WA mining bosses' flight missing

[4Greens]

Check out this on yahoo.com.au

Surprised no mention anywhere else.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Sorry all,
No offence intended. I misread the original post and had no idea an aeroplane was missing.

Original post below.

Hoping for the best,

FRQ CB

Link? I've searched but - nothing.

Looking forward to a good tanty,

FRQ CB

[Trent 972]

WA mining bosses' flight missing - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/mp/7428455/wa-mining-bosses-flight-missing)

[compressor stall]

What were they doing all on the one aircraft?

[chode1984]

Assuming it wasn't going to crash at a guess. What was the aircraft type?

[Iron Bar]

What were they doing all on the one aircraft?

Compressor stall are you kidding? Are this crew heads of state or royalty?

Cost cutting is a bitch.


edit for foot in mouth:ugh:

[dgreer]

looks like main thread developing over here -> http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/418723-missing-aircraft-aussies-yaounde-mbalam.html

[sagan]

More detail in the African Aviation threads

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/418723-missing-aircraft-aussies-yaounde-mbalam.html

[neville_nobody]

Compressor stall are you kidding? You think this crew are heads of state or royalty?

No you will find that certain people are not allowed to fly together. Usually the chairman and the CEO don't.

[The Green Goblin]

I wonder if this will bite Rudd?

Due to the proposed 40% super profits tax the mining magnates were in Africa seeking a haven where their investment would be welcomed instead of taxed to oblivion.

Keven 'o seven, gone in ee-leven :E

[compressor stall]

Thank you neville_nobody.

Iron Bar - no they are not royalty but the entire board of directors (http://www.sundanceresources.com.au/our-people/board-of-directors.aspx) on a chartered flight in Africa on an African aircraft? This is a company of huge wealth and if I was a shareholder I would not want this to be the case for this (assumed) unfortunate eventuality.

I would even baulk at them all being on Talbot's personal jet together.

Green Goblin - I struggle to see the relevance - Sundance have been over there for quite some time, nothing to do with the super profits.

[gaunty]

Stallie mate,

Wise words indeed.

I cant imagine what they thought they were doing.

Not only putting ALL their eggs in one basket but betting the company on the skills and ability of a single pilot?

These guys are respected risk takers in the mining business but their duty of care and corporate governance is looking a bit tatty right now.

These sort of events can mortally wound these companies, for which the shareholders will not be happy.

[john_tullamarine]

Interestingly, though, having done a moderate amount of FIFO consultancy work in the past in regard to contracts, audits and the like, I noted that a significant minority of the mining folk with whom I came in contact had a somewhat cavalier attitude to FIFO safety considerations ... not so much reckless as ignorant .. and not all that interested in learning about the lower level detail which was the stuff likely to kill them or their employees.

Caveats -

(a) my experience was some years ago so the situation may have changed somewhat in the intervening period

(b) not all mining folk were afflicted - during one audit my group did I detected a very significant aircraft performance scheduling error which impacted the bulk of the flying program. When I briefed the commissioning mining executive by phone his response was along the lines of "forget the audit for the moment and go fix the problem"

[cirrus driver]

It was a CASA 212 but not sure if 100 or 200

[Iron Bar]

Compressor Stall, etal

Fair enough, I stand corrected. On reflection it does seem somewhat rash.

[The Green Goblin]

Green Goblin - I struggle to see the relevance - Sundance have been over there for quite some time, nothing to do with the super profits.

Tongue in cheek bud :}

Another senseless tragedy no doubt in a region where safety can be something that is sought rather than attained.

[Green gorilla]

BHP we used to seperate the bosses between two aircraft.

[john_tullamarine]

BHP we used to seperate the bosses between two aircraft.

.. that sounds like a sensible corporate risk management outcome.

[compressor stall]

Green goblin. I was just about to say that although I fell for your sarcsm, I reckoned someone in Canberra would draw the same conclusion. Then I see just reported that Wilson Tuckey has already.:mad:

if it was an hour long flight, what would the cost of an extra flight to split the load? 2 hours of (African) C212 time at say Usd$2000 an hour?

$4 grand ain't that much to pay for the short term future of the company.

Irrespective of the outcome of this search, I am sure that this event will have repercussions around the business world.

[woftam]

In my limited experience regarding such matters, entire Boards or key members of Organisations are banned/discouraged from flying together.
Let's hope for a happy outcome in this instance, however unlikely that may be.

[The Green Goblin]

Green goblin. I was just about to say that although I fell for your sarcsm, I reckoned someone in Canberra would draw the same conclusion. Then I see just reported that Wilson Tuckey has already.

Gold, I knew the old fart would be trying to connect the dots. God bless him :ok:

[Blueyonda]

I felt Kevin used a poor choice of words when he said:"We will leave no stone unturned"
Given the nature of the miners work.

[601]

we used to separate the bosses between two aircraft.

Been there done that - try chasing a Lear in a C550. At least we were not traffic for each other at our destinations.

[4Greens]

Plane now found, no survivors.

[GoGirl]

:uhoh:
The reason given for them all being on the same aircraft;

It was against company policy for the entire executive to travel on the same plane.

Mr Jones said the group had planned to use two aircraft for the trip, including Mr Talbot's personal plane, but the landing strip at their destination could not accommodate his aircraft.

"So the board obviously made the judgment in the circumstances (to use) the aircraft they had available," Mr Jones said.

"It was their judgment to go ahead with the flight."


The original article can be found here
Weeks until bodies extracted from Africa (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1074079/weeks-until-bodies-extracted-from-africa)


Sad

GG

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I'm with Stallie,

The flight dep at 11.45PM Local Time - according to Monday's 'West' and was due to land at dest at around 1AM.

The flight load could just as easily have been 'split' - obviously night flying was not an issue - and the aircraft done two, or even more if req'd, trips.

It was only a little over an hour's flight time...

Even back in the 'old days', with the client I was flying for, the business manager and the project manager never flew on the same aircraft - well not in my experience anyway.

Sad event.

[Neptunus Rex]

According to Aviation Safety Network the CASA operator was on the EU Blacklist.
Somebody didn't do their homework!

[john_tullamarine]

It was against company policy for the entire executive to travel on the same plane.
.........
"It was their judgment to go ahead with the flight."

One can only wonder what level of specialist aviation guidance the Board may have had available in coming to that unfortunate decision.

I suppose that this will be a wake up call regarding corporate risk management for Boards in various areas of endeavour ?

[frigatebird]

So was it a cost saving decision, a time saving decision, or a "it won't happen to us just this once" decision, group decision, or the boss's decision that they would all travel together on a strange aircraft with different crew to their own jet crew, to a remote strip? I take it they were all travelling together on the company jet to get to the departure point. Were the company's jet crew on the fatal flight too? Doesn't sound like it, so perhaps they can help the surviving company officials assess the reason if there was a breakdown in the stated company policy.

[gaunty]

It's clear PPruNe is not what it was, when probably THE most important issues regarding corporate governance and standards in regard to the biggest user (mining, oil and gas) of airline, and the aviation industry in the country since Lockhart River, Seaview and Monarch are relegated to GA Questions.

[Trojan1981]

Why? It is GA.

[frigatebird]

Interesting comments by onetrack in the African Aviation 'missing aircraft (with Aussies)' thread posts 16 and 19 regarding the early morning fog and the diversion on track to view sites. The only other thread discussing it that I can see. I am interested in 'why' the aircraft went down. The weather at the time, and if there were any mechanical problems. The aircraft is operated locally here, and if there is something to be learned, then I hope it comes out. The fact that the passengers (The Board) broke their own rules regarding all flying together is a matter for their company to sort out with the public and their shareholders. They were entreprenaurs used to taking calculated risks. Lloyds of London have done that for a long time now. But in the actual operation of the aircraft on this flight, and the crash cause, is there something that pilots can learn ?

[gaunty]

Trojan

That it is, but so were the gamechangers mentioned. There will be another added to this pantheon shortly, it happened well before the curent one which will be added to the list.

This is not about Billy the Kid in his 30,000 hour busted arse Chieftain, but then it is too.

To be brutally frank, it is possible, but not likely, that you will find the creme de la creme of experienced professional pilots in these parts. There is a thread running on this Forum somewhere alerting low hour pilots that there is work for them in an African country somewhere. No problems with that you have to get time somewhere, but at what cost to whom and under what conditions.

Problem is people have a problem telling the difference between big kids aviation as it is spoke and the rest.

The tragedy is, and there is no simple way for them to find out, they dont know what they dont know.:{

Appropriate supplemental lift was available from another country across the way, why wasn't it used.

There is never ever a good enough reason to break protocol.

Protocols are very hard won and rigourously and rationally derived, you break them at your mortal peril.

[compressor stall]

Take out the Africa bit - is it true that they all flew over in the one biz-jet to Youende?

[VH-XXX]

It would be easy to break protocol at the time.

You rock up to the airport, there's a half decent looking aircraft sitting there, the pilot is perhaps American or at least English speaking. The pilot isn't intending on dying that day and the aircraft did the trip many times before, so you certainly don't expect that YOU will die on the very next flight!

After all, aircraft fatal crashes always happen to "someone else..."

[frigatebird]

People travel together in groups all the time, but that is why the sensible managers would at least minimise the risk wherever possible for major institutions and national interest. Didn't our soccer team go to SA as a group? But the American President and his Vice-President wouldn't be on Air Force One at the same time. Just as well we never had a problem with our aircraft or crew when we were flying the Eye Surgery Team around the islands for their sight-saving clinics all those years ago, or the publicity and fallout would have been huge (for us then). Even the Pope and his entourage all came in on the same aircraft, though perhaps the most likely replacement wasn't on the aircraft with him at the time.

[VH-XXX]

The Pope is easy to replace, they'd have another identical looking old guy up and running in a couple of hours if required.

[Tankengine]

If the Pope died in a plane crash wouldn't that negate him altogether?:E

[VH-XXX]

Don't ask me, I'm a 7-Day Athiest.