View Full Version : UAE GCAA 'FDP' vs 'flight time'


Old King Coal
6th Jul 2010, 16:41
Looking at our FTL scheme (and CAR OPS) it defines 'Flight Duty Period' (FDP) as starting from time the crew member commences duty (i.e. report time) and ends at chocks-on / engines-off at the end of the last sector.

However, wrt to the 100hr flying limit within 28 days, it makes reference to 'the aggregate of all previous flight times'... and yet seemingly nowhere is the term 'flight times' defined.

So is it referring to:

100 hours of FDP? or
100 hours total block-to-block? or
100 hours total take-off to landing?

I ask because, with the nature of flying that we are presently doing (short-haul multi-sectors) here in GCAA land, one can easily do 9 hours of FDP yet only achieve only 5 hours total block-to-block..... and if you do enough of this (and we do) it amounts to a large difference between the two.

So has anybody got a definitive answer and / or reference for this under the GCAR's?



Desert Budgie
6th Jul 2010, 19:00
It is referring to your block time. Basically any time you are actually operating the aircraft.

FDP is from sign on until chocks on on the final sector.

DP is sign on until sign off. You are allowed 190 hours duty in 28 days!

For some more info on fatigue, flight, rest and duty requirements refer to the UK CAA CAP 371. It is actually referenced in the CAR OPS Subpart Q in section CAR-OPS 1-1120. Quote:

''Note: Unless otherwise specified, the UK Civil Aviation Authority document Civil Aviation Publication, CAP 371 and its applicable parts, with associated amending notices, shall be the basis of assessment of operator schemes.''

Cheers

DB :ok:

Modhesh
6th Jul 2010, 19:26
However, wrt to the 100hr flying limit within 28 days, it makes reference to 'the aggregate of all previous flight times'... and yet seemingly nowhere is the term 'flight times' defined.

Flight time is defined as:-

#‘Flight Time – Aeroplane’ means the total time from the moment an aeroplane first moves for the purpose of taking-off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight.

Ref CAR Part I Section 1-11.
Under CAR 1.1 General definitions.

FTL's are in CAR Part IV Section 1 subpart Q.

So your 900 and 100 are block to block.(Flight Time)

Available online at
Civil Aviation Regulations (CARs) (http://www.gcaa.ae/en/ePublication/Pages/CARs.aspx?CertID=CARs)

Right then, I'm off to get a life!

Old King Coal
7th Jul 2010, 06:07
Cheers chaps.... therein what happens in GCAA land seems something of a far cry from what happens in the UK (where it's the FDP which is typically limited by the 100 hours in 28 days... well at least that's what's been the limiting criteria in every UK airline that I've ever worked for, and there have been a few!).

Wizofoz
7th Jul 2010, 07:07
OKC,

I worked for teo UK airlines (Astreaus and EasyJet) and both had the 100 in 28 flight time (not duty) limitation.

That is as per Cap 371 21.1 a):-

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF

Oblaaspop
7th Jul 2010, 07:52
King,

I think you are getting a little confused!

Flying hours are not the same as FDP. Both the UK Airlines I worked for before had the same 100 FLYING HOURS in 28 days limitation as we do here..... Basically the UAE GCAA CAR's are a carbon copy of the UK CAP371 (as has previously been mentioned).

Think about it logically eg. You are working for a UK Charter Airline, you report at LGW at 1000hrs for a 1100 departure to PMI (a block time of 1hr 45mins) you spend 2 hrs on the ground at PMI due to a slot and get back to LGW at 1630.

Your total FDP (the time from REPORT to Blocks on back at LGW) is 5.5 hours against a 'FLIGHT TIME' of only 3.5 hours. So using your logic, in a UK roster full of LGW-PMI-LGW you would only actually achieve around 60 FLYING hours before you hit YOUR (incorrect) 100 hour FDP 'Limit'.

Unfortunately you are not the first and will certainly not be the last person to fall foul of the poorly written, badly laid out lawyer diatribe written in the CAP371, so don't worry about it!

Hope this helps?:ok:

Old King Coal
7th Jul 2010, 15:51
Oblaaspop - far from confused, but do let me agree that the way the FTL definition is written is perhaps less than 'succinct'.

wiz - I too was at eJ (sort of / GoFly) and AEU... plus others too; oh happy days. Having reviewed some of my old (UK airline) rosters they are (of course) limited by 'flight time' (block-to-block).

Fwiw, I wrote my initial question whilst having something of a 'tired moment', being momentarily unable to understand why I'm so knackered; whilst ostensibly doing nothing different here to what one did in the UK. Call it a moment of self-doubt, i.e. thinking that I must have fundamentally missed something in the rules as one never seemed as tired there (UK) as one does here (UAE)... perhaps it's all that sand just grinding me down?!
My present (July) roster has 171 Duty hours, 93 Block hours and 42 Sectors... with every likelihood of this increasing (standby call out).

Oh well, time to get ready for yet another flight tonight.... though at least tonight is scheduled (last nights 10pm standby turned into a 1:20am report this morning with 4 sectors... nice!). http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/yahoo/31.gif

Wizofoz
7th Jul 2010, 20:25
OKC,

So I see the "Not getting enough flying" problem at FD has been solved (or, at least, replaced!!).

ekwhistleblower
8th Jul 2010, 02:30
I think you need to be careful what you wish for. The 900 limit is arbitrary at best, from many years ago and not based in any science. The Canuks always keep quiet on this one as I believe their reg allows 1200 in a year and 150 in a month.

Old King Coal
8th Jul 2010, 06:17
Wiz... spot on there mate!.... gotta say that the idea of doing the same number of hours, but with less than half the sectors and with some of those hours spent in a bunk, is starting to look very appealing... do give me a heads-up when they start DEC recruitment over at EK (what with having already passed the full-blown EK recruitment process as part of joining FZ).