Posted 'Non Effective'

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

I have a friend who seems to have been 'posted non-effective' with indecent haste after (during) time off for a major operation.

She is most miffed that she has spent less time off than her pregnant colleague, but has been shafted.

She is now worried that she faces an unexpected posting, although my guess is that she shouldn't be worried just yet. But she seems to have been treated shabbily.

What hoops do the adults have to jump through to dump someone like this?

As I am unable to advise her, I am seeking opinions, anecdotes and advice before she maybe trots orf to the Chief Clerk.

[Herc-u-lease]

my input is only anecdotal I'm afraid. we had a person who was incapable of doing their job through lack of fitness, inability to do the work (trade gp1 fitter) and persistent malingering. said person was declared non-effective. IIRC this opened the door to get another bod in as well as said person to do the work.

from what you've said in the OP, it doesn't sound like your friend is a malingerer. my advice is she make an appt with the Chf Clk to [politely] ask what this means, both in terms of postings and SJAR/career impacts. assuming your friend is usually a good egg, any reasonable 1RO/2RO should be able to make a positive supporting comment on the O/SJAR. when i was downgraded following a serious accident, my 2RO commented on my attitude to fitness and determination to get upgraded so as not to adversely affect my career.

chf clk can give the definitive advice - don't be aggressive about it, be polite!

[Pontius Navigator]

I had a sgt who was off sick TFN and made it too difficult to operate with his post unfilled. He was eventually posted non-effective to Innsworth although I believe he continued to remain off-sick at home.

Basically you are either holding a post or you aren't. As the OPs post obviously needed to be filled she had to be moved. As no one want to accept someone who will be non-effective then she would have been posted as non-effective. It sounds like she has been left at her original unit and is indeed open to a posting elsewhere when she becomes fit.

[tucumseh]

One of these will be handy


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc291/exploringtheblue/recorder.jpg

[fabs]

See PMs...

[Pontius Navigator]

tuc, give us a clue, cattle prod?

[tucumseh]

Sound Recorder. Wise Rear Admiral he once say to me "If someone lies to you or shafts you, record all subsequent conversations". Good advice.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ah, I see, use it everytime you speak with your poster then.

[Yozzer]

IIRC they cannot post in a replacement whilst a PIC is occupied. The only example similar to this that I have heard of involved toxic leadership frankly lying and whipping up some spin that could be documented on a QR1027 to get an out-of-favour chap posted. He was out of favour because he would not bodge a procedure and held the rank to insist a job was done by the book. However he was not the top of the food chain and he was shafted royally by spineless leaders. It is easy for a posting requirement to be administrated and therefore the advice to record what you can is good 'sound'!! advice. I would add to it to create a diary of events logging even slightly related comments and keeping hard copy documents. Freedom of information (Data Protection) is there to be used and is processed by Cranwell via P1. Good P1 & OC PMS persons could become your best friends. If all else fails, the Service Complaints Commisioner in London, however I also know someone else who believes that she is good in principal but under-powered in practise.

[Kitbag]

To a degree it depends on who initiated the NE posting. It can be either the line manager, trying to get a replacement posted in, or the medics doing what they think is best. I had a person working for me posted NE to the unit PSF (the individual is TG1). After a period and with some intervention from the subjects LM the person was posted back into their original post.
Does your chum trust her LM? Can she speak to them? After that, as already suggested she should go to PSF and, if necessary, the medics to clarify/support her case. The critical point here I think is what loyalty the LM is willing to demonstrate to keep a good person on the team.
OTH if your chum is a waste of space and oxygen thief etc what would you do given a god sent opportunity?

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Thanks for the replies, and the two PM's

She's been off for 4 months but was expecting to return soon.

My intitial reaction was 'they can't do that!' to someone who is only temporarily downgraded. She is smart enough to take the Chf Clerk route, and we shall see what happens.

I was interested if anyone here had actually made someone non-effective, and therefore knew what guideline were in place before it could happen.

When I direct her to this thread, my advice at this stage is
1. See the Chf Clk.
2. Keep a diary.
3. Do stuff in writing from now onwards.
and for extra effect
4. Write a letter to the LM asking why you have been treated this way
4a. When the LM explains by interview - ask for it in writing!

I have sympathy for sections decimated by sick notery, pregnancy, OOA, sport billies, gate guard etc. I work on one (we all do). But this seems to me to be a failure in duty of care.

[Duncano]

I have enquired recently about making someone non-effective and was told only the Medical Officer's can start the process and it would normally be discussed at the Stn Welfare Meeting (which includes SMO, P1, Padre, SSAFA, etc) before being implemented. To date I haven't been able to instigate this process. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. :ugh:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

One hopes it will all be resolved to your friend's satisfaction, but if she gets shafted, she should sue - the MOD always cave in when challenged, and she'll win s**t loads of cash!

[Tilt&Gain]

Has your 'friend' spoken to her Desk Officer? He / she is the only person who can action (if not initiate) the NE status. There will be a good reason behind it. The NE status is used to ensure the individual remains parented while unable to fill a post for whatever reason. There is no 'stitching' or 'shafting' just a procedure that has to be followed while they are not productive.

Loving the crewroom experts though!

[taxydual]

Certainly keep the Chief Clerk option open.

In the '70's, the future, (first) Mrs Taxydual was 'warned' about a NE posting whilst recovering from being hit by a motor car in Doncaster.

The Chief Clerk was excellent and 'solved' all her worries.

I'm certain the fact that it was his son who was driving the car that hit her, had no bearing at all on the Chief Clerks' excellent service.

[P6 Driver]

I've had the misfortune to work with some who were quite "Non Effective", but without going through any formal procedure.

[Yozzer]

Loving the crewroom experts though!

If the 'system' was less underhand and a little more transparent, there would be no need for crewroom experts. The fact that the question was asked at all is testimoney to an inefficient (at best) or downright vindictive (at worst) situation in evidence. .....and perhaps the 'system' should take note of this.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Has your 'friend' spoken to her Desk Officer?

Last time I looked, speaking direct to a desk officer was a privelidge for Officers/SNCO's. She ain't either.

Yosser, nail right on the head.

The anomaly on this thread is she has been told to expect a posting, wheareas comments above indicate otherwise.

[Yozzer]

Not entirely certain, but understand that Project Apollo makes interaction between juniors and Manning easier come by. It may be through the Chief Clk or another nominated bluntie and not sure if it extends to direct access. Others here are sure to know.

[Kitbag]

Come on T&G, show us your expertise.

[HamishDylan]

As someone who has been posted non-effective after surgery in the last couple of years, I would like to reassure your friend that it can work out very much for the best for the Service Person. A lot depends on the medical staff and P staff liaison and how much interest the chain of command pays to the welfare of the SP. In the best circumstances, the SP is shielded from being pestered/blackmailed into returning to work before they are ready, and the postholder can ask for manpower assistance before the post has been empty for more than 3 months. Contrary to some opinions offered on this thread, only the medical staff can initiate Non Effective action, sending a recommendation to High Wycombe as a Medical Board Regrading for consideration and endorsement.

Of course, if there are other than medical factors involved, all options for posting skullduggery are open to the poster and chain of command. However, if the SP maintains a good liaison with the med staff, they are duty and honour bound to look after the whole person, and that includes fighting the case for them to stay on a station as they contine their recovery and return to work. In my case, the post holder got short term manning assistance from the outset and I returned to work on the same station when I was fit enough to return to work and start my rehabilitation. One of the downsides of being posted Non Effective is that one immediately becomes an invisible person - i.e. no contact at all from work and only a cursory occasional 'courtesy call' from SSAFA who were, as always from my experience, all assistance short of actual help....but that's another thread entirely.