Merged: Cessna Clips House in Melbourne [Archive]

Desert Flower

7th Aug 2010, 08:08

From the Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/)

Miracle escape as plane crashes in back yard near Moorabbin airport
A PLANE has crash landed in the back yard of a house next to Moorabbin airport.
A female pilot in her 20s and a male in his 60s were lucky to escape unharmed.

Police said the four-seater Cessna clipped the roof of a house and then crashed into another house at 240 Lower Dandenong Rd.

It caused extensive damage and brought down powerlines before coming to a stop in the backyard.

Police said it was lucky no one was home at the time.

The plane ran out of fuel before crash landing, according to a Metropolitan Fire Brigade spokesman.

Moorabbin airport is behind the house.

The pilot and her passenger were treated for shock on the scene. No one else was injured.

"Considering the fact that it's come down in a back yard in the middle of suburbia, it's really quite a lucky escape,'' a police spokesman said.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Police, paramedics and fire trucks are at the scene.

Rego is KKW - a 152 belonging to the RVAC.

DF.

CLEAROF

7th Aug 2010, 08:10

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2010/08/07/1225902/466172-cessna-crash.jpg

The plane ran out of fuel before crash landing, according to a Metropolitan Fire Brigade spokesman.

Miracle escape as plane crashes in back yard near Moorabbin airport | Adelaide Now (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/miracle-escape-as-plane-crashes-in-back-yard-near-moorabbin-airport/story-e6frea6u-1225902461121)

Back Pressure

7th Aug 2010, 08:25

Folks in the tower had a torrid time this arvo, what with this and the news choppers, the rescue plane, and then a Varieze with gear problems, as well as the hordes inbound from Carrum... Well done guys :ok:

Glad to see no-one hurt, so could have a chuckle at the comment from the firey "...before crash landing" - not much "landing" that I can see...

And yes, this is the same 152 that had a forced landing on the Capital golf course a few years back. IIRC that was fuel-related too...

Dangly Bits

7th Aug 2010, 09:44

Who's is it?

Car RAMROD

7th Aug 2010, 10:26

Yet another RVAC machine....

Same as the one that landed on Capital.

How are those 90-day checks working out?

Ah the memories from the previous thread on the RVAC prang at night into the trees short of the runway at MB not long ago. I'm waiting for the same negative response towards me!

ejet3

7th Aug 2010, 10:33

Rvac have had a few accident/incidents lately UPS the 150 at Coldstream the 150 that had that midair also i think they had a 1 land at the golf course and a piper that landed off the runway at MB

Looks like no fire so maybe no fuel? anyway good job they both walked away! :)

Squeaks

7th Aug 2010, 11:44

Both blades of the prop were completely undamaged in the images on Channel Nine tonight: seemed to indicate that the donk was certainly stopped at the time of impact, IMO.

Sunfish

7th Aug 2010, 12:37

Thank you all for your unhelpful posts. The pilot and passenger are relatively unscathed. No one on the ground was injured.

Would you all like to add your little cup of petrol to the "Close YMMB" thread?

Maybe it might be better to shut up until you know what has occurred?

Maybe you might even like to consider the thousand hours flown per incident numbers before commenting?

Didn't think so.

Most of you have no idea what is significant statistically and what is not.

Biggles78

7th Aug 2010, 12:43

Horatio Leafblower

7th Aug 2010, 12:53

Would you all like to add your little cup of petrol to the "Close YMMB" thread?

That horse has bolted, Sunfish. They needed the cups of petrol before the noise stopped! :E

Car RAMROD

7th Aug 2010, 15:29

Sunfish, what about the thousands of hours flown and lesser number of incidents/accidents by other MB schools?

RVAC seem to have had more prangs at MB & surrounds than anyone else in recent years. Don't hate me for stating the obvious; but I'm more than prepared for the barrage of negative replies from the people who take offence to hearing the truth (especially after the thread about the Warrior that went bush-bashing).

Obviously speculation, but I wonder if those 90-day checks didn't catch this one out?

HL, love it!
Back Pressure, MB tower are tops! :ok:

Glad everyone is ok, obviously.
Close MB? Hell no.

AirBumps

7th Aug 2010, 22:41

Maybe you might even like to consider the thousand hours flown per incident numbers before commenting?

There are some very big schools down at MB, flying lots and lots of hours. How do RVAC incident stats stack up against the others?

Perhaps they need to bring the 90 day check down to 30 days - that will fix it.

Ted D Bear

7th Aug 2010, 23:42

Wow - you can get a 152 into a backyard that small! :cool:

ejet3

8th Aug 2010, 02:35

Sunfish, what about the thousands of hours flown and lesser number of incidents/accidents by other MB schools?

Look at OAA most of us hate them BUT they have what 40-50 aircraft made up of c172, c182 and pa44 etc most if not all are flying all day ever day, and they haven't had the number of accidents or incidents Rvac have had over the years!

Casa should come down on RVAC it’s simply not good enough! if they did run out of fuel that wouldn’t have been the first time :=

PeterTG

8th Aug 2010, 03:56

Ummm - Carby heat???:E

prospector

8th Aug 2010, 04:04

" Wow - you can get a 152 into a backyard that small! "

That's the easy part, getting it out is what requires an inordinate amount of skill, probably by a swing wing driver.

remoak

8th Aug 2010, 07:10

Would you all like to add your little cup of petrol to the "Close YMMB" thread?

Maybe it might be better to shut up until you know what has occurred?

We do know what has occurred, an aircraft hit a house. WHY it occurred is irrelevant to the "close YMMB" crowd - the fact that it did is all they need.

gezza182

8th Aug 2010, 07:56

I think that is not a fair comparison. Sure OAA might have 40 - 50 aircraft flying every day. But the vast majority of OAA's flying is training related. Whereas a high percentage of RVAC's flying is by "weekend warriors".

In fact, with the demise of other big operators, Schutts, Combined, Civil etc, my guess is that nowadays the RVAC has a much higher proportion (in relation to the the total number) of recreational flyers than it did in the past.

Perhaps this is where the perceived problem lies.

Car RAMROD

8th Aug 2010, 10:10

In both of the midairs that RVAC have been involved in, their PA28s had instructors on board and their flying was "training related" rather than weekend warriors out on their own.

When KKW ran out of fuel and played 9 holes it had an instructor on board.
- As a side note, might the cause of this latest accident be due to running out of fuel (again)? Maybe even caused by the same (previously mentioned in another thread) dodgy dipstick? And was there an instructor on this flight too? Ouch if it's true!

gezza182, maybe it is a fair comparison?

In the last few years RVAC have obviously/evidently had more major accidents and incidents (I'm talking about bent metal) than any other operator in the area.
Maybe it is time for the microscope to come out?

remoak, "the fact that it did is all they need", too true sadly.
prospector, no need to remove it, just file the sharp edges back and the kiddies have a new toy in the backyard.

flyboy_nz

8th Aug 2010, 10:47

In both of the midairs that RVAC have been involved in, their PA28s had instructors on board and their flying was "training related" rather than weekend warriors out on their own.

One was a PA28, the other a C152. The PA28 was dual. The C152, 2nd solo student. PA28 had slowed down to follow slower aircraft in front in the downwind leg. C152 had just conducted a missed approach and informed the tower. Tower was busy looking after an aircraft on the ground who was unfamiliar with the airport so did not give C152 any traffic info. Circuits were being conducted on 31L. Both Instructor and student in the PA28 got occupied with traffic that they were following. Student in the PA28 saw C152 and turned right straight away but it was too late. Both a/c clipped each other and entered a spin. If you notice the pics of the c152, the damaged wing aileron was jammed in a deflected position. 2nd solo student, therefore had not receieved spin training yet and due to the jammed aileron had no chance of recovering. PA28 instructor had an aerobatic rating and used the rocking technique to recover from the spin as the usual opposite rudder with a push forward wasn't working. Eventually, the aircraft stopped spinning at 500' and the instructor recovered and landed from there. The elevator was damaged, and the aircraft was flown at 65kts at full power to maintain the speed. How do I know all this? I had the chance to meet the instructor during an aerobatics comp and ask him what really happened, instead of making speculations.

When KKW ran out of fuel and played 9 holes it had an instructor on board.

KKW had 45mins reserve left on board when it landed in the golf course. The problem was caused due to AOB being too steep. The incorrect fuel dipstick was a part of the chain of events.

All initial instructor rating flight tests are conducted by CASA testing officers. If the training was not up to par, I am sure these instructors didn't find their licence to train in Breakfast Cereal Boxes.

Desert Flower

8th Aug 2010, 11:38

According to the Adelaide Sunday Mail the two on board KKW were a female pilot aged in her 20's & the passenger was a 70 year old photographer who had chartered the aircraft to take aerial shots over Garfield & Caroline Springs.

DF.

AirBumps

8th Aug 2010, 13:36

I've got a bunch more pictures of the crash but they've all got the pilot in them....I guess its probably not the right thing to do to put them up.....

She's smiling in one of them - and I think I would be to - looking at the images I've got no idea how the hell she survived.

AB

Car RAMROD

8th Aug 2010, 13:41

flyboy_nz, "in both of the midairs". "Midairs", multiple....plural.

Just to inform you if you were not aware, RVAC have had two midair collisions- that one at MB which you describe; and one at Coldstream involving one of their PA28s (UMB) Vs a PA28 based at Lilydale (BZH). Fortunately everyone lived in that one.

Did they actually fix KKWs dipstick or did it run out/low again in a similar situation to the golf course?

flyboy_nz

8th Aug 2010, 22:41

car RAMROD,

Yes, I have heard of the YCEM midair as well. But I only commented on the MB one, because I had the chance to speak to the instructor involved.

The way I see it is if the problem lies with RVAC training or operational procedures, CASA would have picked these up just after the first accident, safety audits and during the testing of initial Grade 3s.

Did they actually fix KKWs dipstick or did it run out/low again in a similar situation to the golf course?

No idea. It's easy to speculate and criticize, I would rather wait for the report to come out.

43Inches

8th Aug 2010, 23:01

Look at OAA most of us hate them BUT they have what 40-50 aircraft made up of c172, c182 and pa44 etc most if not all are flying all day ever day, and they haven't had the number of accidents or incidents Rvac have had over the years!

About 10 years ago GFS as it was known then was losing about one aircraft a year. They picked up their game and now have a much reduced rate.

I was with an operator at Moorabbin for 10 years and we never lost one aircraft. The flying rates in the early days were double what RVAC would be doing now. We did have a few students complain about the standard we tried to achieve and they left for other schools. On a number of occasions we denied private hire to certain pilots because they failed or would not submit to a check ride, they usually walked to another school on field and hired an aircraft from there straight away.

As a result we had a high rating with CASA, very little interference from them. The then AAUP gave all our aircraft owners a percentage discount on insurance for aircraft operated through us.

It does pay to be safe.

PeterTG

9th Aug 2010, 05:13

I notice a lot of speculation that the cause of the engine stoppage was lack of fuel, this based on comments made by a fireman. Given the weather on the day and engine type why is no one suggesting carby ice as a likely cause. This is the time of year to keep a close eye on carby heat.:8

Jack Ranga

9th Aug 2010, 05:48

From someone on scene, no fuel in the tanks

Car RAMROD

9th Aug 2010, 06:47

PeterTG, it could have been shot down for all we really know.
A lot of the current 'speculation' here is probably because of past history- its not the first time that this particular aircraft has fallen short of MB.

A lot of people criticise speculation. Did anyone read the thread on the Air North Braz? Remember all the comments about assy training? People thought that that was speculation as to the cause, but lo and behold it was apparently just that.

Carby ice? Yes a possibility, but I'd be surprised.
As you say Peter, "keep a close eye"... If it was indeed ice, somebody presumably wasn't paying proper attention!

Nice post 43. Just goes to show that high hours doesn't necessarily mean high incidents! Sunny might not like that though.

nitpicker330

9th Aug 2010, 10:41

Funny how there was no Fire after all that damage to the wings!! ( the right one in particular )

mmmm

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

down3gr33ns

9th Aug 2010, 10:52

Funny how there was no Fire after all that damage to the wings!! ( the right one in particular )

mmmm

Lack of fire doesn't mean a thing. I once worked for an operator that had a C210 force land on a golf course near YMMB circa early 1970's. Went well until the pilot swerved to miss some golfers and hit a grassed mound at around 60kts and upended the a/c. Wings split open and the fuel contents (about 1/4 full at the time) spewed onto the ground - no fire though.

Sunfish

9th Aug 2010, 17:18

Ramrod:

Nice post 43. Just goes to show that high hours doesn't necessarily mean high incidents! Sunny might not like that though.

Sunny doesn't mind that one at all. It's nothing to do with high hours, it's to do with statistical significance and randomness.

You might for example fly for thousands of hours with no problems, then get Four unrelated events all happening in the space of a month or Two.

The newspapers do this every time we have a Five death weekend on the roads. "Road safety is going to the dogs!" they scream, when really nothing has changed.

To put it another way, RVAC may now go for Twenty years without an incident.

....unless Sunfish keeps flying:}

airspace alpha

10th Aug 2010, 00:12

I know it's serious but you've got to have a laugh sometimes. this from "Top News Singapore" which is apparently an on-line news service:

pilot and her passenger have strolled away from a frothy plane crash in a backyard.
Yesterday the single-engine and the four-seated plane abrupt the roof of one house and crashed in the yard of a bordering home only hundreds of meters from the Moorabbin Airport runway near Melbourne approx 3.30pm.
The female pilot, 28, from Hawthorn and her male passenger, 70, who were on an airborne photography assignment, were able to mount from the debris uninjured.
A police spokesman expressed there was no one in the house at the moment when the plane crashed, and the pilot and passenger did not undergo any grave injuries.
Paramedics expressed that it was astounding that they were able to move away from the crash.
The aircraft had disembarked from the Moorabbin Airport approx 2.15pm and was making a comeback in to land when its engine botched.
The police spokesman explained that the plane as a write-off. It's poorly dented, yet the house has only lost a few tiles from the top of the roof

Flying Binghi

10th Aug 2010, 00:45

A CAR has smashed through the front of a Japanese restaurant in the Perth CBD, injuring five diners, including a child.

Read more: Five diners hurt as car hits Matsuri Japanese restaurant in Perth | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/five-diners-hurt-as-car-hits-matsuri-japanese-restaurant-in-perth/story-e6frfku0-1225889101296#ixzz0w9wHVY6Z)

We should ban them car's. They might hit a house...:hmm:

.

Flying Binghi

10th Aug 2010, 00:49

.

A MAN has sustained serious head injuries after his vehicle ploughed through a roundabout and crashed into a house in Bassendean early today.

Driver hurt as car smashes into house early today | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/driver-hurt-as-car-smashes-into-house-early-today/story-e6frg12c-1225892606066)

.

Flying Binghi

10th Aug 2010, 00:53

Airborne car hits two houses....

" Police in Connecticut say a Darien resident was killed when the person's car went airborne, crashed through a house, hit a tree and then ran into a second house.

Police say the car was clearly exceeding the 25 mph speed limit..."

The Associated Press: Conn. driver killed as car hits 2 houses, tree (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jX-p1tTAWKsCjG5tBl3WPR-G00zwD9GT1KP80)

.

Flying Binghi

10th Aug 2010, 01:04

Wow, my google skills are astounding ...up to three now.

Vehicle hits three houses...

"Parts of a Montbello neighborhood are in shambles after a pick-up truck took out a light pole and tore up yards and homes.

At least three homes and several vehicles were damaged... "

Truck Hits Three Houses In Montbello - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21145690/detail.html)

Seems them cars are far more dangerous than light aircraft ...:hmm:

.

eman_resu

10th Aug 2010, 01:07

I think you have made your point.

ejet3

12th Aug 2010, 13:41

Do you think we can get back on topic? :ok:

HarleyD

13th Aug 2010, 00:24

This is the topic! nice googling FB

and to think that I was in Denver just a couple of weeks ago, I am very lucky to have escaped uninjured! or at least that would be the media's view...

except I was not actually in Denver at the same time as this happened, or in that neighbourhood, etc...still I was very lucky to survive! phew, those cars are just plummeting into houses in a world wide pandemic (had to get that in) of house smashing vehicular mayhem.

I notice one on the vehicles was actually airborne in one of the reports, I also bet that the driver 'had not lodged a flight plan' as well.

HAHAHAHA

HD

ps - was more disappointed to read about the DIA conspiracy theory the day after i got back! I wish I had known before, as I had a 3 hour layover there and would have loved to see those murals, instead of cat napping. - How's that for thread drift EEJIT??

HD

43Inches

13th Aug 2010, 07:34

Whilst it is amusing to compare the medias' reaction to aviation vs road accidents it is also important to not just look at this string of accidents as "oh well things happen occasionally, just like on the road". The road accidents all had causes probably based on lack of driver knowlege, speed, alcohol, drugs, conditions, poor vehicle maintenance etc....

In aviation the only reason we have such a low rate of accidents is that we treat all accidents seriously and as a learning experience for others. Aviation is unforgiving and if we treated aircraft like cars, trucks and buses the rate of crashes would be extreme.

I prefer the media scrutiny as the day they stop sensationalising everything is the day the authorities will start relaxing laws and the dodgy operators will realy start to take flight.

If one does not want scrutiny of their operations then ensure that the incidents/accidents do not occur.

Luck only plays a part in a very few accidents the rest are usually just poor culture and systems.