128 Piccadilly...

[BEagle]

....as most RAF officers will know, is the address of the RAF Club.

Having stayed there a couple of times recently, I found a few things rather....surprising. For instance:

1. Hardly any of the staff have an acceptable grasp of English. If you go to a pub in Town, you can bet that Petra from Warsaw will have a better standard of English than many of the current Club staff. Having faced far more serious problems during their service time, many of the more elderly clientele are perhaps too tolerant to complain about this.

2. The Running Horse is supposed to have a last food order time of 2015. Which is absurdly early. However, last time I was there the staff began to close up at 2005; a couple who placed an order at 2007 were told "We no have chips" - what that really meant was "We can't be arsed to cook any as it's almost closing time".

3. I met a guest in the Running Horse, we placed our food order at 1930. Nothing came and the staff started to clear up at 2000... When we asked what had happened, we were told "Computer not work" - and the trainee had totally forgotten our order.

4. The main dining room is expensive and insists on an archaic evening dress code. I don't expect to wear a t-shirt and jeans in the dining room, but is a collared shirt and tie really essential in mid-June?? It is also very expensive - and there is no other option after 2015.

5. At breakfast, the staff are keen to make you sit at a 'Club table' - presumably to save them the effort of having to make up individual tables afterwards. If I'm paying, I think I'll sit where I want, thanks, not where the staff want.

6. I don't know what the 'Please swipe in' sign referred to - I ignored it.

However, the bedrooms - even the tiniest cells - are fine. Another plus point is that Fred is still the ever-efficient chap he's always been.

Am I just being a GOM? Or have other members similar views?

[Pontius Navigator]

Hardly any of the staff have an acceptable grasp of English.

However one at least of the conceirge staff has a firm grasp of TfL and all about st Clement's Danes.

2. The Running Horse is supposed to have a last food order time of 2015. Which is absurdly early. However, last time I was there the staff began to close up at 2005; a couple who placed an order at 2007 were told "We no have chips" - what that really meant was "We can't be arsed to cook any as it's almost closing time".
Not had that problem but it could be better; much prefered the buttery.

5. At breakfast, the staff are keen to make you sit at a 'Club table' - but you might get to meet interesting people. Last time I was there Paddy Hine was head of table.

6. I don't know what the 'Please swipe in' sign referred to - I ignored it. I swipe but Mrs PN doesn't. How many sign in their guests?

Fred is still the ever-efficient chap he's always been. and you forgot the charming lady behind the bar in the Cowdray Room.

While the charges for overseas guests brings in welcome revenue and a reduction in members' charges, Mrs PN does think we should be shown proper deference and priority. I look forward to my RAF Club "L" tie.



as they only have a XXV tie I shall have to wear two.

[BEagle]

Not had that problem but it could be better; much prefered the buttery.

As did I!

but you might get to meet interesting people. Last time I was there Paddy Hind was head of table

I presume you mean Paddy Hine? In any case, what's this 'Head of Table' thing? Share a table if you wish, but most people probably prefer privacy.

[Biggus]

In my opinion the place is dying on its feet, it's just a matter of time....

The few times in my RAF career that I tried to book into the club there was no space available. The perception, amongst many junior officers, rightly or wrongly (that's the whole point about a perception, it might not be correct, but that doesn't stop it being held), is that all the rooms are booked months in advance by retired senior officers who the junior ranks just end up subsidising.

Anyway, given it used to be half a days pay to belong, after several years of not using the club, the money I had laid out would have easily paid for hotel costs on the rare occassions that I visted London. Terminating my membership was therefore an easy decision to make, and one I have never regretted.

By the way, what was an RAF officer doing ordering "chips" as part of his evening meal.......or was it a guest?:=

[Pontius Navigator]

The few times in my RAF career that I tried to book into the club there was no space available. The perception, amongst many junior officers, rightly or wrongly (that's the whole point about a perception, it might not be correct, but that doesn't stop it being held), is that all the rooms are booked months in advance

Indeed you are right and that was my finding too until I cottoned on to the cancellation rules. Book early, cancel late.

Anyway, given it used to be half a days pay to belong, after several years of not using the club, the money I had laid out would have easily paid for hotel costs on the rare occassions that I visted London.

Equally true and it is the MiL who likes the club so much (she is 86) that I keep it up. But the club does offer a better chance of meeting people if you see what I mean. One I met was a WW2 Catalina pilot; last year it was a Hurricane pilot who had been on the Murmansk detachment. Wonderful.

[Pontius Navigator]

Corrected.

Head of table was a figure of speech. He was in the window seat of a large circular table. Ben Laite had his back to the wall at another.

Another time I remember Sir Michael Beavis on a table for one; he managed to spin the lid off the marmalade and seemed to expect someone to pick it up and bring it back; they didn't.

Yes, sometimes, like breakfast, I prefer privacy.

Ever been to a pongo mess where you all sit next to each other on a long table? :\

[minigundiplomat]

4. The main dining room is expensive and insists on an archaic evening dress code. I don't expect to wear a t-shirt and jeans in the dining room, but is a collared shirt and tie really essential in mid-June?? It is also very expensive - and there is no other option after 2015.



For God's sake man - the club is in Central London; there is an abundance of choice, even after 2015.

Let it go!

[Inspector Dreyfuss]

I agree with quite a few of the opinions above. The place is far too stuffy - and I speak as someone who doesn't mind putting a tie on to go into the Mess bar, even when I was 'living in' over the years.

For example, I stayed in London a couple of years ago to watch some rugby and invited our US exchange officer to come along. He thoroughly enjoyed the experience, and the history of the place, until he innocently made a very discreet, quiet call on his mobile phone in the foyer. No-one else was anywhere within earshot. The staff reacted as if he had exposed his private parts and abused the Queen whilst dancing around the dining room. I completely understand how mobiles can be a pain, but in this case it was a totally unnecessary fuss about nothing that showed us in a bad light. The dress code is also far too restrictive at weekends.

Other similar clubs are not nearly as retentive. The Marine Memorial Club for example, in San Francisco, is far more welcoming, even to 'foreigners' like us. The RAF Club could be a great place to stay but, as Spike Milligan would have said, it is like an inverted cemetary - the stiffs are above the ground. Last time I stayed, my wife refused to take breakfast in the Club because of the intimidating atmosphere. I have thought about quitting but I am probably too stubborn.

[L J R]

You need to put these comments on the clubs web site 'discussion area'. The replies from management are equally as 'last century'....

I agree will all of the above Beagle. The grasp of the language and the lack of 'urgency' to PAYING MEMBERS piss**s me off!

[Pontius Navigator]

The dress code is also far too restrictive at weekends.

Pray do tell?

What would you prefer?

[forget]

Chips for dinner and lids on marmalade. Whatever next. Use the Union Jack Club, better class of people.

[BEagle]

I suspect that 'chips' was easier for the staff to understand than 'french fried potatoes'... And yes, it was a guest.

Ever been to a pongo mess where you all sit next to each other on a long table?

No, but for ultimate efficiency, I recall when the Wardroom at RNEC Manadon fed and watered several dozen JMC attendees in record time at breakfast. "Would you sit here, please sir? Which of these 2 choices would you like?" - meanwhile about 6 places to the left the choices were being delivered. Incredible efficiency - and yet polite and well-mannered at the same time.

mgd, when you've spent all day working in London trussed up in a suit and tie and have returned to the Club at 1900 for a quick shower before dinner, the urge to go out to find somewhere to eat is often lacking. As is the desire to wear a tie for dinner. Although I accept that it might, perhaps, be different for tourists.

Unfortunately the nearby Greek restaurant which was excellent is now a tapas bar.....

[Double Hush]

Although still a member of The Club, whenever visiting the Big Smoke, the Hush Clan tend to stay at the Victory Services Club, just round the corner from Marble Arch. As a serving member of HM Forces, one is automatically a member. The fabric of the club may not be upto the same standard of the RAF Club but is still perfectly acceptable. What makes the VSC stand out though is the staff; they are superb and make every stay enjoyable. They all speak English as well!

[johnfairr]

Beags, if you mean the tapas bar in Down Street (towards Piccadilly Circus), I have found it to be a very fine tapas bar! :ok::ok:

[gsa]

Victory Services Club:ok:

And there’s a nice proper Lebanese kebab shop just down the road for a midnight snack to soak up the Gin.

[Pontius Navigator]

If you have not stayed recently you need to book 2 nights. The first night to switch the TV on, the second day to figure out how it works. They are all singing TV/Internet computers - at a cost - although there is still free-wifi and free internet in the study.

[BEagle]

All bedrooms now have free Wifi connectivity.

The TV system might be complex - I don't know. I just pressed 'TV' then hunted for a digital channel which actually worked without pict r br ak p or inte mi t nt sou d..... Really, terrestrial digital is pretty dire still - whereas cable or satellite actually work.

I don't know what the little keypad thing is for - has anyone used it? I just used the TV remote.

[Tankertrashnav]

Ever been to a pongo mess where you all sit next to each other on a long table? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wibble.gif

I liked that system when I used to eat lunch regularly in an army mess in HK. You sat in order of arrival so you might find yourself with the colonel on one side and the newest subaltern on the other - great idea, and prevented cliques forming. No choice offered, but as I recall the food was pretty good.

Getting back to the club, Im finding it expensive now and I limit my stays to one long weekend a year with Mrs TTN, which, factoring in the ever increasing membership fees, is not cheap. However sitting in the Cowdray with a Bombay Sapphire and tonic, overlooking Green Park just about makes it worth it. (I concur with PN about the excellent lady behind the bar there)

[coffindodger]

Many years ago when i was in the RAF. I used to try and book in to the U.J.
But that was nearly always full.
So by a chance i found the Victory Services Club in Marble Arch,
Much Better now the refurbishment has been completed.
It is about 7 years since i was last in the UK.
but i still hold a membership for the Victory Club.
For me it is a lot better and easier in and out of London town.

[Samuel]

I have stayed there on occasion, colonial air forces are [allegedly] welcome, although I didn't end up staying the last time I tried to book, in 2006. They didn't bother replying either to my e-mail or letter, so I took the hint and gave it a miss.

[shack]

Living abroad with infrequent visits to London I found that when one added the membership subs to the cost (if you could get one) of a room it was cheaper to stay next door at the Hilton, so I cancelled my membership.

[AdanaKebab]

The RAF Club should be reported to advertising standards!

Their title should read "The Senior and Retired RAF Officers Club".

I haven't been a member for years. I cancelled after I found out the Diners club was only open to Wg Cdr and above.
Racist ... that's 'rankist' ! :sad:

[Saintsman]

Chips for dinner and lids on marmalade. Whatever next. Use the Union Jack Club, better class of people.

The quality of the bedrooms leave a lot to be desired though and it's not that cheap any more. Nice atmosphere there mind.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I stayed there a few weeks ago. We had a black tie dinner in one of the private rooms for a retiring boss of mine - not somethnig I'd ever attended before and doubt there will be many more since. It was excellent. The staff were nearly all Eastern European in origin - much like the splendid chaps from Poland who flew so well all those years ago. They were polite and efficient and I can't fault any of them. The dining room for Saturday breakfast was, as ever, superb. Ever-helpful staff re-arranged tables so our group could sit together and the food was up to the usual highest standards.

I suggest grumpy members contact the committee with their gripes. I'm sure AVM Wiles would appreciate a note regarding experiences over the virtual bumping of gums on an anonymous forum.

[BEagle]

Combat blunty, the point being made is whether members have experienced similar issues or whether some of us simply happen to have been unlucky.

The staff with minimal English with whom I had contact were assuredly NOT from Eastern Europe. Most workers who come from Eastern Europe who work at point-of-sale do indeed have a good understanding of English. These people didn't....

[Gainesy]

Well, you get Geordies everywhere since the pits closed BEags.:)

[mike rondot]

BEagle
I found a few things rather....surprising. For instance:

1. Hardly any of the staff have an acceptable grasp of English. If you go to a pub in Town, you can bet that Petra from Warsaw will have a better standard of English than many of the current Club staff. Having faced far more serious problems during their service time, many of the more elderly clientele are perhaps too tolerant to complain about this.

Your opening remarks give the impression you are a racist. I commented on this but my post was deleted by mods. You now tell us:

The staff with minimal English with whom I had contact were assuredly NOT from Eastern Europe. Most workers who come from Eastern Europe who work at point-of-sale do indeed have a good understanding of English. These people didn't....

You appear to be in a hole.

Stop digging.

Mike Rondot (one of the elderly clientele)

[BEagle]

There is a difference between 'racism' and a statement to the effect that many of the staff do not have an adequate grasp of English.

Those Eastern Europeans who work in London generally have very good standards of English - go into any bar or restaurant in Town and that is evident.

Whether they are pink, green or sky-blue pink or from which country they come from is utterly irrelevant; what is relevant is that employment of staff who are unable to communicate satisfactorily is unacceptable.

How on earth you can deem such views as 'racism' is frankly beyond me. Race and communication are totally different things.

[Trumpet_trousers]

Beags, PM for you.

[Mr C Hinecap]

If we're name-calling...

Relic-of-a-bygone-age - if you have something to say regarding the RAF Club (which I guess you have been a member of for quite some time), proper form would be to address the RAF Club. You bang on about standards and their terminal decline, yet pick and choose when you tell us how an Officer should behave and when you whinge on an open forum.

I say again - take it up with the RAF Club. I can help address the envelope and the cost of a stamp if you wish!

[EESDL]

...I think that the Tapas restaurant is nocalled El Piratas (or something like that) not cheap but v good, always end up there if can't be bothered to carry out an Ascot shuffle.
In-laws stayed there on Tuesday - no problem booking room - no complaints yet - they should be arriving on my doorstep soon so will no doubt receive full debrief - Yanks! oops racist!!

[BEagle]

Mr C, if on my next visit I find the same thing, then I will probably do as you suggest. However, it may have been that on the last couple of visits there was perhaps an influx of trainees, so may have been a temporary state. Hence the trawl to elicit whether others had experienced the same - or was it just one of those things which sometimes happens....

Rgds, Bygone Relic....:p

EESDL - Thanks for your info. Having googled 'Tapas Down Street', I found that it's actually 'El Pirata'.Iberian ham, from the rare semi-wild acorn fed black foot pig The pig? No wonder it's rare......

[ShyTorque]

You can stay in a proper hotel for similar money.

[Pontius Navigator]

Shy, no doubt, but I don't enjoy proper hotels to that extent. There was an exception where I went about very 6-8 weeks but it was really a BinB village hotel.

In a proper hotel the staff do not recognise you which, in the club with infrequent visits they do. As I said to someone in a PM, there car parking arrangements are excellent too.

Are you likely to meet like-minded individuals or even old aquaintences?

Club has it all. Oh, and a proper library.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

You can stay in a proper hotel for similar money.

Only if on leaving the service you can actually let go and become a civilian :ok:

Can't comment of the O's Club but I used the VSC last year and it felt no different to the Sgt's mess at Valley back in 87 or any other I have subsequently been in.

I leave the RAF in Nov 12 after 38 and a bit years and I have told Mrs SFFP if I ever express a desire to put on a blazer, slacks, black lace up's and a Sqn tie so that I can join the crusty old feckers wingeing on about how the bar shut early or the staff were not very good she is to put domestos in my tea :p

[Pontius Navigator]

she is to put domestos in my tea :p

Does that work like bromide? :)

SFFP, I haven't had the urge to buy grey pants yet either but my late father in law became involved in the Royal Naval Association and later the Charybdis Association after he retired and some 45 years after he left the Navy. Never say never.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

PN,

Sorry but when I ever I see mention of the O's Club I am always minded of this "guest"

5035TY5RSpg

[Rossian]

...why is it that a thread starts off reasonably and within a very short space of time degenerates into abuse? Racism is a strong imputation.

I have hesitated to join in this thread beause I have not been a member for many years and when I do stay it is as a guest of a friend. Years spent in the maritime world meant that visits to the smoke were very rare.

Beagle started this thread partly as a response to a passing remark I made in another thread. He then said that he wouldn't hijack that thread but would start another,this one.

I think one would have to work quite hard to find anything racist in his comments in this thread so far. But then, as we are all aware, there is always someone around ready to take offence at imagined slights of themselves or of others.

My direct experience is of having 5 attempts to sort out a bill in the dining room. The chap was from one of France's old African colonies; and when in an effort to finally resolve it I offered to do it in French, he grasped my hand and almost burst into tears of relief. He was at the end of his first day/evening in the dining room and his more experienced colleagues had dumped on him to do the last of the clearing the room of BOFs and tables. The real problem lay in inadequate staff training.

On another occasion I watched an Italian lass struggle to direct the staff and take orders from crusty old bs and get tables relaid at breakfast. One of the lads was Polish and was struggling to get cutlery in the right order, again his first morning in the job. I indicated to him to come over and suggested he took a mental piccy of our untouched table and imitate it. Off he went, and when he finished the first table he looked over with raised eyebrows: a surreptitious thumbs up and on he went to the next, looking monumentally relieved.

The staff turnover I'd take a guess, is pretty high, so the training part of the job needs even more attention.

So, to the tender offence-takers, may I suggest you get off Beag's back and stop throwing serious imputations around.

The Ancient Mariner

[dinoorin]

Well I like it:ok:
I regularly travel EMEA and the usual hotel chains.
Thoroughly enjoy working in London - when I can get a room booking in the club I do. Makes the stay much more relaxed IMHO anyway.