NSW Air

[girl with a stick]

G'day guys....

I'm considering doing my instructor's rating at NSW Air.

Any one have any feedback/experience of the outfit?

Cheers in advance,

GWAS

P.S Before any of our less-patient posters flick the Using the Search Button for Dummies pic at me, I did diligently conduct a search, and read some fairly alarming stuff, but it's around five years old. :ok:

[WhirlyMan]

Stay away. Spend your hard earned cash elsewhere. Those threads from 5 years ago are quite true.

You will get a better instructor rating at another school. I should know, I use to work there. They are greedy and promise alot but don't deliver.

[Ultralights]

please dont let them teach you to do 5 mile wide cross country circuits.. "because their students go on to fly airliners" annoys the crap out of many of the regular users of that airfield.

[pull-up-terrain]

Are these guys fine for doing a PPL?

[LeadSled]

Are these guys fine for doing a PPL?

pull-up-terrain,
Not if they are teaching "cross country" circuits, no.
What's with this idea that large aircraft do huge circuits, the size of the circuit relates to the standard pattern IAS, not the gross weight of the aircraft.
Tootle pip!!

[Capn Bloggs]

What's with this idea that large aircraft do huge circuits, the size of the circuit relates to the standard pattern IAS, not the gross weight of the aircraft.

The weight determines the speed in the circuit. More weight, more lift required, more speed required. Aerodynamics 101. Throw in an inefficient wing at low speed ie airliners and the speed goes up even more. So keeping it simple, the weight directly determines the speed and therefore size of a circuit. Until the 747 is fitted with a straight wing with a span of 1nm, it'll fly much bigger circuits than a C152.

Ask a 747 pilot, Ledsled. :ok:

Whether the instructor should be teaching jet-size circuits in a bugsmasher is another matter! :}

[CPT733]

Im Currently doing CPL at Bankstown if you can make the drive which would be worthwhile id be happy to PM you school etc (Dont wanna seem as if im trying to advertise the school on here). We have a dedicated FIR Instructor which is a CASA testing officer for alot of schools at bankstown. The Next course is due to start this month and its not a group course it is individual so if you are keen to make the lovely 50minute drive then send me a PM and ill give you all info and who to contact.


EDIT: I SHOULD REALLY LOOK AT THE DATE BEFORE I POST STUFFF:ugh:

[T28D]

Bloggs for you, Lead Sled is a B 747 Check and Training Captain capish !!

[Capn Bloggs]

Bloggs for you, Lead Sled is a B 747 Check and Training Captain capish !!
I know... :}

[Trojan1981]

I have flow with NSW Air, though a long time ago. They did teach set turning points in the circuit for noise abatement. I don't have much to do with them now, but I can tell you they have some good people.

The only issue in my opinion is that they have a fairly high turn-over of staff. It would be prudent to keep some of the better instructors, pay them more, and build the business. I have seen better, and worse run schools. If you are only doing a PPL and live in Kiama then yes, I would recommend them. Otherwise what about LSAs at Jasper's Brush?

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Actually, out of modesty, I must make an amendment, I was a B767 Check and Training Captain, on the B744, just a line Captain.

Sure, in a standard circuit, I would be about 1500'/1.5nm abeam the runway down wind, or a bit under a mile if it was 1000' AGL, but have you seen some of the cross-country circuits that are being taught. At Camden, they should be getting getting a clearance to re-enter the zone.
Years ago, Avalon, domestics in an F-27 were frequently wider than our circuits. A message here somewhere --- wide circuits have always been a problem in AU, but in my opinion, it is getting worse.

Bloggs,
Unlike some of your complaints in the past, about how hard it is to see traffic in the circuit at 250 kt, we always used minimum speeds in the circuit, so we would be little or no faster than the speeds flown by many light twins in the circuit.

Tootle pip!!

[roundsounds]

Leadsled
I agree, I instructed at Camden for many years and it wasn't unusual to complete 2 circuits inside other traffic (with ATC cooperation - not done during NCTL hours).

[bushpig]

Back to the original query. Have a talk to Graeme and or Sheldon at Moruya if it is not to far away for you. Top people, great environment. Prices good last time I checked. Google the aeroclub. That's where they operate.

[pull-up-terrain]

Back to the original query. Have a talk to Graeme and or Sheldon at Moruya if it is not to far away for you. Top people, great environment. Prices good last time I checked. Google the aeroclub. That's where they operate.

I have done a few hours with them and they were great, but drivng to Moruya from Sydney is too far for me to do on a regular basis.

[50 50]

Nsw air, a subsidiary of the Australian Aerial Patrol, is in dire financial circumstances. The parent company AAP, despite being funded by community sponsors, and subsidised by the government, has recently been electing to ground all beach patrol flights and keep crews on "standby for a callout". it appears fuel expenses are beyond their capacity to pay.
Also beyond their capacity to pay are wages, and bills, the latter of which have recently been attempted to pass off to students.
Anyone considering placing their future in this company only need look at the related posts. Everything Angelseeker posted is true, and the same people are still in charge. Despite the main players enormous salary and fringe benefits, including a fully funded car for personal use, they can't afford, or just plain won't pay their trainee secretary the very minimal wages they owe.

[truthinbeer]

50 50, I concede the body of your post is your reporting of what you know or consider to be the current situation of this operator. I am at a complete loss to understand what you are trying to say with your last statement about 2 deceased people.

[farmer dan]

They pay their instructors next to nothing (read: 'contract') and expect the world. It's one of those places that you get your hours and get out asap. It is a shame for the students as they get someone with 250 TT sitting next to them trying to teach them something that they aren't really sure about themselves. I wouldn't trust the boss either.... It is a shame because the area has so much potential and they could really make a good business out of it....
just my $0.02 worth.

[Trojan1981]

I agree with you farmer dan.

I have seen opportunities come and go in that place. They are too focused on their own nest-egg to realise that letting the good, motivated people go is damaging the long-term viability of the business. Last time I did a check flight down there I had three times as many hours as the instructor (and I don't have a lot!).

A little bit of competition would probably pummel them.

[citation_nation]

This is the same company that dropped this rust bucket onto a golf course not long back.

Wollongong: Light plane makes emergency landing on golf course | Illawarra Mercury (http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/635591/wollongong-light-plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-golf-course/)

Surely they would be in the rough with CASA after that debacle? I would learn to fly somewhere safer, maybe with the skydiving mob one hanger down!

[desmaquar]

STAY AWAY!!!!
I have a lot of good friends (Previous Instructors) who have worked there.

I know of cases where CASA have carried out FIR tests and failed the candidate for not meeting the minimum syllabus requirements even with the CFI recommendation signed only to be charged an additional testing fee and hours on top of the flat course fees. Another was allowed to go on a 'Fly Away' with his mates to obtain the mutual time.......

Do yourself a favour and go somewhere else.

Des

[desmaquar]

I Observed a Forced Landing while sitting on the beach [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-505109.html)

Another NSWAIR forced landing.....

[50 50]

Ok. So at the end of the "shark" season, 2013, Austraian Aerial Patrol has completed less than 50% of its scheduled flights. This may be due to the "crew chief" grounding any flights that he's not personally on. Or I may be a giant cynic.

By the way DS, if your ASIC is only valid foy YSSY why do you wear it at YWOL?

There is an enormous amount of community money poured into this ridiculous establishment, for the supposed protection of the public.
I can say from first hand experience that the observers who are supposedly responsible for spotting sharks, although we'll intentioned, were also first hand witnesses to the sinking of the Titanic. Most of them have to be pointed to the aircraft.

Every pilot wants to build hours, but it is professionally embarrassing to associate with an organisation that is so completely amateur.

The only slick part of this enterprise is the GM dealing with the press.

I love absolutely every second I spend in the air. I know I'm not the only one. But we simply cannot accept that "New pilots work for nothing".
Charity status or otherwise, the money is coming in, where is it going?

[Trojan1981]

50 50, It hasn't always been that way. When the AAP was separate from NSW Air, back in the late '90s-early 2000's, the AAP were regularly checked and assessed by AMSA and CASA. The SAR crew were better and the standards were much higher. This had a flow-on effect to the beach patrols, with the same crew often doing these sorties. They really did do some good work, finding missing vessels and aircraft; saving lives. I know because I personally found several of them, airdropped supplies and life-rafts and guided helicopters and ships by radio to conduct retrievals.

A whole bunch of hangers-on were attracted to the AAP during this period. Then HM bought WFTS and turned it into NSW Air. When the AMSA work was lost, NSW Air was used to support the AAP. With the role and relevance of the AAP now slipping into history, the good crews left and only the hangers-on remained. It is now a farce, completely pointless. Most of the good guys have gone onto bigger and better things. Some to the ADF, some to airlines or turbine GA, depending on their preferences.

Those left are the cheap, inexperienced or very young and very old. The crews have flown with known defects and probably still do. Half the sorties are cancelled and the guys running the show have NFI. The aircraft they operate are not even suitable for the role and there is no investment going into either company to develop and evolve. Over at the school the instructors are underpaid (like most schools I should add) and there seems to be no credible plan for capturing and securing future business. There is certainly no incentive for the instructors to stay. Personally, for anything more than a PPL, I would go elsewhere.

[50 50]

The latest edit of the AAP Wikipedia entry 14/1/14 claims they are still available 24/7 365 days a year for emergencies!
If I go missing please call someone else.

[farmer dan]

looks like they are advertising for a new CFI on AFAP. Interesting times ahead...

[Kharon]

Not that any of this 'expansion' would be based on the sad, recent demise of the Cleary AOC. Nah !! -now there's a job for a 'keen' journalist, if ever I saw one.

[50 50]

That would be the shortest career ever as a CFI. They can't even pay the people they have. They advertised 5 weeks ago as well. Lack of applicants?
Please apply to the HR department? That would either be the GM, the marketing guy or the current CFI. There is nobody else.
Sounds like a big operation though doesn't it? Spin spin spin!
EDIT: I know how you people are with punctuation.

[zanthrus]

Looks like they are advertising again for a new CFI on AFAP.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Do they have a new owner? VH-BCY can you fill us in?

[Trojan1981]

Really 50 50, last time I checked, wiki was not where AMSA looked for SAR assistance. In fact, until very recently, they often called me.


New owner and the long-term incumbent is retiring, or at least trying to. I think there are big changes afoot, and in my opinion that can only be a good thing. :ok:

[VH-BCY]

Not yet but soon. :E