Exit row requirements

[bjh123]

I recently flew from Zurich to Amsterdam with a major European carrier on an E190 aircraft. No passenger had elected to pay the supplement to occupy an extra leg room seat at an emergency exit. The two cabin crew demonstrated safety features including the six emergency exits. The aircraft departed with no person in the exit rows and the blinds down on the side of the aircraft facing the sun. Should blinds have been raised for departure and should emergency exits be 'manned' albeit by passengers who are prepared to take the responsibility for operation of the exit if necessary. As it is no one was briefed in any way about use of the overwing exits.

[Chesty Morgan]

I fly the E195.

As these are "self-help" exits and if the check in staff have neglected to seat anybody in the emergency exit row (more often than not) we are required to move somebody able bodied in to it. The cabin crew are then required to brief these people on the operation of the exit. We require at least one person on each side of the emergency exit row but in an emergency the cabin crew will move other ABP's so the row is full.

The window blinds MUST be up for takeoff and landing.

[frontcheck]

It is not always the check-in agents fault that no-one is seated in exit row. More and more customers are encouraged to check themselves in either online or at self kiosk so you cant say it neglect on the agent's part, however where I work we have a procedure in place to check prior to boarding to enusre the row is occupied, if not we move prior to boarding.

[lexxity]

Read the part that says "no-one paid the supplement" to sit in said rows. Therefore it is down to the crew to move someone.

I check in a loco (as well as the same airline as frontcheck) with this policy, if no-one pays to sit there then the crew are to move an ABP into the seat. More often than not we will endevour to sit ABP directly behind or infront of these seats, this depends on what is available after online check in though.

[Chesty Morgan]

Well the bottom line is that the emergency exit rows must be occupied by an able bodied person.

That is generally achieved at check in. If nobody is allocated to the emergency exit row (for whatever reason and I wasn't having a dig at check in staff), by the time check in is closed then prior to boarding, the dispatcher is required to reseat somebody in that row.

I will conceed that passengers don't always sit where they should but the onus is on the ground staff to ensure the correct seating prior to boarding.

After boarding the cabin crew must ensure there is somebody in the emergency exit row. However, it is up to the dispatcher to ask the passenger(s) to move from their allocated seat. That's from our ground handling manual.

[Winch-control]

Just to be devils advocate (as I often pay to sit in these exit row seats) if no one will agree to move there, or, lets say for the sake of arguement it is a flight full of octagenarians that are not suitable to sit there; can the a/c take off legally?

I have been led to believe that two seats adjacent to each 'self served' emergency exit must be occupied?

[bjh123]

Thanks for the replies. What should one do if faced with such a situation? As SLF one doesn't want to antagonise CC, but I was unhappy about situation buit felt it would cause trouble if I moved myself.

[PAXboy]

OLD: Everyone wanted the exit row to get the little bit more leg room, despite the inconvenience of no overhead locker or floor storage space.
NEW: Carriers realise they can charge for this. Yippeeee, we're making more money.
SLF get wise that, in a recession, you can save money and just sit in a regular seat. :oh:
Some a/c on some routes may now be departing illegally. :eek:
Carriers must move pax into the seats for free to be legal. :ok:
When the recession is eventually over (several years yet) pax may baulk at then being charged for that which they had as free. Just like it was before. :rolleyes:I do love the laws of unintended consequences. :}

[lowcostdolly]

bjh123 my twopenneth as CC.....

The UK CAA (I'm not sure where bannfshire is?) require all self help exits to be manned by able bodied persons (ABP's) who are appropriately briefed.

Airlines vary in their interpretation of ABP's and what passes for an exit row briefing. They also vary in how many pax should be at these exits, some say one per exit others will say the rows should be full.

Suffice it to say that if you took off on a relatively full UK reg aircraft with no ABP's at the self help exits then IMHO you took off illegally in accordance with CAA regs. You should be contacting the company concerned with your concerns or the safety action group of the CAA direct.

No pax should be wary of flagging up a safety concern to the CC. These days we have something called CRM which ensures anything flagged up by a pax to the CC should go to the Captain. I doubt the Captain of your flight would have allowed take off if he knew the exit rows were not manned.

Please don't feel you would "antagonise" the CC by voicing a concern however trivial it may seem to you. If, as in this case, it seems major then you should definately speak up.

LCD :)

[ACL1011]

B737 from CDG to Manchester last summer with one overwing exit on each side. Both exit rows behind us was empty, so I asked the FA if we could switch as my husband is 6'5. She told us it would cost however many pounds. We said no thanks (one hour flight). Had I known that it was required for ABP to be in exit row, I would have quoted that. We'll try that next time, although since I usually avoid low-cost carriers like the plague, may not occur again.

[bjh123]

I sent details to the airline concerned (a national carrier) and received the following -

"Unfortunately we are currently unable to respond to your request within our regular handling time due to the number of passenger messages resulting from the eruption of mount Eyjafjallajökull and the decision of the authorities to close the European airspace for a number of days".

Not very reassuring - the aircraft and route referred to in another post - MAN/CDG may well refer to the same airline alliance. I suppose the next step should be to contact the national aviation authority - hopefully they will be more safety minded.

Banffshire is in the north of Scotland but the airline is not British.

[PAXboy]

StaceyFI had visions of the plane going down in sub-zero waters and the pair of us having to help screaming kids down the chutesNah - that's the easy bit. The kids are so light, you can chuck them straight out the door without touching sides. Just tell them it's the new Ice-Age ride at Disney ... :E

[Dubaian]

I've had check-in staff select me as a suitable candidate for an Exit seat on the basis that I was able-bodied, a frequent flyer (therefore at least very familiar with safety briefings if not the actual door operation), and travelling alone (therefore not likely to worry about a relative on the same plane). Seemed fairly sensible criteria.

On many aircraft, what you gain in legroom and apparent ease of going to the loo from an emergency exit seat has to be offset against your video screen and tray table coming out of the armrest and hampering movement. Or even worst these plug-in trays the CC give you at mealtimes.

Am I right in thinking that on-line checkin and seat preselection systems as a general rule block exit seats?

[VS-LHRCSA]

It might be an idea to check what the regulations are for specific aircraft types before accusing an airline of operating illegally. Different aircraft have different rules depending on configuration, density, design, etc.

I have operated the ATR 42 and due to weight and balance requirements, the self help exit at the forward was often left unoccupied as our passengers needed to be grouped together in the middle of the aircraft leaving the first few rows empty. We were never allowed to move the passengers, sometimes even after take off. Having also operated the E170, with the same weight and balance issues, it may well have been the case on this E190.

Although not having been there, I can't say for sure however you would think that if it was a requirement to have people sat at the exit, then the crew would have ensured their were briefed ABP sat there.

[bjh123]

I was not accusing any one of anything - I was merely applying what strikes me as a common sense supposition. If you have an emergency exit, as a layman I would have thought it sensible to have it manned, in the same way as those exits manned by CC. If the configuration or loading of an aircraft precludes the seating of some one adjacent to an emergency exit then as a fare paying passenger I would like to know, in order to make a reasoned decision, if not an 'expert' one, whether I wish to travel;.

[peuce]

When travelling on Air Asia, unless you have paid the extra, you don't get to sit in the exit rows, full stop ... which suits me, as I usually pay the extra.

Obviously there isn't a requirement for the seats to be filled ... in all parts of the world.

[kingston_toon]

I'm one of those people who will run across the tarmac to secure an exit row seat with easyJet and Ryanair as I'm tall. However, an increasing number of airlines charge for these seats, in which case, I don't bother. I too have been on a number of flights with no-one sitting in any of the exit row seats, and requesting a move has usually met with the response "only if you pay the fee". Wizz, in my experience, will usually let you sit there free if you are last on, but both my recent Jetstar Asia flights had all the overwing seats empty. In fact, even after take-off, they were making announcements that passengers could move there for a "nominal fee" (I don't consider 20SGD that nominal for a short flight!).

[bizdev]

What you gain in leg room at the exit row seats, you loose in comfort as these seats have no recline (recline is 'locked out' at the overwing exits). Mind you - on the LCCs the seats in the whole of the cabin have had recline removed to save on maintenance costs and weight (except some of their older models).

bizdev

[Load Toad]

Getting an exit row has gone from being something 'nice to baggsie' to something airlines and passengers have really gone and got their testicles tangled up into a knot over.

[Businesstraveller]

I got an overwing exit row seat on an A321-200 yesterday - plenty of legroom and recline without any charge. Problem came when it became clear a further two people had been assigned the same seat that I was already occupying. Problem sorted when the stewardess moved me into the business cabin instead - certainly no legroom, recline or width issues there...

[bjh123]

Thanks for all the interest. My point remains, however, as Low Cost Dolly remarked, the issue is safety and the manning of an emergency exit, not legroom or comfort - if there had been a requirement for an evacuation of the aircraft a. thee was no one at the exits and b. no one had been briefed.

[VS-LHRCSA]

I'm going to stick with my suggestion that if it was requirement on the day, then the cabin crew would have ensured that briefed ABPs were seated at the exits. There is an element of risk having passenger operated exits and the E190 already has four crew operated exits for 90 passengers over relatively short floor area. On a part load, given weight and balance issues, there is every chance that it would not have been necessary and possibly dangerous to have passengers sitting in that row.

To put this in perspective. Look at the rear cabin of the 747. Well over 100 pax, floor space far greater that the E190, 4 doors, 2 of them shared with another cabin and there has never been a requirement for mid cabin passenger operated exits.

[Right Way Up]

Two questions.

1) Can anyone quote the regulations that stipulate this?

2) If you only have one passenger booked on a flight does it have to be cancelled?

[VS-LHRCSA]

Back in my charter days, it was quite common to have single figure loads. I did once operate an L1011 with one passenger, so no, the flight does not have to be cancelled. In fact, with this airline, the passenger was seated at door one left, with a crew member at door one left and right. The remaining seven crew were seating immediately behind the passenger in the forward zone.

[GeorgeCluney]

Had the same discussion and a 20' delay as a result just a few days ago. Confusion came about as the FSO, FAM and TAB (ground staff policy direction) are written by three different authors, each with their own interpretation of the policy. The over-riding factor is that load control weight and balance supercedes the exit row requirement when the pax load is less than 50. Therefore, YES IT IS LEGAL to commit aviation with the exit rows vacant.

Not only do we require ABPs, yet each must agree to do so. Your kite may be (almost) full of ABPs, yet if they all say NO, even if encouraged so at no cost at the Service Desk or upon checkin, then we are obliged to operate with the exits bereft of ABPs.

Mobile (cell 'phone), online or kiosk checkin negates the acceptance of exit row seating. That's because the intended occupant needs to be sighted by checkin staff. If obese, on crutches or otherwise challenged, you will have to take a seat with a slightly shorter distance between your knee-cap and that of the back of the seat in front of you.

Funny request I heard once .. a pax in an exit row asking for an extension seatbelt.

[md 600 driver]

when does someone become a ABP my 16 year old 6 foot plus son was refused as the ryanair cc said it was over 18? other airlines are 16 did the ryanair cc get it wrong ?

[Adamm.]

Seems to be 18 with Ryanair.
However for the last row of seats (exit row) they seem to have a different policy. I was traveling back from Alicante when I went to sit in the last row of seats, I was asked for my passport and ticket as soon as I sat down and was told to move because I'm only 16. Soon after, boarding ran late and they stuck 3 young children in the row I went to sit in, and their parents in the row across from them. :=

The way I looked at it was... In an emergency is a 7 year old better than a 6ft 4" 16 year old who's currently building hours for his PPL?

[bjh123]

I finally got a response to my enquiry with the airline and was advised that in the event of it being necessary, people would be moved to exit row seats and briefed on procedures. I'd be interested to see how that works in the event of a crash on take off.

[Betty girl]

Overwing exit coverage is usually required on the airbus 320 and 319, at least one pax per row, however if the aircraft is not full and the spread of passengers is low particularily in the centre of the aircraft the SCCM can decide that it is not nessacary to move a passenger there. ie if it were obvious that passengers would all use the main exits.

Hope that helps and I am sure it varies between airline to airline and aircraft to aircraft though.