Cirrus 4 sale

[VH-XXX]

Does anyone know if this aircraft is / was SLS that went for a swim last year re Hamilton Island?

http://aviationadvertiser.com.au/classifieds/images/1330_2010070047.png

[Jabawocky]

I doubt it......Well I seriously hope not!:uhoh:

Allegedly it sank during the towing so it may be a fish playground now.

Anybody know what killed the Conty? I believe it may have been another JetA v Piston Engine battle, of which the engines seem to lose!

J:ok:

[VH-XXX]

The rego being blotted out did make me wonder, plus it has all the same options etc. They are repairable after chute deployment hence my question.

[Clearedtoreenter]

Does anyone know if this aircraft is / was SLS that went for a swim last year re Hamilton Island?


Unlikely. I think that particular boat (fuselage only?) was advertised on Barnstormers a few months ago. Looked like it was being parted out.

[rioncentu]

With some of the cheap prices on used cirii in the trader lately you have to wonder if they have all been for a swim.

Lovely plane to fly but man they depreciate faster than they cruise!!

[VH-XXX]

They have sold quite a few though, there's a fair number on the register so buyers are happy to keep on losing money. Nice to drive, that's a given, just costly.

[Skynews]

How much for something like that?
How fast and what's the fuel consumption?
Last one, how much fuel does it hold, and what sort of payload with max fuel.

[VH-XXX]

The SR22 will indicate around 165-170 at 80% power at 1,000ft amsl for the naturally aspirated model. It's 315hp so near 60 lph. Payload and other stats on their website, depends on model. From experience the SR22 flies like a dream at MAUW.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

..........with a steadily increasing kill rate!

Dr :8

[CirrusSR22T]

I can confirm that this aircraft is not VH SLS, It is a SR22, VH SLS was a SR22 TURBO.

The reason rego marks are photoshopped out when advertised is "some buyers will contact owners direct" :ugh: instead of dealing with the company who has been contracted to sell the aircraft.

[VH-XXX]

It "was" a Turbo, until it blew off :D

[Jabawocky]

So SR22T...chances are you know what caused the Turbo to go for a swim.....wanna put all the speculation down? :)

[VH-XXX]

Proably not the place for this question...... however how many aircraft out there are turbo "normalised?"

I note that some Cirrus aircraft are Turbo Normalised.

This seems like a clever idea for power delivery at altitude but won't stress the engine any more than at sea level.

I wonder why this idea hasn't taken off more frequently (so to speak).

[Jack Ranga]

The SR22 will indicate around 165-170 at 80% power at 1,000ft amsl for the naturally aspirated model. It's 315hp so near 60 lph.

315 horse and it only indicates 165-170? Ripped off!

260 horse and I'll get 170-175 and half the price of a Cirrus :ok:

[mates rates]

Jack
is that with the wheels down?

[UnderneathTheRadar]

is that with the wheels down?

Down and welded.....or should that be down and glued for a Cirrus?

[Jabawocky]

260 horse and I'll get 170-175 and half the price of a Cirrus :ok:

and

Jack
is that with the wheels down?

Well I will get around 180 at 260 Horses, and 170-175 at 75% power in the cruise....gear down and bolted! :ok: :}

Ranga....you got a Comanche 260 or an RV10? :ok:

[Jack Ranga]

Mates Rates,

Gear is welded down :) Not bullsh!tting you :ok:

Jabawocky, RV10 ;)

[BEACH KING]

Two blokes with poofta planes on the same forum. What are the chances..I ask ya...

[Jabawocky]

Hey thats a bit harsh! :{

[Wally Mk2]

Careful there 'BK" you might get a lovely birthday card from these guys with their phone No's & a photo of their pride & joy with comments like that:}

I'd love to know what the criteria is/was for the pulling of the chute! Apart from the obvious! This might sound like a silly Q but can the chute that was deployed in the last effort to stay alive after engine failure be cut loose just in case you where fumbling around down at floor level in the cockpit getting ready to kiss yr ass goodbye when you discovered that the fuel tap was truned off!!!!:E


Wmk2

[rioncentu]

Wally

No the chute is a one way option. Unless you fancy opening the doors and clamering around outside with a knife !


I flew one for 20 odd hours on a family trip with the rugrats in the back. No way I was pulling the safety pin out (as required in the preflight).

I had visions of the kids getting bored and fiddling around with the lovely velcro covered thing in the roof :uhoh::uhoh:

[Jabawocky]

Hey Dad.......whats this do? :eek:

[CirrusSR22T]

Hi Wally MK2,

The most common and obvious reasons for chute deployment are - severe icing resulting in loss of control, Pilot incapacitation,Mid Air collision, Engine failure over Tiger Country or rough water (as the case was with VH SLS), Engine failure over dense pop area.

If your ever in Duluth MN, they have a Sim with CAPS and put you through a variety of situations were you decide to pull or not to pull ! :sad:

At last count 25 CAPS deployments in Cirrus aircraft world wide and 40 odd lives saved. just under 6000 SR airframes now around the world.

[Ixixly]

Hey CirrusSR22T, do you happen to have any combined airframe time over those 6000 airframes information? and/or total flights undertaken by SR22s?

[CirrusSR22T]

4,000,000 hrs over the fleet, not sure of actual flights, I would take a guess that the average flight would be 2 hrs.

[Ixixly]

hahaha, fair enough mate, fair enough

[PA39]

You can't be Cirrius?? sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Jabawocky]

At last count 25 CAPS deployments in Cirrus aircraft world wide and 40 odd lives saved. just under 6000 SR airframes now around the world.

Just curious.........

Of the 25 CAPS deployed and "alleged 40 lives saved" how many have been analysed to see if the deployment was made when maybe it was more prudent to make a forced landing in a survivable place? Has this been considered?

IMC over the Rocky's and nowhere to go is a fair bit different to say aout around Dalby Qld with SCT at 4000'.

And what made the SLS stop?

[CirrusSR22T]

Jaba,

If the noise stopped and I had a nice field within gliding distance, I would be flying it all the way to the ground, It (caps pull) should be treated as a last resort.
Some of the lives saved can be directly credited to CAPS, ie Pilot had a fatal aneurysm on climbout and his young teenage son pulled the chute.
COPA.org do a fair bit of "after the fact" reports on this actual subject!

What caused SLS ? come and have a brew at BAF and will discuss :ok:

[Jabawocky]

Glad to here the deployments are mostly warranted.

As for BAF....I try to avoid the place at all costs!:}

Maybe next time KLC comes to visit I might come over and see Keith....mind you he does not partake so I will have his share!:E

Cheers
J

[Wally Mk2]

That would be bloody scary pulling that chute.I guess once done so the airframe then belongs to the insurance Co & yr just going along for the ride/experience!:}

Jaba would you not say that the Dr:8 should have one of them in his Bo? In fact knowing him he should have 1/2 doz like everything else in that flying test bed!:}
Also Jaba am gunna send you a pix via Mob Ph if you could post it for me on PPRUNE where appropriate I'd appreciate it as I can't seem to get it to work here.The Dr:8 will love it!:}

"SR22T" is it a mandatory thing to remove the safety pin of this chute thingy prior to flight? As another said here he left that pin in place & I reckon for good reason in his case:)
Can't imagine what it would be like having to decide to pull the cord............scarier than where to crash:}

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

..........with a steadily increasing kill rate!


Why's that?
Don't think I've heard of any fatalities in Oz so far?

They definitely have a better survival rate than bonzas anyway.....:E:}

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Cirri appear to have a stall/spin problem.

The chute won't save you from that!

Dr :8

[rioncentu]

Wal

In theory the pin should be pulled before flight to "arm" the caps.

But having shown swmbo how to remove the pin (which takes 2 seconds) I was confident the risks of leaving the pin in were low.

Better than an inadvertent pull!!

I do think the caps or more generic brs us a great marketing tool but Also a great option.

After all when the poo hits the fan, another option is handy to have.

[Wally Mk2]

okay one last Q........can this 'last resort' be deployed at VNE?.Might have the 99% of the plane going down like a missile with the roof section floating down like a leaf!:) Must go & have a read on this system& the pro's & cons of it (if any)


Wmk2

[Jabawocky]

You should get one installed on that dual kero burner B200 Wally.....ya never know;)

Or maybe on that Airbus thingy too!:ooh:

[rioncentu]

If I recall correctly there is a max speed and minimum height set out in the poh.

The max speed us nowhere near vne so yes you should slow it down. Sr22 will answer but it maybe around 130 knots from memory?

They point out that if the fan is really poo covered, pull the damn thing anyway and hope for the best!

[mates rates]

There are a lot of questions being asked here and opinions been given and miss information told.If your interested in flying the cirrus or finding out the philosophy of operating the aircraft and how and when to use the chute go and do the cirrus training with the cirrus distributor Sunland Aviation in Brisbane.

[Jabawocky]

I have a pretty good bet on the fact Sunland Aviation are well represented on this thread already and has been offering some good advice and information.

What do you reckon SR22T? :ok:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Cirri appear to have a stall/spin problem.

The chute won't save you from that!

Crap.

YouTube - BRS Emergency Parachute test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAwET3Q9Og4)

Actually any aircraft that is unable to recover from this condition doesn't get certified, hence the chute actually does save you from that. QED.

Bo's also stall and spin. It was actually a serious question. How many fatalities are included in the "steadily increasing kill rate", as you so dramatically put it?

[Wally Mk2]

.............now now 'jaba' why would I want a chute in a safe aeroplane in the first place?:) The way I figure it is if I pass out whilst airborne then I won't feel/know anything anyway & the rest are screwed either way:}
As for the Airbus? Well me 'tinks that if that airframe got down to mechanical law yr essentially screwed as well & any chute would only take you to yr demise a little slower:}
"MR" I don't think anyone needs to go to those lengths to find out about the toy plane Cirrus. It's juts another plane & if anyone was that serious other than being curious ( as I am) to want one then some proper learning would be in order well beyond these few pages:ok:


Wmk2, looking to get a boat license down here!!!!:{ Somebody please turn off the water up above!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Actually any aircraft that is unable to recover from this condition doesn't get certified, hence the chute actually does save you from that.


OK, stall/spin a Cirri turning onto final appr at 500' - then pull the chute!

See how you get on.:E

Dr :8

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Probably about as well as you would having done it in a Bonanza.:8
Point being????

Still waiting for an answer on your fatality statistics. :cool:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

1 in approximately every 130 Cirrus planes have crashed killing at least 1 person on board. That’s a sobering statistic. 1 in 130.


:E


With about 1.44 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours during their lifetime, the Cirrus planes are slightly higher (but statistically insignificant) than the average Single-Engine piston, which stands at 1.41.


:E


The big problem is that you’d expect that Cirrus planes would definitely stand out and have a signifcantly lower fatal accident rate. After all, the Cirrus planes have a lot going for them:

Significantly newer fleet compared to average age of GA planes
CAPS Safety System (parachute)
Modern Design for Safety and Control
State of the Art Avionics

:E


The combination of novice pilots and a fast airplane resulted in a mournful accident record that was reflected in high insurance rates and recurrent training requirements similar to what you'd find on a twin-engine plane or pressurized single.


:E


Still waiting for an answer on your fatality statistics.


Statistics? Yes, that is a whole other story, isn't it?
A clever statistician can make the data say whatever he desires!

5% of the the entire Concorde fleet have crashed! That is horrendous - perhaps only surpased by the Space Shuttle fleet where 40% of the fleet has been lost - in only 100+ flights!

:E

PS: Interestingly Retard Vehicles have a very good safety record - but don't tell Jaba!

[StallsandSpins]

I remember reading an article that said the safety statistics associated with these were due to overconfident inexperienced pilots charging off into conditions they otherwise might have had the good sense to avoid, safe in the knowledge they can pull the big red handle if things get too hairy. :\

That said i can see a lot of value in recovery chutes for GA.....provided the pilot has spent some time in an aircraft not equipped with them.:ok:

are there any other certified aircraft with recovery chutes?

What are Cirrus made out of? is it Fibreglass or Carbon fibre? I Imagine that they should survive a dunk in the water pretty well provided they werent damaged to badly on the initial impact. Structure that is, not engine or avionics.

[Biggles78]

Do you get to join the Caterpillar Club if you have to deploy the sunshade?

[Jack Ranga]

Two blokes with poofta planes on the same forum. What are the chances..I ask ya...


Never met the bloke..........I swear :}

[VH-XXX]

+1 for BRS systems after last nights stunt plane crash where the wing fell off.

I can't see any major issues in this thread, it seems moderately factual. That's the trouble when the distributors and or agents get involved in threads.

[CirrusSR22T]

WallyMK2 - 'Caps pin removed' is the first checklist item,

FTDK - The cirrus has an extremly docile stall characteristics due to its 'cuffed wing'
The inside part of the wing is at a greater angle of incidence than the outer section, hence the inner part stalls first and the outside section keeps flying. I have personnaly done climbing, turning power on stalls, 45 to 60 degree turn stalls and and still no wing drop or spin develops. This feature was speciffcally designed for the " 500ft turning final, letting to much speed wash off situation". The chute deployment of VH SLS on 24/12/09 was done @ 440 ft AMSL. :eek:

Biggles - Yes you can apply to join the Caterpillar club after CAPS deployment.

VH XXX - will now go back into my dark hole and never post again ! lol :{

[Wally Mk2]

SR22T" don't go it's refreshing to have factual stuff posted here about a toy plane:}
The 'cuffed' wing you talk about is pretty common in a lot of A/C and is know an 'wash-out' where the outer part of the wing is presented to the airflow at a lower AoA rather than the inner part (depends which kindergarten you went to!) & gives the whole wing a 'twisted' appearance.:) The AC50 is a good Eg of wash-out you would swear the plane is bent!:)

I had a sticky beak inside one of those toy planes a while ago,too much fancy stuff in there for this old codger:ok: Looks slippery enuf, would be ballistic with the gear tucked away.
The closest thing I've operated made of fiberglass is my canoe, which I might add I will need very shortly if this damn rain don't stop !:{


Wmk2

[CirrusSR22T]

WMK2 - I'm only 35 and was like a 'blue heeler watching TV' the first 5hrs flying the perspective glass ! :confused:

[Jabawocky]

Forkie says the same thing flying the Retard Vehicle...... but for me ask me anything about whats going on and I can give you the answer almost without looking for it.

The human brain adapts to these things and after a while its as if you never knew any other way!

[Capn Bloggs]

Cirrus,
The inside part of the wing is at a greater angle of incidence than the outer section, hence the inner part stalls first and the outside section keeps flying. I have personnaly done climbing, turning power on stalls, 45 to 60 degree turn stalls and and still no wing drop or spin develops. This feature was speciffcally designed for the " 500ft turning final, letting to much speed wash off situation".
I'll second Wally. Washout is one of the most basic principles known to aviation and has been around for eons. :cool:

[CirrusSR22T]

Agreed :ok:, wasn't saying it was Cirrus who came up with the idea, (apoligies if it seemed that way) more to highlight the fact the Stall is very docile. As stated many aircraft have this feature, also the Cessna 350 & 400 Corvalis also have a 'cuffed' wing.

[VH-XXX]

I try to avoid flying the Cirrus in a way that will stall it and or cause the criteria for chute deployment to be met.

It's a good philosophy for any aircraft and has kept me alive thus far!

Not so much an issue in the 22, but if you heavily load a 20 and pulled off prematurely you could bring yourself to stall conditions very quickly, particularly on final if you let it drop below 70 knots.

(Don't go anywhere SR22T, you are most welcome here)

[Wally Mk2]

"22" I had a laugh at yr analogy of glass reading, woof woof:) I recently spent a little time in front of some 'bus' glass & when I went back to flying the old steam driven Beechy i thought God who put this round dial stuff all over the shop?:}
"XXX" true what you say but that goes for any A/C that's of similar high performance. I remember the C210 fully loaded on final if you where getting a little behind the drag curve it took a lot of horses to get back ahead of it. The PA31 is the perfect Eg of getting behind the drag curve 'cause being close to max weight on App you needed a LOT of Gee Gee's to not let it spoil yr day forever!
I would imagine slippery planes such as the Cirrus & to some extend the Mooney would be at times just the opposite. A little overshoot with a few extra kts thrown in for mum & the kids on final & watch the beast stay in ground effect 'till the rwy was no more!:)
Off thread a little here but worth a mention. Some years ago (many actually) up in TW there was a Mooney doing paper runs out to the boon docks when the pilot landed down wind on a grass strip (due commercial pressure probably) ................result? One busted plane after going thru a farm fence & a ditch, he said after wards he simply couldn't bet the damn thing slowed up! Did they not put spoilers on latter Mooney's?


Wmk2

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Statistics? Yes, that is a whole other story, isn't it?
A clever statistician can make the data say whatever he desires!


OK, stall/spin a Cirri turning onto final appr at 500' - then pull the chute!

Yup! Don't know of any aircraft that will have much of a chance of recovering from that.
Anyone?

If your skills are woefull enough to let the aircraft get to this state, you really shouldn't be flying.

I really was asking out of general interest on the accident figures. Don't think there have been any fatalities in Australia involving this aircraft. (Anyone??)

The distributors are really quite thorough in their post sales service, including 50 hrs of dual instruction on the type (I believe). Probably a different story when someone with more money than sense jumps into something like this straight out of a PPL with no familiarisation.

A little miffed as to why you seem so against (BRS) something that provides a final buffer against something such as a mid-air structural failure? Maybe Beech need to offer a retrofit STC?:E

[VH-XXX]

The distributors are really quite thorough in their post sales service, including 50 hrs of dual instruction on the type (I believe)

50??? 5 maybe.

[Howard Hughes]

You should get one installed on that dual kero burner B200 Wally.....ya never know
Of course you would need two on a B200! But lets not start the whole Twin BRS v's Single BRS BS...:}

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

A little miffed as to why you seem so against (BRS) something that provides a final buffer against something such as a mid-air structural failure? Maybe Beech need to offer a retrofit STC?


MIHC - Sorry mate! Just jerk'in ya chain! :E

Ya get a bit spoiled when you fly the finest light aircraft ever built!

Cirri may well be fine aircraft - I just don't like them!

Dr :8

PS: Don't see many Cirri in this part of the world. I hear they melt in the Nth Qld sun. :bored:

Would be a bit disconcerting to arrive back at the aerodrome to find your pride and joy is just a pile of gloop and bits of stuff! :eek:

[Jabawocky]

Howie!

Wher ya been hiding mate!

Went and saw your machine in Oregon..........its HUGE!!!!!:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

SAFETY ALERT

To: All Pilots Who Fly Cirrus Aircraft
From: Cirrus Aircraft & Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association (COPA)
Date: August 12, 2010

Re: Safety Stand-Down and Safe Flight Practices

Dear Fellow Cirrus Pilot,

An important part of our relationship with you is meaningful communication, especially around issues that are important to the entire Cirrus community. Several recent accidents involving Cirrus aircraft highlight the need for us to focus our collective attention on safe flight practices, particularly during the landing and go-around phases. Both Cirrus Aircraft and COPA urge you to carefully review this safety alert as well as the following suggestions:

First, we are asking each of you to review the basic information on how to manage your aircraft in all phases of flight. Please re-read your Pilot's Operating Handbook, Section 2, Limitations, Section 3 Emergency Procedures, and Section 4, Normal Procedures. Also, review Section 3, Standard Operating Procedures, of the Flight Operations Manual. Look for expanded guidance on normal operating procedures with special attention to approach stability, traffic patterns, landing procedures and go-around. Copies of these books are available online at the COPA website and through the Cirrus Connection store.

Second, we are requesting each and every one of you to conduct a currency flight. All company pilots for Cirrus Aircraft follow a structured safety program (in sales, training, and flight operations) – and our safety record shows that it works. We are requesting that all Cirrus pilots conduct a currency flight with a qualified Cirrus Training Center (CTC) or Cirrus Standardized Instructor Pilot (CSIP), regardless of your total PIC time, time-in- type, or years of successful flight. This is the best way for all pilots to identify and correct bad habits that may have slipped into our routines over time.

A specific syllabus for this recurrent training has been given to every CTC and CSIP. The 1.0 to 1.5 flight hours that you commit to this training event should improve your airspeed control, touchdown accuracy, approach stability, and most importantly, the overall safety of every flight. The training will also help develop your proficiency and comfort level with go-around and power off landings.

The recent incidents that prompted this Safety Alert have been discussed in various forums, including COPA, and many of the comments have focused upon improper landing speeds. Airspeed control is an important element of establishing a stabilized approach to land, which in turn plays a key role in the safety and quality of any landing. Therefore, it is critical that you understand the energy management of your aircraft to assure the proper speeds are used throughout the traffic pattern to achieve a safe and comfortable landing for you and your passengers.

Excerpts from the Flight Operations Manual describe the procedures and the speeds for normal landings can be found at the end of this email. Please take the time to review these procedures prior to your next Cirrus flight. Copies of the complete Flight Operations Manual are available online at the COPA website and through the Cirrus Connection store.
Further to this effort, we want to stress the importance of establishing a long-term commitment to maintaining safe flying habits. Both Cirrus Aircraft and COPA encourage a semi-annual program of recurrent training with a CTC or CSIP.

We also encourage you to attend a Cirrus Pilot Proficiency Program (CPPP) weekend event, held both in the US and Europe, to learn a wealth of Cirrus-specific knowledge and fly with some of the most experienced Cirrus instructors in the world. These events are centered around this very concept of staying proficient and avoiding the traps of complacency. Several CPPP events are currently scheduled (click for details):

Baden-Baden, Germany, Sep 10-12, 2010
Minneapolis, MN, USA, Sep 24-26, 2010
Southend-Westcliff, UK, Oct 8-10, 2010
Van Nuys, CA, USA, Oct 8-10, 2010

New events for 2011 will appear shortly. Visit http://www.cirruspilots.org (http://www.cirruspilots.org/) for more information.

If you know other Cirrus pilots in your area, we strongly encourage you to pass this important message on to them to participate in this important currency effort.

Safety is the highest priority at Cirrus and COPA, but safety is up to all of us. Let’s get out and enjoy flying while raising the safety bar even higher.


Interesting! :confused:

Dr :8

[Capn Bloggs]

regardless of your total PIC time, time-in- type, or years of successful flight.
That's you, Jaba. Do that Currency flight ASAP, will ya?!

Do the yanks have BFRs, or is that a stupid Australian idea?

[Jabawocky]

Bloggs....I took your advice seriously and got together a few buddies and we went and did some training.....video of the training follows

xE1rE2vxUyM

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Now that IS funny!

Dr :8

PS: ....but not all that different from me doing my CIR renewal this week!

[Capn Bloggs]

Capt Gilbert :D:D:D:D:D

[rioncentu]

Overthrusting !

That's gold !

[Wally Mk2]

A Command Instrument Rating in a SE PVT plane,now that's almost as funny as the above!:p
'Jaba' that Vid is too funny & not far from the truth in some ways:ok:


Wmk2

[Jabawocky]

A Command Instrument Rating in a SE PVT plane,now that's almost as funny as the above!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Whats that supposed to mean Wally? How else am I supposed to depart here in the morning, especially if this wx keeps up! Or is your subtle sense of humour not being appreciated?

[Wally Mk2]

...............geeeez jaba all the yanky doodle dandy food has ya been on has stunted yr SOH:).. The optimum word in my comment was/is "COMMAND" Would you hold a second class IR for SE PVT Ops & work yr way up to a CIR?:p


Wmk2