NZQA qualified flight schools, Ardmore

[bean152986]

Hi all,

Just want to start a quick thread on the flying schools at Ardmore. I live in Auckland and want to start flying and Ardmore is the only option. It also needs to be accredited with NZQA as I will be a self funded international. I've done a bit of research and Eagle Flight Training look to be the one to go to. They have 2 websites with the same school name Eagle Flight Training (http://www.aviationschool.co.nz) & Eagle Flight Training - The premier flight school in Auckland New Zealand (http://www.eftl.co.nz/) which is confusing, but they do have highly trained staff and a fleet of aircraft. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Bean

[flyboy_nz]

Go on a road trip to Ardmore and have a look around. If I were in your shoes, I would go on a Friday afternoon and then head to the Auckland Aero Club Bar later. You will meet some interesting people. Speak to some of the old guys and the students. See what they all have to say. My advice is to avoid the sausage factories at all costs.

[divinesoul]

yup i agree with flyboy.

a good number of ardmore guys have gone to other schools across the country.

they were happy with the theory but when it came to flying they left the school.

so i would advice u to do ur homework properly to avoid disappointment later.

good luck.

[mattyj]

Good on ya for wanting a flying career..just a word of warning..

Thats a big student loan and the way things are in Aviation..it will be a long time with you

Great view from the office tho!!

[bean152986]

Thanks everyone, :ok: first I have worked for a good number years saving the money for this and have 80% of what I need for my instructor rating, I love flying it's as simple as that. From experience with working with companies you dont find out the bad news until you well in and stuck there. I just don't want that to happen with so much money at stake. Thanks for your comments though I think a trip down to the Aero Club bar might be on the cards! :)

[BurntheBlue]

The difference between students from Clubs and those out of the so called 'sausage factories' lies with the student.

If you're serious, as i'm sure you are, ultimately the effort you put in will determine what you get out. Hitting the bar friday night is great idea :) just keep an open mind.

[Mussop]

The owners of Eagle Flight Training have changed thats why the two websites. Auckland Aeroclub are also able to take NZQA students so check them out. Good luck with deciding, big decision for you, but know what you want and go for it.

[KING PIN]

what is the difference if you train at a NZQA qualified flight school as opposed to a non NZQA qualified flight school?

[dudduddud]

It's to do with student visas.

If you attend a non-NZQA school then you do not qualify for a student visa.

[lilflyboy262]

Did all my training with Eagle flight training. Probably one of, if not the best training on ardmore field.
Did my shopping around and have a lot of friends who have gone to ardmore flying school and have left dissappointed with their training to say the least.

Ardmore flying school does provide a lot of gadgets suchs as simulators and the like that Eagle does not, as well as them having newer aircraft. But the depth of experience at Eagle cannot be over looked with the CEO being ex american airlines on the 757 and current on the learjet, the CFI being ex regional airlines on the metroliners, and a current 737-300 captain with Air NZ also in the ranks. The above mentioned instructors are also all A-cat instructors.

Go in and meet the guys, talk to Darryl Robertson or Mike Foster and they will tell everything pretty much how it is. Also try to aim to be there around lunchtime as Rosita cooks one hell of a lunch occasionally for everyone :ok:

[Mussop]

lilflyboy262 you must have trained there a while ago. Eagle Flight Training has changed owners. Mike Foster still there instructing but Darryl Robertson has now left. Dave Woodington now the CFI.

[S.E.A.L.11]

Yep I think from memory the 737 driver has also relocated his services...

Last I heard through the grapevine is that its not all cracked up as it used to be...I know for a fact that their website stretches the truth a wee bit... := Pity cos there was a huge potential there :(.

[in ictus nos fides]

Yea I'd heard the 737 driver has moved on.... probably didn't trust the new ownership..... Also their senior instructors seem to have their own interpretation of the rules:ugh:....

I think advertising training aircraft that are not available for your use is a little more than stretching the truth....:=

All the best for your search for a flight training institution.... The work you put in will determine what you get out.

[BurntheBlue]

...the depth of experience at Eagle cannot be over looked...

Ardmore Flying School isn't exactly 'short' on experience either, 3x A-cats, more than 15x B-cats.

I really think you should just walk in to both organizations (and if indeed AAC are NZQA, try them too) check out the facilities, talk to the people. You'll form a better opinion for yourself if you have a look, rather than believing PPRuNe banter.

[mattyj]

If you have 80% of the funds to do an instructors rating at Ardmore Flying School then you probably have 100% of the funds to do it at Airline Flying Club :}

[atr42guy]

Just went back there for a currency check - trained there before and their new facilities are great. They have a couple of sims now one being a full motion red bird that beats anything ardmore has. I prefer eagle for there personal touch. Ardmore is just a meat factory and is one of the worst schools I have been to (out of a dozen or more)

harsh but my two cents ;-)

[Rhodesia77]

2 websites, a flashy new brochure and a recent change in management:confused: smoke and mirrors I'd say, but that's just me, the facts:

The following information was found on Wiki (see link) and is the biggest crock of :mad: I've had the pleasure of reading.

Eagle Flight Training - The Aviation School of New Zealand has a fleet of aircraft and simulators based in Ardmore.


Cessna 172 7
Beechcraft Duchess 2
Beech Bonanza36 1
Cessna 150 1
Cirrus SR22 1
Partenavia P.68 1
Piper PA-23 1
Cessna 180 1
Robinson R22 2
Robinson R44 2

Staff 20 Including 11 Instructors,

:=
User:Cyrillnc/Eagle Flight Training - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eagle_Flight_Training&diff=360701420&oldid=prev)


At present you'd be lucky to have the availability of 1 twin (Duchess) and one C172:(
As for staff numbers :eek: being generous they would have 5 instructors :hmm:

With the amount of money at stake for an International student like yourself I would be looking at the more established establishments:8

Eagle may have been something once but now they are trying to be something they are most definitely not.

Rhode.

[Water Wings]

Eagle Flight Training....umm....errr..

Recently needed to get an ILS endorsement. Never got around to it before now but all of a sudden I needed it. Fairly experienced IFR pilot and have flown an ILS many times but only as a LOC approach. Calling around to get some quotes, without even asking my experience Eagle flat out tell me 4 hours flying needed?!?! 4 hours training to do something I can already do (just not to the lower ILS minima of course). Guy on the phone sounded like a tool and again flat out told me 4 hours flying. Took my money to a much more helpful organisation in another centre and we had two approaches done and I was signed off barely an hour after arriving on the airfield (and for a rock bottom price).

I was certainly not going to pay for extra unnecessary flying just to line someone elses pocket:rolleyes:

[in ictus nos fides]

Hahaha their new website is fantastic...what a load of bull:mad:.....
Apparently they require 100hrs for a c-cat course, last time I checked you only need 25 dual instruction. Granted 25 is a minimum, however I doubt 4 times this is required.
Also the owner of that Cirrus wont let others fly it. After investigating doing a rating in one a while ago, AAC was the only place that offered one for training...shame thats gone.

[dudduddud]

oh no! has the aac cirrus gone?

[S.E.A.L.11]

Well at least Wikipedia had the sense to pull it from the main database...

Seriously whoever wrote that (well we all do, cos its got his name on it :D) needs to look at where he would like to end up in this industry...

Looks like a scam brewing to me...:suspect::=

[Massey1Bravo]

Yea I'd heard the 737 driver has moved on.... probably didn't trust the new ownership.....

Just curious, where did he go?

[mattyj]

He's still nearby, he was always just there ad-hoc. I think you'll find that the previous owner has moved into another specific training field and one of the employees has taken the business over. Nothing too sinister just a shuffle of the decks. New building etc. Nothing stays the same for ever

[in ictus nos fides]

mattyj, calling what's happened at EFTL a mild shuffling of the deck is like saying the Titanic was merely a runabout that bumped into a channell marker. The new owner was NEVER an employee, and from others accounts it was anything but a smooth transition.
Moving to a new building and making things look all new and shiny doesn't mean the quality of service will be good.
Things do change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Unfortunately I fear the latter is the case. :\

[scon]

Yup unfortunately the AAC Cirrus is gone

But on that note AAC now is NZQA qualified, through their offshoot the New Zealand College of Aviation.

That Eagle fleet list is the biggest load of cr@p I have read in a long time. I hear they are now owned by a couple of Russian gentleman now so looks like the management has changed a bit and in turn the experience of the guys that used to run it has gone.
Not to mention "50 students" really!! Must be hard to get a booking in 3 172's in that case.

[in ictus nos fides]

50 students!!!! :}

Currently only 2 C172's are available (the 180hp no longer is), so with some quick maths we could work out that 50 students per year (as advertised on their website as a one year course) would equal 10,000 flying hours. Meaning each aircraft would need to be doing 5000 hours per year.... that equals 13.7 hours flying EVERY DAY!!! Now factor in weather and maintenance disruptions and it would simply never work:ugh:

I know that most places will advertise "shiny side up" and every organisation will have an upside and a downside however this is simply ridiculous.

[mintpro172]

hi bean, i train at ardmore airfield and would like to say be careful in your decision. The cheapest solution is not always the safest with that amount of money on the line. With regards Eagle, I know of 3 students that were there for over 3 months learning to fly that never went solo or never heard them make radio calls in/out of the circuit. It has been getting alot of bad press through the aviation industry especially on the airfield, no doubt you'll hear some of it at the bar. But go and visit them all meet your potential instructors and the planes and make up your mind and definately make a trip to the bar some good times on a Friday night. :}

[captboeing737ng]

Whatever you do don't go near Ardmore Flying School. AFS just treat you like another number, they are a sausage factory. Though do go down to the bar and ask around you'll get the best feel for who's best on the field.

[BurntheBlue]

At the risk of stating the obvious, it sounds like you have your CPL and are looking for a place to complete a Ccat. If this is the case and you are not starting from scratch.... FYI

A handy piece of information for you Bean is that AFS run a Ccat course from which they select their instructors and only AFS students are selected for this course. It provides opportunity for progression for their students, but, unfortunately means others such as yourself have even fewer options.

I have some experience at Ardmore and if we were to cut out AFS then from those that are left, my observations tell me the likes of Eagle and Airline Flying Club fall below par. AAC is a better option, the people there are friendly and helpful and if it is indeed NZQA then i'd say go for it.

AAC actually has a couple of people studying for a Ccat at the moment so you would be amongst good company.

I have to reiterate flyboy's first comment.... tomorrow's friday, do it.

[scon]

Well I am somewhat bias, but AAC is a good option. If like mentioned you already have a CPL and the money for a Ccat the club is a good place to do it (no student funding available as yet), and yes there are a couple of guys working though their Ccat at the moment. Also a good amount of experience and things to learn from the more experienced members also.

But if I were you, don't follow any of the 'wouldn't go near' comments, go EVERYWHERE that is an option and look at the pros and cons of all the operators, so Eagle, AFS, AAC and Airline.

[bean152986]

first of all thank you for your comments and just to add an update...

Burntheblue - "At the risk of stating the obvious, it sounds like you have your CPL and are looking for a place to complete a Ccat. If this is the case and you are not starting from scratch.... FYI"

I have 2 flights both of which were just scenic flights to see if I enjoyed it, I will be starting from scratch.

I'm heading to Ardmore after lunch today to talk to all the schools and to get prices which hopefully I can get some feedback when I post up stuff tomorrow, but I'll be heading to the bar afterwards :}

[LocoDriver]

I am biased too.

Clubs produce good instructors.....leave sausage factories to produce sausages.
I Met a B Cat from one flying school , who had 2 thousand hours, and ONE type rating, a Cessna 172! Gee whiz, great variety of experience there.!

Airline Flying Club are training several C Cats at the moment, they are an organisation that is growing quite well, must be doing something right.
Make sure you do the rounds, compare all the prices and promises, its your hard earned cash.........

beware of the glossy print, and sales talk in the industry.

:ok:

[bossman1181]

Hi Guys, I did some flying with AAC (Aero Club) found them to be professional but very friendly at the same time. The only disadvantage was that they didnt have the student funding. Although Im told that they have done heaps of work toward NZQA and are very close to having this all completed including the 141 stuff
I did some C Cat training with them but unfortunately didnt compelete it(other things cropt up) I choose them because I heard through the grapevine that their C Cat training was superior. At the time I was there they had 4 full time B cat's so this made it easy to get bookings. Jason and Sandra were my instructors and yeah found them to have a wealth of knowledge, Tim and Nathan were really good too. Friendly all round crew.
As mentioned elsewhere in this post shop around! Im sure all four training organisations on Ardmore are capable of doing your training, I guess at the end of the day its the place which best suites your needs and cost, go off recommendations too.

[bean152986]

Hi all,

the bar Friday night was the ideal place to go and free fries and cheap beer who could ask for more. Ok so the schools...

Ardmore Flying School was a busy place but they require full time study and I hope to continue on work part time during the course. Also they're starting dates didnt fit with my schedule, nice people there though.

Airline Flying club unfortunately don't do NZQA which is what I need.

Auckland Aero Club have a bar :ok: !! but the instructors were sound and answered all the questions that needed answering. Their prices seem reasonable too and the training is very flexible.

Eagle Flight Training was also very helpful. Their course costs are abit lower than the others, they have 3 full time A Cats and a B Cat which they said can easily be booked.

I'm abit torn between the 2. Any suggestions??? :confused:

[BurntheBlue]

Its a shame you cant hit it full time, i'd be partial to AFS. However of the two you mentioned...

AAC, no question...

[flyboy_nz]

AAC would be a good choice. They have a good variety of aircraft. Try them all after you get your PPL.

[mintpro172]

AAC no question dont touch eagle. :ok:

[JAMUP]

Hello There

I posses a NZ CPL/ME IR and its been 5 years since I left NZ.

Can somebody tell me to renew the IR how many hours I am suppose to do ? Whether to do the Multi IR or Single IR ( I have the BE76 rating though) do I have to do the IR Law again?

and also I have read lots about the Ardmore schools, I infact graduated from Armore Flying school but they cannot accomadate me, so my choses are Eagle and AAC.please advice .Prefer Ardmore cos I have been there and have a place to stay since I have some contacts .

All I need to do it to renew my NZ IR again with minimum hours and money.

Thanks

[mattyj]

What a load of c#$p! Its not that they can't accomodate you, they won't accomodate you. AFS has absolutely forgotten the relationship between customer and service...what a joke..if you have money to spend and they are able to do the training ..and they did your initial training too and they still can't "fit you in" then they need to be blacklisted...c'mon AFS get your act together!!!

[BurntheBlue]

if you have money to spend and they are able to do the training ..and they did your initial training too and they still can't "fit you in" then they need to be blacklisted...c'mon AFS get your act together!!!

Blacklist Fail.

Firstly. How is that even a problem?

Secondly. Ever considered they actually could be THAT busy. Go spend a sunny afternoon at any flying school, these places run a pretty busy apron.

Finally. And completely on the contrary, id say the fact they aren't willing to take your money proves how busy they are.

JAMUP

Tricky decision, not sure if AAC are still running the Duchess ZK-SMI and if they are, whether or not they do Inst. Ratings. Or, whether they would be able to sort a SEIR in ZK-JRA or that new fangled G1000 they have there. Id say go in and have a chat with them first.

Failing that, unless there is some other secret flying school I don't know about, or Airline Flying Club now do IR's, I think your hand has been forced. Eagle run a Duchess, ZK-YES and do MEIR's.

[Rhodesia77]

Bean152986

Eagle Flight Training was also very helpful. Their course costs are abit lower than the others, they have 3 full time A Cats and a B Cat which they said can easily be booked.


3 full time 'A' Cats :confused: 1- Full time A Cat, currently the 'acting' CFI
2- The 2nd is a Part-Timer, at best:sad: who will cancel your booking at the drop of a hat due to other flying contracts
3- The 3rd ceased to hold a current Pilots License more than 20 yrs ago:suspect:


mattyj
What a load of c#$p! Its not that they can't accomodate you, they won't accomodate you.

Actually sir, having just spoken to a MEIR student from AFS there was a waiting period of 3 months......business must be good me thinks.

JAMUP

AAC still has SMI on-line but she's in for a service so I'd head in and have a chat, that said they do have use of a Partbanana with instructor.:ooh: a nice bit of kit to fly and it's a 6 seater.

There's no G1000 at the AAC though.

Bean152986

It's a bloody minefield out there, and I'm going to stick my neck out here by saying, read the cold, hard facts re: Eagle:suspect: surely that will knock one of the contenders out of the race for your cash.

Good Luck:ok:

[sgenie]

I agree wholeheartedly with LocoDriver - AFC is a school to go! Very professional instructors, great selection of airplanes and, very important - all the planes are kept in a good order!

[BurntheBlue]

There's no G1000 at the AAC though

JRE was there for a bit... I know it doesn't belong to the club but is it not available to the general Public?

[NZFlyingKiwi]

JRE was there for a bit... I know it doesn't belong to the club but is it not available to the general Public?

No, not at the moment.

[in ictus nos fides]

mattyj
What a load of c#$p! Its not that they can't accomodate you, they won't accomodate you.AFS don't accommodate people outside of their course, exaclty the same way that CTC, Massey etc etc don't. They run a full time course and its tight with bookings as it is. I'm sure they wouldn't turn away business, if they had the space to take it on.

I agree wholeheartedly with LocoDriver - AFC is a school to go! Very professional instructors, great selection of airplanes and, very important - all the planes are kept in a good order! Also they dont have NZQA, which it appears is a requirement for bean152986...

[JAMUP]

seems like sad news from Ardmore.
Anyway Iam still waiting for some positive news

Thnks all for the info

[What time is ECT?]

Hello "in ictus nos fides". Not sure where you got your information from regarding "serious" maintenance errors. Two of the aircraft that were sent ran out of hours due to the extensive flying done by the school (this is a good problem to have). One had a starter meltdown that was NOT the result of a maintenance error, in fact,

Cessna Solenoids (http://www.skytecair.com/Cessna_Solenoids.htm)

has an extensive explanation on why a lot of Cessna's are having the same problem. I personally flew the aircraft back to Ardmore for repair.

[in ictus nos fides]

ECT:
My apologies, the information passed on was incorrect. Running out of hours is indeed a good problem for any flying organisation.

[c100driver]

LocoDriver
I am biased too.

Clubs produce good instructors.....leave sausage factories to produce sausages.
I Met a B Cat from one flying school , who had 2 thousand hours, and ONE type rating, a Cessna 172! Gee whiz, great variety of experience there.!

Airline Flying Club are training several C Cats at the moment, they are an organisation that is growing quite well, must be doing something right.
Make sure you do the rounds, compare all the prices and promises, its your hard earned cash.........


You would not happen to be the Kiwirail train driver and CFI of Airline Flying Club would you, so more than a little biased toward the place?

[Konev]

there are other schools outside of auckland that offer NZQA.

shop around you might not like the idea of moving out of auckland but it could be in your favour to do it.

and just a bit to derail the thread a tad, which GA operator in NZ that takes fresh students and CCATs has a full G1000 fleet?

yet to see one.

[LocoDriver]

Hello C100 Driver

No, I am not, and never have been a Kiwirail Train driver??

dont know where you got that from?

I am a flying instructor, very biased towards clubs, rather than flying schools.

A lot of instructors would be biased the other way.

cheers

:ok:

[dudduddud]

Psalms 31:18

Don't worry, we had the Club Captain of the AAC on here a while ago boosting the place pretending to be an unbiased student.

[BurntheBlue]

Psalm 31:18
"Let their lying lips be silenced,
for with pride and contempt
they speak arrogantly against the righteous."

Classic mate :D

But i wonder, who are "the righteous" in this instance?

[BurntheBlue]

The fact of the matter is that, like anything, you only get out what you put in.
This is true, unlike your facts and stats.

...but to do a tail-wheel you will need to go to Eagle....AFC has 152s if that's your bent.

So in danger of appearing like a nit-picking old hag....

Thats all well and good, if indeed Eagle had a taildragger (need to go down the road for that, try "http://www.flythecub.net/")
Also, the tidiest 152 on the airfield belongs to AAC, good ol' FLF.

Look, I don't have anything to do with AAC, I just rate the place and if PPRuNe is to be of any help it needs to be accurate. :ugh:

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Also, AAC do actually have a Citabria available to them if you're keen on tailwheel flying. Not to take away from the Cub though, BTU is a lot of fun too. :)

[Advisor]

Stay well clear of Ardmore Flying School...Best advice anybody could give anyone considering a piloting career! The place is highly unprofessional, Take your money elsewhere.

[AceBase]

Hi All

Just starting out and looking at training options at Ardmore in Auckland.

Appreciate any current feedback positive or negative on either Southern Wings or Ardmore Flying School. Is an Air NZ partner FTO a plus?

[27/09]

Just starting out and looking at training options at Ardmore in Auckland.

Appreciate any current feedback positive or negative on either Southern Wings or Ardmore Flying School. Is an Air NZ partner FTO a plus?

Of those two I'd say Southern Wings.

Air New Zealand FTO partner a plus? Yes and No.

I wouldn't restrict your options to Ardmore, I'd look south east and north from there too.

[nijo]

Wouldn't touch AFS with a 10 foot pole! Massive waits between stages for no reason, found it really unprofessional, and dealing with management was like banging my head against a wall :ugh: saying that, some of the instructors are pretty good though


Think they may be having some problems, they have just grounded half of their fleet.

[Mad Dogs]

Stay away from ARDMORE FLYING SCHOOL! Had the same problem big waits as aircraft always grounded or in maintenance. Lots of rumours sounds like biz isn't going too well.:rolleyes: