Non Aircrew in Leather Jackets [Archive]

Roadster280

8th Jul 2010, 16:57

"Things aren't looking so good, we have Nimrod MR2 retired and MRA4 is later than a bag of late things. C130s, VC10s and Tristars are knackered but still no A330s or A400M. Stations are being chopped, and manpower reduced".

"Yes, yes, I understand, but what about these smart jackets we can wear now?"

Pontius Navigator

8th Jul 2010, 17:08

Wait until after the redundancies :}

vecvechookattack

8th Jul 2010, 17:16

Exactly..... Once the redundancies are announced then we may see a different opinion.

charliegolf

8th Jul 2010, 17:16

Given that non-aircrew SNCOs and above can now wear the 'aircrew' black leather jacket.

.. then it's now more properly called ....... a leather jacket. So no, for that reason alone, not me. (And as a civilian, I regard myself as, 'above':ok:)

CG

Biggus

8th Jul 2010, 17:19

More a case of waiting for now......on the basis that once the redundancies are announced and start to occur there will be a lot of cheap second hand leather jackets available to buy! ;)

Dengue_Dude

8th Jul 2010, 18:52

Having been made redundant by DHL, I took my leather jacket with me.

Should I not wear it now I'm not flying?

Just a heretical thought - leather jackets were around quite a long time before the first aircraft.

J.A.F.O.

8th Jul 2010, 18:54

Don't be ridiculous, leather jackets and aircrew were invented on the same day.

The B Word

8th Jul 2010, 19:26

When did the "Dark Blue" jackets turn "Black" then??

RAF Uniform Policy changed on 10 May 2010. As part of these changes, the wearing of a privately purchased leather flying jacket with No 2 Dress, in lieu of the current General Purpose Jacket, was authorised. Previously this jacket was only authorised for aircrew. This authorisation has now been extended to all RAF Officers, Warrant Officers and Senior Non-Commissioned Officers.

Specification

Leather
Specially prepared hide.
Colour
Dark Blue.
Lining
Cotton Drill - Grey.
Cuffs
Storm cuffs incorporated inside sleeves.
Epaulettes
Secured with velcro.
Sizes
36" to 50" regular or long cut.
Pricing
38" - 44" £220 +VAT
46" - 50" £240 +VAT

Taken direct from the Aviation Leathercraft website.

Blighter Pilot

8th Jul 2010, 19:45

If it's uniform then surely it should be issued free of charge to ORs???

Leather Jackets???? How about some NVDs that are less than 3 years old and haven't been used by another air force first:mad:

The B Word

8th Jul 2010, 20:03

"Chip Bag" Forage Caps and Stable Belts are uniform and not "issue" but "Personal Expense" to ORs...

PS. I don't think that NVD/NVGs are "Personal Expense" items just yet (unless the defence cuts are really, really bad :}).

D O Guerrero

8th Jul 2010, 21:06

You mean to say people actually pay money for those chip bag hats? To look like a total douche?

Lima Juliet

9th Jul 2010, 06:48

"You mean to say people actually pay money for those chip bag hats? To look like a total douche?"

Better than a "Frank Spencer" Beret!

http://www.moviecatcher.net/images/michael-crawford-as-frank-spencer.jpg

Mmm, nice!

By the way, these type of hats are also worn by several Army Regiments with Barrack Dress...

http://www.walkthisway.co.uk/walkthisway_images/ra_side_cap.jpg
Royal Artillery

http://www.herbert-johnson.co.uk/photos/reme.jpg
REME

So get over it, sweet-heart!!!

TBM-Legend

9th Jul 2010, 07:42

Douglas Bader didn't wear a leather jacket!

The B Word

9th Jul 2010, 08:39

Douglas Bader didn't wear a leather jacket!

No, but he insisted on wearing a "chip-bag" with his No1s! Also, the variance of "uniform" in the Britsh Army is positively encouraged as far as I am aware - I've never seen 2 Army Officers look the same, even from the same Regiment!

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00657/news-graphics-2008-_657072a.jpg

As LJ says "Get over it, sweetheart!"...:{

The B Word

9th Jul 2010, 08:45

How about cravats with No 1s as well... :}

http://www.icons.org.uk/library/stock-images/spitfire/npg-mw71639.jpg

And different coloured slacks, whilst we're at it...

Pontius Navigator

9th Jul 2010, 08:45

Leon, very sweet.

BTW, my colonel needs a stable belt to belt his paunch in. I would love to have seen him do the CBT.

The B Word

9th Jul 2010, 09:06

Vigilantpilot

You missed on your "Douche Bag LIst":

8. A set of Glider Pilot Wings.

http://www.stewart-aviation.co.uk/images/050.JPG

:E:E:E

philrigger

9th Jul 2010, 10:45

;)

At least Douglas Bader wore his chip bag at a decent angle. Not like an italian ice cream seller!

J52

9th Jul 2010, 12:51

Chip bag hats??? I thought the correct slang for these was a slang word for a prized piece of the female anatomy, at least it was when I was in the services - Hint. also started with the letter c.

Lima Juliet

9th Jul 2010, 20:42

At least Douglas Bader wore his chip bag at a decent angle. Not like an italian ice cream seller!

But sometimes like a short French Emperor (he's the one sat down!):

http://www.acesofww2.com/Canada/aces/z_images/turner_bull_grassick_bader.jpg

minigundiplomat

9th Jul 2010, 22:34

You don't have to own a leather jacket and a chiphat to be a knobber, but it does take away the guesswork from a distance.

Loving the glider wings.

Seldomfitforpurpose

10th Jul 2010, 07:46

No self respecting SNCO, Aircrew or otherwise would purchase or wear one of those leather jacket thingy's :p

Aggamemnon

12th Jul 2010, 15:08

0201 ... No 1A SD Uniform (Ceremonial Day). No 1A SD is identical to No 1 SD, except that ceremonial sash and shoulder boards are worn by entitled officers. It is worn when No 1A Dress is appropriate formally on parade or in a formal representative role. The No 1A SD Uniform is restricted to:
(1) AVM rank and above.
(2) Officers assigned to the 1 Star posts of Comdt RAFC Cranwell, Air Officer Wales and Air Officer Scotland/NI. DNS (RAF), by nature of appointment, wears the AO sash but not ceremonial boards.

0202. Hat. Only the service issue No 1 SD hat may be worn

FrontRowUnion

12th Jul 2010, 15:46

So, with the new dress regs, I can confirm that the latest "total douche" outfit is as follows:

1. Chip bag hat -
Wouldn't be seen dead in one !!!!!
2. Blues -
Have to wear 'em, not aircrew - better fitting than a growbag (JUST!!!!)
3. Trousers that have been specially tailored to accommodate the stable belt -
See #1
4. Stable belt (helping to disguise a paunch) -
See #1 (besides they probably don't make 'em my size !!!!!!)
5. Leather jacket - preferably very new and stiff looking -
See #1 (stiff looking - the jacket or the wearer???)
6. Parade shoes with metal toe and heel inserts (worn for everyday use because the wearer likes the importance it adds to their stride) -
See #1, besides these beggers are a fire hazard where I work
7. ID card worn on a lanyard around the neck -
Useful for the proximity pass, it stops you sticking your hand in your pocket every time you go in or out the door

However, returning to the original thread, these things are really only for aircrew and COMPLETE THROBBERS. Looking forward to seeing all the storemen and adminers wearing them at a secret Norfolk Bomber Base very soon !!!

:eek: :yuk: :eek: :yuk:

Not me ref, scrum-half did it and scarpered !!!!!!

Mr C Hinecap

12th Jul 2010, 19:22

Just so you chippy chaps know - new pattern RAF belt will be general issue and trousers will be changed to reflect the wider belt.

A couple less things for you to have on your list of hated dress - everyone will have them.

Lima Juliet

12th Jul 2010, 19:34

C Hinecap, Hurrah! :D:D:D:D

By the way...

4. Stable belt (helping to disguise a paunch) -
See #1 (besides they probably don't make 'em my size !!!!!!)

...do they make trainers in your size? Or are you anorexic???

Latest pattern unisex RAF stable belt featuring chrome locket and nickel slide. Sizes: Standard width 6.5 cm; small 79-86 cm (to fit waist up to 28"), medium 89-94 cm (to fit waist up to 34"), large 102-107 cm (to fit waist up to 40")and x-large 104-112 cm (to fit waist up to 44"). Also available in following outsizes: xx-large (to fit waist up to 48"), xxx-large (to fit waist up to 54") and xxxx-large (to fit waist up to 60").

...and...

Genuine RAF male and female stable belts featuring leather strap, nylon buckle and nickel slide. Male sizes: Standard width 7.5 cm; small 79-86 cm (to fit waist up to 28"), medium 89-94 cm (to fit waist 34"), large 102-107 cm (to fit waist 40") and extra-large 104-112 cm (to fit waist 44"). Female sizes: Standard width 6.5 cm; small 79-86 cm (to fit waist up to 28"), medium 89-94 cm (to fit waist 34"), large 102-107 cm (to fit waist 40") and extra-large 104-112 cm (to fit waist 44"). From "Cadet Direct"...

From 28" to 60" waist!

Hmmmm...:hmm:

BEagle

12th Jul 2010, 19:36

.............new pattern RAF belt will be general issue and trousers will be changed to reflect the wider belt.

Well that only took about 36 years to achieve then.....:hmm:

Chip bags, tw@t hats, c**t caps, call them what you will, but they are utter $hite.

Only marginally less awful than the beret - which no self-respecting officer should ever wear!

Lima Juliet

12th Jul 2010, 19:40

which no self-respecting officer should ever wear!

BEags, well said Sir :D

Sadly, I look a complete cnut in a No1 hat - much more than I do in a chip bag!

LJ :ok:

Biggus

12th Jul 2010, 20:01

Why?

We are as skint as a skint thing that's skint. So why are we issuing belts to people that didn't want them, and getting the vast majority of trousers in current circulation altered to accommodate the new pattern RAF belt - all of which must come with a not inconsiderable associated cost?

So we can all look "uniform"? To uplift morale? "We can't pay the chaps any more, or even keep most of them in a job, or send them on any jollies, but we can give them all a new belt!!!"

Lima Juliet

12th Jul 2010, 20:12

For the 3,000 people left in the RAF after SDSR, that makes the bill about £15k!!! :}:}

Mr C Hinecap

13th Jul 2010, 05:40

Biggus - at what point between 1918 and now do you think we got the uniform right? Was it the hairy mary? Perhaps the Thunderbird jacket of yore? Things change.

For the old and bold slagging the chip bag - it was always the aircrew who extolled the virtues of the forage cap to me.

Vim_Fuego

13th Jul 2010, 06:08

Finnpog

13th Jul 2010, 06:18

Mr C said
Perhaps the Thunderbird jacket of yore?

I remember that cheeky rascal. That was an embarrassment.

For the old and bold slagging the chip bag - it was always the aircrew who extolled the virtues of the forage cap to me.

I know that there is a strong prejudice against it - but it is a part of the heritage and even now has something of the summer of 1940 about it - and it fitted conveniently in a flight suit pocket in exactly the same way that a No1 cap doesn't.

They don't look as cock as a slashed peak:E

Biggus

13th Jul 2010, 06:32

Mr C H,

Yes, things change. However, it should always be the case, but more especially so when you are short of money, that the things that change should be those that need to for a valid reason, better performance, safety, cost effectiveness, etc. Not cosmetic changes for which there is no apparent need or appetite. Apparent change for change sake sends all the wrong messages, and gives the impression that someone higher up the command chain is fiddling while Rome burns.

However, given the approach you normally adopt on pprune threads I don't expect you to agree with this point of view.....

dctyke

13th Jul 2010, 06:37

So in the upcoming SDR I think they will very possibly take the aircraft I fly on away from me (E3) but at least as I sit there pondering my next move I can do it in the knowledge that we expended 'X' (C Hinecap you appear genn'ed up on these matters...How much is the new belt and trousers costing?) amount of pounds on something that is neither here nor there when we are in times of pay freezes, cuts to services and argueing the toss over whether I had the rice for receipting purposes...The old belt held my trousers up OK...and everyone elses to from what I saw...In these current times this sort of expenditure comes across as sheer lunacy...

In the 90s (When we were rapidly closing RAF Hospitals) I was in a job that had me in regular contact with the RAF Ceremonial Dept. Nobody could ever tell me why we wasted thousands giving everybody in the ranks a new No1 uniform and an SD Cap badge that no-one knew how to properly sew to a hat which was made to have the metal badge attached. The cynical folks suspected some retired ex RAF was doing very well in a civilian directorship!
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=5805285)

NUFC1892

13th Jul 2010, 09:53

In around 1990/1 the AMP Liason Team proudly briefed that a stable belt was being introduced as a free issue as a Quality of Life improvement. In 1992/3 the next AMPLT presentation I went to briefed that the free issue was to be cancelled as nobody then on the team could work out how anyone's QoL could possibly be improved by being given a stable belt!

A rare application of common sense that the RAF DPC seems to have temporarily mislaid :D

Mr C Hinecap

13th Jul 2010, 10:59

Apparent change for change sake sends all the wrong messages, and gives the impression that someone higher up the command chain is fiddling while Rome burns.

I'm well versed as a victim in this speciality.

"OC MSF - I want you to come up with a plan and instigate it to reduce the carbon emissions of RAF Tattershall. Reduce our MT fleet use."

"Sir - what are the carbon emissions of a RB199 engine? Can we have a 'no fly hour' and hit targets for 10 years in one hit?"

"Foxtrot Oscar and reduce MT use."

I don't know the cost - but I do know RAF Tattershall FOD incidents cost £14m on engine repair alone in 2002. Messing around with uniform cost so little, compared to the real numbers, that none of the 'but we're skint' arguements hold water. Get rid of an a/c type - that saves real money.