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sarboy w****r
17th Jun 2010, 12:54
Can anyone fill in what this announcement will mean for SARH?

BBC News - Coalition government axes £2bn of projects (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10341015.stm)

Second last paragraph:

Search and Rescue Helicopters: £4.6bn (Successor Deterrent Extension to Concept Phase Long Lead Items will be reviewed as part of the broader Trident value for money review, which will report in the coming weeks. Search and Rescue Helicopters will be reviewed as a matter of urgency)

Low Flier
17th Jun 2010, 13:03
Heres' a preliminary list of the initial spending cuts being made by the Conservative government:

The full list of projects cancelled:

Stonehenge Visitor Centre: £25m

Local Authority Leader Boards: £16m

Sheffield Forgemasters International Limited: £80m

Rollout of the Future Jobs Fund: £290m

Six month offer recruitment subsidies: £30m

Extension of Young Person's Guarantee to 2011/12: £450m

Two year Jobseeker's Guarantee: £515m

Active Challenge Routes - Walk England: £2m

County Sports Partnerships : £6m

North Tees and Hartlepool hospital: £450m

Local Authority Business Growth Initiative: £50m

Outukumpu: £13m


List of projects suspended:

Libraries Modernisation Programme: £12m

Sheffield Retail Quarter: £12m

Kent Thameside Strategic Transport Programme: £23m

University Enterprise Capital Fund: £25m

Newton Scholarships: £25m

Health Research Support Initiative: £73m

Leeds Holt Park Well-being Centre: £50m

Birmingham Magistrates Court: £94m

Successor Deterrent Extension to Concept Phase Long Lead Items: £66m

Search and Rescue Helicopters: £4.6bn (Successor Deterrent Extension to Concept Phase Long Lead Items will be reviewed as part of the broader Trident value for money review, which will report in the coming weeks. Search and Rescue Helicopters will be reviewed as a matter of urgency)

A14 Road: £1.1bn

LFFC
17th Jun 2010, 14:23
Looks like the government has suspended a couple of military projects - they will be reviewed as a matter of urgency!

Here's some background:

UK SAR Helicopter Contract: Bidder Selected (http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/uk_sar_helicopter_contract_bidder_selected.html)

Treasury Anounces Result of Review of Pending Projects (http://richardwillisuk.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/treasury-announces-result-of-review-of-pending-projects/)

Pontius Navigator
17th Jun 2010, 14:37
Looking at the other thread and th elist of projects cancelled, I see "Outukumpu: £13m"

There is only one thing to be said:

"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"

VinRouge
17th Jun 2010, 14:40
Outokumpu - Stainless Steel - A wide range of products (http://www.outokumpu.com/)

Obviously sheffield didnt vote tory.

Their mistake.

Pontius Navigator
17th Jun 2010, 15:08
Outokumpu - Stainless Steel - A wide range of products (http://www.outokumpu.com/)

Obviously sheffield didnt vote tory.

Their mistake.

VR, they voted LibDem despite the bribes to Sheffield Forgemasters, £80m and Sheffield Retail Quarter (£12m) and Outo (£13m). No doubt they would have had a cut of the Local Authorities Business growth (£50m), libraries (£12m) etc etc.

At least the A14 did run through Sheffield.

the funky munky
17th Jun 2010, 15:50
What it will mean is that the mighty king will be shouldering the burden for the foreseeable future. Why not? The aircraft have bags of life left it just means our lords and masters have to pay for the upkeep.

aw ditor
17th Jun 2010, 16:56
PN

Today, part of the A14 runs through the western part of Pathfinder Country'. In 1997 when a certain Party' came to power the project (which was and remains a desperately needed improvement to the national road infrastructure) was stopped by the then Transport Minister. It was costed then at approximately £350 Million. Thirteen years later costs are now estimated at £1.3 Billion and it is likely to be scrubbed once more. Another delayed project (the carriers?) which has quadrupled the costs.

Apologies for thread creep, AD

pba_target
17th Jun 2010, 17:10
So, Sea King SAR til 2025 then?

Pontius Navigator
17th Jun 2010, 17:40
aw, quite. I live on the infamous M11 extension, infamous in the sense of on TB saying what has Lincolnshire ever done for me.

I guess the same for Norfolk.

VX275
17th Jun 2010, 20:45
Of course the Stonehenge Visitors centre wouldn't have had to have been thought about at all if the Commanding Officer of Stonehenge Airfield had been allowed to remove some 'stones' that he considered to be a hazard to his aviators back during WW1 :eek: He was though, given permission to paint them white. :\

althenick
17th Jun 2010, 23:08
If Sea King Stays then HMS Gannet Stays. Happy Days :ok:

Low Flier
17th Jun 2010, 23:21
Looking at the other thread and the list of projects cancelled, I see "Outukumpu: £13m"

There is only one thing to be said:

"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"


The mad axeman struck again.

The original post was not deemed to be politically correct, so the entire thread got axed.

Ho hum.

That is the way of the mad axemen who do not agree with dissenting views.

It's what they do, repeatedly.

Never mind.

green granite
18th Jun 2010, 07:01
Outokumpu is a project by Yorkshire Forward to develop the Outokumpu site at Shepcote Lane in Sheffield into an industrial park.

bobward
18th Jun 2010, 07:12
Hmm, with a certain Royal personage going through SAR training right now, is it any wonder they're keeping the big yellow birds for him to drive?

As for the A14 gettin binned, no problem. We in Norfolk have only just got used to having that new fangled tarmac stuff to drive our horses and carts on. To have even wider roads would have been a bit tooooo much for us to cope with.
:bored:
All together now: "Oive gotta bran noo combine aaarvester......"

barnstormer1968
18th Jun 2010, 08:00
Bobward.......

I am suspecting you may have used big roads before, and also have modern-ish communications, as you are quoting a song from my home area of Bristol:E

To further back up my suspicions, I have to say that when I last watched the Wurzels live in concert it was nowhere near where you live either:}

green granite
18th Jun 2010, 08:21
As for the A14 gettin binned, no problem.

Unfortunately it needs something doing about it as it spends most of the time blocked by accidents involving lorries, but a cheap solution would be to confine them to the inside lane for it's whole length instead of just at the M6 end.

bobward
18th Jun 2010, 11:09
At least it proves that we of Norfolk recognise talent and culture....
....and how we got from SAR to that is a real bit of thread creep!

dctyke
18th Jun 2010, 12:02
Quote:

Hmm, with a certain Royal personage going through SAR training right now, is it any wonder they're keeping the big yellow birds for him to drive?


Not right now............. the world cups on ;)

Could be the last?
18th Jun 2010, 14:54
A14 is empty between 2359 and 0600, just get the heavies to travel then.......

aw ditor
18th Jun 2010, 15:00
CBTL'
Truck movements depend on the state of the tide at Felixstowe for the big big container ships!

Pontius Navigator
18th Jun 2010, 19:13
CBTL'
Truck movements depend on the state of the tide at Felixstowe for the big big container ships!

Non sequitur.

Containers to or from the big big container ships will be delivered to or collected from the container port and not delivereddirect to the ship. They can be delivered to the port at any time with even perishable cargoes being preserved in special ISO.

The trucks will as likely be heading for the ferries and thus less dependent on tides but rigidly bound to their tachographs and the ferry timetable.

RileyDove
18th Jun 2010, 20:42
The container lorries are leaving Felixstowe so they can arrive ,unload and return back in daylight hours! There is little point in arriving at your destination in the middle of the night if there is nobody there to unload you .

Could be the last?
19th Jun 2010, 10:10
So what's wrong with working a nightshift then..........? Makes perfect sense to push the heavies outside of normal commuting times, and save a fortune on having to widen the road, plus improve the road safety. It is no different to the railways, 70% of all freight is moved between 2359 - 0600.:ok:

And with the money the Govt saves, it could be redirected to buy new airframes for the SAR Force (and potentially SH) (RN/RAF) and not have to shell out again for another PFI that fails to deliver!

And the airframe could be the new 'future rotorcraft'! However, no more CH47s please!

Clever Richard
19th Jun 2010, 12:23
Could be the last,

Well done, a masterclass in getting the thread back onto its original subject in a seamless manner.:D

Regards,

CD

Diablo Rouge
19th Jun 2010, 16:29
What are the odds of a Merlin Force with blades that do not fold re-equipping UK RAF/RN SAR across the board. Whilst flogging off/scrapping the Sea Queens and buying more CH47 with "Joint" crews?

It is about time "Joint" helicopter force really was amalgamated or the idea knocked on the head. I had cause the visit a JHC ground support unit with RAF/Army staffing and it was quite clear that "Joint" is spelt with an "A"; there was no compromise of rules and regulations and the Army ones were positively anal. The RN have equivelent sections/sqns yet maintain geographic distance as an autonomous unit. There are pennies to be saved with jointery, but it is not happening.

minigundiplomat
19th Jun 2010, 16:47
After 10 years, is closer amalgamation going to work?

Answers on a postcard marked 'BOHICA' to Andover.

Tallsar
19th Jun 2010, 17:58
Hi DR - about 10 years ago following the last SDR there was an option running to do precisely that - move the MK3 Merlins to the RAF SAR force and buy new SH (probably more CH47) in due course. Sadly (IMO) it was decided that it was more sensible to PFI the SARF replacement so the Merlin transfer option died. Who knows, but maybe if the PFI is scrapped, such a SAR Merlin option could return when we can afford it? Mmmm:\
As for SH Merlins in the CHF - there is a good case for this in terms of a sensibly sized platform to fly optimum Commando Brigade trooping and resupply loads and operational and logistic commonality with the ASW (and in due course ASAC) version to be used afloat as fully marinised platforms that can be stowed properly aboard RN vessels various. The study into marinising the CH47 rejected this option as unaffordable (if not with a soupcon of a technical risk!), thus that option was dismissed - hence reinforcing the marinised SH Merlin case alongside temporary CH47 Task Force enhancements when the op scale requires it.

Bismark
19th Jun 2010, 19:54
I know it is thread creep but the best way to make savings in JHC is to bin JHC/amalgamate it into either Fleet or Air Cmd with a small embassy in PJHQ ie get rid of most of the staff. For the RN and the Army JHC represented a very large increase in staff costs due to ratios of post allocation (of course it meant a large reduction for the RAF!). Further down the food chain (ie in the op area) there are few savings to be made through amalgamation.

Could be the last?
19th Jun 2010, 21:24
I thought that the marinization of the current Mk3/3A is cost prohibitive and, therefore, the RN was getting what they were given.

Surely, with the various political agendas being fought with the US and doubt on whether or not RW Air Force 1 would be given to the Merlin, surely now is the time to revisit various contracts and enhance the capability of the Merlin Force and expand it into the SAR role.

This would fit into various Mil agendas such as:

Minimal ac types.
Rotation of crews through the SARF back to JHC and vice versa.
Further work for UK industry, albeit AW!
Reduced OCU requirements.

You could be even be more radical and have a Joint Helicopter Command, which included the SARF and CHF.........!:ok:

Poacher On The Turn
20th Jun 2010, 07:28
CBTL?

As radical as it may seem, I think you'll find that CHF are already and always have been part of the Jolly Happy Club. Do you perhaps mean to refer to the FLEET aircraft?

Could be the last?
20th Jun 2010, 09:26
My understanding is that CHF can move in and out of JHC C2 as Fleet sees fit. But I could be wrong.......

Tallsar
20th Jun 2010, 12:17
CBL - you are correct re the present Mk3/3A fleet - but as I see it that is just the start....once in positon it will not be long before the case is made for the appropriate engine/performance and marinisation upgrades to be done to achieve the commonality required. That said it may in fact have to wait for cash for brand new airframes as I believe it may not be cost effective to upgrade the present Merlins against buying new....but then maybe that was just an AWL marketing stance! Any such plan may take time of course in the present circumstances, but it is a long term plot that fits neatly, and then allows the RAF to do likewise with a long term CH47 upgrade/fleet management plot.

I share your views/points re a wider Merlin plot - but it would still need the radical rethink (and other extra cash reallocated from other cancelled programmes) if it were to happen ---so sadly maybe not :sad:

Bluntnotsharp
20th Jun 2010, 13:47
If memory serves the Mk3a was converted from the DMRH which was purchased by Denmark for a joint SAR/Trooping role.

Green Flash
21st Jun 2010, 20:43
Blunt

That was my understanding too. We have, in effect, SAR Merlins amongst us allready. Did they get rid of both winches?:rolleyes: