My wife swore in with a group of 94 to become an American citizen today in Detroit.

The federal magistrate presiding over the ceremony told her story of being a second generation Lebanese who first began to learn English as a newly arrived political refugee in the late 50s.

To me, watching the procession of people from all over the world to the podium to receive their precious certificates, with a personal greeting and mutual exchange of joy between them and the judge, was quite gratifying; it was a validation of what makes America the beautiful nation it is. There were Russians, Africans, Canadians, Asians, Brits and other Europeans - a smattering from everywhere.

The fact that America is an idea, not an ethnicity, race, ideology, or religious constituency struck me again today as being a very good thing. Only a few nations have a birthday, rather than an ethnic heritage.

Freedom and opportunity are what drew these people from far-flung places to jump through the hoops of gaining American citizenship. The people I saw today buying into the American idea reassures me that the strength of our nation safely resides in our new citizens, who I sensed feel it as much as can be felt.

Congratulations to Mrs BandAide.

We hear many National Anthems sung, but none so uplifting as the Star Spangled Banner. I do not doubt that performance often falls short of principle, but what words does any anthem have to offer nobler than "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave"?

God Bless America.

Hear hear. Long may her light shine forth, the blazing fire of civilisation standing proud against the forces of Darkness. Undeniable faults aside (no-one's perfect), The West would be stuffed without the United States, and everyone knows it.

Thank God for America.

Respect.

Yer,congrats, and they invented the Stratocaster,:ok:


But not the lecky light bulb.
:rolleyes:

Congrats BandAide, you must be very proud!

Happy day for you both BandAide.
Your citizenship ceremony, both from your description and from what I have seen on tv, seems appropriately grave, festive and stresses the importance of the new status.

Much superior to the silly "voluntary" wishy washy stuff we do here in Norway. Voluntary to the point where most new citizens choose to receive their passport by mail. The government showing people how UNimportant their new citizenship is. How daft can you be?

Enough of that, congratulations to the New American. :ok:

Give yer Missus a big ol' hug for me!

No small thing to shift one's allegiance and take on both the rights and obligations such a decision requires.

:D:D:D:D

Grats to you and the Missus, BandAide. :D:ok:

BandAide:

A hearty congratulations to Mrs. BandAide.

What are you and the Mrs. going to do for a celebration, eh? !!!!!

I'll remind my new American she is no longer a subject as we venture into the Commonwealth,


Has she had to renounce her previous nationality?

I admire American national pride. No matter where you go in America the flag is on display and you're always certain of exactly where you are.

I remember when we were as proud of the Union Flag, but now it seems to be something to be ashamed of.

I'm not speaking for Mrs. BandAide but I believe, and I could be wrong, that when taking American citizenship you must give up your previous one.

No, she retains her Australian citizenship and passport, but she swore allegiance to the United States unequivocally.

BandAide:

One learns something new every day. (Or at least aspires to do so.)

I was always under the ASSumption that one could not hold dual passports as an American citizen. For example: my 2 sons and 1 daughter from a previous marriage (to a Brit.) all have both American and British passports. Yet I was under the impression that come age 18 they have to choose one over the other.

I guess this ASSumption is incorrect then?

I have no desire to become American, so have not researched this topic in detail.

My vague, therefore, understanding is that in swearing an allegiance to the United States, one has to renounce allegiance to any other country.

That oath is, correctly, only recognised by the USA, and has no legal significance outside of its borders.

So, for example, if you are called to arms by your country of birth, there is no mechanism by which you can avoid being conscripted, unless your country of birth has in place procedures allowing you to relinquish your nationality in that country, and that you have duly followed that process.

I think there is a difference between dual nationality by virtue of parents of one nation, and place of birth in a different one on the one hand, and election to take on a particular nationality, different from that given by one's place of birth, or one's parentage on the other hand.

And do not forget that to be issued screaming into the world from one's mother's womb does not per se make one a citizen of the country in which the event took place.

Get popped out in Switzerland does not make you Swiss.


I'll remind my new American she is no longer a subject as we venture into the Commonwealth

Unless she renounced her previous citizenship, which cannot be so if she has kept her passport, then you are entirely wrong. She remains a subject.

Gee wings folded, nothing like pissing on someone's parade, eh?

That issue came up when American citizens visiting Iraq were conscripted into the Iraqi army to fight Americans.

Of course, American law is supreme only in America, and a dual citizen called up by his native land would not be extradited for that purpose, but would only be at risk of such an event should he leave our shores.

The Constitution says that if you are born in the United States you are automatically an American citizen, regardless of any other circumstances.

There is a movement afoot to promote an amendment to rescind that provision. There is also a movement to legislatively restrict the concept of 'anchor babies', natural born citizens who by virtue of their status currently enable their immediate family to immigrate. That is not a Constitutional right, but is currently being practised to the chagrin of many.

When you take the oath of US citizenship, you renounce all other loyalties, but not other citizenships. True, she remains a subject, but has obtained considerably more discretion as to the application of her subjectitude.

Gee wings folded, nothing like pissing on someone's parade, eh?

A strange reaction indeed to my post in response to yours, concerning as you put it ASSumptions.

I merely put forward my understanding of the mechanisms.

I wish total happiness to Mr and Mrs Bandaide

As a holder of triple citizenship and dual passports , the last of which is American, I can assure you that prior citizenship is not automatically renounced.

There are rules, however: one must use the US passport to re-enter the US. And serving in a foreign military as a combatant against the US invalidates US citizenship.

Otherwise, there are millions of legitimate "dual" citizens.

Having experience with friend's pursuit of Citizenship, I know how difficult and time consuming it can be. Anything worth doing is worth doing well, and in Law.

What a glorious accomplishment! A bright light in a sometimes scuro landscape.
What an encouragement to us all.

:D:D:D

Congratulations.
May you both enjoy many celebrations.

A question from my own ignorance - why did she give up being an Aussie to become American?

I suspect that one reason would be to ease the procedure at Immigration when re-entering the USA . . .

why did she give up being an Aussie to become American?

Bet you she wants to vote. :p

Congrats!!

I suspect that one reason would be to ease the procedure at Immigration when re-entering the USA . . .

That is definitely a factor. She gets hassled half the time we leave the country, mostly to Mexico or the Caribbean. We wait in a room for her to be interviewed and cleared, and have to allow for this in our itinerary planning. But that's not the real reason she became a citizen.

why did she give up being an Aussie to become American?

She's still Aussie. I tricked her into marrying me 15 years ago, and in all that time up until about a year ago we planned to retire in Hawaii, where we have a condo on the ocean, now rented out, and spend half the year there and the other half in Queensland, where her family is. US citizenship was not a factor.

In the last year, though, she started to make noises about how she likes it in Michigan, and we have the capability through my airline affiliation to travel anywhere and often. She loves her job in Ann Arbor, has many close, local friends, and has bonded well with my family, who are mostly in Michigan, where I grew up. Further, Michigan's economy is absolutely awful, affording us to look at buying property for half what it cost only a few years ago, and far below construction cost. So one day she said we should buy our dream house, stay here, sell Hawaii, and she would be happy with that, providing our new house has separate quarters for her parents to come and live. I agreed, and that is now our plan. The citizenship motive arose from that.

Absolutely marvelous!

Give her a hug and a hardy handclasp for me please.

Welcome to citizenship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ok:

BandAide:

Your wife sounds like a very lovely woman. That's nice to hear.

Congratulations. A great day indeed.

This seems fitting.

KgaQQfV5qwk

Thanks, 11Fan.

That's pretty much reflective of the ceremony I attended. There were 8 members of my family in the front row, three of them taking the day off from work for the occasion. It was quite emotional, many of the participants and onlookers were openly weeping with joy, and I had watery eyes myself, but it was a very happy and uplifting experience. We got there early, sat in the good seats, and got to see up close the faces and expressions of the people getting their certificates. It was a priceless privilege to observe it all.

Anyone can go to these ceremonies and I recommend it. While I don't endorse many of the manifestations of the current, political multiculturalism, particularly when it takes the form of blind electoral calculation, I recognize and endorse the pure multicultural aspect of the citizenship ceremony. It's the 'poor huddled masses' part that I find pure and enriching. I love this country for that alone.

Thanks, again, for all your responses.

What restrictions are there that would prevent anyone becoming a US Citizen?

BandAide,

and I had watery eyes myself, but it was a very happy and uplifting experience.

I got a little misty eyed myself just watching the videos. That was about the best one I found.

Please give her my warmest congratulations and a very big hug.

Congratulations to both of you. I remember my father, a US citizen, had a letter signed by the president of the USA, permitting him to join the armed forces of a foreign power and retain his US citizenship. It was so he could join the Home Guard unit at the explosives factory where he worked in the UK.:p All his kids are subjects though, except one who married a Yank and took US citizenship.

TT

Congratulations to the missus BandAide! What Davaar said. :ok:

BandAide:

Congratulations to you and the little lady. Make sure she's got the voter card by Nov. 2!

Quote:
I'll remind my new American she is no longer a subject as we venture into the Commonwealth,


The originator of the above quote seems to have deleted it from their post but just to be clear the term "British Subject" ceased to be used for citizens of any country within the Commonwealth and indeed the United Kingdom itself in 1983. Since then we have been citizens, plain and simple.

Anyway that said, congratulations to Mrs Band Aide.

I proudly took the oath ten years ago after nine with a "Green card". My motivations were the desire to vote - as one does frequently at City, State & Federal level - and to affirm my primary alliegance (no disrespect, Your Majesty..)

I travel with both passports which means that in the event of a hijack I'm doubly screwed - to be both British and American would doubtless have me first in the doorway....

To Mrs and Mr Bandaide

Long life, good luck and hell even some of either of these tunes...


_E9Nu8JinM0&feature


nnS9M03F-fA


Best Regards

NF

US citizenship does have considerable drawbacks as well.

1. The IRS (income tax) on your back for the rest of your life, even if you leave the country and work abroad permanently, once above a certain income level you pay. Also you have to file a return every year for the rest of your life.

2. You become a terrorist target. There haven't been too many terrorist incidents in which people from Vanuatu, Lesotho, Iceland or Lichtenstein have been specifically targeted.

3. Bureaucracy, dealing with the INS to get her citizenship would have been frustrating. They're not the nicest of people to deal with.

4. The country is up to it's eyes in trillions of dollars of debt and unfunded future social security obligations. see note 1

5. Increasingly becoming a police state. The US has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. In 2008, over 7.3 million people were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole at the end of the year. 3.2% of all U.S. adult residents or 1 in every 31 adults.

Unfortunately most of the western world are going the same way. A lot of the above would apply to Britain, France, Canada, Australia etc to some degree.

Metro, now THAT is how to piss on a parade... ;)

Nevertheless, congrats to Ms BandAide! A lot of native-born Americans forget (or simply don't know) just what it means to be a citizen of our nation. We fly our flag every day, and are very proud of our country and the people who serve and fight for it.

God Bless America!

Soul Man

America is like a flute, it has many tones.

God bless her for that.

rgczlrYM4eI

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Yet thousands, hundreds of thousands, of people flock here and many risk their lives to come and become Americans. Kinda negates your argument Metro man.

Not really, for someone living under a tarpaulin in a refugee camp in Southern Sudan US citizenship would be a dream come true, as would citizenship of most western countries.

I am thinking of people from developed countries, who have money, skills and other options. There are drawbacks in having a US passport. Ask someone who was drafted to fight in Vietnam, someone who fell foul of the IRS or someone who got caught up in the justice system what they think.

An small but increasing number of people are choosing to renounce US citizenship. Taxes Cause U.S. Citizens to Renounce Citizenship in Record Numbers – International Living (http://internationalliving.com/2010/04/22-renounce-citizenship/)

MetroMan,

My wife, a French citizen, is looking forward to her U.S. citizenship ceremony next year.

Count her among the many from "developed" countries who is proud and thankful to call the U.S. home, where she is treated better by the average person here, than she is when she returns to France.

To each his/her own. That's the beauty of it.

It cuts both ways I guess. God bless my ex wife and my (er I mean her) bank account in SA. Both her neighbours are Americans (Cape Town South Africa). Damned nice people they are too.

Metro.....are you by chance an expat living in Asia?

With an ATPL....which usually connotes CAA ATPL....some of us would assume that to be the case thus giving rise to the question why you are not back at home enjoying the blessings of all that comes from residing, working, at home, and paying taxes to the Inland Revenue Service provides.

Or did I assume wrong here?

Metro.....are you by chance an expat living in Asia?

Absolutely, but becoming more of a local as I settle in.

With an ATPL....which usually connotes CAA ATPL

Not necessarily, most countries use the term ATPL rather than ATP.

why you are not back at home enjoying the blessings of all that comes from residing, working, at home

Better career opportunities, higher pay, lower taxes and a nice lifestyle. I looked at the numbers and I'm better off here.

If you find that taking out US citizenship results in a nett gain for you then go for it. Each individual is different, Rupert Murdoch (media magnate) became a US citizen in order to expand his business empire. Obviously he would have done his homework carefully and found he would be better off.

As usual it's the middle ground that gets squeezed. If your not poor enough to gain from the system, nor rich enough to be part of it, then why stick around ?

An American expat earning US$150 000/year will still be paying a substantial amount of that money in US income tax, even if he hasn't been home in five years and has no intention of ever returning. He would be better off renouncing and taking up citizenship from a country which doesn't tax it's nationals abroad, Ireland for example.

So you do advocate immigration for folks that care to do so for whatever reason then.....interesting!

Yet....you do not consider taking up citizenship as part of the deal.

You prefer to take the "good" from your adopted home.....do you give back anything in return?

Does it owe you any allegiance....and do you in return owe it any? If times get hard there....or if it were be attacked by an enemy of some sort....what would you do? Stand with your neighbors or do a runner for "home"?

Still paying taxes and filing tax returns of some sort to your home country?

There is far more to taking up Citizenship than merely residing in some locale.

I admire those that make the jump....no matter which direction they go when they renounce their allegiance to a previous country and take up their new citizenship.

We all have our reasons for what we do.....but so long as in the case of those who take up being an "American"....do so completely and with out any conflicting thoughts of where their allegiance lies....fair dinkum. So long as that only allegiance is with their new home....the United States to the exclusion of all others.

You giving any thought to seeking citizenship where you seem to be so happy now?

Can you 'renounce' one's citizenship of one's country of birth without becoming an official citizen of another - or would that result in an inability to acquire a passport?
Of course, if you never wished to leave wherever you have settled then that needn't be a problem.

So you do advocate immigration for folks that care to do so for whatever reason then.....interesting!

The free movement of productive people shouldn't be hindered. Provided the receiving country and the immigrant both gain from the move it's a winning situation all round. Immigrants may be temporary workers doing jobs which the locals don't want and sending money home. They could be higher skilled and filling a position which a qualified local can't be found for, or they could be settlers intending to assimilate and make a new life. As long as both parties are happy with, and understand the expectations and level of commitment the other requires.

For a guest worker it could be as simple as "I obey the law, pay my tax and leave on the due date, you give me the contracted conditions and provide a safe environment while I'm here."

A new citizen may be expected to defend the country and enjoy protections and benefits in return.

You prefer to take the "good" from your adopted home.....do you give back anything in return?

Yes, I do a skilled job which there aren't enough locals qualified for. This has an economic benefit to the country. I pay income tax, sales tax, car tax, property tax, and contribute to government health and retirement programs.

Does it owe you any allegiance...and do you in return owe it any?

Limited on both sides at the moment.

If times get hard there....or if it were be attacked by an enemy of some sort....what would you do? Stand with your neighbors or do a runner for "home"?

Not having had any military training and being unable to keep up with guys 20-25 years younger than me I would be more of a hindrance than an asset if the chips were down.;)

Still paying taxes and filing tax returns of some sort to your home country?

Unfortunately yes, every cent of which I resent paying.:mad:


You giving any thought to seeking citizenship where you seem to be so happy now?

Definitely considering it.:ok:

I've been a dual UK/US citizen for 3 years now and the oddest thing happened on my most recent trip this month. I came into LAX from LHR, get to immigration and give the guy my US passport. He swipes it, looks at it and says to me "And what is your citizenship?".

I quickly said US and he handed it back and said welcome home, but I wondered if he was trying to catch me out, that I might say UK. And even if I did, it's no matter to him, I'm a US citizen travelling on a US passport.

I live close to the Mexican border, my ceremony was me and 28 Mexicans. The officer in charge was quite excited to have a European, told me I was their second in two months. Presiding judge told us what great opportunities we had now that we were citizens of a first world nation - take that Britain! :)

Congrats to Mrs BandAide!

I've been a dual UK/US citizen for 3 years now and the oddest thing happened on my most recent trip this month. I came into LAX from LHR, get to immigration and give the guy my US passport. He swipes it, looks at it and says to me "And what is your citizenship?".


"US!"....?

Not a fan of Teddy Roosevelt then I take it?

Read up on Teddy's speech and views on Americanism to understand my response.


(For the Mods.....I would make exactly the same comment if he were Sengali, Icelandic,Yemeni or Croat or any one of the world's hundreds of nationalities!)

In the 90s I flew with a Captain on American trans air who had both a US and a EU passport and he was most certainly over 18!!!!

Can you 'renounce' one's citizenship of one's country of birth without becoming an official citizen of another

Generally no, as that would leave you stateless. The country of which you are renouncing citizenship would usually need to see that you are obtaining citizenship of another country first.

Thought I'd throw out a few pics from the swearing in, along with some redneck Americana on the same flickr page. Feel free to ignore.

My mom was there, too. At 92 years old, she wouldn't have missed it for the world.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockotaco

Plenty of Saffers will be washing up on US and Oz shores in leaky boats in a few years once things there have reached their conclusion.

Plenty of Saffers will be washing up on US and Oz shores in leaky boats in a few years once things there have reached their conclusion.

We should be running an airlift even now.

Welcome aboard Mrs. BandAide,

We're not much to look at, but we got a darlin' piece o' property. :)

bugg smasher:

We're not too much to look at? I beg to differ. Not when we have this to show for ourselves:

http://blog.movieposterseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Megan-Fox.jpg

We're not too much to look at? I beg to differ.

RGB

And to think I thought you were a bloke....! :p

Oh I see what you mean. :\

Namib:

Yes, I'm a "bloke". (Which, I'll surmise means guy in American Spanglish)

On the other hand, if I looked like her (thus being of the female gender) I certainly would not be sitting here writing posts on PPRuNe, now would I?!!! :ok::ok:

Congratulations! The icing on the cake......and it is sooooooooooo
sweet!

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1942/12014112/21556821/391210418.jpg

It seems that for some Aussie citizens life is a little like the Hotel California...

Crocodile Dundee prevented from leaving Australia over tax bill - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7964902/Crocodile-Dundee-prevented-from-leaving-Australia-over-tax-bill.html)

The Australian (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/) Taxation Office (ATO) served US-based Hogan with a departure prohibition order when he returned to Sydney last Friday for the funeral of his 101-year-old mother Florence, his lawyer Andrew Robinson said in a statement.

This prevents the 70-year-old actor from leaving Australia until any alleged tax debts are paid or arrangements made for the tax liability to be discharged.

The tangled skein of taxes lies more deeply imbedded in the fabric of flags than simple threads like mere patriotism.

Yes, I'm a "bloke". (Which, I'll surmise means guy in American Spanglish


Always surprising when you discover a term in common use here is not much used over the other side (and vice versa of course). A correspondent in the US recently queried my use of the word "dear" and asked me to confirm it meant "expensive". Maybe the US citizenship process could include a section on US English for would-be Brit immigrants!

Tanker:

My ex is a Brit. (Still holds a British passport and will not give up her citizenship.)

I learned many "interesting" terms from her over the years we were together.

For example, I learned that a fanny pack has a completely different meaning over yonder than it does here.

And the first time I heard someone say something similar to "blowing a fag" I was
mortified.

"Ring you up" also has a different meaning across the shores.

And I also learned, much to my embarrassment, that Leicester Square is pronounced like Lester and not like Lie-cester.

And the most funny word I heard was the pronunciation of buoy. We pronounce that word like 'boo-ee" whilst "you people" pronounce it as "boy"
So the first time, many moons ago, when my ex took me to the Lake District and said: "Look at the boy floating on the lake" I was equally aghast.

Both our countries may speak English but in certain aspects we are worlds apart!!! :ok:

actually, I think 'fanny pack' has the same exact meaning on both sides:}:}:}



sorry,

congratulation to the new American:D