Aberdeen Simulators

[Special 25]

Seems a new dawn for simulators in Aberdeen over the next few months.

Where do they all stand. To my knowledge, there is ........

AS332L - Bristow
S-92 - Bristow
EC225 - Bristow (Due ready some time this year)


AS332L2 - CHC (About ready now)


EC225 - Eurocopter (not sure when its ready)


I know both Bristow and Eurocopter and I believe CHC would appear to have capacity for more simulator bays - The Eurocopter building looks bigger than HeliSim. Does anyone know the plan, and is Aberdeen destined to be the next Forth Worth, Marignane or West Palm Beach ??

[malaprop]

is Aberdeen destined to be the next Forth Worth, Marignane or West Palm Beach ??


It doesn't matter how many simulators you put in, it'll still be Aberdeen :yuk:

[HeliComparator]

CHC L2 - already in service

Bristow EC225 - due end of August if CAA are good to us!

EC EC225 - end of year as far as I know.

So with plenty of competition, perhaps it will be down to who provides the best lunches (in which case the winner will be EC!)

What I think is interesting is perhaps not so much that these devices are in Abz, rather that they represent the new concept of combined FTD3 / FS level B which gives as good a training value as level D (better in many ways) for a fraction of the cost, and with features better orientated to offshore ops rather than being jack-of-all-trades

HC

[Big Tudor]

is Aberdeen destined to be the next Forth Worth, Marignane or West Palm Beach ??
Well, with climate change, you never know! ;):cool:

Is the Bristow S92 up and running now? I'm pretty sure CHC have capacity for more than 1 box. Always wondered whether they were waiting for the results of the SARH deal before they decided what else to put in there. Get SARH and an S92 is probably justifiable. No SARH then put another L2 in there. Can't see CHC putting an EC225 in with Bristows & EC on the doorstep, however I stand to be corrected.

[floatsarmed]

Is there going to be a Bristow S76C++ sim in Aberdeen?

[HeliComparator]

Is the Bristow S92 up and running now

Yes, has been for a few months

HC

[Special 25]

I never quite understood why Flight Safety put an S-92 Sim in Farnborough. To my knowledge, that is the only UK offshore machine simulator outside of the Aberdeen area. Is that operation busy ? I believe there are a couple of private S-92 operators in the London area and very few in Europe - not much to keep that Sim busy.

Do BI still own the S-61 Sim somewhere down south now ?

OK, it is still Aberdeen, but I'm thinking of moving into the Hotel Business. - 'The Hilton - Kirkton Industrial Estate' has a nice ring to it !

[Horror box]

OK, it is still Aberdeen, but I'm thinking of moving into the Hotel Business. - 'The Hilton - Kirkton Industrial Estate' has a nice ring to it !


It can only be an improvement on the Thistle!

[212man]

not much to keep that Sim busy.


Mmm, interesting viewoint! I often used to think as I wondered out at 04:00 for the 5th day on the trot - "thank God they aren't busy here, or we'd be getting really crap slot times" :ugh:

The BHL business model would probably make sense without any 3rd party customers, given the volume of training they have internally (don't forget BHL Norway.) With CHC Europe too, it will clearly be very successful. However, that doesn't mean FSI's choice of location wasn't sensible - if you assumed every customer would buy their own simulator, you would never put a sim anywhere! Farnborough is about 35 minutes from LHR and an hour from LGW. They have a large existing facility (13 FW simulators) with all the infrastructure and support in place, thus obviating the need to set up a stand alone facility. In any case, a stand alone facility needs at least 2 if not 3 devices to even get of the drawing board.

Customers currently come (after the exodus to BHL) from Saudi Arabia (16 aircraft,) Cougar, CHC Global, CHC Australia, CHC SAR, BSP, Gulf and others. It's a busy place, I assure you.

That being said, manufacturers and their allied simulator providers should be aware that the significant geographical distances involved in travelling to conduct training are increasingly a real bain. Increasingly, the attraction of cheaper (but generally no less functional) devices - such as the ones now in Aberdeen - is very real for operators large and small.

FSI and others should take note - Darwinism is alive and well and living in the world of FTDs ;)

[Aubrey.]

Any links to more info on these simulators? Manufacturers?

[Big Tudor]

cueSim Ltd (http://www.cuesim.com/news.html)
Info on the CHC L2 sim. Click on the "CHC Orders FTD3" button.

[Aubrey.]

Thanks. Wow, those are impressive piece of equipment, I'd love to try one out.

[jemax]

I was lucky enough to be the first course through the S92 sim in March, it's a first class bit of kit and made the transition to the aircraft very straightforward, with a few other bit's I have done in it recently I can now boast 133 hours in the 92 sim, which I think I have only just passed in the real aircraft.

I have to say that I have never felt better prepared for my first flight in the real aircraft than after the sim course. It really is an excellent training tool and a fantastic investment for future 92 crew's. There are a couple of minor simism's which mean that you have to fly a bit of sim technique occasionally, but in the main it's excellent. The tail rotor thrust failure is a hoot, especially given the lack of vertical stabiliser in the aircraft and the double gen failure imc gets your attention!

The sim has become pretty busy pretty quickly.

[Flight_Test_Engineer]

Any links to more info on these simulators? Manufacturers?

The Bristow Sims (EC225 and S-92) are manufactured by Frasca.

[gwelo shamwari]

Is there any chance of Bristow putting a S76C++ sim in Aberdeen?

Would make sense seeing all S76 work they just won.

[212man]

Is there any chance of Bristow putting a S76C++ sim in Aberdeen?

I'd put money on it....and a 139.

[SimFlightTest]

The Frasca/Bristow EC225 FTD3/Level B device is now certified and in full service.

[cyclic]

and is Aberdeen destined to be the subsequent Forth Worth, Marignane or West Palm Beach ??

Not unless they all become cold, grey, dark and unfriendly!

[Wizzard]

That's a bit unfair - calling Aberdeen grey:rolleyes:

[bigglesbutler]

And unfriendly, unless you're English XD.

LOOL

[Diode]

Rumor has it that the Eurocopter built EC225 sim failed qualification. Anyone hear the details?

[squib66]

No, but CAE have sold their L2 sim to CAE.

[Wizzard]

No, but CAE have sold their L2 sim to CAE.

Come again?

[squib66]

Sorry, CHC sold that sim, 3 others and a good part of their training provision to CAE.
CAE to acquire CHC Helicopter's training operations | Shephard Group (http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/rotorhub/cae-to-acquire-chc-helicopter-s-training-operations/7984/)
Does TUPE apply in the UK?

[zalt]

"Safety is CHC's number one priority and world-class training is the cornerstone of safe operations," said William Amelio, President and Chief Executive Officer of CHC Helicopter... The ability to scale training to meet demand is the way of the future for the helicopter industry."



Translation:

We beancounters care so little about safety that we will outsource a key part of safety so we can save the cost of maintaining the infrastructure when we lose business.

Or am I being uncharitable?

Who or what are TUPE?

[LastMinute]

Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/BusinessTransfersandtakeovers/DG_10026691)

Basically, legislation to ensure that staff who have to move from CHC to CAE don't end up with worse terms and conditions of employment.

Might be a little bit complicated because I think some of the guys in Aberdeen are employed by the Norwegian FTO rather than by CHC Scotia.

[zalt]

Thanks for that.

Are CAE going to take on the FTO approvals too?

[Horror box]

I do not think it is necessarily such a bad move, and certainly would not call it a compromise to safety. CHC have taken a sensible move to outsource simulator training to a company that specialise in this field and have a huge amount of experience doing so, in both military and civilian fields. At present much of the sim training is done via Flight Safety or the Bristow sims anyway, which are not perfect at all either, so where is the big difference. CHC's primary aim is to get helicopters flying, keeping the customer happy, and of course making money somewhere. Simualtors are not cheap, and resource intensive to operate and maintain in the long run. If this os not your core business then why not let another company take care of it for you. It frees up more resources n CHC and funds, to concentrate on the core business of getting aircraft in the air and supporting the contracts in the best way. This is not a new idea. Most military air forces have been doing ot for some time. The fact remains that the Training Centre in Stavanger needed to be upgraded, a the sims were outdated and it would take a heck of a lot of money to do so, with a lot of justification to investors, inevitably resulting in compromise along the way. CAE will very likely be able to provide a good product and I am sure they will provide top quality training, and it will allow CHC to use a brand new training centre in Stavanger again, which will be a positive step.

[heliwanab]

can a non driver get a shot??:confused:

[squib66]

HB

Surely flying standards are core business and if CHC have let sims get out dated then it hardly reinforces the idea that commitment to training has been strong previously.

In addition, CHC seem happy to pursue other people's maintenance through Heli-One which is not part of the 'core' you describe.

[212man]

Troy,
Why the substantial edit removing the alleged explanation for your rumour?

[TiPwEiGhT]

The company will in 2012 establish an advanced flight simulator for the Sikorsky S-92 helicopters at the airport. The simulator that costs 400 to 500 million kroner will be one of very few S-92 simulators in operation worldwide, the Aftenbladet enlightened under the Sola Conference on Aviation.

It's Statoil, which demands that Norway should establish Bristow training center with a simulator at Sola. Something similar has happened in the past when the contract award by the Norwegian continental shelf flights.

The reason for it all is that the Norwegian state-owned oil company recently signed a contract with Bristow Norway for flights on the Norwegian continental shelf for two billion. The creation of the simulator is likely to lead to increased demand from other S-92 operators from around the globe.

Perhaps it's been moving to Norway? :}

[Epiphany]

Can't think why. I would rather a couple of nights in Stavanger than the Thistle.

[tistisnot]

Does that mean we have some airborne managers somewhere?

[C.C.C.]

I would rather a couple of nights in Stavanger than the Thistle.
But at least we can afford to eat & drink in the Thistle, not so on the other side of the North Sea!

[Epiphany]

Breakfast is free and I'm sure the best paid pilots on the UK North Sea could afford the odd beer CCC.

[cyclic]

Would you want to eat and drink in the Thistle?

[C.C.C.]

Breakfast is freeNot if your briefing is at 07:00hrs at the weekend. Done that twice, first time room service failed to appear so had to do 2 hours of night decks in the vomit comet with no food, and the 2nd time was charged £5:00 for the room service continental breakfast.
Would you want to eat and drink in the Thistle?Sometimes there is little other option if you have no transport, or no nominated driver.

[212man]

Not if your briefing is at 07:00hrs at the weekend.

By 'eck that's a tough schedule! Makes me feel a bit embarrassed that I complained to FSI about our 00:00-02:00 followed by 03:00-05:00 slots we had for most of 2009!

[PlasticCabDriver]

our 00:00-02:00 followed by 03:00-05:00 slots we had for most of 2009!

At least you could get breakfast in the Thistle afterwards...

[Wizzard]

It's a f*c£ing long walk from FSI to the Thistle!

[Special 25]

Also, I don't know of the economics directly, but I assume that having researched, creating the data, software etc producing a second Sim would be a fraction of the price of the original??

Surely better building a new Sim now that all the data is there and the problems ironed out, and selling time on both, rather than moving the current simulator.

[Wizzard]

Just like to congratulat the Bristow management team in distroying or at least trying too a great company with a great heritage.
Even in my back yard the news of the 101 how not to manage process is welcomed and chances to take an advantage in the Market place that as long as the present trend continues by them will be welcomed

I think your Enigma machine is broken:)

[Scotsheli]

...and your smellchecker.

[zalt]

CAE gets $140 million in contracts (http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/gets+million+contracts/4141272/story.html)

32 CHC training jobs to move to CAE.

[212man]

32 not 323.......

[Heli-Ice]

Is the Norwegian Safety Academy (http://www.norwegiansafety.com/index.html) owned by CAE?

[LastMinute]

According to this March 2008 article in Stavanger Aftenblad (http://www.aftenbladet.no/energi/arbeidsliv/article610039.ece) the Norwegian Safety Academy appears to involve Thales, Falck Nutec, Eurocopter and Norsk Helikopter (now Bristow).

Given that that (three year-old) information seems to be the most recent available, is it safe to assume that nothing came of the plans for the Academy?

[LastMinute]

Eurocopter/Indra EC225 sim opens in Aberdeen: press release (http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/press/Eurocopter-inaugurates-its-new-North-Sea-Service-Centre-with-an-EC225-helicopter-simulator-at-Aberdeen-in-Scotland-and-signs-a-key-training-contract_752.html)

CHC sign up for EC225 training (presumably moving away from Bristow), and suggestions of a forthcoming EC175 sim there as well.

[chcoffshore]

But while we are on the subject on the EC175, what is the actuall delivery date? Still 2012?

[jbak62]

Hello,

Can anyone give me an approximate cost for the Simulator S-92 Pilot Recurrent Training (1 or 2 weeks?) and S-92 Initial Pilot Course (1 month) at Abderneed Training Center?

I would like to know how price for these S-92 courses compare to the same courses being offered by FSI at Farnborough?

Thanks for any information.

J

[jbak62]

Can anyone tell me how does the S-92 Simulator at Aberdeen compare to other available S-92 Training Facilities as far as cost for courses are concerned?:)

[FADEC225]

the easy way is direct to talk with simulater training manager for the cost.