Do I really need an RTC JAR?? Is it worth it??

[lotusmutus]

Hi all, so I have been doing some research into pros and cons of getting a UK/European JAR. I have an FAA ATPL and also have an ATPL from a Middle Eastern country where I am currently. At 3800 hours and being a Commander flying 412's and 139's, I have come to the crossroads and am looking into doing my JAR.
Having sat down and worked it out, I am wondering if it is at all worth it. I don't mind getting down and dirty with the writtens, and the medical should be a breeze, but financially, I really don't know if it's worth it. There are many JAR guys who have what I have, and more, yet still come to our company from JARland. There are a lot of really cool guys and am good friends with alot of them. A lot have left the UK/Europe due to conditions, work hours, free time, pay, lack of jobs and many other reasons. Fair play. But if there are no jobs to go to in the UK, and judging by recent police cutting back their helis,and other companies making cuts,and at this time in the UK economy, is there any point??
Also, I have still not got a straight answer out of the CAA as to whether I will need to do an IR rating. I am already an IFR rated pilot on my FAA and CAA Middle Eastern licences, but they have said yes I will, where as another person there will say no I don't!!! Typical. That's possibly a 40 grand uncertainty!!
The pay out here is great with no tax, and after tax in UK would still be pretty good. I guess it really is a personal choice but just wanted to get some views. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated, especially those who have gone through this process.Cheers :ok:

[jeepys]

Decide where you really want to live in your future years and then make your decision based on that answer.

If it's Europe then think about making the necessary plans to be able to work within.

Helicopters seem to have a habit of running and in some cases ruining peoples lives. The issue of gaining a licence also does the same. I know of a few pals working under the FAA system in the US who deep down want to return home to Europe but jumping through the hoops of the whole JAR system is just too much.

[Epiphany]

You don't say why you want a JAR licence. Presumably to work in Europe? If you are an EU citizen and want to fly in Europe then you will need a JAR licence. If you want to fly IFR then you will need a JAR IR. If you have a foreign IR then you may be able to complete the 15 hour course.

LASORS should give you all the information you need.

[longtime lurker]

Also, I have still not got a straight answer out of the CAA as to whether I will need to do an IR rating. I am already an IFR rated pilot on my FAA and CAA Middle Eastern licences, but they have said yes I will, where as another person there will say no I don't!!!From LASORS 2008 Section E (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Section%20E%20-%20INSTRUMENT%20RATING,%20INSTRUMENT%20METEOROLOGICAL%20COND ITIONS%20RATING%20AND%20NIGHT%20QUALIFICATIONS.pdf):

IR Conversion Requirements
These arrangements will provide a route to JAR-FCL IR(H) qualification for the following holders of a current and valid* IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1:

ICAO IR (H) holder to JAR-FCL IR (H)

[...]

If during the course the Head of Training is prepared to state in writing that completion of the FULL course is unwarranted and recommends a reduction, PLD will give the recommendation consideration.

[...]

Prior to commencing the flight training specified below, the applicant shall be the holder of [..] a CPL(H) or an ATPL(H) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1. The applicant shall also be the holder of the helicopter type rating used for the IR(H) skill test, or have completed approved type rating training on that type.

[Requirements]

1. Undertake IR theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved provider and pass all JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at IR level. Applicants who wish to attempt the ATPL(H) examinations must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass all JAR-ATPL(H) examinations.

2. Complete a minimum of 15 hours instrument flight under instruction (including 170A Flight Test) of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT I, or 10 hours in a FNPT II or Flight Simulator.

[...]

5. Additional IR training as considered necessary by the Head of Training of an approved FTO.

6. Pass the JAR IR (H) Skill Test.


Notes

[...]

c. Holder of an ATPL(H) with IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 who meets the 1000 hours flying experience requirements on multi-pilot helicopters as PIC or co-pilot of Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 2.015 may be exempted from the requirements to undergo approved IR training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the skill test, if that licence contains a valid multi-pilot type rating with IR(H) privileges for the helicopter to be used for the ATPL (H) skill test in accordance with JAR-FCL 2.295.


If using the latter exemption, the issue may be getting a 412 or 139 for the test (unless you have other IR types on your ATPL). Standards Document 31 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_Lts_Orgs_Doc31v100.pdf) may help with some names and addresses of training organizations and the types they use. Another option is look elsewhere in Europe.

Hope that helps

[chcoffshore]

Well as you say you get paid well etc, now you have a good rating ie 139 but its not used so much offshore in the UK/EU abiet DK NL and SNS. If you are interested in offshore work then you will stand in line for a Capts slot no matter how much time you have..... Are you willing to take a SFO post? And wait for 4-7 years for a Capt's slot:eek: There are a large number of SFO's looking else where at the moment. If it was me, and you liked your location and conditions then stick to it.
But maybe you are looking for something else other than offshore, well there is a wealth of knowledge on here that might be able to advise you. Good luck.:ok: