View Full Version : Raf EngO medical question
zebbe
30th Jun 2010, 23:14
Hi wondering if anyone could help me with a quesiton regarding medical requirements.
I am looking to apply possibly for an engineering officer position(still considering).
I live an active healthy lifestyle and consider myself to be fit and healthy, and i believe any tests would agree with this however i have possibly a major issue in my history.
Im 23 now, about 5 years ago i went to my docters to have a jab which i missed at school, i passed out and had what the doctor described as a "seizure".
Went to the hospital and was told by a bunch of docters i have epilepsy and i should learn to deal with it etc... i didnt believe them dispite them trying to drill it into me, the guy just stuck me with a needle and i passed out that was all!.
Anyway went to neuro doctor.. booked me a eeg and brain scan, had another "seizure" during the eeg(metal things being scraped on my head was not nice).
Apparently nothing wrong with me on any tests. Everyone was clueless to what was wrong with me, apart from me who insisted there was nothing wrong with me, and that i had just passed out because i didnt like what they were doing to me. (And not had a "seizure" but simply passed out.
Finally went to see another neuro docter, who laughed at all the money wasted on me and told me i had "syncope" and was scared of hospitals. Gave me some leaflet sent me on my way to live my life, since then i have been in hospitals and had jabs.. and never once has this happened to me again!.
I may of been a little squeamish at needles all that time ago but ive dislocated my shoulder several times and put it back in myself and never had a so called "seizure"! (surgery fixed that now).
So im concerned what the view on this would be when my medical history is checked.? I have been told any seizure in last 10 years = no. But i dont see it as a seizure, i just passed out, but im pretty sure thats what the doctor has put down on my history.
Should i possibly go to my doctor and ask to have it expunged from my history?
Sorry for the long post.
Many Thanks
Aerouk
30th Jun 2010, 23:41
zebbe,
Do you not think that if the Doctor watched you take a seizure than possibly he's telling the truth? Not sure if you've seen anyone take an epileptic seizure before but it's not a natural reaction for people who are afraid of hospitals.
Best advice, go speak to the RAF Careers/Medical about it and see what they say and let them make a decision.
Thank you for your reply aero,
Also i do recall the neorologist telling me syncope is usually misconceived as a seizure and some quick googling has informed me that syncope does have some "seizure like effects".
Around 10% of people who suffer syncope (pass out from a situation eg. afraid of being stuck with a needle). Show seizure like effects, not actualy a seizure. And many of them are mis-diagnosed with epilepsy apparently.
But i havnt suffered from it since 5 years ago, i suppose this is going to be a difficult one to explain to the careers office!.
I am now 100% sure what i suffered can not be medically defined as a seizure.
The only question is should i have any terms relating to seizure expunged from my records first as to not cause confusion.
Obivously i will also discuss this with the careers office but thought i would gain some other opinions first.
Pontius Navigator
1st Jul 2010, 11:45
zebbe, see PM
Pontius,
Thank you for your pm, but i fail to see why you needed to send that as a PM not just post it on the forum.
My phrase of "(still considering)" applied to which role in the forces i would like to apply for. I am deeply commited to joining the forces and this is not a rash decision i have had plenty of time in my life to work out what i would like to do and do not need you to tell me that i am not commited enough to join the forces as you can clearly not judge a person on 2 forum posts.
Also, dispite what you may read in the paper i was not 1 of the 26,000 people to apply to BT who was declined due to punctuation errors.:confused:
So thanks again for your unhelpful, unwelcome, and generally demeaning message.
And I thought the standard of English and punctuation made him perfect for the Engineering branch! :}
However, my experience of the RAF Medics would advise you to get anything out of the ordinary, especially seizures or epilepsy, and I have to say, even as lowly as Hayfever, removed if your Doc will comply. That way you have the best chance of jumping that hurdle on initial selection.
is that sarcasm? i realy dont know anymore i havn't read my post back for punctuation & grammer to be honest lol.
My banter was more towards the plethora of spooling orrers in your posts dear chap...but it doesn't seem to be a problem these days so don't worry about it. Friends of mine have just seen their son offered a place at Cranditz for later this year and his spooling is orful! Guess both the times and acceptable standards of English have changed!!
Herc-u-lease
1st Jul 2010, 13:16
Zebbe,
Unfortunately you have somewhat stepped into the lion's den. Members on this forum are red-hot on spelling and punctuation. Do not take this as a personal attack at your own skills, rather it is preparation for your boss "red-penning" your written work should you become a JEngO. RAF Standards are very high and your written words are the only impression you are ale to make on this forum; hence some people may take a dim view if your writing is less than perfect.
As to your medical question, no-one on here is going to give you any advice - only the RAF Doctors/Medical Board can decide if your [previously documented] history is compatible with the demands of the service.
My recommendation to you is to ask the medical question ASAP. If your condition is considered acceptable then see if you can make contact with a local station for a "day with a JEngO" or whatever experience the station can support. You can then at least make an informed decision on whether that is the right branch for you or not.
And now a word of brutal honesty: with the impending Defence Review, high unemployment and strong[er] retention figures for the services at present, the Medical Board have plenty of candidates available for a limited number of places. Some of these candidates will have no history of medical problems whatsoever. So, if you were in the Medical Board's shoes, who would you pick?
I do not wish to deter you, if you're committed you should go for it :ok:. Just prepare yourself for a potentially lengthy process which may ultimately end in disappointment.
H-u-L
Hi herc thank you for your advice,
I understand public service cut backs and defense spending reviews will inevitably have an affect on recruitment and you make a valid point regarding being up against candidates with clean medical historys. But this is not new in regards to job hunting as their are just as many issues and over subscription in applications for private sector jobs also so yes you make a valid point but it will not deter me as whichever job i apply for there is bound to be high competition either way.
Should i book a meeting to speak to the AFCO regarding this or contact a dedicated medical department about this question then?
Many Thanks.
Hi herc thank you for your advice,
I understand public service cut backs and defense spending reviews will inevitably have an affect on recruitment and you make a valid point regarding being up against candidates with clean medical historys. But this is not new in regards to job hunting as their are just as many issues and over subscription in applications for private sector jobs also so yes you make a valid point but it will not deter me as whichever job i apply for there is bound to be high competition either way.
Should i book a meeting to speak to the AFCO regarding this or contact a dedicated medical department about this question then?
Many Thanks.
Clearedtoroll
1st Jul 2010, 13:57
Zebbe, I would recommend you go and see your GP and discuss what your notes say and explain why it matters. Key will be the letter from the consultant neurologist to your GP detailing the diagnosis that was made in your neurology appointment. Your GP should have this letter scanned in to your GP notes/in paper form; the hospital you were seen at should also have records if not.
They can't and won't just expunge something, but if the neurologist with a knowledge of your history diagnosed simple syncope then you probably don't have to worry, as that is what your GP will tell the RAF. If it is in any way unclear, your GP may refer you back to a neurologist for an opinion if he/she believes it would be useful. Good luck
forget
1st Jul 2010, 14:11
zebbe. Some people here are being surprisingly kind to you. I left the RAF decades ago as an NCO, but some things won't have changed. I can tell you that you don't have a cat's chance in hell of getting past the first hurdle to becoming an EngO.
If you think you can squeeze through with your speling and grammer then your attitude will soon produce a heave-ho. Keep us up-dated.
(PS. I've just realised that zebbe is taking the p*ss - but I'll post anyway.)
Pontius Navigator
1st Jul 2010, 14:27
Forget, you could be right.
Funny old thing but Herc-u-lease could have even seenthe PM I sent him.
I said it would be brutally honest and I sent it as a PM to give the prat the benefit of the doubt and avoid a public grilling.
While I agree with Herc that only a Doc can give a definitive answer, I told the prat that the RAF does not need to take risks with anyone demonstrably not 100% fit even if the docs were wrong there is still an element of doubt.
His/her reference to the 26,000 that applied to BT only for 6,000 to be binned for poor penmanship was that Zeebe would certainly have been in the reject pile and that pile is VERY real.
That Z cannot take criticism on the chin and learn speaks volumes and bodes well :}
and here is the PM to which it took such exception:
Quote:
I am looking to apply possibly for an engineering officer position(still considering). [/quote]
I shall be brutally honest. I don't think you have a chance given your medical history, true or false. There is clearly some issue and the Services have more than enough high quality applicants that they can afford to chose only the best.
Also the RAF is potentially facing a large drawdown in personnel so your chances, even if fully fit, would be slim.
Your statement that I have quoted could be read two ways - one is that you are examining the medical issues surrounding your application or that you have not really made up your mind whether you want a career in the RAF.
In the latter case it suggests lack of deep seated commitment to serve and more a simple job choice in your eventual vocation.
From what I have read, I believe you would be better employed becoming an engineer possibly in civila aviation if you wish to work with high technology such as aircraft.
PS,
There was an item in the paper this week that BT had 26,000 apply for 600 apprentice posts. 6,000 were rejected out of hand as they did not present their applications properly completed and punctuated. I suspect you might have been in the 6,000. Take heed, attend to the detail of punctuation, spelling and capitalization.
I can take a public grilling no problem post away.
I can also take constructive criticism, you have not provided any of that, all you have done is needlessly stick the boot in and assumed a whole bunch of information without knowing anything about me. I asked a medical question not a question regarding my commitment to joining the forces.
Can also accept my spelling and grammar was not spot on, baring in mind this is a forum not a job application.
I will defer from calling you names in return as i did not come here to do that.
Pontius Navigator
1st Jul 2010, 14:57
There is a tradition in the Service of delivering good news in public and bad news in private. In the latter case it is possible to make your case and for anything said to be retracted.
Once it is in the public domain then it is fair game. Keeping private private is a mark of integrity. A certain 4* General has learnt that the hard way.
I agree with you there.
However you did not provide any bad news based on facts. You provided an opinion of my entire attitude, life, and suitability for the RAF based on one forum post. You probably sent it to me as a PM so you could just have a little kick behind the fence and try to destroy my confidence when nobody was looking.
I thought an ex-serviceman of your experience would not judge somebody and their "attitude" so quickly and maybe look at the bigger picture first before handing down judgment.
I have also replied to your post hercu and thank you for your advice but my reply is somewhere stuck in a moderation queue :ugh:
Zebbe,
I think now you need to perhaps visit the local dentist as well, as PN appears to have uncovered a couple of exposed raw nerves in there somewhere.
Thanks PN for posting your PM as I did wonder what you had said to him to get the response you did. (Obviously some on here can be just blatantly rude when wannabees first post and I wondered if you had just gone straight for the jugular). Your response, IMHO, was measured, constructive and, well, honest! You even kindly suggested an alternative aero-engineering career path should the RAF not work out for him. Nice.
Z - you need to take a chill pill dude and take the comments not as you think they were written but as they were actually meant...as constructive criticism from someone older and wiser than you in the ways of the Service. Let's face it, if you really honestly have two styles of writing, one for here and one for job apps, my advice is to drop the one for here as it is quite frankly awful. Then at least when you do apply for a job you will not get it wrong and write in the 'for this forum' style and thus, your app may not be processed through the nearest shredder.
Lastly, I refer the honourable Gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago - "my experience of the RAF Medics would advise you to get anything out of the ordinary, especially seizures or epilepsy, and I have to say, even as lowly as Hayfever, removed if your Doc will comply. That way you have the best chance of jumping that hurdle on initial selection".
The important bit there is IF your Doc is happy to do so....if there is any medical doubt in his/her mind whatever, they will not do that for you and as PN said, you then have no chance against those with no problems highlighted in their med history. At that point if aero-eng is where you want to be, take PNs advice and start investigating the civilian eng career path; that way you may not end up very disappointed after the Rejection Letter from the RAF!
People on this forum will gladly help (apart from the usual suspects) but you have to chill and be able to see and take advice when it comes, even if to you it appears to come in the form of criticism....an important military trait that you do not appear to have at this point.
AYTCH,
Thank you for taking the time to write that, i must of missed your italic comment before. That is clearly the best advice received, i will speak to my doctor regarding this. I believe after he examines the scenario he will agree with me regarding this and obviously he will not expunge it if he does not feel it should be.
Dont worry i have thick enough skin, i can take criticism on the job, i can take criticism anywhere in my life and take it on board. I just fail to see how somebody can lay down judgment so fast when they know nothing about me apart from one forum post with some bad grammar, also fail to see how any of this criticism has anything to do with my original question.
Personally i dont judge somebody so quick.
I will update you with my progress and i will let the RAF make a decision on my grammatical abilities.
Wingedplumber
1st Jul 2010, 16:23
Someone needs a nap!
:=
Herc-u-lease
1st Jul 2010, 19:43
Zebbe,
AFCO should be your first port of call; they are the people in the best position to advise on how to get medical queries adresssed. I've not seen "onefifty" post on here for a while and as he has recruiter knowledge he may have been well placed to give you some definitive advice on where to start.
H-u-L
OneFifty
2nd Jul 2010, 21:05
Zebbe, you say you want to be an EngO, may I enquire as to what degree you hold? I have to say that, with my Recruiter hat on, judging by the information you have given regarding your medical issues, I would have to say that it would be highly unlikely you would be found medically fit if, indeed, the AFCO staff allowed you to get that far.
Herc-u-lease, thanks for the name check!
Indeed you may ask, i have a degree in computer science which i believe is acceptable for EngO?
I have an appointment with my GP next week in an attempt to have seizure expunged, as medically i did not have a seizure, following this i will book an appointment with the AFCO to discuss and explain my history.
I run 5 miles per day + core and have not had any medical issues in the last 5 years bar several shoulder dislocations from football which has been fixed with surgery so i personally feel i am medically fit, obviously my personal opinion does not count though :)
BGG obviously you wish you were still 10 with your immaturity. :p
Well i thought the " tame recruiter's response" was quite accurate to be fair, asked a question to my degree suitability and made a reasonable comment about my medical history which was what i was looking for when i asked the question to begin with, so im not sure what irony your refering to.
I was just refering to your "brilliant " comment, its hard to tell round here whether its an insult, banter, or a positive comment with it being a forum and all obviously the tone of speak is left out somewhere.
maybe you can clarify what was "brilliant" about it :)
ps. i dont know why you would not expect an honest answer, i feel ive asked some serious questions and have not been dishonest in any way.
forget
3rd Jul 2010, 08:51
... what irony your refering to.
Look no further. Twice.
Top Bunk Tester
3rd Jul 2010, 09:42
Oh dear Zebbe, this does not bode well for you. With your inability to spot irony you don't have any American roots do you?
Also, and this is just an observation, if you 'faint' at the thought of hospitals and needles, what are you going to do if deployed somewhere hot and it starts raining mortars and rockets? :rolleyes:
collbar
3rd Jul 2010, 10:24
I thought the requirement for a Degree for a EngOship had long gone!
A few years ago at Cosford chaps that had failed any other course were sent to do a lowly HNC, this was then deemed good enough for engineering!
To be fair Engineering Guys very rarely actually do any Engineering!! Its all about interpreting the vast amount of conflicting rules in diferent books. Then chossing the most obscure course of action that screws about any chance of actually generating Servicable aircraft... sorry!! does that sound a little bitter and twisted! Its not meant to be.
Interesting to note that FSTA will have no EngO's that can make any engineering decisions!!! They dont have the required experience(5 yrs hands on experience) to make the grade!!
Of course a dubious shoulder injury shouldnt prevent deployment to anywhere....failing your fitness test because of said dogdy shoulder also wont stop deployment.Staying in the mob though...thats something diferent:ugh:
Pontius Navigator
3rd Jul 2010, 11:34
And zebbe thought I was unduly critical and unhelpful in my PM response.
I stand by my comments.
It is rare for a leopard to change its spots from first post to last although there has been at least one notable exception. Maybe OASC will allow the benefit of the doubt
out of simple curiosity:}
Also, and this is just an observation, if you 'faint' at the thought of hospitals and needles, what are you going to do if deployed somewhere hot and it starts raining mortars and rockets?
For arguments sake i was young at the time, people change. Can anyone honestly say they like hospitals...
Oh dear Zebbe, this does not bode well for you. With your inability to spot irony you don't have any American roots do you?
Maybe my inability to spot irony is not the problem maybe you lot are just not ironic enough for my liking.
Thos intyre thred is foll off spooling orrers.....zo mush soe eye cannut standt it onymoor....I'm uff olsewhere!
BGG.....it was brilliant...! and funny too!!! and indeed ironic!!!!!!!
Pontius Navigator
3rd Jul 2010, 13:58
Maybe my inability to spot irony is not the problem maybe you lot are just not ironic enough for my liking.
At last. Look elsewhere then sonny.
OneFifty
3rd Jul 2010, 21:44
BGG
Thank you for pointing out my grammatical error, and my worst nightmare... Oh the shame! I shall hang my head accordingly.
Can anyone honestly say they like hospitals...
For gawds sake man, they are full of Female nurses.....:ok:
....Maybe you should join the Navy.:O
forget
3rd Jul 2010, 21:51
... highly unlikely you would get passed the medical
Yes, but if you reeeeally stretch things isn't this the direct opposite of 'you would get failed the medical'.
I couldn't argue that this is, strictly, incorrect. But no doubt someone will. :)