Leopard Moth and Miles Falcon going to dust at Lilydale?

[A37575]

Does anyone remember the DH Leopard Moth and Miles Falcon that used to be hangered at Point Cook many years ago? They belonged to Keith Hatfield who operated a flying school at Berwick many years ago. A few years back these two beautiful old aircraft were under cover (open hangar) at Riddels Creek aerodrome. Eventually they were flown to Lilydale where they are to this day. The owner of Lilydale aerodrome has been kind enough to have them at his aerodrome under cover from the elements

They have not been flown for several years as there is some concern about their airworthiness as they are wooden construction. Unnoticed by external inspection, severe damage occurs and it would take an expensive inspection to reveal the extent of delamination of components etc. I understand that someone does an engine run on these aircraft every six months or so.

It will be a great pity if these rare historical old aeroplanes just crumble behind hangar doors at Lilydale and that very few people know about them or see them. Does anyone know if there been any attempt by their owner to sell them to an enthusiast that could display them statically or even have them flying again? The RAAF Point Cook museum won't touch them because they have no military history. Yet surely that would be an ideal place to keep them under cover for public viewing.

[Frank Arouet]

Ring the Challinor Brothers at Murwillumbah. They will either know someone or be interested themselves.

Trade under the name Mothcare.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

If the Miles Falcon is VH-AAT then she be one of three still airworthy in the world.

[StallsandSpins]

Strange..............its the second time these aircraft have come up pprune.

they are privately owned aircraft that are currently hangered in a privately owned hangar. i can point vintage aircraft enthusiasts to aircraft of similar rarity that are stored in private hangars around the country.

They have not been flown for several years as there is some concern about their airworthiness as they are wooden construction

are you an engineer? have you inspected them recently have you?

Unnoticed by external inspection, severe damage occurs and it would take an expensive inspection to reveal the extent of delamination of components etc

which components would these be exactly?

It will be a great pity if these rare historical old aeroplanes just crumble behind hangar doors at Lilydale and that very few people know about them or see them.

lots of people know about and have seen these aircraft over the years. they are not crumbling behind closed doors. what about the three other vintage aircraft they share the hangar with, you seem to have no such concern for them.

The RAAF Point Cook museum won't touch them because they have no military history.

The falcon was impressed into service by the RAAF during the war. it even had a RAAF serial no ( i cant remember it off the top of my head)

Does anyone know if there been any attempt by their owner to sell them to an enthusiast

im sure there are lots of enthusiasts who would love to own them. yourself perhaps?.....

Ring the Challinor Brothers at Murwillumbah. They will either know someone or be interested themselves.


the owner of these aircraft has been good friends with challinor brothers for many years.

Michael Hatfield Stalls

[StallsandSpins]

AAT is she. one of three left in the world.

[chimbu warrior]

The Falcon was impressed into service by the RAAF during the war. it even had a RAAF serial no

It was A37-3, according to my records. :ok:

[tail wheel]

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Miles-Falcon-A37-3/ME_2A37_3.jpg

[StallsandSpins]

photo taken at Essendon airport open day. i have lots of photos to post.
but maybe for another thread.

[A37575]

Michael Hatfield Stalls

I must say, you seem awfully sensitive to a very normal question about two very nice old aeroplanes. Stop jumping at shadows and lighten up a little.

It would indeed be a pleasant surprise to see these aircraft grace the skies again over Melbourne- or even perhaps on one of the weekly displays at RAAF Base Point Cook. You are a private pilot aren't you and presumably with close association with their owner. Perhaps would you be game enough to fly them as is but I am sure only after a very close airframe inspection by an experienced LAME who knows his wood from metal:ok:.

[StallsandSpins]

i think i have just deduced who you are A37575. if so i apologise for my terse reply, but i couldnt help but be little offended by your thread title.:)

anyway you are correct i am a pilot and i know the owner very well. the aeroplanes are hangared safe and well and always have been.
they will fly again at some point when time permits.

They share a hanger with a beautifully restored desoutter and klemm eagle.

anyway If there is anyone who would like to see them or say g'day to their owner (It's Still the Same owner !:D) contact me and i'll see what i can arrange.

[Scion]

Don't know if they share a hanger with a B Klemm Eagle as it is in Sydney but they are two delightful aeroplanes.

The Falcon has a box spar and it has been promalgated by some who have but little sympathy for wood and fabric that this should be examined internally. This will destroy it's integrity so prospective purchasers will have that hoop to leap.

At least they are under cover and protected from the elements not like the B K Eagle that rotted at Bathurst VH-UUY some years ago.

Perhaps Col Hatfield will dispose of them to a good home or at least the next generation give them the loving care they need.

[StallsandSpins]

Don't know if they share a hanger with a B Klemm Eagle as it is in Sydney but they are two delightful aeroplanes.


I made a mistake and typed eagle in stead of swallow. UUL and AAT share a hangar with a Desoutter and a Pobjoy engined B Klemm Swallow which is under going restoration to airworthy condition. The Klemm Eagle VH UTI belongs to a collector in NSW called Roy Fox.

The Falcon has a box spar and it has been promalgated by some who have but little sympathy for wood and fabric that this should be examined internally. This will destroy it's integrity so prospective purchasers will have that hoop to leap.


As do the Klemm Eagle, Swallow and many other aircraft from that period. Lots of people with little knowledge or understanding of wood composite aircraft construction promulgate all sorts of myths and innuendos. :ugh: There are really very few LAMES in Australia who have much interest or understanding of these these type of aircraft. Any way i'd be much happier flying these aircraft than some of the 25 year old cessnas and pipers I have seen that pass for airworthy in recent years.:ok:

At least they are under cover and protected from the elements not like the B K Eagle that rotted at Bathurst VH-UUY some years ago.


That was around 1968 some 42 years ago. I believe that aircraft had a wheels up landing and had some damage. Unfortunately in those days little value was placed on these aircraft. And many owners were told by engineers who in many instances probably just couldn't be bothered working on them that the aircraft were rotted and unrepairable.

I met the former owner of VH ABT a miles falcon 6 at the Essendon Open day (pictured above). He took it for a hundred hourly around the late 60's and was told by the engineer that it had oil seeped in to the wood structure and that this was unrepairable and that he should destroy the aircraft rather than waste any more money on it. So he took the engine and some other bits out and set fire to it.:{

VH AAT would almost certainly have suffered a similar fate had the colonel not purchased it when he did. It had been left out and left to deteriorated by the previous owners. This resulted in the aircraft undergoing major restoration in which most of the wood structure was replaced and re glued.:ok:

[Scion]

There is some discussion with regard to older aeroplanes going on with CASA at present and from the latest AOPA mag they are involved with the discusion as well.

The problem is as was said that older aeroplanes such as this are not looped and sent into high G turns and tend to be used with care and preserved by pedantic owners who will do nothing to risk them.

So using a one size fits all solution will inevitably increase the costs to the extent that this part of GA will not continue.

The B Klemm Eagle has had to have recently an EO to cover the internals of the box spar, a three point harness EO to a wooden cross member.

All of these not only remove origionality but have limited addition to safety. I really would not mind if the safety was radically improved but it is not and breaking into the integrity of the box spar is potentially dangerous with humidity problems.

Is there any commen sense?

[Frank Arouet]

Although I support the concept of the 100 hourly/ annual inspection, and having owned an Auster, (among other things), I can't help but wonder if these aircraft would be better operated on the old "major inspection" every four years. The biggest problem I see is costs, given what used to be done as a matter of course at todays inflated rates.

Also, not many rag and wood people around any more.

Actually I have had 100 hourly's done that cost whatever the LAME thought was a good thing multiplied by 50% and had another 10% added for good measure.

Perhaps old aeroplanes need old maintenance structures, administered by old aeroplane organisations for old aeroplane owners.

Not one size fits all "ageing aircraft schedules" administered by CASA and helped along by "tin and plastic aeroplane" enthusiasts.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Not that many of 'the ole school' around these days Frank.

However, I wonder if one enquired 'hard enuf' - there may / may not be any of the old hands who would just 'like to do it' as a volunteer, just for the sheer pleasure of it, to keep these marvellous machines airworthy, as do the various other 'enthusiasts' who keep tourist railways etc running....

It would have to be 'signed off' by a LAME I realise - but - 'tis just a thought....

Cheers:ok:

[djpil]

Austers are fairly easy to inspect compared to something like the Falcon for which CASA's AD on wooden structures requires a very detailed inspection every three years.

[CHAIRMAN]

Which AD would that be djpil?

[Kabwum balus]

G'Day "B",

We flew together in AAT back in December 1996 from PCK for a photoshoot over the bay. Prior to that I also flew the Leopard Moth UUL on AHSA joyrides plus Dragon AGC on the same work, racing the traffic along Geelong Road into a stiff headwind.... the traffic won!

Colonel Hatfield was a lovely man and since he left us, is sorely missed by all.

May he rest in peace.:)

[djpil]

Which AD would that be djpil?AD/GENERAL/29 Wooden Aircraft - Airframe Structural Inspection