingo, AFPS etc) and a private client stockbroker, and I have no need to tout for business on the interweb. But let me tell one and all about this Programme which has the full support of the MoD at Main Building and a dedicated RAF point of contact (SL).

CFEB | Workplace Tools for employers (http://www.cfebuk.org.uk/our-work/workplace/)

'CFEB', until a few months ago, was part of the FSA - but it got 'rationalised' and is now an offshoot. I was the first IFA in the country to be invited by the FSA, The Pensions Advisory Service and the National Assoc of Pension Funds (a real fun bunch of folk) to deliver impartial community talks about personal financial planning in the wake of the Credit Crunch. The talks are designed to clarify questions about savings, investments, retirement and insurance for yourself and for your families. Most are delivered to professionals who simply don't have the time to do it themselves.

I deliver presentations to (for instance) Honda UK, BAe, NHS, MoD, Dept of Work and Pensions, John Lewis, local Councils etc.. all bodies that want their employees to be financially more insightful and empowered. I do many talks to RAF recruits, cadets, officers and SNCOs and the talks are NOT sales talks - I am not alllowed, nor would I undermine the credibility of, the sessions or myself, by touting for business. I don't do big tie knots.

I do them because if I do have to be on the Authority radar, I'd rather it be for the right reasons and on my terms, because its a great programme and it because it empowers people and lets them see that they can start saving for their futures by doing more than just sticking tens of thousands into a paltry cash ISA. And also because I would have benefited if someone had offered me an hour's impartial chat into how savings, investments and pensions work, and what I should be looking for and what is needed from me to get where I want to be. A personal financial plan should be like a Battlegroup - too many Stackers and not enough enemy get killed, too many Inf and not enough Stackers and not enough munitions gets to the front. All things in moderation and the right tools for the job - are there are thousands of tools out there. But most people only know a tiny fraction of whats available.

This CFEB presentation is not that thinly disguised seedy sales pitch that you might get on resettlement, and although I sometimes have to bite my lip, when I have my impartial FSA 'hat' on, I am even occasionally nice to the Banks. The feedback is almost universally supportive - for many RAF pers, who are metaphorically and sometimes literally, isolated from High Streets and normality (for months at a time), financial planning never gets addressed until the final year's service or so. I don't arrange them - all I do is get tasked (I tend to pick up most of the MoD requests for presentations) and if they are held in a Mess one evening, all I ask for is a bit of tucker. If anyone wants more info, or if there any CMCs/PMCs who would like to arrange a presentation, please feel free to ask publically or via pm.

[wub]

Can anyone tell me which AFPS I belong to, having joined in 1971 and left in 1981? Thanks.

[allan907]

The "pre 75" one. You will get a preserved pension on reaching age 55 (but for 10 years it's not going to be much)

[wub]

The "pre 75" one. You will get a preserved pension on reaching age 55 (but for 10 years it's not going to be much)

Thanks for that, but according to the piece of paper I have (and it is just that; a small piece of paper), I don't qualify to draw a preserved pension till age 60 at which age I also get a terminal grant of 3 times the pension. I asked the question because I did wonder if a 'pre 75' scheme exists or if all 'pre 75' members automatically joined the AFPS 75 scheme.

[The Old Fat One]

wub

Again...the forces pension society will give the precise answer.

AL R

Thank you for an interesting and informative post. I had not heard of the CFEB (or more likely, I have read it about, but not hoisted it on board) and I had a quick scan of the web site and its offshoots and it seems to be a good initative. I am very much in favour of any idea which empowers individuals where finances are concerned, especially those that bring real transparency to the proceedings. By the way, I remember the resettlement "seedy" sales pitch and I concur. I'm not a fan of the other organisation which often pitches up to give financial advice either....always found it a bit half cocked.

I do have a bit of an axe to grind with the IFA profession however...

Too often I find them to be not IFA's, but IFPA's (Independant Financial Products Advisors). Pensions, for example, are touted with religious zeal, when they are only one of many ways to provide an income in retirement. And don't get me started on insurance!

Best independant financial advisor I have found so far is this chap...

Warren Buffett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett)

Never met him though.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

TOFO,

There is a very good reason that the whole of the finance sector is so heavily regulated, it has way more than its fair share of thieving pikey barst@rds :(

[Al R]

Old and Fat,

The CFEB initiative has sanction from up high, but it is not widely promulgated. For the sake of an hour of anyone's time, NOT to experience it is madness, but its probably RAF mentality which sees slightly prescriptive things from up high as yet another burden to be spurned. I spoke with 30 or so lads the other week, and you can see the spark ignite within them, when they realise that if they do just a little regularly, now - and get used to a little going out each month - then at the 22 year point, their options are so much broader. These were young Gunners and they all wanted to save, 7 of them wanted to buy a house.. but they just didn't know how to, apart from chucking some money into an idiotic loss making cash ISA, which of course, the Bank is happy to help them out with whilst also taking a wedge in interest off Bank Credit cards too :ugh:. What they needed, but what they didn't have, was a plan. They lived behind a wire, they went away for 6 months at a time and before they know it, they are 30 and they have 'lost' 10 years. More importantly, pro rata, so many more Vets end up on the street because they have no housing and that is linked to having no money. Talking about respect for our Vets is one thing, but it has to start with educating those potential vets themselves, as 18 year old recruits and in some cases, as 26 year old Flt Lts or 38 year old Chief Techs.

Buffett is legendary, but 'independent' ;)? Buffett does what is best for Buffett. Sounds good to me.. but he is a one man compounding effect on the market; he knows that if he buys a stake in something, people fall over themselves to follow, the price rises and then he can sell and walk away with a hefty wedge. If it is announced that he is buying a 10% stake in some Mongolian Belly Pork Futures fund, would that also be the right move for, for instance, a 50 year old retiring WO? No, probably not. But it might be worth a punt for a 23 year old Loadmaster playing the long game, and anyway, should the Loadie be properly insured first and foremost, and is he investing to make returns of 15% when he is also paying off huge credit card debt running at 25%? Everyone’s needs and wishes are different and that’s the nice part of this job.

I agree that Tied Advisers who are sales based and bank salesmen too, might not always be as objective as we would like. But that doesn’t mean all Bank staff are bad and it doesn’t mean that all IFAs are good. The FSA Retail Distribution Review is thinning out a lot of the chaff, all be it in a slightly zealous and overly bank friendly way. Its easy to have a pop at IFAs, but when the only option is a 23 year old in a Bank who simply needs you to buy to keep his numbers up, then we’ll wonder (again) where it all went wrong. Thankfully, there is a market for proper advice, and I like working with my clients, getting to know them, and sharing in their gains. I see nothing wrong in working hard and diligently to make 21% for a client’s portfolio and then taking .75% of that, if she otherwise would have simply left it in some cruddy managed ISA fund and have lost 7%. Most IFAs work hard and get paid for doing a good job which is to their client's advantage. I don't want a shed load of clients, I don't take on that many new ones each year now, and I sleep soundly at night.

But in principle, yes.. I agree. There is big money to be made, and a lot of it is down to personal integrity, which, in the past has been found lacking with some of my kind. I agree too, about Insurance. The Life Insurers who deal with the MoD in a fair way are diminishing rapidly. There is one good company at the moment, which looks upon the RAF kindly.. differently in fact, to the Army and the Navy (the looks on young Gunners faces when they realise that they are treated for ‘risk‘ purposes as Admin clerks..!). Regretably, for most readers of this forum, premiums are loaded for fliers, but a young airman could get himself squared away with a quarter of a million quid’s worth of Life Cover for about £25 a month - cover that would pay out if he later went to Afghan and died. Time and time again, I have clients who pay out huge premiums for Active Service Injury cover, when they have never deployed, and are not likely to - certainly not into the kind of harm’s way that others are exposed to. No names, no pack drill, we know the product names and I would never suggest binning them, but the bottom line is that the majority are subsidising the few. In itself, no probs with that - after all, its one big team effort, but should you pay needlessly for something?

The CFEB initiative is low impact, and has a dedicated point of contact for the MoD, so seriously is the lack of financial awareness considered. And I know he would like to be worked harder.. (sorry Joe!). As a young(.. ish :O) Rockape, I was discharged after a busy FAC tour with (as was) 5 Airborne Brigade. I have the fluffy tax free pension, which is nice, but I never anticipated the nature and lead in/timings of my premature career endex. I never had the objective perspective that would have helped me. I remember those idiotic, banal socially inclusive tick tests that we used to have to do, just so some 1 or 2 Star could get a warm fuzzy glow at saying we all really really care for one eyed purple, pink or yellow lesbian single mothers, when most of us had the common sense and social skills to have those qualities anyway. But what is the point in us falling over ourselves in outrage at middle aged slappers having a slash on a War Memorial for the Glorious Dead if we can’t be bothered to do anything in advance about preventing Legions of the Glorious, living, middle aged from sleeping in shop doors?

Must dash - I have to make myself ready for being taken out to breakfast by a blonde and busty pension company rep, and these days, getting ready takes ages. :ok:

(.. and also, stepping down off preachy soapbox :oh: )

[AED24]

AL R

Two very detailed, sensible and helpful posts, thanks for taking the time to share your expertise.

[c130jbloke]

AL R,

Nice one, thanks.

I remember a certain small, "almost a wheel" Flt Lt ALM giving young U/T loadies some very sound advice of a similar nature back in 1987. Some of the best stuff I ever heard, and the fruits of a small investment back then will come to fruition soon - cheers DB.

[Tiger_mate]

cheers DB

That is the first time in three decades I have heard anyone say a comment anywhere near close to that. Are you sure you are not "DB"?