Parents banned from flying their child into schooldance

[chopper2004]

Ban on school dance helicopter drop - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100616/tuk-ban-on-school-dance-helicopter-drop-6323e80.html)

A parent was banned from flying a child to an end-of-term primary school dance in a helicopter, it was revealed.

The local authority rejected the request made earlier this week on health and safety grounds.

The parent wanted to fly the 11-year-old to the ceilidh at Mearns Primary School in upmarket Glasgow suburb Newton Mearns.

A spokesman for East Renfrewshire Council said: "A parent approached us looking to land a helicopter in the school grounds but we refused that request because the school would have needed to spend time cordoning off areas to keep children safe.

"Their time is better spent teaching the children. If there was an educational benefit for the school, we would be happy to look seriously at this. But there was no benefit.

"East Renfrewshire Council prides itself on its health and safety record and we have this event to celebrate the seven years that these children have spent with us in primary education and give them a big send-off. For some, it is their first formal dance."

A spokeswoman for the charity One Parent Families Scotland said: "The cost of end-of-term parties can put pressure on parents. Schools need to be sensitive to the financial circumstances of all parents.

"It's about having inclusive policies and the mechanisms for helping those who are in limited incomes so their children don't miss out.

"Children, being children, want to be part of the group."

The charity runs a freephone helpline for single parents in Scotland.

[s1lverback]

:} Bit OTT for a primary school formal...

I live 5 mins walk from the primary school in our village and have a landing site less than 100m away from the school in a mates paddock - which I use for pickup/dropoff when we are off somewhere North of the Thames (to save the family travelling with me to Redhill to get the chopper).

Now if they were off to some country manor for college/graduation formal then I would likely do it for my kids, but as my eldest is only 7 this year, I have at last 12 years before she leaves college. ;)

[kevin_mayes]

Hmmm, I flew my son, (then 14) to his end of term prom in Whitby in the 47, no problem from the school at all... All the kids enjoyed looking over the machine my wife acted as ground crew. Made the local paper!
Kev.

[John R81]

Yet another example of silly "kill-joy" rules.

See Eurocopter EC120B Colibri, G-FEDA, Owner John Henshall. Flight operated by EGB (Helicopters) Ltd (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1172192/) - it is possible to do this without killing an entire classroom of children.

Come the revolution, H&S should be first against the wall for the firing squad.

[FH1100 Pilot]

Hmmm, I flew my son, (then 14) to his end of term prom in Whitby in the 47

Pity he couldn't find a date to go to the prom with him. Future helicopter pilot, eh?

[C.C.C.]

"But we refused that request because the school would have had to spend time cordoning off areas to keep the children safe.
"Their time is better spent teaching the children."
Quick look at the School's website The School Building (http://www.ea.e-renfrew.sch.uk/mearns/Documents/Building/school_building.htm) and Google Maps Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=55.768408,-4.344272&spn=0.001503,0.003385&t=h&z=18) shows a full length football pitch which has floodlights and a surrounding fence. Janitor must hold keys for the fence entrance gate, and thus be able to keep the chidren safe whilst the teachers teach the children.

However if you read the news article further the real reason is in there - BBC News - Ban on helicopter arrival at primary school prom (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/10329253.stm)"Schools need to be sensitive to the financial circumstances of all parents.
"It's about having inclusive policies and the mechanisms for helping those who are in limited incomes so their children don't miss out.
"Children, being children, want to be part of the group."

Thus if the parent had arranged for all the children to be flown in by helicopter there is a suitable & safe landing site.

[firebird_uk]

Maybe there will be a silver linning to the county's financial doldrums.

Perhaps we will discover that we can live long and satisfying lives without a H&S do gooder looking over our shoulders every day.

It's a shame the CAA are (potentially) imune from public funding cuts or we might see an improvement in their service as they fight for their jobs. They'll price themselves out of jobs soon anyway.......

And perhaps public enquiries won't be able to fund lawyers soon too!

[Rant Mode Off]

[Hell Man]

You Brits didn't notice that by 2004 Eric Blair's prophetic novel "1984" had all but been realised across most of Europe?

I understand its now illegal for British Army pilot's to wolf whistle or complient a young lass and that you need local council permission for 'interior redesign' of your houses!

Expect it to get worse as time goes by - being different, standing out from the crowd and expressing yourself ... the sins of the future!

The Britain of the 1940's would never have accepted this cr*ap but after victory ... apathy and a weakened culture - the US is no better.

Let the rebels arise !!!

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

Helicopter not allowed ????

Bet there happy with a bright pink streeeeeeeched chav limo instead. :ok:

[kevin_mayes]

FH1100
Yeah he went there single, but came back with a girlfriend (didn't last - as they are too expensive)
I think the bit about the "parents on lower incomes" bit sort of sums up the whole of the UK government's attitude... Tax the rich to bring them down to the same level as the poor, instead of allowing the poor to do well and become the rich...
Maybe if some of the kids at the school saw the kid in the helicopter, they might just say "I want that too" and strive hard in future life?
Kev.

[MartinCh]

So, according to that school policy/opinion/bias/weird thinking/uberPC crap, all those flights, be it in helicopters, planes or whatever means, are pure non-sense as many of those events/activities are for disadvantaged, sick children.
But someone wishing to create everlasting memory of an important even for their OWN kids?

:ugh:

Sure, it may sound a bit snobby, but why not? Even R22 or R44 would look good in the eyes of kids, and that's rotary Fiat Uno, and not expensive twin, so not exactly elitist.

[s1lverback]

I think the youngsters would have enjoyed a look over the machine and the exhibition of arrival by chopper...something for some to aspire to.

The issue, as has been highlighted, is that it potentailly highlights a 'class/wealth divide' that the school is uncomfortable with.:bored:

Ask the same school if the Fleet Air Arm 'Black Cats' could send a Lynx to do a little show and then give the kids a talk on careers in the Navy...sure the answer would be yes!

Back in 1989 the RN Sharks brought a Gazelle to my college...I wanted to fly planes, but that (after Airwolf ofcourse) sparked my interest in choppers.:ok:

[stringfellow]

today the fsa bit the dust. lets all hope and pray the hse are next.
in one flash of inspiration tomorrows pilot could have been moulded. but no, the machine will remain in the hangar.

what a shame.

[John R81]

Teacher from local school (lives close by) has asked that I bring a helicopter in at the end of term to show the kids! Seems I could save myself time & money by quoting H&S at them.

Private school, though, so more concerned with showing kids what they can do if the work hard. That bit has gone out of fashion in State education. I think it's a good idea and I am going to do it.

(Myself - born on a council estate in Liverpool, State education)

[Need money]

"Kevin_Mayes:
I think the bit about the "parents on lower incomes" bit sort of sums up the whole of the UK government's attitude... Tax the rich to bring them down to the same level as the poor, instead of allowing the poor to do well and become the rich...
Maybe if some of the kids at the school saw the kid in the helicopter, they might just say "I want that too" and strive hard in future life?
Kev. "

I think that sums up an awful lot - well put !
:D

[RotaryPilotUK]

Interesting discussion going on here ...

Banned from arriving at primary school prom in a helicopter. - General Discussion - Digital Spy Forums (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1278289)

[JTobias]

Gets on my nerves

They should have just asked the headmaster.
I'm flying a friends son and pals into his prom next Thursday.
we asked the headmaster, obtained written permission, I've given my safety instructions and thats it.

I've now just read some of the posts on the other link. Now that REALLY gets on my nerves. Arrrrrggggghhhhh!

Joel

[SWBKCB]

Anybody actually read the story?

The bit about cost comes from "A spokeswoman for the charity One Parent Families Scotland", not the local council/school - I also think the comment is intended as a general one about the increasing number of these 'prom' type events ("rant mode on" another example of cultural colonisation from our cousins across the water - like Halloween..."rant mode off") and not this specific case of using a helicopter.

[Tarman]

"One Parent Families Scotland". Who gives these people the opportunity to either make comment or have a casting vote in something like this ? (I have a fair guess who funds them/ pays their benefits though). The UK has turned into a nation were the minorities decide what the majority does and if you dare to question it you are one of the following :
1. Racist 2 Sexist 3 Homophobic 4 Ageist 5 Fat Cat etc etc etc.

I know the location of this school and Stevie Wonder could land a Chinook there without hitting anything !

Maybe if the helicopter was painted in day-glow pink with blacked out windows and loud music then "One Parent Families Scotland" might approve.

Give me strength !

Tarman

[212man]

tarman,
I think SWBKCB had the right interpretation on this - the comments from that particular organisation were aimed at the increase in school 'proms' etc and the financial burden that puts on some - which is what this event was - not helicopters. The helicopter comments came from the council.

I take it that when you refer to single parent families, you are only referring to the 'scummy' type ones? Not the Afghanistan widows, wives whose husbands have left them or widowers whose wives died of breast cancer when their kids were young? Oh, good - thought so:ugh:

[Garfs]

I landed a jet Ranger in a school (In Aus) just 2-3 days ago.

The year 8 kids then received a talk on helicopters and each child had their picture taken in the front seat. The looks on their faces was gold. Wasn't that hard.

The UK is OTT on health on safety as far as I remember in my years working there.

[Horror box]

Ask the same school if the Fleet Air Arm 'Black Cats' could send a Lynx to do a little show and then give the kids a talk on careers in the Navy...sure the answer would be yes!

Not quite the same I am afraid. Apart from anything else the task of a Lynx arriving at a school will have multiple layers of supervision, authorisation and safety built in as well as redundancy and back up plans. I don't think the arrival of a robbo at a prom has anything to do with someone wanting to inspire children.
That being said - I agree that there is probably nothing inherently unsafe about someone turning up in an R22 as long as it is properly assessed and the is no undue pressure to get it done in the event of weather or serviceability issues, and I can understand how it would be a bit of a laugh for the kids. I think it is the fact that it is basically a bit of upping the "my cars better than yours" or "my toys are better than yours" factor that some may find a little distasteful, and seems so prominent in society today. Maybe at a time other than a prom would be more benefit. It is certainly not the attitude I would want to instill in my children - but that is just me and to be honest there are bigger things to worry about!:ugh:

[Tarman]

"I take it that when you refer to single parent families, you are only referring to the 'scummy' type ones? Not the Afghanistan widows, wives whose husbands have left them or widowers whose wives died of breast cancer when their kids were young? Oh, good - thought so"
212 man, I didn't refer to any one parent families, widows or otherwise. I simply wondered why a single parent group had their opinion heard when others didn't.
Maybe if you would read things properly instead of making snide comments you might not come across as such a sanctimonious arse.

[SWBKCB]

Tarman - I would imagine they expressed their opinion (not used their casting vote) because they were asked and were making a point on the wider issue of school proms (for 11 year olds!) - I don't know as I'm nowt to do with the organisation but that's how it reads to me.

As a single parent (wife died leaving me with two boys under ten) I did take offense at your comments, but glad to see you've now put down you Daily Mail and at least tried to backtrack.

[Tarman]

I was not having a go at single parents, I have no axe to grind with them, and in fact my sister is one. (Her husband died)
What I was trying to get across was the fact that, in the UK, minority groups regularly have their opinions taken into account over the majority. My point was that anyone who speaks up gets slaughtered for doing so and 212 man's post seems to back that up.
I did not mean to cause offence to single parents and I apologise if I upset you in any way, but I will not accept snide comments (from 212man) as being a fair response in a debate.

Tarman

[nigelh]

I think the school have taken a sensible stance on this one . I myself would not allow a Robinson R22 to come into the school as it could traumatise the poor children . I think you should let kids grow up believing they will own something like a Jet ranger or a 350 . Why ruin this with putting the possibility of owning a 22 into their little heads . That would be just CRUEL.

[22clipper]

At the risk of upsetting Nigel, I flew an R22 to a school once. All these 8 year olds gave it a good once over & one little girl asked me what the tiny hole in the exhaust was for. So I got down on my hands & knees & sure enough there was this tiny 2mm diameter hole drilled into the underside of the exhaust manifold. I had no bloody idea!
When I got back I asked the LAME about it. His first question was since when had my DIs got so thorough? Next we checked the other R22s in his hangar, they all had the same small hole. Finally we decided it must be there to prevent condensation forming after shut down.
So I learned sumfin 'bout my chopper from an eight year old. Whats' that line about 'out of the mouths of babes'?

[OvertHawk]

If i was running that event (on my own time as it's after hours) and i had a million and one things to organise for a bunch of screaming kids - and someone asked me if they could add a helicopter to the equation i'd probably say no too. It's a party for flaming ten year olds not the poxy oscars!

The man's comments about it "not being of educational value" to the rest of the kids are a perfectly valid reason for declining permission - The article i read made little or no mention of H&S although i confess that i only read the BBC article.


Yes there is an H&S culture here that is not good - there's also a culture of "I've not got my way so i'm going to really whinge and stir it up"

Ahhh well.

[Hell Man]

NigelH ... Priceless Bro! :ok:

[ShyTorque]

We never had a car when I was a kid, insufficient family income and too many mouths to feed for that. I never thought it was wrong for other folks to drive their kids to school, nor did I feel jealous or upset by it. :rolleyes:

Are they banning stretch limos too?

[alexlaw]

If people are so concerned about feeling left out surely the grand nature of a "Prom" for a bunch of relatively young children should be taken in to consideration? I naively thought they were the domain of 16-18 year old's leaving school!! Though that age was all about school plays, disco etc, was in my day! ( getting old!!!)

By the very nature that the event the school consents to there will be a distinct possibility of children turning up in 70k 4x4's performance cars Limo's etc so why not a helicopter?

As for not being of benifit to the rest of the children and making some feel left out..........

Why not ask the pilot to give a basic talk on how the machine works, what makes it fly? They cover Newtons laws very nicely !! That then could be applied to a lesson or two in the class room...I bet it would increase the concentration of alot of the pupils and the speed in which they learn with the excitement from seeing the machine

Could also have there pic's taken next to the heli and have a sit in the machine as well etc.... everyone could be involved and have a good and educational time, turning the event into a positive experience for everyone present.


http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/forum/statusicon/user_offline.png

[Garfs]

Why not ask the pilot to give a basic talk on how the machine works, what makes it fly?

Could also have there pic's taken next to the heli and have a sit in the machine as well etc.... everyone could be involved and have a good and educational time, turning the event into a positive experience for everyone present.

Thats exactly what we did earlier this week, with a Jet Ranger. The kids loved it.

[alexlaw]

:ok:......... Good man

[topendtorque]

By the very nature that the event the school consents to there will be a distinct possibility of children turning up in 70k 4x4's performance cars Limo's etc so why not a helicopter?

Seen that and worse, dads and boyfriends impressing all and sundry with their corvette, smoking tryes etc as they drop of their drod dead gorgous nubiles, and the other side of the coin;
acting as cover agent for a bunch of bubbling estrogen producing femme fatales coupled with their as yet gangly, disjointed and uncontrolled emerging testosterone producers.

The efforts of scholastic impression should be applauded, with machines being presented to impress and perhaps co-erce more into our discipline, but there is a time and place and school proms, with respect, is not that time. euphoria of the event and all that stuff.

But when competing for research dollars, or kids careers it is very competitive world, we can be positive.

The military often do displays, and we see those same types of demonstrations in agricultural shows of farm animals, explaining where milk comes from, all that sort of thing, to educate kids against the horrors that the World Wildlife Fund would have them believe.

So, we should by way of organisations such as, 'the guild' for example organise expos into the young school age, perhaps over two ages; one at primary school, the other at secondary college, to engender interest in our trade.

May i say though that instead of just showing a flying machine and a "pilot" and the questionable "glamour", why not do three other things.

1. some of the success stories of the industry, such as Frank Robinson, Igor, two good examples and others, how to have a dream and follow it through with determination.

2. some of the basic and very simple physics of it all, the blades are the same on the tops as the bottom, WHY? how importanty it is if you wish to be in the flying industry to stream your subjects to handle those topics. gas pressures, triangulation, fomula of lift, etc

3. Most importantly our industry is desperatley short of engineers, take your local gingerbeer along with a couple of spanners, a cylinder and turbine wheel say, magneto, fuel pumps, swash plate, balancing strobex machine, let them see the workings of it and how easy they are to fix.

Just a couple of ideas as I was busting around amongst the trees today.

cheers tet

[nigelh]

Cor Blimey Tet ..that was boring :bored: If you havent got any smart arse comments about R 22,s just go and find another site to post on :ugh:
I personally think 2 helis should turn up ....one beautiful new B2 350 and one R22 and tell the kids they will be in the toy one when they grow up if they dont do their homework :ok:

[jcjeant]

Hi,

Originally Posted by BBC News
"Schools need to be sensitive to the financial circumstances of all parents.
"It's about having inclusive policies and the mechanisms for helping those who are in limited incomes so their children don't miss out.
"Children, being children, want to be part of the group."


Just a question for the UK natives ....
It is forbidden in England to a mom drive son to public school in her Rolls Royce Cornish ? :)

[Pilot DAR]

Allow me to be the devil's advocate here, and probably offend most of you...

Are they banning stretch limos too?

Sounds appropriate to me!

Should this not be an event about the kids, and their common school experience? Will it contribute to the sense of comradery to arrive by helicopter, Rolls Royce, or in an expensive fur? No! It just distances some kids from the others. How is that a good thing, at an event intended to celebrate being a part of a group?

Sure, takng the helicopter to the school, on "helicoter at the school today" day, is a great idea. The helicopter should be the center of attention then, but not at the prom! That's where the kids and their pride in their personal appearance should be the center of attention. Wash the VW or Ford, and take them in that!

I hold the opinion that the school officials probably strugged to express this sentiment, and just missed the mark a bit, while trying their best to not offend anyone. Give them a break! It is their job to look after the growth and developement of these kids the bet way they know. We don't need to confuse this effort with helicopters at social events do we?

Now... Where do I go to rant about Rolls Royces, stretch limos, and fur coats at proms?

[Hell Man]

PD- (And what does the DAR stand for?)

You're comment is pretty sensible bro! Always the Cannie's!

Was gonna say (but then you said it yourself) that if these school dude's really felt that way then they should have expressed exactly these comments to the parents in the way you put it. To hide behind H&S etc. is just typically weak and Burnsish (as in Mr Burns from the Simpsons) of the 'new' (weakened since WWII) British culture!

Now where can I go to rant about a nation who managed a quarter of the globe but has opened her legs to the EU to be governed in every matter from no longer being allowed to sell in lbs weight to what you should say in public!

[Hughes500]

The whole of this subject just about sums this country up. The sooner people realise that life is not fair the better. Lots in this country believe they are owed something, quite frankly that is why we are going down the tubes. When I see families on income support " earning " more than I do (I quite often have to work 60 plus hour weeks) it makes my blood boil. So frigging what if someone wants to fly a heli into a prom. I have done it loads of times and the kids think it is great. So most of you stop whingeing about it. Nigel, I think your post sums it up rather well. For those of you concerned about Health and safety, I suppose you are the same people stopping conker fights in the playground.:ugh:

[topendtorque]

No Nigel, I gave up having smart a### comments about R22s about 10K hours ago before I saddled one, we knew all about them of course. ha ha.

Now that I do know a bit about them I have had plenty of unprintable things to say about them.

But the damn things have only put me down seriously three times in those hours, bloody lot different from the other life. An' if the engine coughs it doesn't cost me 400 big ones like yours.

But by gees, you mob over there in ol'blighty are rather sensitive about your school proms, how far away from them are you??:{

Me I used to ride a horse to school, I was lucky I reckoned, others walked or pushed a bike about. several kids families only had horse and cart instead of broken down motor car like us.

cheers now tet.:ok:

[extreme 500]

The Helicopter however glamourised or dramatised is a form of transport that should be used within the legal licence holders privellages, or are we now to name and shame Helicopter Charter services in the throw as well as school proms?

Britains absurd endeavour to celebrate mediocrity at any corner of the land, is the reason we tax those who have done well to improve the lifes of those who havn't.
Personally I would change the childs school, I certainly wouldnt want that kind of influence on my children.

Children should be inspired and encouraged to do well, not lounge around at home like their naysaying parents realising its actually an easier life bitching and complaining and claiming benefits.

Helicopters are one tool in the garden shed that excites, inspires and promotes doing well in life to be able to get to that career.

I'm going to start campaigning against pikey POS cars in Schools!!! Talk about depressing the children for the future not to mention polluting health and safety risks!!! ha ha ha

[Whirlygig]

The sooner people realise that life is not fair the better.Exactly.

Is it fair that the helicopter has been refused permission to land at the school for a school disco? No. Life's not fair - even helicopter pilots have to get over that!!

Cheers

Whirls

[nigelh]

TET Good point about the engine ....thanks for reminding me :{ I now have a trusty old Allison strapped to me which is quite comforting when you have been strapped to a demanding and v expensive old French tart . ( Turbomeca )

[Heli-Ice]

ironchefflay

A helicopter with a toilet. That would rid me of my diapers then...?

What an interesting situation it would be when the pilot get the runs in such a helicopter and he is operating single pilot??? :cool: