The perpetual 'Am I too old?' thread

[Lightheart]

I'm 40. Have no family/children (yet.) or mortgage (had one) to concern myself with.

At 37 I started my flight training. When I went for my Class 1 medical the Spanish psychologist asked me "What the hell are you doing becoming a pilot at your age?"

I asked him who he was to tell me what I could or couldn't do. He didn't reply.

Got my FAA and JAA licences. Was away from my partner for 1.5 years and had to move back with my parents for a year. But I finally got there.

Flown commercially in USA/Carib (yes, paid to do a First Officer Programme.) So what! You do what you gotta do to get on in life. It was a strategy to overcome the age aspect. It worked. After that I made a vow never to pay for training again. And I haven't.

On returning to Europe was offered a job in the UK before even had my licence in my hand.

Left that job to return to Spain (for personal reasons). A market where aviation is not strong. "Don't do it!" people in Spain with more hours than me said.

If you're on a desert island, you have a choice. Survive or not. It is your choice. You decide what you want to manifest in your life.

So on arriving back in Spain I boarded planes, trains, cars, got on my bike and visited all aviation companies I thought I could get into. I got two job offers in 6 weeks!

Now I currently have two types current on my licence. I didn't pay for the rating either!

I'm living in a great part of the word, even though I'm in rented accommodation and I'm earning a third of what I used to earn. But hey, I know that as soon as I get to 1500 hours a lot more doors will open. My life has had many changes.

If you don't like change, don't take the plunge. But if you're like me, you now that in life change is inevitable. You want to get there no matter what the nay sayers say. You have to be FOCUSED, DISCIPLINED and SEE yourself there.

There's only so much anaylsis you can do. The fear part is not knowing how things will turn out. That's normal. But if you have faith, are confident in yourself and know how to listen to that voice in your soul, you'll know what to do.

Don't give away your power. Hope this has been of help.

[Lightheart]

I'm 40. Have no family/children (yet.) or mortgage (had one) to concern myself with.

At 37 I started my flight training. When I went for my Class 1 medical the Spanish psychologist asked me "What the hell are you doing becoming a pilot at your age?"

I asked him who he was to tell me what I could or couldn't do. He didn't reply.

Got my FAA and JAA licences. Was away from my partner for 1.5 years and had to move back with my parents for a year. But I finally got there.

Flown commercially in USA/Carib (yes, paid to do a First Officer Programme.) So what! You do what you gotta do to get on in life. It was a strategy to overcome the age aspect. It worked. After that I made a vow never to pay for training again. And I haven't.

On returning to Europe was offered a job in the UK before even had my licence in my hand.

Left that job to return to Spain (for personal reasons). A market where aviation is not strong. "Don't do it!" people in Spain with more hours than me said.

If you're on a desert island, you have a choice. Survive or not. It is your choice. You decide what you want to manifest in your life.

So on arriving back in Spain I boarded planes, trains, cars, got on my bike and visited all aviation companies I thought I could get into. I got two job offers in 6 weeks!

Now I currently have two types current on my licence. I didn't pay for the rating either!

I'm living in a great part of the word, even though I'm in rented accommodation and I'm earning a third of what I used to earn. But hey, I know that as soon as I get to 1500 hours a lot more doors will open. My life has had many changes.

If you don't like change, don't take the plunge. But if you're like me, you now that in life change is inevitable. You want to get there no matter what the nay sayers say. You have to be FOCUSED, DISCIPLINED and SEE yourself there.

There's only so much anaylsis you can do. The fear part is not knowing how things will turn out. That's normal. But if you have faith, are confident in yourself and know how to listen to that voice in your soul, you'll know what to do.

Don't give away your power. Hope this has been of help.

[boogie-nicey]

Good one Lightheart I am happy to read about your past experiences and pleased to see that you're getting there, well done. However was there really any need to give that poor medical officer a talking to like that ...? He might just have been inquistive or a bit of a tongue and cheek remark perhaps.

Anyway you have proved that with a though-through gameplan and discipline you can succeed I am happy to see it works.

Good luck to all ....

[Brachetta]

Hi folks, as an introduction, I tell you all my thing.
I’ve been PPL for 17 years but for different reasons I left the activity years back pursuing other career and interests.
After long time of working on different fields I found out that what I was doing wasn’t satisfactory for me, so the flight bug returned and stayed this time.
See, I’m 37 now, I will convert now my PPL to UAE compliance, will do immediately my instruments, multi, CPL and hopefully will get a job doing what we all here like.
Some say I’m mad, especially my girlfriend who only thinks of the long trips and not having me around for days…some other encourage me (less people, honestly) but hey, I don’t tell anybody when or what to do with their dreams, do I?
At the end of the day, I don’t see any better way of making a living than being what you like, and I just don’t want to say “if only” one day in the future.
So wish me luck if you will and see you around, air or land…
You guys take care.

[weltweites]

@Lightheart

Great info !!!
Im now at that age and trying to find the proper way how to achieve the goal, the only license i have at the moment is a gyro-license and i want to achieve much more... but the way to take is sometimes difficult to go.
I have a great job and everything is beeing paid.... am singel and free and also no credits or whatsoever .... and still im trying to go a way with the less riscy one.

I want to go for a PPL(JAA) in the US, hopefully later next year the "extras" like multi and instruments ... then if im still goin on ... ill do cpl/atpl here in europ.

Hope my message broughts some lights to other people too with some crazy thoughts like i have ;-) ;-)

To mention, my psychologist at the medical said ... go for it ;-) ;-) !!!
Heres also the reason why .......

i dont want to ask myself the time im retiring ... why didnt i try it ??!!!!!

[CJ2]

An acquaintance of mine asked my advice some time ago. He's 34 now and has planned to go for CPL next autumn. He asked if I think it is too late to start from zero at that age. Without giving second thought about it I told him to go for it if it is that he really wants. Anyone started at this age? Was it good or bad advice? :confused:

[Flying Squid]

Two guys on my groundschool were both approaching 40 so in short no it's not too old......risky perhaps but te level of risk very much depends on their personal circumstances.

[CJ2]

Well, he is owner of a successful business. So he has no financial issues if getting a job takes time. Told me that this is the thing he always wanted to do and will do it more for himself than making living out of it.

[Flying Squid]

Well if he is in the situation where money isnt an issue and he's not worried about making a career out of it in the next couple of years then I would say GO FOR IT!!!!! This is a great time to get some big discounts on training, FTO's are all fighting for survival so many will be open to some serious haggling!!!!

Good luck!

[castrohe]

I think this forum is great.

I am 32 years old and married.

I was looking for answers to my questions:

- Am I to old to become a pilot?
- I'm against the opinions of my parents and friends. Should I go on?

Many people gives their personal opinions and it is GOOD to hear others opinion. Sometimes shows others points of views.

In the end what's matter it's what we are feeling.

I have a though:

We are not lucky, we made our lucky". What I mean is, that we have to search the way to survive is this world and above of all enjoy it. We can stand for good days to go out, do we?

My wife supports me, she add the same fear as I.
Will I have a job when I finish the course?

We never now if we don't try.

We were thinking in buy a house, have kids, but I am not happy with my life, so we when I talk to my wife about this all of this plans have wait for the moment.
I do investigation in an Spanish University, but enough of this...

I need to realize my child dream. Become a pilot.

Thanks to all.

[merlinn]

Slight topic change here, but I notice some of the first threads were back in 2002! Would love to here from anyone that made it and stuck to their guns:ok:

[castrohe]

I would like to know what happen to Doc. There is a lot of great thread, this can toke me days to read all of them.

By this moment we could have a great point of view of Doc.

I am in a similiar situation right now, so it's very important to me to know how the doc story ends.

[Old Nick]

I've recently been made redundant from another professional career at the grand old age of 40.

I have a PPL, love flying, and looking to the positive am thinking of whether this is the kick up the backside I needed to get out of the 9-5 rut, do something different and do something I enjoy while getting paid for it: flying for a career.

I know that the recruitment market is dire at the moment, but the plan is that by the time I finish an integrated course, the economy will be sprouting some green shoots and the aviation industry, given its cyclicality, should be one of the first out of the blocks.

My only question is: at 40 am I too old to embark on this career change? Realistically, a mature novice FO coming out of a school has how much chance of getting a job (in normal times, not right now)? I've spoken to a few HR people at airlines and for good equal opportunities reasons none have said 'you're too old', but out there on the coal face - what are the real-world experiences of any other 40+ old farts who've tried this?

Thanks in advance.

[Grass strip basher]

Read stickies at top of the wanabees forum.
I would say you are pushing it given the current economic environment.
But if you are wealthy enough to not miss the odd £100k then why not have a crack?

[Reluctant737]

Young Nick,

Welcome, and well done on considering your situation. The answer to your question is no, you are not too old - I personally know of a lady aged 52 who began training a couple of years ago (aged 50) who is now FOing with EZY.

Of course I am sure there will be others who will read into this a lot more than I can, and may offer some more helpful advice.

But I've heard many successful stories, and I doubt the airlines will mind too much until you reach the grand old age of 50! Remember, this is a personal decision and nobody has the right to tell you you're too old, or don't have the ability to achieve it. You'll only end up having many sleepless nights when you're 80 - what if?

And personally, despite being only 20, I prefer flying with the older chaps :ok:

All the best and good luck,

[Old Nick]

Grass Strip Basher: "Read Stickies".

Yup - got it - thanks - and sorry for duplicating q's.

[Bealzebub]

And personally, despite being only 20, I prefer flying with the older chaps

A preference presumably borne out of the fact that there aren't many Captains under 20? :)

[Reluctant737]

Bealzebub,

Point taken :ok: In all seriousness, I much prefer flying with fellows of the 40+ age bracket, but then again, I've always got on better with people much older than myself!

Girls, on the other hand :E

[Adios]

If you need a kick up the back side at age 40 to "push" you into an aviation career, then perhaps you don't have the level of passion required. Flight training is not the most expensive way to have a midlife crisis, but it's darn close!

If this isn't a midlife crisis for you, then you've got a chance of succeeding. It will be tough, so be sure why you're really doing it before you jump in.

[ewsd02]

The most important thing is to be happy, so if you want to fly for a living, best just do it. As far as I am aware, you will still be in the age bracket for turbo prop airlines. They prefer more mature people as there is less chance of them bogging off to a jet airline as soon as they get the experience! Commercial instruction is another good career path.

The benefit you have over the 21 year old daddy funded/massive loan guy out of an intergrated course is that you have other skills to fall back on if you can't get a flying job straight away.

[5150]

As far as I am aware, you will still be in the age bracket for turbo prop airlines

You're still in the 'age bracket' for most airline jobs that may appear on your lists of wants/desires.

You just need to make allowances for the fact that you'll be joining a considerable 'heap' of licence holders after your training, in an industry that is making cuts on a large scale - in addition there are already many rated pilot's with many hours of experience on type who have lost, or will lose their jobs in the coming months, your claim to be first out of the blocks is somewhat ambitious !

I don't see any reason that at 40+, you're not as attractive, if not MORE attractive to an employer than someone half your age . . . You've still got 25 years work ahead of you, so I say go for it . . .

[BigNumber]

Being 40+ is not a disadvantage, infact it may well be an advantage!

In the age of SSTR, pay for Line Training etc, you are just as welcome in the 'airline' market as anyone else. More so.

Outside of the airlines there are a great many flying positions that would value your age and experience. My Biz Jet owner actually prefers guy's with your profile. We don't pay for our type ratings!!!!!

Follow your dreams - if you want it, go and get it!

[Sciolistes]

I can contribute with direct experience. I was 40 with 300 hrs when I was offered a 737 position after passing selection.

I don't think there any advantages to being older. It is difficult for me to suggest that there were significant disadvantages. I did fail one interview in vague circumstances. I think most people who have failed interviews with this business' practice of not providing feedback would feel the same.

Regardless, I definitely got the impression that during the assessment and selection processes that I passed there was no bias one way or the other. I was reliably informed by those organisations of a couple of airlines that outright would not consider me due to my age.

[ea340]

A good friend of mine started flying at 42 . Retired from IT started with a Flight Exc company at 50 as an F/O on a Turbo prop and is loving every minute of it.

[BigNumber]

MM,

It is a private owner, private operation held within the fabric of a much larger business.

Sorry to be so vague, but hope this contributes to the scope of the thread.

[Holryn]

I started flying when I was 32. I gained my CPL/MEIR back in 2005 and started applying for all sorts of jobs. I took a serious pay reduction to get more involved in an aviation career - money has never been motivating factor for me (and no, I don't have much of it either).

I only managed to get one assessment and sim check during the past three or so years. Last year I decided that the only way I was to keep going was to instruct so completed my Instructors course and have been instructing part-time ever since.

I turn 40 :( later this year and despite the fact that it has been financially very tough (and that's without the recession), for both me and my family, I have enjoyed every second along the way.

I'm still looking for that first job, instructing aside, and will continue to do so.

Go into it with your eyes open - I didn't expect a job offer to fall into my lap - and enjoy!! :ok:

[chrfri]

I was 40 when I started the ATPL-theory, took the last step, mcc, at 42. At 45 I got my first job, F/O on a small jet, have been there for 2,5 years now.

...and I am still married...:)

[alkatifa]

I reckon I'm just another 31 year old bloke thinking bout a serious career and lifestyle change. The flying bug is getting on me now, I just don't know where to start....

I love flying so much that I was even considering a cabin crew job, but I really picure myself as a comercial pilot. We really do have just one life, might as well just follow our gut!

[wannabe15]

That's right. Similar situation. Should be starting DL ATPL soon at a not so young age of 36.:} Dunno when i will complete, dunno whether there will be a job waiting thereafter... anyway

One life only, make full use of it! cheers

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Unless you are over 50 there is no age issue any more with any airline in the UK.

Those days died some years ago.

[Rugbyears]

WWW, with the risk of becoming too sentimental, I must say that I retain a great deal of respect for you old chap. In one particular thread you articulate you perception of the aviation industry and its association to the present economic crises/correction, advising all to assess their decision carefully. Yet you maintain the humanity to continue to offer assistance those of us who still choose to continue with this career path way.

Thank you..!:ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well, thanks for noticing. I get slated for being a harbinger of doom - true - but I realise many are too far in to stop and anything I can do to help I will do.

[SIMEFLY]

I am 42yrs old and looking for a career change to be come an airline pilot. At present i am a police officer but have previously served as cabin crew in the forces then with KLM UK.
I would like advice from anyone in terms of how to progress from PPL to frozen ATPL how much this will set me back???
I feel that its not too late for a career change but also have to think of my family. I am aware that it is a costly process, but in the long run providing i progress successfully will hopefully land!! with position with a major airline.

[quant]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

[BSmuppet]

Callum,

this coming from a guy who didn't read the stickies himself and asked about a Cpl straight after PPL+night

[Vems]

They got you 2 really good links, make yourself a cuppa, get some biscuits and read it ( it takes a while! trust me! :E)

Then, do a research ( internet, local flying schools etc.) Then, if you really can't find something you're looking for, post it here. You'll get a lot of replies, probably.

Good luck.

[dartagnan]

i can get you a job on the airbus. never too late. 42 years, IT'S PERFECT...airlines want s you cuz u are mature.

dont forget my cheque of 200'000$ for the cpl/mcc/line trining/ type rating and my %.:E

[nuclear weapon]

For your age I dont think its too late although we do have airlines that have an age limit but dont let that out you off.

[BigNumber]

There are some operations that 'prefer' an older candidate.

This has been discussed extensively in the 'Biz Jets' Forum.

IMO 42 years is not a bad age to start training. Best of Luck to you.

[Crazy Fokker]

Yes I have heard of people training and getting jobs in there forties. I guess it's just a case of pulling out all the stops on the research front etc....dig deep. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

As you said with a family to boot etc, planning etc is going to be more important than for a single 21 yr old with no ties...so just be thorough is my advice.

But it is possible.:ok:

[BigNumber]

Ah yes, but the 'no ties' 21 year old will always be looking for his next move!!!!

The 'OLD?' 42 Year old will possibly give many many years of loyal 'mortgage paying, kids' feeding' service!!

He's an attractive option! ( with a good 20 years of work in the old man yet! ) Again: Some Operations definitely prefer this profile.

Gotta go: I'm off to MRU :)

BN

[davkt]

Well I've just been made redundant from a senior civil service post so am re-evaluating my career options. One of the possibilities I'm considering is retraining as a pilot. Simple question, am I too old to start down that route at 44?
Cheers
David

[KAG]

You will retire before the oil peak, just perfect ;)

[neckache]

Evening Davkt

Im not that clued up on the ATPL side of things, i suppose it depends on what route you want to go down.

You could go the whole hog and put a large financial and time investment into a heavy commercial career, maybe some more experianced posters may point you in the right direction for that advice.

I know a few people who came out of long service jobs at 40-50 and went into aviation, two flight instructors at our club for example.

I sometimes think that at 29, i'm too old to be running down the commercial route, especially when you see these young lads/lasses driving the big stuff!!!:bored:

If you fancy it, go for it!:ok:

[Torque Tonight]

I have to say that I can't believe anyone is looking at commercial aviation at the moment and thinking that it looks like a good move. If you have the resources to take a punt and it's what you want to do, go for it, but I wouldn't fancy your chances. A good mate of mine, of a similar age to you, completed his CPL/IR/MCC with a creditable performance about a year ago. He has not had a single interview, let alone a job offer, and has decided to cut his losses, not renew his IR, and return to his previous job.

Unfortunately, many commercial operators favour youth in ab initio pilots, and even for those with age on their side, job prospects are dire. Between now and your mandatory retirement age you will probably make more money as a binman than a pilot. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[BigNumber]

Not at all David; IMO age has become rather less significant in recent times.. Infact, your age might even find favour with some employers. More, given your senior civil service experience and the 'golf bag' of skill that brings to the interview.

Good luck.

BN

[smith]

Can't see you landing a job until you are at least 50 and you may be too old by then.

[amostcivilpilot]

At 44 I am now starting to realise that I am already half way through my career!!!

However, would I start at this age?

I would say that I would, but subject to what I wanted to get out of it.

I have zero interest in flying the heavy metal. I am at heart a GA pilot and if I was in your position and was passionate about wanting a flying career then I would suggest a GA career is the way to go. It is possible to get into the big jets at this age but the reality is that the opportunities are slim.

Unfortunately too many people still see those of us who are over 30 as being too old to do somethng else with ourselves. I fully believe that if you really want something and are 110% committed to it then you should go for it.

However, at 44 after a previous career to Senior Level you have been made redundant and are looking for a new career path.

Have you asked yourself why you have waited so long to become a professional pilot?
Do you have any flying experience?
Do you have the support of your family?
Can you really afford to use your savings to spend 2 -3 years getting qualified and finding a suitable job?
Are you prepared to travel?
What do you want to fly, aeroplanes or helicopters?
Would your temperament allow you to go back to the bottom after being so close to the top?
Could you take instruction from a young 20 something instructor?
Wold you take the instructor route?
Could you instruct?

And very importantly. would flying allow you to plan a future where in effect you would only have around 15 years in the career to work with as a professional under present European rules?

Etc, etc......................

Flying is great fun . To some it is a vocation, something that you live and breathe and cannot do without. It is to me and to many that I know.

But I also know many others who grew up wanting to be pilots, got into the system and now find it is not for them and in certain cases simply do not enjoy it anymore, but need to stick with it because it is all they know or are too scared to take the jump and find something else to do.

I had one friend like this. He hated flying commercially, was still a permanent FO when I last heard about him and would have been much happier person and pilot if he had stuck to his original career path and remained a PPL.

I personally have gotten everything and more that I have wanted from my career. I have been in the military as aircrew, I have been an instructor, I am qualified to fly rotary and fixed wing, I have managed to work in other areas of aviation such as ATC, avionics, operations, etc. Everything I have done was based on the goal of achieving something new and developing an all round portfolio and it has gotten me into what I consider the best job any pilot could ask for. But I started at 16, married in my 30's so my single days were filled with flying and those other traditionally associated sports involving members of the flying community but not alway airborne :rolleyes:

Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.

:ok:

[2098]

I know of 3 chaps about your age that just got 'proper' flying jobs on biz jets. If you do take the plunge just make sure you have accounted for the worst case scenario...never getting a flying job.

Go modular :)

[Desk-pilot]

I think your answer depends upon where you see the industry in 2 years when you will be looking for a job and how much of a fallback plan you have if you don't get a flying job.

The majority of the industry are slightly ageist with a few exceptions - I know Flybe, BA and Jet 2 have all taken low hours entry approaching 40 and Flybe I know really don't care how old you are, fully recognising life experience can be a great asset on the flight-deck (I joined low hours at 38)

However I do believe that I only got the interview as an older chap because I went integrated and was recommended by OATS at a time when the airlines were approaching the flying schools wanting pilots. I do believe that if you are older and would prefer to go for airlines rather than spending years working your way up from instructing (which is fine if you're 22 but not so great if you're 40 with kids and a mortgage) then the extra £10k by going integrated made little different to the loan repayments and a world of difference in helping me secure employment.

It's just my experience,

Desk-pilot

[Clintonb]

So im a bit confused whether age matters in this industry. im 23 going onto 24 and been thinking for the past year about doing flight training from ppl all the way up to ATPL.. i tried to get into a school in march this year but missed the pass mark by 1 point to get accepted, so i been searching around for other schools US,Europe,Australia,South pacific, South Africa etc but i ask myself do i need to do it now?

theres still so much of the world i want to see and do, do i really want to sit down and do 2 years of intense studying and training right now and then try work, when i can possible do it later on in my life? As i said ill be 24 in couple months so im not getting any younger and few of my pilot friends tell me i should start straight away with training while i can as i dont have many obligations right now rent, own a car, wife,kids etc

So i was wondering is it ok to hold off flight training for 2 or maybe 4 years and come back into it later in life when im say 28 and then bust out 2 years training?

any insight to this would be much appreciated.

safe flying

[hollingworthp]

Age is a very OLD question (excuse the weak and accidental pun) and has been covered ad infinitum.

Have a look at the sticky thread at the top of this section with READ FIRST BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION in the title for some links to a few of the very numerous previos threads on age.

Ps I was 29 when I started training

[Clintonb]

hey thanks for reply. so what you flying now? im just worried that companies will take the younger guy over older and more knowledgeable.

trust me ive been in that sticky and tried those threads and all i got was this "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" and thats it or i wouldn't be asking this question again.

anyways thanks agin for replying.
safe flying

[KUMOOZ]

Well, there could be mileage in some thread creep in establishing the oldest 'newbie'.

I was 41 when I started pilot training, my training partner was 45. Go see the world and come back when the industry is in a healthier state.

Even better, choose another career. I am afraid the bean counters and fun police have :mad: this one!

Good luck

[redsnail]

In some countries, age is an issue, or perhaps more correctly "age commensurate with experience".

eg, in Australia, starting at 40 would be considered too old to have a viable career where as 25 is better, 20 ideal. (Note, these are generalisations)

You will need a "buffer" in your age, that is, you need to be young enough to weather the financial storms that blow every 7-10 years dumping pilots onto the market. It is therefore a smart move not to be carrying too much debt so you are flexible in where you go and what job you pick up.

Research the countries where you intend to work and find out their normal hiring policy.

Holding off for a couple of years won't hurt so long as you save your money so you can hit it full time. Otherwise, you may as well start sooner and do it part time.

[Halfwayback]

This is a collation of the posts since 2009 and any subsequent thread will be merged here.

Halfwayback

[Miss Behavin]

Hi All,

I've been reading Pprune for a quite a while, never really having the guts to post my questions.

I'm a little excited waiting for the footie to kick off, in a little under an hour so optimistically excited about things,,,so here goes:

In line with this thread, and I too old to re-train as a pilot.

I'm 32, an accountant
wanting to go modular, in order to speed up/down my training in line with industry recovery/downsides
oh, and I'm a girl

you thoughts please?

Thank you

[redsnail]

At 32 for the UK market, you're not too old.
Personally, I would make sure I have finished by 35 though.
Again, this is just my opinion, I don't do recruiting.

Gender is not an issue with your colleagues or employers. You may have minor issues with some of the destinations but I have workarounds for that.

Now, being an accountant? That's your major hurdle. ;)

[Miss Behavin]

Thanks Redsnail,,,I appreciate your comments
Yep, heard all the jokes associated with being one of "them" ;)
Agree with 35 being the target.
Apologies, for sounding a little confused or dim, but what do you mean by maybe having minor issues with some of the destinations?
As for your workarounds, I'm all ears,,,,,,,,,,

[redsnail]

Oh destinations where women aren't an equal citizen. I just tell the FO what we need (consult etc) and let him deal with the person who won't talk to me.

Easier than getting angry.

[Miss Behavin]

Ah ha. Gotcha!
Learnt a few crucial points about you from your last post.
Very inspiring.
Thanks for your words to my original post. I needed to hear them from someone in the business.
Regards
Miss B

[Whirlygig]

Now, being an accountant? That's your major hurdleReddo ... you cruisin' for a bruisin'? :}

Cheers

Whirls

[TSR22]

Hey guys!

Just heard from a chap who got charged a load of money for a Ryanair interview/sim check, and was then told "off the record" that he was too old for the job anyway - and that no-one else would be interested..:ugh:

He is 36.

This has got me worried:{ - I'm 33 this month and can't start the CPL until my wife finishes her maternity leave in 6 months time - so I'm going to be pushing it and probably end up in the same situation! :(

So - realistically, what are the age limits? Can I still break into the industry in my mid 30s - and more to the point... how?

Thanks in advance for all constructive comments!

TSR22 (I know the extra 2 shouldn't be there - it was a typo I couldnt change..!!)

P.S. Not just thinking about the big jets here - turboprops would suit me just fine..

[Leezyjet]

Utter :mad:

There is still every chance that you will make a good career in aviation starting in your mid 30's. You still have 30+ years left to fly.

Some operators prefer older career changers as they can bring more to the position than a 20 y/o who has never worked anywhere else before.

If that really is the case for FR, it explains why I haven't heard from them, oh well their loss and has saved me £30k + !!.

:)

[MagicTiger]

I have completed my CPL, and I am 40. (Profile typo). I have heard of pilots over 40 getting jobs with Ryanair, if that is your goal. Personally I would not mind working for them, once you get going I don't think is that bad.

There will be mixed messages on this, but you are defo not to old now, or in 6 months. TP seems to have maybe more chances, just cross our fingers and hope for the best.
Retirement age is 65, so there is still few years left to get some flying done. At the moment there are no jobs anyway, so not really a major rush. But get going with the ATPL's and class 1 medical - and take it from there. CPL you do in one month, the ATPL's is a different story.
Had a newborn baby when I started - after a while your wife will maybe not appreciate so much the studies - because they really become time consuming. Did them in 6 months, full time - distance learning can be hard for some, but things you should get out of the way as soon as possible. Then you can see if it is still for you.
Also instructing is an option for the future, not now at the moment, but when the airlines start hiring that will probably be the first step in the right direction to get enough experience.

[PAPI-74]

Don't worry, I was 31 when I started and 33 when I got my 1st airline job (via a bit of instructing).
Your age makes you interesting and there are other airlines out there. TP - as mentioned - are a good option and Jet2 are a good bet (when they recruit again).

[aviator78]

Hi, I need some advice.

I'm 32 and have been accepted to train at a UK Training Academy. My concern is my age. When I finish my training I will be nearly 34 and I have been told that I will struggle to find a job with a good airline such as Easyjet, Ryaniar, BA. etc because of my age.

I need honest advice from people in the industry who were the around the same age as me before I spend £75,000 and end up struggling.

Thanks

[InSoMnIaC]

Hi Aviator78

First of all I just want to say, Don't be concerned about your age.. you are not too old. in fact your age could work out to be an advantage in landing a job after your training. Many airlines out there value real world experience especially if your experience is seen as something that will make you a better/more mature pilot.

Having said that I would like to bring to your attention that finding a flying job can be very difficult even with thousands of hours of experience and more so when you are stating out. So be prepared for a lot of rejection until you land that first Job.

1 last bit of advice.. If you do decide to take the leap then be very sure that it is what you really want to do because life as a pilot means you will probably need to sacrifice many little things that one takes for granted when working a 9 to 5 job.

I wish you success in whatever road you decide to take.

[charliegolf]

Absolutely not.

But the wiser question (and you've alluded to it yourself) is, "Am I young enough to spend £75k on a qualification, and maybe still have to find a new way to pay my bills?"

Good luck.

CG

[Farrell]

REPOSTED....

Your age will not be a hindrance to you getting a job.
However...remember that despite the glossy brochures and the "holier-than-the-rest" flight school that is Oxford Aviation, they are simply not in a position to offer, guarantee, find, assist or garner you a job in any way.

If they are so concerned about your age being a factor then I have two questions:

Why are they "approving" or "accepting" you on the course?

Why are you agreeing to risk 75 grand on training?

The fact is, you can get your training done for a hell of a lot less and STILL HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING A JOB AT THE END OF IT ALL!

This bull**** about where you go to school being influential on where you get a job has to stop.
Consumer watchdogs take note.

This business is all about WHO you know!
Those of you who got into a flying gig without an internal contact, number a very lucky few.
Everyone else....knew someone on the inside.

That, my dear wannabes, is the reality of the industry you are entering.
If you are not good at making friends and networking.....you'll be a paper-pilot forever!

Farrell

[tonker]

41 this year and have been flying the 737 for just under 5 years. Stop making excuses. The only risk is yourself and how determined you really are. Plenty of older pilots in our company.

Regards

[potkettleblack]

Flying really is a young mans game these days, for a number of reasons. Firstly the pay is pretty crap when you take into account the loss of weekends, Christmases, kids birthdays, important events, getting up early being away from home etc etc.

Younger pilots starting say in their early to mid 20’s have the age advantage. By that I mean they can take a job to build their hours and then move on to a better carrier not caring about things like seniority. They could get a few thousand hours in Ryanair and jump across to someone like BA (assuming they were hiring), sit in the RHS for arguments sake for 10 years on a 777 seeing the world and then still only be in their mid 30’s when command comes around. Seniority isn’t really a factor for them as they will have approximately 25-30 years in the LHS once promoted to move up the list and enjoy all of the benefits that entails. They could also have spent a few years in the sandpit building up their experience before heading back to Western Europe. Nothing would have been wasted as they were young enough to enjoy the experience.

Remember that the days of quick commands are gone for now. There are long lists and a wait of 8-10 years at most of the airlines these days as recruitment and expansion has dried up. ICAO has pushed out the retirement age which means the guy sitting in the LHS isn’t going anywhere fast. Even more so since their pension has probably been decimated in the current recession and they will need to be working longer to save for retirement. That means you will be in your mid to late 40’s at the earliest before you see a command. You will more than likely be flying as a 40 year old f/o with a captain who could be 10 years or more your junior and will have 30 years of sitting in the LHS that you want so much. If you decide to switch airlines then you drop to the bottom of the seniority list and may never see a command and be a career f/o so to a degree you will be hamstrung.

Now I am not saying that anyone in their mid 30’s or later shouldn’t become an airline pilot but please be under no illusion of what you are getting yourself into.

[Atreyu]

Given the way the industry is right now, it doesn't matter if you're 20, 30 or 40, there are hardly ANY jobs available for anyone. Until one of the big movers starts a decent sized recruitment drive, expect a stagnant jobs market for some time to come...

Atreyu:ok:

[shaun ryder]

I have been told that I will struggle to find a job with a good airline such as Easyjet, Ryaniar,

Laughs out loud, they really are spinning the BS there nowadays.

[colourblindgeek]

Well, a fellow PPL student is currently on the Cathay Pacific Cadet scheme. I thought he was wasting his time filling out the application form - he was 35.
He's currently in New Zealand - training with Cathay Pacific. He'll be nearly 37when he finishes.
If its good enough for Cathay Pacific then I'm sure that the thirties are just fine.
Another chum was 41 when he started his ATPL theory - now flies Biz Jets.
Another is a Training Captain for EasyJet - PPL and instructing from age 34 - F/O for EZY aged 39.
I can think of another 2 who started at about 34 and are now F/O's - one at Jet2.com the other Ryanair.
Sure by the time I get to be 60 they'll have upped the retirement to 70 so I've got 33 years flying ahead of me.

[Tana-Airlines]

I'm really happy to read all these things. I was think that at 26 I was "almost old" already! It's really nice to see that some other people make it, even at 35/40yo!

At that age, the good point is that you have probably loooaads of finance available! Hehe!

[TSR22]

Hey - thanks guys!

It's good to see that people on this forum, whether already there, or trying to get there are supportive :ok:
I think that by your 30's you are much more sure/realistic when considering such large financial adventures - and many of us by that time have worked in non 9-5 jobs so have some idea of what is involved.

I just hope that we can all make it - I'm going to give it a damn good try! :cool:

TSR

[aviator78]

thanks for all the advice and experiences, greatly appreciated.....however i've got the impression that many pilots are unhappy with their job, is that really the case?

[Farrell]

however i've got the impression that many pilots are unhappy with their job, is that really the case?

Yes it is.
The glory days of aviation are slowly but surely disappearing.
As a thirty something, you will I am sure remember things like flight engineers, proper nav with slide-rules, real gauges and pilots who were treated with respect.

The above is now more or less all gone.
Airlines are run by people who are geo-anatomically challenged (they know not their arse from their elbow) when it comes to what happens on a flightdeck, or before and after a flight - especially around the area of Human Factors!

Take here in the Middle East, for example.
Or check out the Emirates or Qatari threads.

Days off are constantly invaded by Crewing (wobbles head) who either did not realize you were on a rest day - or more than likely knew, didn't give a stuff and called you out of bed anyway, then take the hump when they're told to sod off!

Standby days are no longer standby days - they are days off for your less than scrupulous colleagues who like nothing better than to f*ck you over in exchange for a few more hours sleep.

The cadet schemes are all but gone, and it is beginning to show in the quality of some new jet-jockeys.

Guys over here call Met to find out what the weather is like at destination and use that to determine whether or not they are fit to fly.....a crosswind over 15kts or OVC on the TAF is enough to send a few folks here into a state of apoplexy.

Getting leave is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
Allowances are being eroded away and some pilots are getting ditched because they can be replaced by self-sponsored, debt-ridden newbies who are willing to work for a handful a rice a week and enough salary for a monthly loan repayment.
They will even buy their own uniform!

The dream sir, has fallen on it's arse, rolled over and died!

Farrell

[windypops]

There are "still" some cracking employers out there though, in EASA land too. So it's not all bad.

[wilky]

Guys i've tried to follow the link of the "too old threads" and "age threads" from the archive links page but they are not working.

Started my PPL a couple of years ago with aim to achieve ATPL but took seriously ill and have been on hold for 2 years. Treatment done and given a clean bill of health i'm looking to carry on to get my ATPL modular whilst still working. I work 2 weeks away and get 3 weeks off so can get this done faster than the average modular route I think.

I'm 29 now, 30 in May and hopefully finished up by time i'm 31. Recession aside and obviously nobody has a crystal ball of wat the industry will be like then, is 31-32 too old for serious consideration for employment?

This must have been asked a few times so please accept apologies but the links dont seem to work on the archived links thread.

Many thanks

[redsnail]

wilky, short answer. No. :ok:

[wilky]

thank you red snail, onwards and hopefully upwards, if employment continues to get harder I can adjust training accordingly.

Thanks for the reply.

[dwshimoda]

No.

Finished at 34 at probably the start of the worst employment period for a long time.

A few up and downs (mainly downs!) but now well over 1,000hours B757 and loving the job...

Go for it.

DW.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Quit my job at 34, modular ATPL, first job at 35 (lucky me). 3,500 hours in shiny jets by now and loving it :-)

Go get it.

P

[hasell]

Hi,
So further down in this forum there's a thread on youngest FO. Looking at this another way. Rightly or wrongly there seem to be fair number of mid-life career changers out there who want to fly commercially.
So my question is ...do you know of/can give examples of relatively inexperienced FOs who joined operators -and were/are beyond their mid-thirties...

Cheers.

Has

[BigNumber]

Yep; I know of several. (Don't believe the "you are too old cobblers!!" It's utter rubbish.)

One example joined Air Southwest with age circa 50 years and did rather well ie P1 / Trainer etc.. deservedly so.

Another mate flys the Phenom 100 - he was 47 prior to his career change.

These two examples are the tip of the ice berg.. grey cockpits are the way ahead.


BN

[Busbar]

Yes I know of two guys that were on my course at Flight School. When we started the ATPL ground school, one was early 40's and the other late 40's. Both were successful - one is now an SFO with EZY on the Airbus A319 and the other flies B737-800's for a Middle Eastern carrier. Good blokes to :D

It can be done, there is the proof! :ok:

[CommunicationsOne]

Thanks for these inspiring stories!

At age 41 and just coming out of a compeletly different carreer, I just got my FAA PPL in November and am now working towards flying commercially, too. The plan is in place and if everything goes right I should have a commercial license no later than spring 2012.

And - yes - I too had these thoughts of "am I too old?" But I agree to the writers before me: if this is your dream then you need to go for it. AND it has been my dream since I was a little girl.

Blue skies!

[nrl1965]

Hello all

Well it's like this; I'm 46years old recovered from cancer of the head and neck, I now have my PPL A and a night rating and 60 hours. Can I get a F ATPL and if I did would I be able to get work?
before I start spending too much cash, I would like someone else s opinion please.
Thanks all
NRLhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

[downwind24]

Crikey , firstly well done on your personal battle against that terrible disease :D

Do you have a current class 1 medical? If not this would be the first stage along the way , im 36 and just finishing the CPL/MEIR and train with mostly 20 somethings. Too old? well who knows , iv been told i am on a few occasions , i suppose its down to the type of work you want. I would be happy short haul or regional and id also like to instruct so in my mind im not.

Whatever you decide Good luck :)

[Whirlygig]

SO very well done for beating that pernicious disease - more power to your elbow and completely understandable that you have a different outlook on life and different ambitions.

As we're the same age, I trust that what I'm going to say will not be misconstrued .... Your first step must be the Class 1 medical. Call them at Gatwick and explain the cancer to them. It may well be a bar but you will find them helpful and may require your medical records. Secondly, us oldies can have other things go wrong with our bodies which we might not be aware of; hearing, eyesight, etc.

Secondly, if it's the airlines you're after, you might find an element of ageism. The perception could well be that someone of our years may not be prepared to work for a second officer's salary nor be prepared to work with a captain who could be younger. However, maturity will likely be an advantage for instructing or working for smaller operators in charter/VIP work etc.

As I'm sure you've worked out, there is not a lot of work out there but, if you are going to fly anyway using your PPL, the marginal cost of the exams and instruction for the CPL course will not be that great. While you're doing the hour building, try to make as many contacts as possible; it's more likely that you'd get work through word of mouth and networking when it comes to the smaller operators.

Only you know your finances si I would recommend you start costing the flight training and work out the minimum income you would whilst a) training and b) as a salary. I'm guessing that you have another career on which you can fall back.

Basically, I reckon it's do-able but it won't be easy in this economic climate.

Cheers

Whirls

[nrl1965]

My next call is to the CAA as you have pointed out I currently only have a Class 2 medical, this call could potentially stop me in my tracks, well slow me down, I never give up, probably why I'm still here and not pushing Daisey's
Thankfully the CAA already have all my Medical records from my oncologist, so have to see how they interpret them, I've now been all clear for three years and improving every year.
I do have a back up career, and a young family so if all goes well I'll use the modular rout.
My parents have a friend who flies for a well known record sales man airline owner and space travel and so on. not sure on eyesight rules for ATPL ?
Its OK,I'm not bothered about age of those in charge, I use to be an RAF Engineer so use to it, now a teacher so have 20 to 30, 11 to 16 year olds telling me what to do on a daily basis.
Thanks to you both it looks like I may still get that dream career I always had since the age of 6.

[Mr Grimsdale]

nrl1965, here are the CAA Class 1 eyesight requirements for the initial medical (things relax a bit for the renewals).
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/InitialJARClass1Sep09.pdf

Have a chat with your optician and see if you fall inside them or not.

Best of luck!

[welliewanger]

Technically there shouldn't be a problem (medical issues aside) but some airlines don't like having to teach old dogs new tricks. You may be the most versatile quickest learner ever, but I'm sure that some HR departments will dismiss your CV purely based on this.

[fabbe92]

Hello my fellow aviators, I have a small concern wich has bothered me for the last month now. I am about to turn 19 years old in march and I will graduate from upper secondary this june (wich is the graduation age in my country). I have been thinking for the last year and, I have come to the conclusin that a university degree before flight training is the best option.

However, I am quite stressed about this and I have a feeling that the 3 years at univeristy will be prescious time wasted. for a UK citiszen it´s easier because you graduate from upper secondary earlier and can finish university at a very young age. In my case however, I will be graduating from university at the age of 22 and by doing the modular training, I will be around 24-26 when finished with my training. Seeing that in many cases, it takes a couple of years to get the first flying job. I will probably be over 30 when I get into the RHS on a jet or turboprop. Maybe this won´t leave any time for my ultimate dream of being a training captain on a longhauer, some time in the future.
Will this not limit my chances of a long and prospective career? By jumping straight into flight training, I could graduate at the age of 21-22 and therefore get a job and get on to a seniority list sooner. Perhaps it is possible to get a degree after completing flight training?

I feel a bit stressed since it´s time to apply for further education and to decide wich way my life should hed next. I would really appreciate some good advice wich can give me some perspective. and just to be clear, I know that there are no jobs available right now and that I may well have to do some instructing and other types of flying jobs before I get my first chance with an airline. I know this but, being an airline pilot is my dream and I am prepared to fight for it.

[redsnail]

nrl1965, firstly congrats on beating cancer. That is one major hurdle you've overcome. :)

Ok, the ATPL thing. You're never too old etc. However, you may be too old to get a reasonable return on the investment.

The medical. The UK CAA are pretty harsh about cancer. I have a couple of mates who are going through the waiting game right now after losing their Class 1 because of cancer. So, good luck, but don't be surprised if they say no.

What you and only you can work out is can you afford the cost of training without seriously impacting you and your family's financial future. If they are ok with you spending (admittedly your money) on a CPL & IR and thus possibly missing out on holidays, uni whatever may come up then it's ok.
But you really do have to sit down and objectively go through the costs and what you'll need to give up.

Nights out & holidays & new cars become "hours".

Your dream is (now) your family's dream. Make sure they're in on it.

That's just the cost of training. You'll be about 48 or so by the time you've finished, possibly older.

If your goal is to be a captain on a 744, sorry, you are too late.
If your goal is to be a captain on a short haul 737 or A320, then you might just make it but more than likely, not.
If you want to instruct then age isn't an issue, may be a help (especially your background) but bare in mind you won't make a lot of money.
If your plan is to keep the "day job" and instruct on the weekends, I can see no problems other than lost time at home. (it could be a good thing ;)

If you want the CPL/IR as a reward for beating cancer then that's ok too. Why not? Although, to be honest, I'd rather see you go and have a huge flying holiday renting a bugsmasher and flying around Australia (a bit flooded at the mo) or Canada. That'll be worth something. You'll do something far fewer people have done. :ok:

Before all the apologists come on and bleat about "it's not about the money", try buying a trolley load of groceries with your log book. It won't work.
My log book(s) has over 7,000 hours in and Tesco's just laughed.
Sainsbury's took one look at my battered green book and threatened me with security.

The harsh economic truth is that you have a limited time to make up the money you'll have spent plus save for retirement.

I wish you the very best of luck.

[Genghis the Engineer]

PLEASE, read the other several dozen threads on this subject already. There's nothing in your question that's not been answered many times already.

G

[YYZ]

Thousands of threads cover this sort of question, short answer in no, if you can get a job then you will be fine, you are a lot younger than most so do your degree and get something to fall back on.

YYZ

[Paul H]

I don't think you've got anything to worry about. It depends on how much you really want to become a training captain. Let me briefly explain my position.

I left school (UK) at 17, and then went to college for two years. I left at 19, then took a year out to work as I had no idea what I really wanted to do. My plan was to join the RAF as a pilot, but that dream was torn apart when I went for a 4 year check up at hospital. My consultant told me that a minor heart problem that should be gone, had actually gotten worse. Heart surgery was the only option. At this point I abandoned flying all together, assuming that I would never be a pilot with such a medical history.
I chose to go to University at 21 to study Astrophysics, as my passion for astronomy has never gone away. In 2006 at age 25, I graduated with an Masters in the same subject.
After realising that Astrophysics was not really that enjoyable as a career, I looked back at avitation. I went to Gatwick and got a 1st class medical (although it took 7 months to get the paper work due to complications between the CAA and my consultant).
April 2008, now 26 I start my PPL. 2 and a half years later, now aged 29, on 2nd Sept 2010 I pass my PPL and start building hours. I'm enroled to start my ATPL theory in April. We'll see how it goes from there.

Only two months ago, I had almost the same conversation with two young (early 30's) junior FO's flying for BMI out of Heathrow. They both told me not to worry, as getting a job in my 30's would not be a worry, as that is the average age that pilot's are recruited.
Having a degree or Masters on your CV might even increase your chances of being called to interview.
If the S**T hits the fan and I can't get an Airline job, at least I have two degrees to fall back on. Hopefully I've got all corners covered.

You have plenty of time. I even met a pilot last year who got a job at 42.:D

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just look at Brian May - music career petered out, went back to Astrophysics. Win-Win !

G

[The500man]

I chose to go to University at 21 to study Astrophysics... In 2006 at age 25, I graduated with an Masters in the same subject.
After realising that Astrophysics was not really that enjoyable as a career...


Absolutely priceless! :ok:

[downwind24]

Did Brian May have a music career ?? :E

[high_light]

Another similar situation for me - i'm 42 so rather old to be changing career. However I was wondering if my current career will benefit and compensate slightly for my age?
I'm a police officer and work at a Police Air Support Unit, as an observer. My unit is one of the units earmarked to be closed next year which is why i'm considering the move.
I was hoping the experience of working as part of a crew in police air operations may help? Any thoughts appreciated.

[4015]

high_light

I can't say for certain, but here are my observations (no pun intended)

You are aware of MCC factors and how they can affect efficient operation of an aircraft. You've probably got a fair few contacts, and in aviation networking is everything as far as I can see.

But that's about it (it is late, so I may be missing some fundamental points). The difference between Police chopper work and flying the big jets is huge. You'll definitely have something to talk about at interview however!

What licence are you going for, (A) or (H)? Where do you want to end up? What are your aims for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years?

Just my (tired) tuppence worth, I am by no means an expert. But if you want something enough, what's to stop you getting it?

4015

[dmjs15]

Stats: 45 years old, FAA CFI/CFII/MEI, 850 hours, but only 10 hours flown (per year) and no instruction given for the past 8 years.

So, before I invest in getting some recent hours and any Bridge or Fast Track programs, does anybody have any thoughts on the Regionals and if the would hire me at my age (USA or any other country). I know many Majors around the world would not consider a candidate at my age as a new recruit.

[hollingworthp]

Shall we just say Yes to save you having to look through the 100's of posts on here all asking the same question?

Here is a small snippet from the sticky post above:
Are you too old to begin training? This has been covered hundreds of times; the threads included here are just a selection!

The perpetual 'Am I Too Old? And How Old Is Too Old?' thread (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418583-perpetual-am-i-too-old-thread-2010-a.html)

Too Old to Get A Flying Job? (http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/129943-too-old-get-flying-job.html)

Age A Problem? (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/4372-age-problem.html)

[Aussiestinger]

Hi,

I'm currently 29 and considering a change in profession, I wanted to see at my age, whether or not it would be too late to consider a move into the commercial world of piloting. Although it’s possible that I'm not too late, I'm making an uneducated guess there would be a ceiling of the type of work and or aircraft that I would be capable of flying given my starting age. I'm hoping someone on here would be able to clarify this, so as I can make an educated decision about my next step.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[zondaracer]

You make 29 sound so old. You are still young enough to get in the game without a ceiling on this career. You still have over 30 years if you start now.

[ford cortina]

I started at 33, first job at 37 on B737 Classic and NG.
Lots of friends well in to their 30's and even 40's with Jet aircraft jobs.
BTW we are all in JAA land:cool:

[Aussiestinger]

I can't begin to thank you enough! I had asked a South African pilot here in Afghanistan who was adamant I was too old to start a career in aviation. I guess the next step is the right school, thanks again for the feedback!
:ok:

[captainsuperstorm]

age is not the probleme these days, the problem is to get enough cash to pay for line training and make a profession where you will never be paid.

so can you afford a life of rich boys? are you confortable when employers will spit in your face when telling you :" how much do you give me to fly my airbuses?for me you are a sucker"

don't belive all the **** of people who tell you "yeah, can do it, I am now on 737..."

[James78Au]

Ive just started my training and Im 33 now. I asked a lot people the same question there seems to be a lot of people starting and getting their first jobs in the 30s

[Genghis the Engineer]

Oh for goodness sake, I was well past 30 before people stopped saying I was too young to be given any real responsibility.

Anybody under 45 now is unlikely to retire below 70 anyhow - don't get caught up in the cobblers cult of youth that pervades the world these days. Sooner or later we'll have a series of "Dobby the over-50 vampire slayer" and it'll all settle down again to a realisation that if you can get the medical, do the job, and have at-least 10 years before mandatory retirement, and you're fine.

G

[Mimpe]

as long as you handle the study, your age can be a " maturity " advantage. I find guys starting really young can sometimes be a greater risk in terms of safety attitude

[built4flying83]

i find the older guys get promoted quicker as the bosses feel sympathy for them when paying such low salaries, not so much for the 23yr old punk!
tried any cadetships?

[built4flying83]

mimpe, regards to your comment about younger guys being a safety issue sometimes, maybe but i have found the opposite to be true. The older guys in a different industry (mining, electrician, mechanic) tend to be abit more gung ho and rough around the edges and less likely to do what they are told when they switch over to aviation

[SloppyJoe]

Try the cathay cadet scheme, many guys getting into that whilst in their 30s. Good program if you have 0 hours or close to it, not so if you are already on your way to having descent experience.

Just bear in mind that you will be pretty much locked into CX until you are 37-40 living in HKG before you have the experience to go back to Aus. Don't count on a base.

[KAG]

Becoming a pilot is not that easy, an happy one is even more difficult.
The secret of success doesn't hide in the fact of having 24 or 29 years old.
Age is not a problem, especially 29, you are young. you still have more than 40 years to work. Question shouldn't be about age. It should be about the viability or not to be a pilot for the next 40 years... And here I can see an issue...

[YYZ]

Loads of info on this subject already, luck plays a large part along with who you know, the industry seems ok at the moment but that can change overnight.
I was 28 when i started and fly a 777 now at the age of 37, it can be done but its a difficult path to follow.

Good luck

[JB007]

Have to agree 100% with KAG, age is not an issue, you are young enough to embark on Pro Pilot training, what you should look into is what opportunities are available to you on the other side of completing and passing your IR test. What jobs are available for low-houred pilots and how the market is developing for your future earning potential.

Carrying lots of debt (?) and no job, starting out down the pilot road could end up been a miserable existence. You are old enough to not join the 'Wannabe Zombie Army' so go in with very wide open eyes...

[redsnail]

The bloke's in Australia. It's not the same market as Europe.
At 29 you're starting to get onto the back end of the drag curve wrt experience commensurate with age.

It's not impossible but I wouldn't waste "too" much more time contemplating it if you're going to do it and become successful.

[Aussiestinger]

I appreciate the time taken and your feedback given that so many before me have asked similar questions. :ok:

Is there any evidence to suggest that getting your privates pilot license and then applying for a cadetship puts you in better stead for selection?

[SloppyJoe]

Yes it does as shows you do actually want to do it as are investing your own cash in it rather than applying just to see. Specifically talking about the CX one. Your 29, their main thinking will be why have you not done any flying if you want to be a pilot? Assume you are just getting out of the military so you have a good reason but if you are serious about it at least have a few lessons before sending off the app, it may not be for you, who knows, if it is then continue with the PPL whilst waiting to hear back from them.

Dont just send an app and wait, it can be a long wait.

Would also suggest trying to get a job near home for a small outfit with some singles and also twins whilst waiting for a reply about cadetships, doing your PPL in spare time. Job doing anything, loading bags etc as if cadetships don't pan out you will be working for them for well over a year if you do your flight training whilst working and will have a great set of contacts, also if you know them they are likely to give you a flying job when you have the experience if you dont meet their requirements straight away when one becomes available.
(maybe dont mention you are waiting to hear back about cadet courses)

A lot easier said than done but in Aus, unlike Europe, if you don't get on a cadet scheme you have to work your way up the ladder and cant just buy your way into work.

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme.html

If it is the CX one you are considering then pretty much all you need to know is here. Pros and cons.

Personally I think it is by far the most superior cadet scheme in terms of what you have to invest and what prospect you get in return for someone with little or no experience. eg, almost $0 investment (maybe tickets to get to first interview) and if you make it, in 6-7 years you will have 1000 hours on a widebody jet as an FO.

Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/flight_deck_crew)

Expect you have checked out both links before but just in case you have not.

[1Wingnut]

I changed careers and got my private pilot's license at 40. I am now about to turn 46, and I have 4000 hours, and 3 type ratings. I just finished a contract in Saudi Arabia that paid $9000 USD a month, with housing and car provided. 30 is nowhere near being to old. The reason I was able to advance quickly is because I have no attachments, and I am free to take jobs anywhere in the world. Also, the job market for pilots really oscillates between feast and famine. I was able to ride the job market to a pretty high peak before the economy crashed. Now it seems the aviation job market is on the verge of a comeback. If you can quickly work your way up to a commercial multiengine license, you may find many opportunities available in the next few years. I say go for it. :ok:

[Aussiestinger]

I can't begin to thank you guys enough for the valuable information supplied! :DI was already highly charged about shifting careers, but the feedback I have received has pumped me even further! Sorry I get excited easily! I've waited many years to be in a position to afford to fly and my time has come and I'm stoked!

I've already made plans to immediately begin my private pilot’s license upon my return to Aus.

Cheers guys!:ok:

[captainsuperstorm]

no problem aussi, give me 100'000$ and I can get you a "job", even at 100yo, I can find you something!

I don't understand all this idiots who try to renter into this market with their own money , when the market doesn't want them.

are people a bunch of retards?

[Sheilas_Wheels]

This is my first post on this site so I do apologise if I've posted this in the wrong forum or this topic as been repeated around a 1000 times, but I like many who post on this site would love if you could aid me with my predicament with your aviation wisdom! It would be much appreciated!

Like everyone on this forum it as always been my ambition to become a pilot, and at the grand old age of 25 I'm not getting any younger so I want to at least try and live the dream as they say! Now I'm not naive, I no this country (uk) is practically on it's backside thanks to the recession and competition for jobs is greater than it's ever been, but I'm not afriad to work hard to get the job I haven't dreamt of doing for so long!

Sorry for all the waffle!

With me being 25 do you feel it's to old to start from scratch to become a pilot!

I'm very confused on which route to go rather with a school like Oxford, ctc or go for it on my own. I have got the money for my ppl and I can afford up to my cl. I have been down to Oxford before for the easy jet mentored scheme but I felt I was there just to grease there pocket with the £200 exam fee.

Being from Manchester I have 3 flying school around me these are Barton aerodrome, John Lennon airport and Blackpool airport, I was wounding if any one could shed any light on which is the better school for teaching and price etc!

I no everyones holy Grail on this forum is becoming a commercial airline pilot and it is mine to! But I'll be just as happy flying cargo/ freight or private jets etc I just wanna fly. Lol. Is there a different route for these or do you have to complete the same licences!

I'm also willing to become a atco rarer through the Nats scheme or trough the RAF, as I just wanna be part of the aviation Industry but my main goal is to become a pilot!

I do apologise if there is a lot of waffle in this thread and I Hope it makes sense these I phones have a habit of changing my words lol.

Any advice will be gratefully accepted as you can see I'm a little confused :confused:

Many thanks

Many thanks

[overun]

Sorry that l can`t help with advice, but may l ask what the £200 exam fee was about ?
l think l can guess.

l wish you well and good luck !

[jonny2005]

What a warming inspirational post for all of us old fogies.

[leadinghedges]

I flew recently with a new f/o (technically s/o) in my company. He has been putting himself through training bit by bit for the last 6 years. He told me he's 38 and this was his first job. His ppl, cpl, and ir were done in different countries with large time gaps in-between and his groundschool was modular!. Now as his first job he's sitting in an a320 with an internationally respected airline based in his home town!.

By contrast I joined the same airline at 18 as a fully sponsored cadet and got my a320 command at 27. What a different path we took.

I have nothing but admiration and respect for him and anybody else who remains dedicated to achieving their goal. Aviation is a wildly fluctuating industry, especially in terms of prospective employment. Timing can be crucial but if you hang in long enough clearly there can still be hope.

Best of luck to all.

p.s. i'm now 31, is that oficially 'old' yet?! :{

[corsair]

I'm 51, am I too old?

Yes I bloody am, too old to put up with the crap involved with being an airline pilot in this day and age. Having said that, I'm too old to put up with the crap with being any sort of pilot at the moment. The complicated reality is that I cannot avoid being a pilot as it's the only thing I'm qualified for.

I know it's sacreligious for you dreamers out there but I've reached a point where not flying is a good day.

My biggest dream is a steady income, organised hours and a decent pension. If I had that flying could be fun again.

[overun]

How dare you steal my thunder ?

Ok, your lrish. At a wild guess you have never carried a fare paying pax.

Or am l wrong ?

B*ll**** ?

Give us the facts and we`ll check.

[corsair]

How dare you steal my thunder ?Sorry won't do it again, (whatever).

Ok, your lrish. At a wild guess you have never carried a fare paying pax.Not sure why being Irish and not carrying fare paying pax should be interrelated. As for the pax, well they pay to be there and I'm getting paid to carry them. Does that count?

B*ll**** ?No it's just how I feel about it. It's just a job now.

[DiamondC]

A few years ago, I seem to remember integrated providers like CTC, Oxford, and FTE had maximum age limits but when I checked recently this was no longer the case. I emailed them to confirm and received responses about aptitude, speed of learning, etc but no definite limits. But I'm sure that unofficially age is still a factor and want some more information before I consider applying.

For anyone who did integrated training, what proportion of the class was over 30? Over 35? Or is there anyone involved in selection at these providers who could give me some straightforward advice on when age is likely to mean an application doesn't make the first cut? PM is fine of course.

(The integrated vs modular discussion has its own thread so would be great if we can keep posts on those subjects there :) )

[Groundloop]

on when age is likely to mean an application doesn't make the first cut?

Modern age discrimination legislation should mean that age should never be the criterion for being "cut" - hence no upper age limit now. Therefore Oxford, CTC etc could take you on (if you have the money) but job prospects at the end may be worse for the "older" graduate.

[FANS]

The age debate is changing, as traditionally mid-20s was often the cut-off. The job has changed and it is more of a management role than traditionally was the case, but needless to say the ability to fly well is still critical!

Different airlines have different views; RYR prefer youngsters as they're easier to bully, but the real point is that there's been next to no proper recruitment over the last few years, i.e. flybe haven't taken on any non-tagged cadets etc. so it's difficult to say.

A key consideration is whether you can afford to live on e.g. Flybe FO salary, as this is what stuffs up many esp if they've got a loan to service/mortgage /kids etc.

Also remember that on this forum you may hear of a 35 yr old who went straight into a 320 job, but others that have never worked - age is just one factor, but it's increasingly about the individual. Also remember that the industry has fundamentally changed so what was the case 10 years ago, may not be now but nowhere knows yet as proper pair recruitment is still very sparse.


Lastly. the training providers will tell you all sorts depending on how busy they are!

[DiamondC]

I'm aware the official legal position is that selection isn't based on age, but lots of factors are "unofficially" part of the decision. In my industry (non-aviation) that's definitely the case. Are there any older candidates (say 30+) who went integrated who wouldn't mind helping with some information about their experiences with the selection process? (PM is fine too.)

As for getting a job, that's a while away yet (and I can live on the low salary, I'm obligation-free in my personal life so no issues there).

[k30n1]

I'm 30, I'll be 31 in 5 months.
I have wanted to be a pilot for while but haven't gone for it because I can't pull the trigger. :ugh:

I have done my medical, I am fit to fly. I am going to train in the US and fly in the US. I'd be starting out at 31 and am giving myself about 1-2 years to get my PPL - CFI. I will have to take out loans to pay for about 30-40% of this.

Questions if you all don't mind....

1) Is the current predicted hiring boom really going to happen?

2) Am I most likely going to be turned down for a job because of
a) Military flyers jumping on to get a shot at flying for a major
b) All the Furloughed pilots are going to come back in an get jobs?

3) Do I have a chance of working for a major airline like United, American or Delta one day or am I too old for it now, just like the Airforce? Am I too old to fly abroad (Asia?, Middle East?)

4) Will I really make around 80,XXX as a captain at a regional? Will I ever make a good salary with a major airline, IF I ever get there?

I'm no spring chicken and older than most, but much younger than many.

I am totally open to any feedback. I prefer blunt and honest, optimism is one thing, but I would rather hear how bad it could really get.


Thanks.

[redsnail]

I am not overly familiar with the US scene but from friends who are I have managed to glean this info.

Majors. Generally they want a degree. No degree = probably no chance.
Regionals. Your age shouldn't be a problem, commuting etc might be a hassle + I believe legislation is being passed/tabled about a minimum of 1500 hours etc.

Furloughed pilots? Well, rarely do all of them come back. A few find other things to do that are (to them) less hassle.

Military pilots? Well, there's not as many of them as there used to be. They are competition but probably not where you'll be looking initially.

Aviation is highly sensitive to economy and rarely do the managers get the hiring spot on. It's best to catch the hiring wave "early".

I know Europe is different, but I think in the US and other regions it'll be "experience commensurate with age". So, at the moment, you're not too young but I would spend some time researching the hiring practices of the charter/regional/bizjet market you want to be in.

Good luck

[zondaracer]

Aloha,

You´re not too young, especially in the US. If you can get hired in the next 4 years, you will still have a 30 year flying career. If you know the right people, and the timing and hiring are just right, you could end up at a major airline.

With that being said...

1. Will there be a hiring boom? We don´t really know, it depends on lots of factors. If everything goes as predicted, then possibly. If we enter a second recession, hit by a giant terrorist attack again, volcanic ash cloud, etc... it could affect world-wide travel, thus affecting the airline hiring. It´s all a domino effect and nobody can really know exactly what will happen.

What I can tell you is that the regions in the US are hiring right now. If you want to catch this ship, you need to hurry because the hiring situation can just as easily reverse in a very short time. American Eagle is hiring with 500TT minimums if you go through All ATPs Regional Standards course, and American Eagle has a flowthrough deal with American Airlines (some changes are happening at AMR right now though)

2. Despite furloughed pilots and military pilots, currently, there are not enough pilots to fill the hiring classes at the regionals. Yes, US military pilots are planning on jumping to the commercial side soon, especially if the deployments and the extra queep doesn´t reduce, but I think this is a bigger concern for the military.

3. No, you are not too old to get started and potentially get hired at a major, but see first paragraph.

4. There exists a potential to make six figures as a captain at a regional. But starting pay will be somewhere between $17,000 to $22,000. If you go to a major, pay is better with a higher earning potential, if you get there. Southwest Airlines and Fedex seem to be at the higher end of the pay scale.
Airline Pilot Salary and Pay Rates (http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/)
You can see what the payscales look like at different US Carriers. And when doing the calculations, pilots work around 65-80hrs per month (only get paid while plane is moving, not when you are parked and doing other things)

To be honest, you are not too old for the US. I know guys who didn´t start until their early 40s but their whole career ended up being at a regional. I also worked with a guy who had a full time job, and was slowly building up his hours. By the time he was 35 he had built up enough hours to get hired but didn´t want to go to a regional take a paycut from his current job that he had been doing for the previous 13 years.

I would say that in your position, and with the current regional hiring going on right now, you don´t have time to waste if it is something you really want to do.

Just my 2 cents.

[usualguy]

What I can tell you is that the regions in the US are hiring right nowthey have one year to take everybody they can before the 1500h rule.
if the guys have 500h, and logg 1000h in one year at a regional, they are good for 2013.

mid 2012 they will ask for 1000-1200h.
and end 2012 1500h or go get yourself a fi job.

then what will happen?nobody knows.

Will salary at regional increase?will they close?
pilot shortage maybe? who is in the right mind ready to spend 80000$ for a cpl/ir/cfii then 4 years in a school to finish on a saab in a regional , and paid peanuts?

1) Is the current predicted hiring boom really going to happen?
boom if you have +1500 and mutiengibe aswell.


2) Am I most likely going to be turned down for a job because of
a) Military flyers jumping on to get a shot at flying for a major
b) All the Furloughed pilots are going to come back in an get jobs?

yes they will, but some have found ther jobs which pay more.

3) Do I have a chance of working for a major airline like United, American or Delta one day or am I too old for it now, just like the Airforce? Am I too old to fly abroad (Asia?, Middle East?)

if you can go in a regional, and fly embraerjet, you can get your chance

4) Will I really make around 80,XXX as a captain at a regional? Will I ever make a good salary with a major airline, IF I ever get there?

nobody make good money in aviation.you can just barely survive. it s a hobby ,remember!some guys fly for free.

[zondaracer]

Wow Usualguy, you sound more bitter every day.

who is in the right mind ready to spend 80000$ for a cpl/ir/cfii then 4 years in a school to finish on a saab in a regional , and paid peanuts?

Lots of guys apply to Embry Riddle (and other schools) every year and pay even more to get a 4 year degree and end up at a regional, or even instructing even after graduating.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with instructing until you reach FAA ATP minimums. Lots of guys have done it in the past, are doing it now, and will continue to do it in the future. Heck, none of the airlines were doing much hiring since 2007 until just recently. I know lots of guys who slaved it out for 4 years as an instructor, or even bartender.

[ayrtonsenna]

Hello all wanabee Irish pilots out there!
I'm thinking of a career change and becoming a pilot. Just a quick message to see if anyone thinks 31 is too old to do this. I'd be about 33/34yrs old before i'd be qualified to fly.
Would i find it hard to get a job with airllines due to the ageism as mentioned many times in threads on these forums?
Due to the cost of training id be :mad: at my age if i couldn't get a job.
Anyone else from Ireland in my boat?

[BigGrecian]

if thinks 31 is too old to do this

Your young. The average CPL student is around this age nowadays - certainly was where I trained.

You are however, never too old to read the instructions and rules on this forum regarding reading archived threads before posting which covers this area : http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

[flylogan]

Hi Ayrtonsenna,

Im 28 and having the same thoughts as you regarding a career change.
I will PM you.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Look, face the facts, at 28 and 31, you are old and senile, no good whatsoever for anything. Stick to what you're doing now, take early retirement at 50 and expect to be dead by 55.

All this stuff you didn't read on numerous PPrune threads because you were too lazy to do a bit of homework, about it being fine training over 40, likely extensions to mandatory retirement age, and passengers preferring to see somebody out of short trousers on the flight deck - it's all cobblers, and clearly doesn't apply to you.

G

[MCDU2]

These threads come up on a regular basis and you will find that the yes go for it camp are generally people that work in a certain low cost airline where career progression can be quite quick eg: 3-4 years RHS to LHS. I would add caution to this as I am hearing that command is much longer now in outfits such as FR where there is little or no expansion with MOL parking aircraft around Europe and canceling orders.

If your plans are to join a national carrier such as AL (I see you are from Ireland) then consider the following:-

- currently people are taking on average 12 years to get to the LHS on the A320
- progression off the A320 (the starting fleet) onto the A330 was around 6 years but realistically this has slid out even further and with no expansion planned then conceivably you could see short haul command quicker. Recent rostering changes resulting in 2 day turn arounds on the A330 means they need even less pilots than previously.
- if you were fully qualified by say 35 years old then you would have your ATPL and around 3000 hours by the time your 40. Then a wait till your 47 for your command. Factor in kids and a family life and how your roster will be messing up all of that.
- if you did get into an airline straight off such as AL then you will be effectively locked in due to any seniority that you have built up. Further, other airlines may not be interested in a 40 year old FO joining them when their captains could well be 10 years your junior.

Essentially flying is for the young single folk now eg: 20 year olds. They can afford to get into an airline, gain some hours and not care about any lost seniority and jump ship to the bottom of someone elses list then sit there for the next 12-15 years and hey presto they are mid 30's and sitting in the LHS of some large metal. They will then progress to top of scale on any salary list and avail of all of the associated perks. If the company has a pension scheme then they will be fully funded and not have to worry about making any voluntary contributions. If the markets dip and erode their pension they have time on their side.

Good luck.

[turbine100]

I did my PPL in my early 20's and eventually got around to getting my commercial license's finished early 2008 as the down turn hit.

My age is 31 and have found some jobs, not all have rejected me and I think unoffically its been my age. A certain Irish low cost airline is one example that I am sure was age related.

Large schools that do integrated or have the relationship's get in the way if you are modular like myself and others trying to get a job.

If you were able to, I would suggest cadet / integrated scheme. It will be 3 years soon for myself looking and its somewhat frastrating when those airlines who only take from specific integrated / cadet school scheme's, that you cannot apply for the same job and may already have some AOC experience in the GA world.

So it's really all about timing and do your research with whats best for your personal situation and family.

[telfalconpilot]

Hi Ayrtonsenna, you are probably one on the many who one day, felt they ought to start flying !
So was I... ...long ago !
I started Club-Flying when I was 22, which "seemed old already", yet , I could have started at 21 if not delaying the thing by a month or two, each time.
I actually got my CPL and IR when I was 26 and a little bit older...
...and got my first salary as a Pilot (not just as employed to fly for free, to build up experience) as I reached 33.
There has been a long way since then, I'm now 57, not even thinking of retiring, and still meeting the age problems: Am I too old to go for a new Type Rating ?
An inside voice just tells me GO AHEAD !
Because I like this job, and if you ever felt like becoming a Pilot, you just have to go for it, but be aware you will have to make some hard choices and sacrifices, but whatever one can let you imagine, it is worth it !
So, if you've heard this inside voice, do go ahead NOW !
Because in any case, tomorrow, you won't be younger, there is nothing you can do about that, but you might well feel much happier if you do !
Good Luck in your carreer, because everyone needs some as well !
TEL

[saireddy20]

Hi friends.

thank you for giving me this opportunity, where i can hope i will get right answer about my dream career.

i have few doubts and confusion about to become pilot.

1) I am 27 yrs old. my dream is to become a pilot. am i too old?? if i start my cpl training now,by 29 if i clear my CPL will i still have a chance to get an job?

2)regarding about training. In India some places are offering for 20000dollars and most of the agencies are marketing training in Philippians. could you please suggest me which is the best place to do in india or Philippians?

3) After completion of CPL, do i have to compulsory to do type rating (320/787) to get an job? is there any posiblities to get an job without type rating, i mean i don't mind to write a bond to the airlines in the world if they can send me for type rating.

4) am bit of scared to go for trainning,because this days young guys or doing the course, i am afraid i wil be odd person between the young guys..

5) if i do trainning from any other private school. how much does it cost for A320 or B737 type rating??


6) If i do fi course and work for 1 year add up around 1000 hrs.wil it be any advantage??

i would be really great if anyone can help me on this...

[taff_lightning]

Hi there

There are already lots of threads on this topic on the forum. I suggest you have a go with the search function.

Should find all the info you need.

[Dan the weegie]

The answer to all your questions is, maybe.

You're not too old for everyone, you might get a bond without paying for your rating but it's not looking likely right now. It might be better in India than the phillipines, then again it might not. You wont be feel odd with lots of young people around then again if you're not confident you will. Having 1000 hours will make you more employable but it might not be worth the money you paid to get there and then you have to find an FI job.

It's a gamble, nothing is guaranteed but nothing is excluded all I do know is that it's very expensive and expect it to be more expensive by 30% than you actually think.

[potential pilot]

I'm 54 and coming out of the rat race. I've always wanted to be a commercial pilot but, is this a realistic aspiration considering my age? Is it worth spending my redundancy money on or, should I take up rose pruning? If I was successful, will the jobs be there or will I be a well qualified "has been"?

I don't have much flying experience but understand how planes work, am a qualified naval skipper (hobby) and have air navigation O level! (My maths master was a Mosquito navigator). I'm technical and practical so am not phased by the ability to fly but know it's a very steep learning curve too.....

All input very gratefully received!

Thank you

[rmcb]

If I was in your shoes I would get a PPL, an IMC/IR and enjoy flying for flying's sake.

There are a load of low hour CPL with IR holders flying supermarket shelves for the foreseeable future. Please don't join them!

[redsnail]

I hate telling people "no, not a good idea" but in this case it's not a good idea to spend your redundancy money on CPL flight training.

The CPL/IR with the ATPL theory is not easy, it's not impossible either but that's nothing compared to getting a decent well paying job. At best you'll have 5-8 years of productive flying before you'll be restricted to the RHS (at best) or instructing. In short, you won't recoup the money spent.

Best advice, go and have a trial lesson. See what you think of it. Get a PPL and enjoy flying when you want to. Not when the schedule demands. :D

Good luck. :)

[kaptn]

I would have to say that it's how long can you stand with a challenge?
If you like it, and ready to spend your money (hoping you're covered for the rest ...house...wife...children...).....then get into it, or dye dreaming.....It's true your chances of a job may be very little comparing to a young pilot with more hours, but you never know what life is hiding to you....If it's your destiny, then you'll certainly do it.......

Once a singer said "Keep the faith":cool:

[welliewanger]

Financially it's a ridiculous thing to do. Your chances of a job (other than instucting) once you qualifiy will be minimal.

On the other hand. If you can afford to take the risk and it's in your blood, then I suppose it's something that you'll have to do or spend the rest of your life regretting it.

I agree with previous posters here, though. Keep the day job (it pays the bills) and do the training for fun.

[fwjc]

As the other posters say, start with your PPL. If you get on really well, and love it, you might want to consider instructing. I know several people who've turned to instructing in their (semi) retirement. It's a cheaper goal to aim for than CPL/ME/IR, and the resultant pay is considerably less too, but you have a marginally better chance of getting a job as someone of a mature outlook...

Good luck and enjoy your flying no matter what!

[potential pilot]

All input much appreciated folks. So, PPL it is and buy my own A320!

[KAG]

All input much appreciated folks. So, PPL it is and buy my own A320!

Keep your job and buy a cheap fighter (or military trainer)!

At 55 you will become a jet fighter pilot without having to kill anybody, best of the best if you ask me.

Buy a Mig 21 instead of an Airbus, first it's more realistic (the price of your CPL/IR/TR), second it's much cooler.

Flying with your Mig 21 will look so much better than joining the p2f army!

And when you won't be able to pay for maintenance anymore, you 'd still be able to sell it the same price!


http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/mig21/mig21_02.jpg

[potential pilot]

Brilliant concept! Had my eye on a Lightning but as an RAF mate once told me, "if we struggled to keep them in the air, you won't stand a chance!"

[KAG]

Don't be so impressed.

Some armies sent their pilot to war and to some extremely difficult missions with less than 200 hours total.


You can get maximum fun with a Bellanca Citabria too...

[FamousGrouse21]

Hi all. I need a few opinions on training, so thought I'd drop a post on here. Basically i've been floating around in aviation on a private basis for a few years now, and have managed to achieve ppl, night, imc and 160 hours. From the outset I always intended to try and make a career out of it, but have been somewhat stalled by the gloomy economic outlook over the past few years.

As of recently I have 0 commitments again (The dating scene just doesn't seem like its for me at the moment lol) so I have once again started considering my options regarding training. So... a few points...

1) If I got started fairly soon, given my age is a bit adavanced on that of some starters (I'm just 27) is there a chance of making a decent career out of it? I'm not looking to get rich and retire at 50 (In fact I don't really plan on retiring at all, but simply getting stuff paid off and continuing to do various intereting jobs on the side). However, I would obviously like to get some sort of return on my investment to enable me to live a bit of a life. I was looking at going down the CPL FI TR route and perhaps trying to get into biz jet flying within say 3 - 5 years (Making me early 30s), giving me hopefully another 30 years to make some money out of it.... does this sound feasible?

2) I potentially have an instructor job at my club lined up for when I qualify, as the CFI there is very impressed with my flying. It wouldn't be much but it would be a start, which given what I read around the forums is not to be sniffed at in the current climate.

3) Finally... I have a background in teaching and classroom instruction... Do you think this could be used to compliment my aviation career (And earnings) in the early stages... perhaps through doing lots of groundschool instructing (If there is much of this type of work available?)

Any opinions on my plans / situation are much appreciated.

Grouse

[Si76]

I visited the Flyer Exhibition at Heathrow today and was told by a representative of one of the big FTOs in no uncertain terms (albeit politely) that at 35 and beyond I would have practically zero chance of getting an airline job on completion of my training.

Is this pretty much true or was it being exaggerated a little? It would be good to know as I don't want to invest a huge amount of money into the training when there's nothing to be gained from it in terms of airline employment at the end.

Cheers.

[BigNumber]

Utter Utter Cobblers; you are hardly in a Care Home are you! The only folks who spout this twaddle are those that think the aviation world can only be skinned one way by MOL or CTC.

1. Get a CPL/IR Frozen ATPL.

2. Pay for a 500 hour package on an A320.

Voila.... aged late 30's you will be in the self same position as most other folks.

Rated, and with hours on type (enough hours), and fully current unlike those that havent flown for years due to the downturn.

Check out the job adds.. you will be rather well placed in fact compared with many.

BN

[fwjc]

At 36 I was told pretty much the same thing (from a number of different sources). Didn't stop one of the big three offering me a place on an integrated course though!

Fortunately I don't intend on aiming for the airline sector. And I'm following a modular route outside of the big schools. We'll see where it takes me. Whatever happens, it won't be wasted time and money, for me at least.

[fwjc]

Unless you can explain the reasons, it will raise questions in some minds as to why you weren't trying to get in 15 years ago of course!

Simples... lack of money.

[Si76]

I questioned the individual about BA's FPP and his answer was that the airlines can't be seen to be discriminating about age etc.

There seems to be a lot of mixed messages on this thread and that of course is down to everyone having different experiences. I might add that this person didn't say that I wouldn't be able to start training with them, just that there wouldn't be much chance of airline employment afterwards.

Food for thought.

[Gav28]

It's a punt at the best of times, in your mid thirties even more so. If you treat it as such and can afford to do it without risking your livelihood, then go for it. You'll find numerous examples on here of people who made it into airlines at that age and older, albeit few recent ones.

but for goodness sake, get yourself independently aptitude tested e.g. GAPAN.

That's the best bit of advice, aside from getting the medical.

[fwjc]

Definitely do an aptitude test. But also note that if you are already a PPL with a number of hours, parts of the aptitude test are less accurate.

I would have thought you'd have an unfair advantage. Actually the opposite is true, at least it was in my case. Fortunately a sim flight showed a more reasonable assessment of ability.

So, do one, but don't be gutted if you don't ace it all.

PS truck flyer, congrats! An enviable yet unenviable position for you! Good luck whichever way you go.

[Artie Fufkin]

but for goodness sake, get yourself independently aptitude tested e.g. GAPAN.


They told me a few years back that I had "a low chance of success in pilot training". I passed all my ATPLs first time, first time pass at CPL, first series pass IR, employed within 3 months of finishing course, gained command in minimum hours.

I guess I'm one of those "very, very few" for whom the tests are inaccurate.

[Finals19]

Guys,

I got my first "proper" airline job at 39 - granted I took the interview when I was just coming up 37 and then was made to "swim" in a hold pool for years - but in the end it worked out. I was not a complete newbie, as I had done a few years of Air Taxi (PA31 Navajo) on and off and was an ICAO licence converter.

It can be done, and older guys (>30) can still get flying jobs. I now work for a well established regional TP operator.

Like Artie, I think I would have pretty much fluffed the GAPAN type tests. Nevertheless I also managed to get first time passes in all the required stuff and this was the key element for gaining an interview. Operators really can pick and choose right now, so if you are a slightly more "mature" applicant, make sure you get top marks and study / fly hard.

Good luck to all :ok:

[Artie Fufkin]

Artie - I would respectfully point out as well that it is but an indication: if for whatever reason you sat more than one standard distribution below the mean for all the characteristics tested, while past data suggested all those successful had been above that point to within one standard error, you would be the valid exception to the rule, even if all concepts and parts of the CPL/IR came to you as naturally for you than for any of your coursemates.

I confess I really don't understand the above, but put quite simply, I was told politely but firmly that I had no chance whatsoever and should believe what I was told.

I know GAPAN have the most honourable and decent intentions with their tests, but how many fledgling careers have been unnecessarily cut short at Cranwell? The real scandal is we don't know and nor do they!

put a little faith in a huge body of scientific statistical data.

Well that's my gripe. Do they ask for feedback on how the GAPAN test candidates eventually fared in pilot training? I've certainly never been asked. How can they be so certain that their tests accurately reflect the demands of modern civilian pilot training?

[fwjc]

Three people I know scored low on the hand-eye coordination part of the test. This despite reasonable accomplishment in Pitts and Cessna aerobatics (requiring somewhat different skills, but both good hand-eye coordination), and vintage dissimilar-type formation (also requiring some stick finesse).

I tend to agree with Artie, although it must also be said that there are so many people applying that they can afford to turn away good people because the remainder are likely to be good. The danger comes when the not so good get through, either because they're good at those tests, or the standards are dropped. Then the filtering criteria becomes financial, and that isn't so good. In my opinion, that is.

fwjc

[ssridhar]

Hi,
I am very curious to hear from members on what age is wrong to start/take up the career or being a Pilot. Is there any "un-said" truth in hireability if you are not a young pilot aspirant?

Planning a major shift in career path @ 40yrs, want to take up the career of Pilot which has been a childhood dream.

- Which flying institute is most preferred in US?
- What are the chances of getting hired immediately after securing the CPL?

Any advice is highly valuable, thank you all in advance.

[Genghis the Engineer]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418583-perpetual-am-i-too-old-thread-2010-11-a.html

G

[Eire_wannabe]

Hi Everyone,

No sarcasm, wise-guys PLEASE :=

36yrs old, PPL and 80+hrs.....

AM I MAD TO BE CONTEMPLATING A CPL/ME/IR??? :eek:

total career change....call it my "mid-life crisis"!!!!

would i be 'marketable/employable'???

Cheers..............

[YVRKid]

I'm a young gun, I'm only 23, but I'll offer up my advice, for what it's worth (which to you is probably not a lot, to me it's the world :ok:)

Are you loaded, filthy, wipe your ass with $100 bills rich? Then no you're not insane, have fun...I am jealous.


Are you married? Then maybe you're a little more crazy, depending on the kind of woman you're married to.

Are you married with kids? Then yes, you are insane...in my opinion.

Are you single with the finances to go through with it? Then you'd be insane not to do it! Who cares how old you are. Chances are you won't make it to the left seat of a BA 747 in your career, but you do still have 24 years left before the mandatory retirement age, so have at 'er. You're only as marketable as you make yourself out to be.

Here's how I look at it. There are a lot of naysayers in the aviation world. A lot. In fact for the last, oh I'd say 5-6 years, I had completely given up any hope I ever had of being a professional airline pilot, thanks to said naysayers. Threw out Flight Simulator, gave away my Justplanes DVDs, started drinking my money instead of saving it, etc. etc. Then I joined the military. And you know what I realized...people are always going to whine and bitch, regardless of how good they have it. I have the jammiest job, and for the amount of work I actually do vs. how much I get paid, I'm richer than Bill Gates himself. But all I hear from coworkers is complaints. Whine, whine, whine. I get wicked money, a sweet pension, get to travel the world, do some super cool things (ever had a helicopter dunk you numerous times into the ocean? Didn't think so, I did) and the list goes on. And while I'm not a complainer it made me realize - do what you love. Seriously. The only thing that's going to make you happy is doing what you love. Sure a good salary, and security and what not are important, but so many people I hear whining make it the be all and end all.
I've only come to this conclusion very recently so now instead of signing a longer military contract, I'm getting out in a few short years and pursuing my dream. I don't care how long it takes and how poor I am. I'd rather be happy than comfortable. Maybe I'm seeing life through rose coloured glasses...but I've seen infanteers in Afghanistan in the most brutal conditions who are happier than a pig in :mad: because all they ever wanted was to be a soldier. Goes to show, in my book.

Rant over.

[fwjc]

Hi Eire_wannabe

I'm 37 now. Started on this route when I was not far off 36. Still working on it although not married, I'm not loaded either. Have writtens + CPL done, Savin up for the rest. I don't regret a thing. If I can get a job, great. I've years of professional work experience to bring with me. If I don't get a job, those years of professional experience will keep a roof over my head.

Good luck!

[BlackandBrown]

You're asking people to predict something infinitely random - life. Make your decision, live with the consequences, take responsibility for yourself and have no regrets. Any other advice is useless noise.

[redsnail]

Eire wannabe,

As others have alluded to "it depends".
Have you done a medical? (eyes, ears, diabetes)
Do you have the money to throw away?
Do you have a family that is depending on you for a certain lifestyle and expectations, such as uni?
After you've finished the flight training, can you survive on an effective income of £20,000 for 5 years?
What's the economy doing? Aviation is very sensitive to it, and does follow the "boom/bust" cycles reasonably closely.
Have you researched the market for employability of 40+ YO new CPL holders?
(That should concern you)

If your goal is to become a flight instructor and possibly some charters (piston or turboprop) on the side, or a turboprop job suits (note, not big money), then by all means crack on. If you just want to do it for the intellectual challenge, go for it. However, if your goal is to be a captain of a B744, then perhaps you should rethink.

You may think "oh it's not the money" - believe me, it is. If you're going to invest a small or large fortune in yourself, you want the returns.
When it's your signature on the Flight Log, you want suitable compensation. :ok:

[The Dominican]

There is another aspect to all of this, I agree that if your goal is the airlines, the road is long and the sacrifices of low pay to gain the experience are high, but there are other aviation fields where you might get somewhat of a decent pay in a few years at it, helicopter pilot for example, I know of folks that are now working air ambulance in bell jet rangers that weren't even pilots 6, 7 years ago, flying for a sheriff's department, flying for a government agency inspecting electrical network, I know a good friend doing that now that started 5 years ago instructing in piston helos, flying turboprops for custom patrols, those guys don't make tons of money but they have some good benefits, whatever the case you will have a few years of growing pains, the person you need to discuss this is with your better half, without her 100% on board with making cuts the first few years, it's not going to work. Good luck

[Slopey]

I'm 37yrs old, PPL and 120+hrs.....

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


However, as the other have said, it depends on your situation. If I win the lottery or come into enough cash to leave me financially secure tomorrow, I'll go straight out and do it, just for the achievement.

But unless you're currently earning less than comparable amounts to an FO (in which case you're unlikely to be able to do it anyway), why spend many tens of thousands (if not 100k) of pounds for a job which will net you about 20k? IF, you can actually get a job.

You may be back in the same career, with a 100k debt, and nothing to show for it except a couple of hundred hours and an ME/IR which is quickly lapsing.

Really does depend on your dependants, social, financial, career situation etc.

But at this age, in this economy, and this market, you'd be mad. (imho).

[pudoc]

Personally I would go for it. Many will disagree but my motto is that you only have one life so make the most of it.

You've got to have the personality though. Getting through training is one thing, but getting a job is very different. And the social individual has a better social network, ie more contacts and more chance of job.

Of course you don't need that personality, but it helps when trying to find a job.

I feel that's often something that people overlook....make contacts with everyone. I keep in touch with a lot of people I meet in flying schools, at airlines while volunteering etc. I'm building a good network.

Being positive is so crucial to get through the training and get a job. It's very easy to get bogged down with it.

[Finals19]

Its a double edged sword....don't do it and you will live your life kicking yourself and wondering what might have happened etc...

Do it, and (depending on your current level of income, life-comfort, family commitments) you may look at others and think that ultimately you might have been better off in a ground based job which does not necessitate such a large gamble and an even larger financial outlay.

I am a touch over 40, started just flying just after my 30th and now work for a UK regional TP operator. I've had a great time on my personal journey so far - done all sorts - air taxi, skydive work, and now TP. I haven't forked out large amounts on jet TR's (no disrespect to those that have mind,) and still enjoying it (most of the time!!!). Pay is not astounding tho, and yes I could have done better by sticking at the office job I had.

The somewhat clichéd saying "the grass is always greener" applies here. My inclination (especially if you're single) is to do it - BUT huge perseverance and self conviction are needed, and don't expect to be rich for a long time (especially if you end up flying TP's - which is incidentally a great experience!!).

Good luck!!

[student88]

Good thread and great post YVRKid.

E.W. - It's not impossible at your age and it certainly has been done before. I know FOs who got their first job flying an Airbus in their mid 40s after a few years of flight instruction behind them.

I'm sure you're aware that you probably wont walk into an airline job as easily as someone younger than you, but I say again, its not impossible.

Be realistic, set yourself achievable goals in the sense of time frames and don't let the ATPLs get you down! If it all goes tits up at least you can rest assured that you tried (assuming you can afford to waste the money if that is the case).

[Eire_wannabe]

EVERYONE,

Firstly, wow, am overwhelmed by everyones honesty & advise!

THANK YOU!!!! :D

Honestly, didnt/havent come to pprune to sway my decision but its truly brilliant to get so many opinions! Not gonna single any one out for individual praise but, young and old, experienced and 'green', its great to hear other views!

VERDICT: WISH I KNEW SOMEONE 'CONNECTED'!!!! (and would prob' 100% go ahead with it!) :ugh:

'til then, feel free to throw me out 6 numbers for the lottery :cool:

[apt_idea]

I've only added to one post. I logged in just to say thankyou my friend. I'm 37 and posts like yours are inspiring.

[Eire_wannabe]

apt idea i agree with you....that city flyer aint nothing but a :mad: :D

must be bitter to have 'that as your input' to a thread!!??!!

[shaun ryder]

WISH I KNEW SOMEONE 'CONNECTED'!!!! (and would prob' 100% go ahead with it!)

Rarely works these days, right place, right time and damn big chunk of lady luck and you still might not get a commercial position, the lottery is probably a safer bet than hob knobbing down at the local flying club. You might get one interview if you are very lucky. You will be up against a myriad of competition.

Heres some food for thought - Its a nightmare for unemployed jet pilots with thousands of hours to get back in to work (these guys have the plum ratings, 73/320 etc Captains and FOs), its a nightmare for type rated wannabes to get work, its a nightmare for integrated school graduates to get work, its a nightmare for experienced GA pilots instructors/ air taxi pilots to get work, never mind the modular guys. There are simply thousands of people armed with the bare necessities to apply for the minute amount of positions available. I know people who have multiple type ratings who are working the night shift at your local hotel, they can't get a flying job! There are people that qualified years ago still scratching a living as instructors, guess what?

If you have money to piss up the wall then go for it, if you value your life style then avoid. You will be extremely fortunate if you manage to carve out a successful career in the airlines as a late career changer. Have you the aptitude
etc..Lots of things have to be addressed, so many make the mistake and dive in. Don't be fooled, its a gargantuan undertaking to get from where you are now to the right seat of a public transport aircraft.

Fly for fun.

[Eire_wannabe]

@ s ryder

insightful & brutally honest......i like it :ouch:

Opinions, real-life stories from people in circumstances similar from today and an era gone by can do no harm :ok:

Thanks (not sarcastic!!)

[may know more than i claim to be perceiving :eek:]

[sheronfrd]

Hello guys ..

I am 30 years old and I am holding PPL and Aircraft engineering degree. Currently working in an airline in engineering field. But now i am thinking to get my CPL done and work as a pilot. I just want to know whether I am too late to start flying training ? Is there any way to build up A320 hours for money ? I can finish all the license before 33 years of my age. Will it be too late ? :uhoh:

Thanks in advance

[TheSkyIsTheLimit]

It's not too late to start, but from what I've heard airliners prefer young pilots (I can be wrong on this!). And yes you can build hours on the A320, just rent a simulator, but this is VERY expensive!

[wingbar]

Short answer. No your not too old, life experience is very important.
But what is increasing is the ability of young teens and early twenties to spend money on TR's and hours.

I've seen people come into this and make it to TRE at age 40. It's entirely up to you.

Regards

WB

[A Pandy]

30 is not too late to start but just be aware that it can take a long time to get that first real flying job. I started flight training at age 29 purely for a PPL. 18 months later I decided to quit my career and try aviation full time. It took a lot of time and heart ache and a number of years living on little or no income but eventually after about 7 years I got a break and was hired by a multi-national corporation as a co-pilot.
14 years later I am a captain flying Learjet 45 series and next month I am going to school on the Gulfstream G650. So it can be done but there are no guarantees and it may be a long road.
Good Luck.

[sheronfrd]

thanks guys... really appreciated..

[JuggerD]

Age is definitely a factor, but for a true aviation enthusiast there are no limits. I've seen guys drowning in debt, spending a huge load getting certified, then failing at securing employment, investing some more in p2fly, getting a TR, and still not getting a job... but they kept on trying till they eventually got a paying gig.

I come from a family where most of my Uncles were experienced senior captains in the national flag carrier with multiple TRs. As a child I idolised them, and wanted to be just like them flying B747s. But even then (BACK IN THE 80's!) they'd (my Uncles) tell me that it wasn't a profession worth pursuing, all the jobs had dried up, and batches of qualified pilots fresh out of Flight Schools were unemployed. I always knew that my parents would dish out as much as I'd tell them to when it came to my education, and they never stopped me from pursuing any particular profession... EXCEPT flying (thanks to my Uncles)! Anyway, I graduated from a top tier school in London with multiple majors (Accounting, Finance and Economics), wasn't even allowed to study aviation. Then my first Masters was from another red brick UK Business School with the same majors (Accounting and Finance), did my MBA from London, got my professional Accounting certification from ACCA (UK), got my professional finance certification from IFC (USA), and started working on a high paying salary at a Blue Chip company as a Senior Associate.

Born in 1984, I'm still in my late 20's, single, no dependants as such, or any financial obligations. As much as I love my life, my field of expertise, my job, I just wanted to be a pilot. Flying for a living! But considering the amount of money my parents had spent on my education (yes, I still fear that look of disappointment in my parents' eyes!), I couldn't in good faith just resign form my job and leave on a wild goose chase (an airline pilot's job). So, none the less, I got enrolled with a flight school and got my PPL/IR ME 650TT. Got my parents to pay for it, which they happily did this time around with one condition though; No CPL! For now, I'm still working as a finance professional, I'm stonewalled! :ugh: But someday, I will manage a way to do what I have always wanted to do. A SUCCESSFUL CAREER CHANGE! Nobody believes in me, maybe they shouldn't, maybe I'm just living in a fool's paradise... so be it. I'll keep on trying anyway!

JD

[jcr737]

Hi,

I got my CPL last year (2011) and have started an Instructor Rating. My questions though is: I am now 54 years old, am I too old to really start out on a professional career? Flying schools and the like are always positive, but we all know they are just after our hard earned dollars. Any pilot out there that started this late in life? Should I continue on and get a MECIR? :hmm: :ugh:

[redsnail]

Hi,
What is your goal?
If you're looking at the airlines in Australia, then sadly, yes, you're probably too old.
Instructing, no, not too old but can you make a living out of it?

[smiling monkey]

There was an instructor in Melbourne who started to learn to fly the day after he retired as a school principal at age 55. He went on to have a long career until he could no longer renew his medical at 70 and unfortunately died of cancer at 71. That's 15 years that he was a career instructor. I also know of a few people who got in to regional airlines in their late 40's.

[Greenlights]

You want to fly as professional pilot but, instructor or airline ?

instructor, not too old...

airline, in theory, not too old, but in practice, yes for sure... :bored:

[Dogfactory]

I believe it's all down to who you know (and where you are absed). If the sky is gonna bless you with one of those once-in-a-lifetime meeting with "someone", then you can make it. It's the same hope I have, starting at 43 with no other options in life than aviation. So I cross fingers for both of us :}

[CaptKate]

Airlines usually have a cut-off age for hiring (about 55), but there are plenty of other jobs out there with no age limit - flight instructor, search and rescue, corporate and charter, forestry, law enforcement, immigration. The most important thing is passing the medical exam.

[Genghis the Engineer]

In other words, the more interesting flying jobs, if not necessarily the best paid.

Personally, given a free range of full time pilot jobs, airline would be pretty near the bottom. Test would be up the top, probably followed by SAR, instructor and fishery patrol.

G

[FANS]

The question is - do you want to be a FI? So many do (did?) it as a stepping stone and can't stand the job...

[KAG]

Nowadays age is something a bit more flexible than before...

Who has never met somebody who looks 30 while he is 45?

Some people at 45 are extremely smart, have a lot of energy, are very healthy, and honestly there is nothing much they couldn't do/learn.
When in addition life gave the same ones some money, and some social skills (how to network, how to pass an interview...), that's very hard to tell them their age is an obstacle, when this is already a psychologic obstacle, not necessarily a real one.

Some people at 45 are already old, unefficient, but those were probabely always like that... Sorry to be a bit harsh.

My very point is this one: it depends on the individual! Not really on the age.
Some are even better at 40 than at 20, yes it does exist. It means some people actually could start a pilot career at 40, when they would have never been able in their 20s...

Here are my rules for aviation and age:

-the younger the better, don't try to get some back up plan that would postpone your career by 5 years, useless! You still can get you back up plan later if something goes wrong with aviation (maybe even be financed for that!), otherwise why calling it a back up plan!?
-When older, there is no real age limit we can give, it all depends on the individual, some are more than able to start any kind of career in there 40s (especially if they are ready to move a bit around the world), some are not.
-Don't put your familly in financial danger.
-Don't build some psychologic obstacles, age itself shouldn't be a barrier.
-Motivation and skills are usually more important than age, and are not necessarily linked bellow 50 (well, after 77, that's an other story if you believe the neuropsychologists...).

Some numbers that can help you:
-the average age when a Nobel prize scientist did his most important work in his life is 48 years old.
-I personaly know somebody who got his first airline job at 45, on wide body.
-My oldest student (when I was flight instructor) was 55, and I sent him solo within a very normal time experience.

When it is true, in theory, that you are more able and smarter when younger, it is also true that some individuals are strong self improvers, and are actually more efficient when a bit older than when they were younger.

Now about the industry hiring age policy: there is no rules. Some would set an age limit, other companies wouldn't, some will set limits around 45, everything is possible, but you will always find a company able to hire you if you have the good profil, and obviously if the airline is hiring.
Most flight schools have no age limit to hire instructors.
Think about ultra lights aswell, where sometimes the salary is better than PPL instructors...

That being said, whatever you age, it remains a tricky industry.
Right now, if you are able to move around, it doesn't look that bad. Even though you can find thousands and thousands jobless pilots (wannabes and experienced), there is still some possible ways. Australia is hiring, Canada too, a bit less maybe, NZ is hiring, Asia is hiring, middle east, Africa aswell is hiring its share of bush pilots, whatever we can say about it. Some other places too.
Western Europe and US are hiring very little with a lot of pilots in furlough.

Like you see, it is more an industry problem than an age issue.

The way I see it, in addition, is that around 2015-2020 oil will be so expensive that low cost aviation will start to stop its activity, and the world economy will have to face a bigger economy crisis that the one we are experiencing now.
Further more, airplanes in the future won't need pilots to fly, whatever we can say about it, this time will come, sooner or later. Could be sooner than most people might think... Bush aviation however, will still need pilots, but it would make this career a dying one.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Very well said KAG, I agree with every word.

G

[bikerwo]

Hi all,

I've recently taken a couple of flying lessons and have caught the flying bug. I'd love to pursue a career as a pilot but have a few concerns. I am currently a soldier coming to the end of my colour service and so will have a pension to fall back on as well as a substantial lump sum to help towards costs of gaining a fATPL. I am concerned that after serving 22 years to earn this lump sum I may end up using it to gain a licence with little or no chance of gaining gainful employment as a pilot at the end.

Is my age (40) likely to hamper my chances of employment? Do airlines of other flight companies like taking on ex service personel? and are there any jobs out there???? having read a few threads on the subject it doesn't look good.

Any advice and guidance will be greatly appreciated.:ok:

[B2N2]

Depends, where would you live and where would you want to work?

[bikerwo]

I live in South east England, and would hope to work around London.

[blueskiesup]

Hi Bikerwo,

Being 40+ shouldn't hinder you too much,I got my break at 38 with a TP company. I'm still with them, but in the left hand seat.

I'm also ex services and the former chief pilot was ex RAF and liked the forces guys.

Our company would like to hire more older guys due to them sticking around longer than the younger ones who have an eye on the big shiney jets.

There's definately movemment in the profession at the moment, just have a think of who you expect to fly for.

[Dan the weegie]

Our company would like to hire more older guys due to them sticking around longer than the younger ones who have an eye on the big shiney jets.

Finally someone has caught on to the fact that the over 35s are worth hiring :).

I started training at 32 and got my break at 35/36 in a TP company in Europe, so I did get a job and I do love it. The downside is I'm not at home as much as I'd like, the exchange rate is annoying. I can't afford to be too picky as I'm now past the point where some airlines start to look at your age in a negative light. You would have more options open to you if you were younger, you'll be about 42 or 43 by the time you're ready to get a job and it's a massive gamble.

The other thing to remember is despite the fact that you dont feel any different to what you did when you were 20 your ability to learn is somewhat diminished so it's going to take longer and with a fair bit more work than the young ones take to get through it. More expense to consider and 21 year olds sitting in your brush up class telling you how easy everything is does not stop being annoying.

That in mind, you would still be able to get a job, but you wont be able to be too picky about it and you may have to accept working a distance from home on a commuting contract.

[bikerwo]

Thanks, finally a bit of positive news, all I've read to date is doom and gloom.

Excuse the stupid question but what is tp?

[taxistaxing]

It means a turbo prop as opposed to jet aircraft.

[bikerwo]

Hi blueskisup,

Not that it's all about the money, but what sort of annual wage would I be looking at starting with a TP company?

Oh and thanks all for the replies.

[r1flyguy35]

Just a quick Q.

Why you looking at TP & possible jets?

I suggest you could start with even going the instructor route if you just like flying!

You need to see what your aims are look at your options, it may give posters on here more scope to answer your questions

If its purely TP's or jets, good luck anyway.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

BikerTwo,

Firstly welcome to the world of aviation and welcome to PPRUNE.

It is not unheard of to get a job at 40 plus. As has been mentioned, it does narrow down your options in the jobs that will be available to you when you finish your licences. There are airlines around, as said, typically TP operators that will look favourably on more mature pilots. I have known a couple of guys to get jobs with Biz jet operators too. I am sure you have done more research, but in this game its all about timing and getting to know the right people. Of course flying jets will be a little more tricky, purely because in this day and age you will need experience before you are eligible to apply for those types of jobs.

As an First Officer on a TP and depending on the airline you can typically earn anything from around £23K upwards, Captains will earn £40K plus.

All the best with it.

[Dan the weegie]

Bikerwo, you'll be looking at around 20-25k in the first three or four years. The progression to Captain can be quite fast in these wee airlines so you could expect a reasonable 40-60k depending on what you're flying but your long term earning potential will not rise much above that.

It's not all smiles though but I can only go based on my own experience as an elderly FO (hah!)

[bikerwo]

R1flyguy35,

My aim, like many would be to begin a career as a pilot, if I was to go down this route instructing would not pay sufficient to pay the mortgage. That said of course it would be great for getting hours up and keeping in the air.

Career wise Wouldn't be too bothered by flying TP or jets, clearly jets offers the money and lifestyle but,I'm not that naive to think that would be easy to get into, plus providing I earn enough to pay the bills, my pension will provide the rest.


Magicmick,

Thanks for the post, great to hear of the experience of ex forces guys, both + and -, gives me more info to base decisions on. Did resettlement cover a lot of your PPL? Didn't think the scheme would go that far, great if it does though.

Again the thanks to all those who replied, I really value any and all opinions.

[Dogfactory]

For what I have learned so far, planning and wondering what is best and what is not is a waste of time. I believe everyone over 40 with no aviation experience (like myself) should just start somewhere and leave the future to its chances. Start flying and later on you can begin wondering "what if". By thinking about the possible job opportunities you just wait for someone to take your place.

[magicmick]

Hi Bikerwo

The only part of my PPL and night rating that I had to pay for was the return flight to Florida. I trained at a place called Ormond Beach Aviation, I think that it's called EASA Flight Training now. At the time the school owner was an ex army infantry Sergeant who had left the military, flown commercially for a while and then started his own flying school. As ex military he understood the resettlement payments system very well and tailored the course prices to match the resettlement entitlements as best he could. Not sure if he's still the boss out there now but if you do a search on OBA or EASA within PPRuNe you'll find a lot of feedback on the school, some very positive and some very negative with very little feedback in the middle.

[magicmick]

Hi bikerwo

Just seen some info that might be of interest to you, please check your PMs

[slayerdude]

Knew a guy ....... Took his first flying lesson at 36.... Got his cpl and instructor rating at 38..... Gave up his lucrative insurance business to instruct full time cos he enjoyed it so much.... 6 years later an expanding airline called him up to interview.... He was employed as a co-pilot of a a320 at age 44 .... That was 6 years ago .... 2 years ago at 48... He completed his command course.....skipper of a a320 at 48..... Granted he was at the right place and right time..... Doesn't mean it can't happen for u!!!!! Gd luck....indeed it is never too late

[Smudger]

Magicmic... you weren't a military pilot, you had to work for a living... what the hell did that mean ?

[Air Miles]

Hi all,

Always wanted this to be my career path and in 2006 I got close to running the process of applying to the Easyjet scheme. However due to varying family and other circumstances at the time I put a pin in it.....

I'm 33 before the end of the week and would literally be starting from scratch! Have I left it too late?

Honest opinions please gang - I can take bad news!

[v1rotate1]

You only get one shot in life so why not take it? If you don't you'll only end up always thinking 'if only I'd........'

As long as you have the finances and family/personal stability why not.

I'm sure they'll be loads of cynics telling you not to because it may not have worked out for them, but see if it'll work for you.

Good luck and go for it:D

[RTN11]

Very few people these days are going straight from flying schools into airline jobs. You will need something extra. For me that was flying instruction.

I instructed for three years. I probably could've pushed for an airline job earlier, I delayed my IR and MCC courses, but ultimately I loved instructing, and held out for the airline job I really wanted. The reality is that as a flying instructor that you just don't earn enough money to get by, and it will be a shock if you're leaving a well paid job.

So if you have the budget to not only pay for all the flight training required, CPL IR etc, but also other ratings such as instructor, and then still be able to live for a few years on a reduced wage, then go for it.

Don't take this post the wrong way, I'm not being cynical or anything. I love the airline job I am in now, it was well worth all the sacrifices I made, and I'm well on track to being debt free by 30. But the realistic truth is that you need to budget for a lot more than just your CPL/IR, and as long as you go into it aware of this, then go for it.

[Pilotech]

I started when I was 32. Hard work and a couple of lucky breaks now loving my career choice and never looked back.
Will have to expect a lot of disappointment and economy hasn't hit the business in full yet but good luck !!!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I couldnt agree more with what has been written above. I started instructing at 30, and joined Bmi at the age of 32. I went across to BA last May with the integration and am now enjoying working for the flag carrier of Britain.

I was only with a friend today who almost lost his life to Cancer, and one thing that came up in our conversation was striving for your dreams and dont look back, life is too short.

Of course your circumstances have to be right, and you have to want to succeed. It wont be easy, but for me and a lot of others here the benefits are worth the sacrifices as long as you are sensible.

I wish you all the best.

[maxdrypower]

Chapes/ chapettes
Just give you my take on this .

I started commercial training at 38 , now 43. This was following a career in the RAF as an Engineer and a longer career as a cop.

A the time I started my training (early2008) Things were okay but to thems what was in the know it was just about pre-recession days.

I chose the modular route for my own well researched reasons . But about 3 months into the GS Excel went tits up and that for me really signalled the start of the current decline in the industry .

It took me just over a year . I did not have hour building to do as I had had a PPL for many years so hour building had been done by default really.

Luckily for me I had a friend who owned a flying school and had always promised me a job should I gain an FIR. So this is what I did . The poor chap who was my training partner of the FIC in 2009 hasnt flown since and has gone back to being a teacher , he was 38.

Unfortunately as a lot of instructors will tell you flying schools can be run by shysters and it is very difficult to gain good salary ,good working conditions and fair play. A such I did it for two years and thoroughly enjoyed it teaching everyhting up to the CPL/IR. I got sick of not being paid and being trated like a txxt because money was talking more than quality flight training.

I was then fortunate enough to get a job flying Air Ambulance and Single pilot freight ops . This is awesome flying and the experience is fantastic . It doesnt pay very well but its a sellers market . I managed as a result of this to get into the hold pool for a large cargo carrier and am just awaiting a call.

So for me the gamble payed off and one line of work has led me to the other , almost in the career ladder that we saw ten fifteen years ago, which no longer really exists .

Older guys note , there are chaps on here like me who have had a lucky break , but there are far more who havent and are back in their old jobs having to do IR and ME renewals every 12 months .

Our life experience is not valued by airlines nor it is desired . Companies like CTC have monopolies on feeding lambs to the expensive slaughter that is flexi crew and such like , and RYR are assisting in pissing on the industry with PTF schemes etc etc . This is not going to change , its a brave new world . But even these schemes are not interested in PILOTs or older guys they want young folk with daddies money who can be manipulated to whatever end the carrier wishes .

Obviously there are exceptions and occasionally you hear of good luck stories . But of the 15 folk in my initial GS class virtually all are working for RYR those that arent are either instructing or back to old day jobs . And intrestingly all the RYR guys were all under 29 everyone else was above 30 .

There are kids playing hopscotch and conkers in schools throughout the land who have yet to even think of a career choice who have a better chance of flying a jet for an airline than I do . I am 43 with 2100 hrs mostly ghastly overnight flying in a steam driven twin in all weathers , but this counts for nowt . So before you think about giving up your career at a certain age just think about how a 200 hr 40 yr old is going to stack up against a 20 yr old with same blue book .

Like I say I was very very lucky and it worked out for me. But I get calls all the time from friends I trained with friends I met along the way who are all out of work , think about it very very carefully before you leap .

Good luck to all who attempt this , despite the fxxk about factor I love my job , I will never be a millionaire but I get to fly a reasonable sized aircraft every day (almost) on my own around the country , so for me it worked
Take care

[adolf hucker]

And another old starter here with my story.

Started modular ATPL course in '99 at the age of 38. After completion, had an 8 month hiatus applying to everyone and doing some temporary jobs. Got a job with a UK turboprop operator aged 39, 737 a couple of years later and command at 45. Now flying a 777 somewhere hot.

So it is possible to start late and still have a fair crack at the aviation thing but I would add some caveats. I was very lucky with timing - 9/11 happened about 8 months into my first job; if it had happened before I started, I doubt that I would have got that first break.

Also, when I did my ATPL course, the whole thing cost me about £20k and not the £100k that people are paying nowadays. I did not have to borrow money, remortgage a house or otherwise compromise my family's welfare in order to satisfy my curiosity.

I have been lucky and have the luxury of viewing the job from a perspective of having done it. I have enjoyed aspects of it but the reality of aviation nowadays is that low cost flying soon wears thin and is exhausting while long-haul flying tends to be boring and unhealthy. I am grateful to have 'scratched the itch' but consider myself fortunate that I do not have to fly until 60 to meet my financial commitments.

Would I want my kids to become pilots? No. Would I recommend a 38 year old with a viable career to risk a lot to try it? No. Should a 38 year old with sufficient means commit 2 years and £100k in order to give it a go? Sure, why not?

Not trying to be glib and I know that if you have the dream then there is an urge to try it. Just talk to some guys who have been doing the job for a few years before you commit.

[pinheaduk]

this is the one thing that has always scared me and put me off doing what ive always wanted...

im now 31 and keep thinking the longer i leave it the more chance ive got of never realising something that i should have done in my 20's.. i work for a large uk supermarket chain as a bakery manager and althought the money is ok its not the job i ever wanted [as are most jobs]. but ther eis always in the back of my mind 'what if' and now im getting to a point where i should just sell my old vw campervan and my bike and jump into the modular route, take some time off work and go and do as much as i can before my money runs out then work work work until i can afford to do more. im thinking if i do it i could be fully trained f/atpl and with some decent hours behind me by 35-37 which id be hoping still gives me a crack at a career...

im not interested in earning the megabucks just doing the job ive dreamt off and paying the bills would be enough.

[FANS]

Age is less of an issue these days.

The question is always:

Can you afford to no income for 2 years +

Do you have £80k - £100k

Can you then afford to live on a salary that's probably mid-£20k's


I'd say age is less of a factor than it was a decade ago, but the T&Cs (especially the longer term earnings potential) are very different. I seem to remember people joining Air2k on £40k well over a decade ago

[pinheaduk]

thats what i meant in regard to the money - i could happily live on a mid 20's salary but as we all do we always want more :)

and yes its been a dream to fly but i aint a silverspoon kid ive got a crappy old splitscreen van to sell that would part fund some of the training and the rest id work my arse off to get...

my only regret is not starting it in my 20's

[Mikehotel152]

With all due respect to the posters giving positive stories and advising you to go for your dream because 'you only live once', do not do it unless you can afford to waste £60-100,000.

I could give you another 'success story'. I trained at 30 and was extremely lucky to get a job within 9 months of finishing my training.

BUT I had a back-up plan. A good alternative career and a wife with a good enough job to pay all the bills.

There are far MORE people who had the dream, trained and then found themselves in an unemployed nightmare than those who can give you happy stories. They are not on Pprune. They do not come here anymore.

AGE IS MORE OF AN ISSUE THESE DAYS. Very people get into the industry through the traditional flight instructor, air taxi, bizjets, turbo prop route because those parts of the industry have nose-dived.

The only other routes are the locos who are ageist these days - they take sub-30 year olds - or the cadet schemes at companies like BA. Both these recruitment drives can afford to be highly selective and except for the odd exceptional candidate, they will look for young and talented candidates.

I may cop some flak for being so negative, but I honestly would not take the risk if I were an older person. There are already far more qualified pilots than there are jobs.

[taxistaxing]

There are far MORE people who had the dream, trained and then found themselves in an unemployed nightmare than those who can give you happy stories. They are not on Pprune. They do not come here anymore.



While I don't doubt that's true, it doesn't have to be quite so 'all or nothing'. Your other option is training on a modular basis while keeping your existing career going. I totally agree giving up 18 months of income and £80k to OAA/CTC seems ludicrous (unless you're on a tagged scheme, or BA FPP).

I guess the hope is that the market will open up again at the lower end over the next two or three years in some shape or form. My plan is to get the CPL finished off, and then take a view on whether its worth ploughing ahead with the MEIR and/or FI(A).

Worst case scenario I'll end up with an fATPL I can't use, continue with my existing career and just keep flying as a hobby, perhaps doing some instructing.

If you don't try you'll never know!

[Mikehotel152]

I guess the hope is that the market will open up again at the lower end over the next two or three years in some shape or form

That has been the hope since 2006 and thousands of people have trained for the ATPL since then. Thousands have not been employed.

I was tidying up the other day and came across my modular training quote: £37,000. With extras it was more like £45,000. It's the cheapest route and, in my opinion, the most fun way to get the licence. Also, at any stage you can stop if job prospects look to to be deteriorating.

If you don't try you'll never know!

True, but only take the gamble if you can afford for it to go wrong. The odds are stacked against you. Plan to be out of work for a year at least and be pleasantly surprised if you get lucky!

[TylersDad]

So here I find myself at 40, laid off after years working in a field I was never crazy about. How time flies! I obtained my PPL when I was 17 but haven't flown since college--sports and a full academic load had me consumed. I always planned to go back to aviation but I landed a lucrative career out of college and ran for the money, after accumulating debt. 15 years later here I am.

The aviation industry was pretty weak when I got out of college (mid 90s)...another reason I opted for a desk job.

I have NO IDEA what the industry is like today. But aviation is and always has been my primarily interest. I'd love to fly, and am open to the possibilities--airlines, charters, corporate, other.

1- Is it a bad idea to pursue this at my age?

2- If not what are suggested routes to take?

3- What sectors in aviation are most likely to hire someone in my situation?

4- I have been on zoloft for a year (it's like prozac). I have ZERO history of mental illness, I've just had bouts of depression (probably from my boring day job, LOL). Will being on zoloft prevent me from obtaining a PPL or getting hired in the industry? If so, could I stop taking zoloft and proceed with aviation (or is it one of those deals where if you've been on it before, you're out)?

Thanks so much. The help would be beyond appreciated!

[galaxy flyer]

FIRST, speak with an FAA Flight Surgeon on Zoloft and depression, it MAY b limiting or disqualifying depending on the class of physical. You MUST be able to hold a Class I for most commercial flying. Technically, a Class II will be OK, but Class I is required for any airline job.

Then, realize, you are starting from scratch, long, long row to hoe. One that is very expensive. You'll need about $50,000 to $65,000 to get remotely employable. Any airline job requires an ATP and means 1500 hours gained by dint of low paying instructing.

[Halfwayback]

TylersDad
Welcome to the Wannabee forum

You will find lots of people here ready to help you but we do expect you to do a little research before posting and that includes the read before posting notices - where you would have found this thread!

Good luck with the career!

HWB

[galaxy flyer]

TylersDad

Well, welcome to aviation!

HWB

Please give him a break--it's his FIRST post. Happy New Years

[Flying Mechanic]

He who dares wins. If I was you, get back into private flying, get flying on a regular basis, if u want to do it professionally, start networking . You got plenty of years in you.....reading pprune will reveal people older than you have made a career change like you and got a commercial job. I met a taxi driver who was 54, he was part time f/o on a metro and part time cabbie, happy as a proverbial pig in....... He started flight training at 52!!!!

[newtoitall]

I'm considering a career move...

What age do airlines look at a candidate and consider them "too" old?

[davve]

If you're over 25 you wont get a job.

[cefey]

Prob. around 45-50.

[cefey]

@davve
Do you think its easier for guys u25 to get a job?:)

[taxistaxing]

I'm considering a career move...

What age do airlines look at a candidate and consider them "too" old?

There are a few threads on this subject knocking around. Probably more limiting than age is you life situation. The main questions to ask are:

Can you afford the training?

Do you have any of the responsibilities, likely to come later in life, that might prevent you taking a huge pay cut to instruct, and do you have commitments that will prevent you moving abroad to find work as a bush pilot/instructor, whatever?

Where do you want to end up? Flying a jet for an airline, or at a turboprop/GA operation?

If you've spent any time on this forum you'll know you're unlikely to walk into an airline job straight out of training, so you need to consider what you will do to get there, and how you will fund it.

I'm going through training myself so hardly a voice of experience, but the above is all food for thought. Make sure you do your research and have a plan in place before investing in training.

[unflownsky]

My experience :

Line oriented ? 30 is maximum.
Executive ? Really doens't matter. Probably on your 40s is way too much.

[RTN11]

This thread is far more useful

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418583-perpetual-am-i-too-old-thread-2010-12-a.html

Half the people who I know who were employed in the last year by the company I now work for were 30-35, so I wouldn't say anything over 25 is a problem.

Over 40 I wouldn't bother starting, you will be slower to learn the new skills required, particularly at the pace expected from you on a type rating, and other life issues and responsibilities are going to make full time training harder.