Skyways of London Hermes

[RAF kid]

Hi,

I'm looking for any information regarding routes, destinations (inc. stop overs), flight sector times, etc for "Trooping Flights" in the late fifties to the Far East in particular Skyways of London Hermes flights.
Are there any ex-Skyways/Airworks crew members or staff around who could possibly assist?
Or can anyone point me in the right direction for any further information including websites, books, DVD's, etc please?

Thanks.

[happybiker]

RAF Kid, you may want to take a look at "Britain's Airlines Volume two 1951-1964" by Guy Halford MacLeod. ISBN 978-0-7524-4276-1.

I recall there are a number of snippets relating to Skyways and the trooping contracts as well as a wealth of information regarding the development of civil aviation in this fascinating period after the war.

[PaperTiger]

Or "British Independent Airlines 1946-1976" from TAHS (no ISBN number):
BRITISH INDEPENDENT AIRLINES (http://www.tahs.com/bia%2046-76.htm) . Several pages on Skyways.

[norwich]

RAF kid. Nice subject, my favourite airline Skyways of London ! Sorry i can't help with the routes and timings you are looking for .... but can post a couple of photos collected from 'somewhere' over the years ?
And would also reccomend 'British Independant Airlines since 1946' by A.C. (tony) Merton Jones. volume 4. ISBN 0 902420 10 0, which has four pages of info about Skyways and several photos.

Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/ldy.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/ldh.jpg

[Sir George Cayley]

I was right, wasn't I? :ok:

SGC

[RAF kid]

You were indeed. Thanks for the tip.

[Double Zero]

RAF Kid,

I might have some photo's of interest to you, if 'Skyways of London' also used Dunsfold, Surrey - possibly maintenance base, and during the Berlin Airlift ? ( to become Hawkers' final assembly & test site ).

A serious pain to post here, as my PC and the systems don't agree but if you e-mail me I'll happily send them on.

[RAF kid]

Many thanks Double Zero. Yes I would love to see them. I have sent you my email address.

[SKYBYWAYS]

Hi! Just completed a book covering Lancashire Aircraft Corporation and Skyways of London including quite a bit of Rapide, Halifax, York Hermes and Connie info. What do you wish to know? Chers SKYBYWAYS:ok:

[RAF kid]

SKYBYWAYS,

Thanks for your reply.

As a nipper in early April 1959 I flew to Singapore on a Skyways Hermes trooping flight. We were routed via Brindisi, Ankara, Bahrain, Karachi (overnight), Delhi & Calcutta. We were also due in Bangkok but allegedly the stewardesses were a little tipsy so the stop was aborted and we flew onto Singapore!

Basically what I'm looking for is any information regarding sector timings, reasons for particular routings and stops, length of stops, overnight halts, food & refreshments, crewing, etc. Also any information regarding areas of avoidance - physical (Alps?) and political (Syria?) would be very useful.

Obviously I doubt very much if anyone remembers our particular flight so any general information regarding Skyways or other trooping flights during this period would be gratefully received. What is your book called? Where can we get a copy?

Thanks.

[SKYBYWAYS]

Hi again! If you are able to quote few dates I could possiby find more information from my collection of Operations Logs retained from those days. In the light of your interest I'll also have a quick look through my book and see if there's anything that may inerest you. Certainly got references to to routes, times, crews and slips etc. Cheers for now SKYBYWAYS:ok:

[RAF kid]

Hi SKYBYWAYS,

The only definite dates I have are:

Departure Stansted: 3 April 1959 (1844 hrs) - Capt Gingles

Arrival Singapore: 6 April 1959 (AM)

I estimate we would have been at Karachi 4-5 April 1959.

Many thanks.

[merlinxx]

The last one we had was the BUA Cabin Trainer along side the A23 outside the BUA HQ.

[norwich]

RAF kid and merlinxx. The former Gatwick (A23) cabin trainer is still with us it is at Duxford, painted in BOAC colours, and a little dusty when this photo was taken in Dec 07 .....
You can still see and touch a Hermes.

SKYBYWAYS. Wow your book sounds like a 'gotta have ' for me !

Keith Newsome.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/duxford/101207040.jpg

[SKYBYWAYS]

Good morning RAF Kid - I may be making a mess of this message lark - haven't done much of it! Thing is I think I have sent you the following. Just incase I haven't I'll send it again.
Some answers to your questions:
03APR59 03/1844 (all times G) GALDL dep Stansted Capt Paddy Gingles :ok:SKY 105/905
04/0049 arr Brindisi dep 04/0200: 04/0603 arr Ankara dep 04/0722 Capt Tony Leaning:04/1401 arrr Baghdad dep 04/1547: 04/2030 arr Karachi dep
05/1256: 05/1607 arr Delhi: 05/2132 arr Calcutta dep 05/2240 Capt Freddie Marvell: 06/0724 arr Singapore. There were certain terrain problems on the Ankara sector largely due to use of 100 oct fuel
at AM request and consequent de-rating of engines.
With regard to book I don't yet have a publisher I have had a couple of copies bound and could well have others produced in the same way but for the fact that I couldn't afford to sell tem at less than £45 per copy.
If you would like to know more, send me your email and I could transmit copies of the content pages. Hope the above is of interest. Paddy Gingles had quite a war and wound up with 617 - thoroughly good and amusing bloke apart from being a highly accomplished driver. Regards SKYBYWAYS

[RAF kid]

Hi SKYBYWAYS,

WOW! I'm absolutely amazed you have this information! Thank you so much for all the details. I'll spend some time digesting it all.

Kind Regards,

P.S. I've sent you a message with my email address.

[captain.speaking]

Skybyways

Please check you messages.

Thanks.

[Proplinerman]

Norwich: love the photos, thanks very much for posting. I'm not old enough to recall Hermes flying and the only one I've seen is G-ALDG at Duxford. Link below to photo of its interior that I took last October.

JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-ALDG (CN: 08) British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC) Handley Page Hermes by Michael Blank (http://tinyurl.com/3anlml8)

And here's the flight deck:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-ALDG (CN: 08) British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC) Handley Page Hermes by Michael Blank (http://tinyurl.com/34fsoao)

[carvid]

I was shipped to Cyprus as a RAF National Service man in July 1955 but in Skyways Hermes lV G-ALDV . We left Stansted at 4.30pm, arrived Ciampino (Rome) 8.30pm. Stayed for 2 hours before continuing to Nicosia where we arrived 6.30am local time. Refreshments on board were restricted to cold chicken salads and hot(ish) coffee plus sandwiches at about midnight!
G-ALDV crashed in April 1958 on a test flight caused it is thought, by foreign materials jamming the controls. Three occupants were killed.
Hope this helps

[David Rayment]

Carvid - That would have been my Father's last flight, (Capt G D Rayment) and the object was probably a split pin. I will have a look through his logbooks for the time regarding trooping flights

David Rayment

[carvid]

David - interesting. I have a photo of G-ALDV at Stansted taken before embarkation and also the flight bulletin issued by Capt Roberts and listing Miss Dudman and Miss Bullard as our flight attendants! (if only I knew how to send them through this system!!)

[David Rayment]

Capt G D Rayment

30/6/55 G-ALDS
HSQ 143
B'bush - Rome - Nicosia


3/7/55 to 6/7/55 G-ALDG HSQ145
Nicosia-Bahrain-Karachi-Delhi-Calcutta-Bangkok-Singapore

11/7/55 'G-AKFP HSQ147
Singapore-Bangkok-Calcutta-Karachi-Bahrain-Nicosia-Rome-LAP
13/7/55

And there is more indeed where this came from. Sadly I only have his logs up to 15/1/57. He had his latest one with him on 1/4/58

'From my Father's Log'
David Rayment

[David Rayment]

Hello Carvid - my first post was a bit misleading. My Father's last flight was on April 1st 1958 in 'LDV when it crashed at Meesden Green, nr. Stanstead. He was not on the trooping flight to which you refer but he did do some others and as Training Captain he did route checks etc.

Sorry for the confusion

David Rayment

[Proplinerman]

This wasn't the same Capt Rayment who was on the Manchester United Ambassador crash at Munich on 6-2-58 was it?

[David Rayment]

No. When Capt Kenneth Rayment (Munich, BEA) was killed (6/2/58) my Mother received many letters on condolence and she was able to reassure the senders that Gordon was fine. However two months later (1/4/58) Capt Gordon Rayment was killed in the crash of Hermes G-ALDV on an airtest after an engine change. The results of the investigation suggest that a small item such as a split pin jammed in the elevator datum lock thus depriving my Father and the co-pilot, Capt John West, of longitudinal control . . . . .


David Rayment

[Proplinerman]

Thanks for that and I should have realised that the two pilots couldn't possibly have been the same man, but I forgot that the other pilot named Rayment was in fact killed in the Munich crash.

[Proplinerman]

"David - interesting. I have a photo of G-ALDV at Stansted taken before embarkation and also the flight bulletin issued by Capt Roberts and listing Miss Dudman and Miss Bullard as our flight attendants! (if only I knew how to send them through this system!!)"

I would love to see this photo and the flight bulletin and I'm sure others here would too. Email me off forum and I'll be happy to explain how you can do this.

[Plymouth]

I flew in a Hermes (trooping flight) belonging to Skyways of London in October 1956 to Nicosia, Cyprus (stopping at Malta on route) with my mother and sister to join my father who was at that time serving with the RAF. I believe we left Stansted on either the afternoon of the 16th or 17th October and arrived in Nicosia the next morning.
'Skybyway', can you be of any help with the aircraft's registration, pilot etc?

It would be fantastic after all this time to find out the actual aircraft I flew on.

Plymouth

[David Rayment]

Hello Plymouth - my Father Capt G D Rayment took 'LDV down to Malta on 17/10/56, depart 14:50 from Stanstead arrive 21:05 Malta. Depart Malta 22:10 on the 17th arrive Nicosia at 03:00.

Could be the one then?

[Speedbird48]

Hi,

I was an apprentice with Skyways at Bovingdon. I worked on the last York (anyone know which one that was??) that they overhauled at Bovingdon and then the Hermes started to arrive.

They were flown from Heathrow after the cocoon had been removed and then stripped out for the inside to have the backwards facing seats required by the military. A lot of riveting and changing of floor top hat sections. The engines were changed to run on 100/130 octane with water meth injection.

Then they started the trooping runs. At the begining they all operated out of Blackbushe. The Cyprus run was a Skyways contract, and the Singapore one was on subcontract to Airwork who didn't have enough aircraft to fullfil the job.

I think G-ALDW was blown up by pencil bombs in the meal boxes in Cyprus and G-ALDV crached on a flight test from Stansted due to a cotter pin (split pin) jambing the elevators. The 3 crew were killed. I know the Flight Engineer was a Norman Bradley, and that the captain had crashed something else in the same area??? Maybe a RAF aircraft??

We spent a lot of time at Blackbushe doing the turnrounds and operated from a 6 wheel maintenance bus on the hardstandings alongside the A30. These road trips could be several days long, and nights.

The Skyways I worked for was nothing to do with the older Skyways at Dunsfold. We came onto the scene from Lancashire Aircraft Corp. The older Skyways had DC4's and went broke with the airplanes being sold to Air France.

Once all the conversions were done, 3 aircraft were sent to Beirut where two flew for Middle East Airlines and one for Kuwait.

About this time the Bovingdon operation was closed and everything went to Stansted. I didn't stay much longer and then went into the RAF before Skyways foundered.

The next time I saw a Skyways Hermes was in Coleys scrapyard near Hounslow where I had been sent from Northolt to get some oil pipes from some of the spare engines. The RAF had nil stock on them!!! They were only for the Chief of the Air Staffs Valleta?????????

Speedbird 48.

[David Rayment]

Hi Speedbird48.

The Capt of 'LDV was Gordon Rayment and the FO was John West. The crash site at Meesden Green was said to be near where Gordon lost an engine (literaly) from Halifax 'GZP in April '51. Search under Bovingdon in this forum

David

[Flightwatch]

Hello SKYBYWAYS

I wonder if you could give me some info on a Captain mentioned in post #15 as the commander of the last sector mentioned. He is Capt Fred Marvell - I used to fly with him frequently between 1966 and 1970 on the HS748 and Viscount with BKS.

He was one of my favourite mentors and filled my 20 year old head with tales of flying the Halifax and importing tropical fish whilst with Skyways, having to give them oxygen on sectors above 10,000 ft. amongst other things.

He was an excellent pilot who taught me a great deal and I remember he made a huge commute to LHR from somewhere in North Kent where he lived in the pre- M25 days. He was one of the few captains who from my first employment as a sprog fresh out of Oxford with 200 hours allowed me to actually fly a sector from time to time and for that I will be forever grateful.

He had the nickname of "Fiery Fred" due to the fact that he could have quite a short fuse when faced with incompetence but I always felt his impatience was well placed.

Unfortunately I lost track of him when I left BKS in 1970 but I believe he was too old to continue when BEA took over in 1974 and the retirement age was reduced to 55 from 60.

I doubt he is still with us but any info would be gratefully received.

Best wishes, Flightwatch.

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

I remember flying in a Hermes on a trooping flight from Manston to I think Wildenwrath Germany Date 21st Jan. 1961.

Memory fades a bit but would this have been a "Skyways" charter?

OPF

[Speedbird48]

David,

Thanks for stiring the memories. The accident was a lesson to me for the rest of my career to make sure the aircraft was totaly clean from loose articles. My boss with BOAC was not too pleased when I had a rant and, emptied a pocketful of loose crap that I had found in the lower 41 electrical bay of our 707's over a 5 day period. They did have a massive clean up after that.

I had read and seen a picture somewhere that one of the Halifaxes had shed an engine completely and the prop cut into the wing. Didn't realise it was your Dad.

Speedbird 48.

[David Rayment]

RE: G-ALDV

Good for you on your attempts to get aircraft cleared up. Skway found quite a lot of rubbish in their other Hermes' too!

Did you read the actual report or did you hear about the rubbish another way?

I was surprised when I interviewed (in 1999 or thereabouts) some of the pilots from Skyways who flew the Hermes, that they had never even read the report! There was even one who suggested that my Father had inserted the control locks during the flight!

[Speedbird48]

I also heard the one about the control locks being engaged?? But, the report stated that there where witness marks of a cotter pin at the rear where it had jambed under the elevator layshaft arm.
Speedbird 48