Question for SFI/SFE

[Capt MAC]

Hello!

As SFI/SFE ,during an engine failure at/after V1 ,where are you looking at? I mean for direction of the airplane.Do you teach your students to maintain rwy hdg or to fly rwy track? I was teached both and i don t know what to do.
There is no SID to follow on our sim sesion.Also on board of our A/C we have OPT,that small computer for performance and for take off calculation almost every time where there is no eng out proc it says Maintain rwy hdg. Please,any advise would be appreciated!

[bumpyflight]

I recomend teaching them how you werfe taughtwith both ways

[ImbracableCrunk]

I had this very discussion with a Boeing/Alteon instructor a few weeks ago. We didn't come up with much of an answer. He was evaluating us on our airlines standards, but he didn't necessarily agree that they were right.

I've flown at 3 airlines. 2 were Runway track. 1 was Runway heading.

I'm glad you asked.

(and ignore bumpytroll.)

[Right Way Up]

Capt Mac ,
In the UK rwy hdg means maintain runway track. I would also recommend considering track rather than heading as it is path relative to the ground & obstacles that performance will be based on.

Doc 24 - says engine failure - heading limits within 10 degrees so select heading to fly runway track & attempt to fly within 10 degrees of that heading.

[Capt MAC]

What are you saying is very strange,regarding UK with rwy hdg. This is from the first lessons of flying.Rwy hdg means no wind corections and there are many SID in the world which are saying Climb on rwy hdg or others Climb on rwy track.So,thanks,but i don t belive it with UK.

[DBate]

At my company we are tought to maintain runway track all the time during an engine out scenario, the reason being the definition of the EOSID in our company - and we have one for every single runway in our network:

An EOSID starts at the runway end, and considers all obstacles in an area of 3.000' (~0.5 NM) left and right of the extended runway centerline (actually it is just 300' left/right of centerline at the runway end, extending to 3.000' at ~4 NM from the runway end).

If you now had a rather strong crosswind or your tracking is not very precise, i.e. While flying runway heading in a crosswind condition you would leave that 'safe sector' rather soon (e.g. with a tracking error of 10 degrees you would leave the safe sector before reaching 3 NM past the runway end).

That is why we are always tought to maintain runway track.

Regards,
DBate

[LeadSled]

In the UK rwy hdg means maintain runway track --- After takeoff for ATC Clearance purposes.
RWU,

But not elsewhere, except for a few places that follow UK.

Have a look at what "runway heading" means in terms of engine out procedure design, what does the calculation of the obstacle clearance envelope assume, that should raise a few more questions.

Tootle pip!!

[Right Way Up]

Capt Mac,

You are quite right reference runway heading in the UK, it apparently was removed a few years back from the UK docs. "Continue runway heading" used to mean track the extended centreline. A fair few ATCOs still use it.