Question about LASORS

[FFP]

I can see it now......

Log onto PPRuNe, see a new thread title about LASORS. Think to yourself...

1) The guy is going to get told to read LASORS himself and not be such a lazy FJ driver (well, that's where the questions come from right ?!? And I didn't work so hard at school, so I'm not of that breed)

2) Beags is going to be the one to do it, old skool style.

And that's probably how it's going to go down anyways.....

But in the meantime.......

As a QSP, how the bloody hell do I renew the thing ?!?! Went through all the crammer courses at BGS, got a CAA examiner on a flight with me, paying him 600 odd quid for the honour of flying about on one of HM's finest (and threw in a box lunch too !) argued about putting maps on my windscreen to simulate IF and now the things about to run out next year. Nothing about it in Section G that I could see......

Or am I being as blind as a VC-10 navigator ? .... ;)

Do I need to be in a flying post ? What if I just recently stopped to take up that highly prized SO2 post I've been dreaming about ? What if I've stopped by am technically still "qualified" ? How early can I do it on the renewal date ? Why can't I do my engine out stuff on a C-17 in the sim and call it good rather than giving me a frozen ATPL ? Why isn't the Tornado classed as a multi engine when it clearly has more than one ? Why why why.......

Answers and banter much appreciated.....

[A and C]

I take it that you are trying to renew your IR & the MEP type rating, if it has not expired the IR part can be done on an approved sim.

Otherwise the best thing to do is find a cheap MEP and TRE. try Billins Air Services at Cranfield.

[BEagle]

1. if you're talking about licence re-issue, then you need to see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1102FF.pdf . The CAA call it 'renewal'; actually it's a 're-issue'.

2. The thing which will bite most people who haven't stayed flying since the initial issue of their licence is the IR. See LASORS E1.5 and look under 'IR renewal' and the credit given to QSPs who have held any military IR in the previous 5 years.

What precisely are you trying to renew/revalidate? If you've been flying as a QSP in the last 5 years, then just send off SRG1102 and your current Class 1 medical, plus the fee, to the CAA. You don't need to renew your Class/Type Rating or civil IR just to have your licence re-issued. It only becomes more difficult/expensive if it's now more than 5 years since you last flew (civil or military), or more than 5 years since the date of your last military IR expiry.

[Trim Stab]

I take it that you are trying to renew your IR & the MEP type rating, if it has not expired the IR part can be done on an approved sim.



There are several inaccuracies in that short sentence!

If he is a C-17 pilot, he may not have a MEP class rating to renew (MEP = multi-engine piston - and it is a class, not a type).

My reading of his post is that he wants to renew his IRME rating, which (presumably) he has done on C-17 in multi-crew environment. That can only be renewed on the sim every alternative year - the other annual renewals have to be done on the aircraft by a TRE.

If he does hold a MEP class rating, then he can indeed renew his IRME Single Pilot + IRSE rating on a MEP. If the examiner is reasonable, he will permit the MEP to be renewed on the same flight. The MEP renewal has to be done on an aircraft annually, but the IRME SP + IRSE rating can be renewed on alternative years on an FNPT2 sim.

If the OP is currently in a non-flying job, does not hold a MEP rating, and just wants to keep an IR qualification "alive" then a cheaper option would be to renew IRSE on a SEP.

Perhaps if the OP would make it clearer exactly what civ ratings he holds, and exactly what he is trying to renew, then it might be easier to give some advice.

[BEagle]

From LASORS D3.5:

Although the C17 is recognised as a military multi-engine
aeroplane type, it is not possible to complete the IR(A)
skill test on this type. As a result, C17 pilots will be unable
to obtain a type rating for their respective type, and
should instead complete the type/class rating and IR(A)
requirements applicable to Non-ME pilots.

Additionally, unless things have changed recently, the RAF does not have a C-17 simulator. Such simulators also need to be approved by the CAA for the conduct of IR Skill Tests.

Most of the relevant information is in LASORS D3.5 and D3.7.

Trim Stab, 'renewal' is only needed for a lapsed qualification. Normally a MEP Class Rating and IR revalidation could be conducted concurrently.

Military pilots seeking civil licences and ratings must become familiar with the correct terminology; compared with the clear rules in military flying, civil regulations are a complete minefield of confusion.

[Trim Stab]

Trim Stab, 'renewal' is only needed for a lapsed qualification. Normally a MEP Class Rating and IR revalidation could be conducted concurrently.



BEagle, you are quite right - revalidation is the correct term.

[FFP]

Thanks everyone,

I'm looking to renew / revalidate / reissue my ATPL(A). It comes due next Jan by my remote location means I need to start the ball rolling sooner rather than later to account for the logistics (i.e. I will probably need to return to the UK for a JAA Medical, unless I can find someone here, which is my next job on the internet)

I have been flying military in the last 5 years (something I'll need to clarify with the CAA I guess as the jet was not UK military......) so we'll see what the outcome of that is.

I'm just looking to be well placed in the next few years or so as I come up on retirement so that all my hard work getting the ATPL 4 years back doesn't go to waste as it would if I let it expire.

Thanks for the pointer Beags. Will revisit LASORS with a keener eye for the sections mentioned.

(BTW, the C-17 and Tornado jibe (or gibe....) was just that, after hearing the same sob stories from those on type that I work with ;) )

[NutLoose]

Why can't I do my engine out stuff on a C-17 in the sim and call it good rather than giving me a frozen ATPL ? Why isn't the Tornado classed as a multi engine when it clearly has more than one ? Why why why.......


Simple, because they are not manufactured or tested to an internationally recognised standard, hence why all warbirds go on the register as Permit to fly aircraft which is VFR only.....

[BEagle]

Nonsense!













.

[FFP]

It was my understanding that the C-17 thing was due to USAF in flight restrictions on simulated asymetric following some C-130 incidents........

[Trim Stab]

Nonsense!



Why?

If you can't explain a point, best to keep silent. Otherwise it just looks like you are showing off.

[NutLoose]

Well as a Chief Engineer, an EASA and CAA approved and nominated engineer qualified in and approved to issue the C of A renewals and all aspects that that incurs from dealing with ex military going onto the register through to importing, please clarify Beagle........ I am all ears

[BEagle]

Simple, because they are not manufactured or tested to an internationally recognised standard, hence why all warbirds go on the register as Permit to fly aircraft which is VFR only.....

:rolleyes:

1. The RAF does not possess a C-17 simulator. If it did, the CAA would need to approve it for the conduct of IR Skill Tests.

2. The CAA insists that a Staff Examiner observes all IR Skill Tests. So flying one to the US to observe a C-17 IRT would be unlikely - even if the sim was approved for IR Skill Tests.

3. The CAA assessed all RAF aircraft/roles at the time of granting 'experienced QSP' exemptions. The Tornado does not meet their requirements for such exemptions to the same degree that a TriStar/VC10/C-130 etc does.

4. Certain ex-military aircraft certainly do have civil CofA. Chipmunk and Bulldog, for example. Tiger Moth even. So they are not 'all Permit to Fly' day VFR-only aircraft.

5. 'Warbird' is rather a spotter-ish description, in my view. I've even heard a placid little ex-military Piper Cub described as a 'warbird'...:hmm:

Incidentally, FFP, I believe you're correct regarding USAF restrictions on simulated asymmetric aircraft operation.

[NutLoose]

Quote:
Why can't I do my engine out stuff on a C-17 in the sim and call it good rather than giving me a frozen ATPL ? Why isn't the Tornado classed as a multi engine when it clearly has more than one ? Why why why.......


Simple, because they are not manufactured or tested to an internationally recognised standard, hence why all warbirds go on the register as Permit to fly aircraft which is VFR only.....


and where in that list of a C-17 and Tornado I was replying to when you said "nonsense" is a Chipmunk and Bulldog or Tiger Moth??? none of which I would describe as a warbird.

which incidentally I have all of those on my Civil licences............. they were manufactured and tested to a recognised international standard to qualify as they were produced for the Civilian market as well.....

If you want to see the difficulties of putting some ex military stuff on the Register that wasn't tested to those standards.... go look at the Belfast

[BEagle]

all warbirdswas what you wrote. Your ambiguous prose seemed to indicate that because neither the C-17 nor Tornado were manufactured or tested to an internationally recognised standardthen they are restricted to Permit to Fly Day VFR only. Which is clearly nonsense.

Anyway, the question was about pilot licensing exemptions as applicable to QSPs revalidating civil licences.

[NutLoose]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP733.PDF