Pointless discussion for the cruise

[Pontius's Copilot]

There you are at FL370, fed and watered, with a couple of hours to go to ToD when a flying insect wakes itself up and gets airborne from somewhere forward of the pedals ...

Does this creature contribute to the all-up weight of the aircraft whilst it is flying (within the aircraft), or only when it alights on something?

[18-Wheeler]

Yes.
(10ch)

[TopBunk]

Of course it counts, just as the weight of the air on board the aircraft counts (about 1 tonne on a B747 iirc).

You must have short cruise segments if that keeps you occupied:p

[Field In Sight]

They did the experiment on Mythbusters but using birds flying around inside a truck.

When the birds were flying they imparted the downforce on the air that pushed down on the truck, so there was no change in weight.

FIS

[Checkboard]

I you're bored in the cruise, you can always try a bit of Autopilot kerplunk :ok:

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/360003-few-flying-stories.html#post4683919

[bookworm]

You must have short cruise segments if that keeps you occupied

True enough, the physics need not take long. But for the rest of the segment you could discuss whether your observation implies that the following is a really bad definition of an 'aircraft'. :)

‘aircraft’ means any machine that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface.

[Biggles78]

I wonder if the answer turns out to be 42? :ouch:

[EW73]

So...the Wright Bros machine that flew all that time ago wasn't actually an aircraft at all...since the entire flight was done in ground effect!

:{

[Slasher]

1. Your flying around with 300 POB. Suddenley a pax dies of a heart attack. Are you required to then revise your POB to 299?

2. Enroute over a ocean ETOPS with a full pax load. A woman gives birth prematurly on board. Paxing doctor says the tiny kid is alive and doing well and can easiley withstand the remaining 3 hours to destination. But the additional baby now exceeds the number of child life vests and cots available. Nearest airport is 2 hours from PPOS off track. Continue or divert?

3. Through a series of personal misfortunes a fit and strong pax is on top of the wing of a heavy departing 747. He lies head down and holds on to the vortex generators for dear life during the take-off. V2 is 170kt, enroute climb 320kt to FL310. He will either fall off the wing from increasing airspeed or die from cold and lack of oxygen (and then fall off). Which will occur first?

4. Enroute over the ocean with 6 hours to go. Using only 3 HF calls how do you start World War III?

[error_401]

1. Is it inherently dangerous to have a flying insect in the cockpit at FL350?

2. Shall we order F/A to cockpit with insect spray. Don oxy masks and give it a go with the spray.

3. What are the implications of spraying insect spray in the cockpit with all gizmos on? Fire? Smoke?

4. How fast will the fits from a Malaria fever set in? Could it incapacitate the cockpit crew?

5. What family of insect? Precise name in latin?

6. Shall we make a speech and look if a biologist specializing in insects is on board?

:}

[ChristiaanJ]

1. You're flying around with 300 POB. Suddenley a pax dies of a heart attack. Are you required to then revise your POB to 299?Nice one...
What does 'POB' formally stand for? "People on board"?
If so, it doesn't say whether they are alive or dead, so your POB remains at 300.

Leads to another question... if you have a coffin in the hold with a body being repatriated for burial, do you have to include that in the 'POB' count?

And if you use that other quaint term 'SOB' ("Souls on Board"), what happens to the soul when the pax dies? Can you be sure it's left the aircraft? Or might it hang on to stay near to the body and not leave until later?

CJ

[zedoscarro]

Leads to another question... if you have a coffin in the hold with a body being repatriated for burial, do you have to include that in the 'POB' count?
Yes. The reason for this is in case of accident, you'll also find the body of the coffin


4. Enroute over the ocean with 6 hours to go. Using only 3 HF calls how do you start World War III?

I got curious now...

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you want to pursue a really pointless discussion you could always talk about the chances that the job of flying airplanes will ever return to it's former glory :{

[bfisk]

To make the judicial bits easier, the heart attack guy will continue to live until you land. Then he is pronounced. Makes everything a lot easier.

[Loose rivets]

g-u-y, pronounced guy. He probably walked with a l-i-m-p, pronounced limp.


Sorry Spike.

This thread is getting silly . . . you'll be really welcome down in Jet Blast.

[18-Wheeler]

1. Your flying around with 300 POB. Suddenley a pax dies of a heart attack. Are you required to then revise your POB to 299?

2. Enroute over a ocean ETOPS with a full pax load. A woman gives birth prematurly on board. Paxing doctor says the tiny kid is alive and doing well and can easiley withstand the remaining 3 hours to destination. But the additional baby now exceeds the number of child life vests and cots available. Nearest airport is 2 hours from PPOS off track. Continue or divert?

3. Through a series of personal misfortunes a fit and strong pax is on top of the wing of a heavy departing 747. He lies head down and holds on to the vortex generators for dear life during the take-off. V2 is 170kt, enroute climb 320kt to FL310. He will either fall off the wing from increasing airspeed or die from cold and lack of oxygen (and then fall off). Which will occur first?

4. Enroute over the ocean with 6 hours to go. Using only 3 HF calls how do you start World War III?


Excellent! Love your work. :)

Another good one ...
You're right on maximum ramp weight for departure - should you allow the extra ground crew on board and thus exceed max ramp weight?

[ChristiaanJ]

You're right on maximum ramp weight for departure - should you allow the extra ground crew on board and thus exceed max ramp weight?Of course not.
Enough of that "extra ground crew" in the back cabin, and you'll find yourself with a tailsitter.

CJ

[Nick Thomas]

In the 19th century some bright spark set out to prove that the soul existed. So he weighed people just about to die and then immediatley after and found that their weight fell by a quarter of an ounce! Therefore in the case of the cardiac death should you reduce the ZFW to allow for this weight loss?
Regards
Nick

[Loose rivets]

I seem to remember that the experimental results were declared void by the finding that their underpants had increased in weight.

[compressor stall]

A related topic (about the insects in the cockpit) from a while ago.

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/110215-highly-technical-aerodynamic-question.html

[Pontius's Copilot]

Further to the above, here's my answers ...
- Short sectors? Yes, average about 1h10 on the Co. network, and that's how I like it.
- And the word is ... Ommmm! (The Moody Blues, 1968)
Slasher
- I reckon we still have 300 POB, but only 299 souls - since one has departed.
- Continue.
- When his fingers freeze solid and the form drag of his body exceeds the tensile strength of his finger tissue he will self-offload.
- I'm thinking about it. Perhaps with a N Korean accent and some direct-dial hotline numbers?
e_401
- To the insect, the humans or the aircraft?
- We might make it one very angry insect.
- Dunno, what does butane do to electronics?
- Anytime from 6 days after the bite. Not a problem on my 1h10 sectors!!
- Symptoms ... anything from mild flu-like indications to Free Firm One-way to the Pearly Gates.
- Malaria parasites: Plasmodium falciparum, Plasmodium vivax, Plasmodium ovale, Plasmodium malariae.
- Can do (after dinner of course), but you'd need to catch or kill the beastie first, then he may be able to tell you what you're going to die of.

[Aviophage]

If you ever get bored, you could always go through the AF447 thread on this forum and laugh at every individual post?

And yes is the answer to your question.

[Runaround Valve]

Re item #3 of your post, there are no vortex generators fitted to any Boeing B747.