Thor missile photos 1963.

[manxterberg]

As I am new to the forum I'm not sure how many on here would be interested in Thor missiles.Anyway I was posted to RAF Feltwell in May 1960 after Bridgnorth and Kirton Lindsey.I was a Supplier and worked in the Supply and Movement Squadron.In 1963 the Thor bases - Feltwell,Hemswell,Driffield and North Luffenham plus their associated four satellites were being disbanded and I was seconded to a USAF Sergeant called Ernie Bish (rows of medals and stripes:)).Our job was to prepare all the documentation for shipment of equipment back to the States and I went all over the place with him - the bases mentioned above plus Lakenheath and Mildenhall.I even got to fly in a C-124 from Mildenhall to North Luffenham and back,the first time I had ever flown.I asked him if there was any chance of some photos "Leave it with me" he said.
These are the result and I think they were taken at either Hemswell or Scampton - Scampton was originally the airhead for the C-124s and C-133s coming in from the USA with the missiles but I always thought Hemswell was used when they were shipped out.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0389.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0394.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0395.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0396.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0397.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0398.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0399.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0400.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0401.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0402.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0403.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/scan0404.jpg

He told me that the only people who were a bit "iffy" about taking pictures were the Douglas Aircraft Corp personell.DAC were the main contractor.The 60 missiles were shipped back to Vandenburg AFB Cal. for launching satellites etc.The warheads were shipped seperately from either Lakenheath or Mildenhall.

[KeMac]

Manxterberg - very interesting and unusual. Thanks for sharing them.
Regards
KeMac

[Opssys]

Once converted, the Thor did become a very useful part of the US Space Programme and because it was, even after being reworked, a cheap option, the availabilty of Thor caused the cancellation of (from memory) at least one launcher/upper stage programme!

I stand corrected on Thor Displays in the UK see later post

[Atcham Tower]

Those are truly unique, historical photos; thanks for posting them. For obvious reasons, the Thors were usually kept under deep security!

[Postfade]

Yes unique photos I would think.

My father was stationed at Feltwell between 1958 and 1961 and as a 13 year old I was able to cycle on the old taxyway past the three Thor silos. On somedays you would see one raised to on it's launcher but they were usually 'laying down'.
On a couple of occasions however I saw one arrive on it's massive transporter, with the accompanying police escort. Great fun getting those things around the roads in Norfolk.
I always believed that they came into Mildenhall and although I made regular 'plane spotting' visits there don't think I ever saw one being unloaded.

David Taylor.
modern aviation video and 60's archive photos at www.focalplanes.co.uk (http://www.focalplanes.co.uk/)

[manxterberg]

Yes,Mildenhall was the airhead for Feltwell and it's four sites - Shepherds Grove,Tuddenham,Mepal and North Pickenham. I never saw one being off-loaded either as they were all in situ when I was posted to Feltwell in May 1960.I saw plenty being loaded for return to the USA and I also saw plenty on the local roads in Norfolk/Suffolk.
I can't remember where I got this photo from but USAF Studebakers were used to pull the missile trailers in the late 50s until RAF Leyland Hippos were used.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc209/manxterberg/Thor%20Missiles/ThorTransporter3.jpg

The total length was 90ft including the tractor unit and some site access roads had to be altered to accomodate the vehicles.The trailers had originally rigid rear bogies but were modified in the States into steering axles with two airmen on the back end in contact with the driver.

[tornadoken]

59 armed/1(Feltwell) inert Douglas PGM-17C Thor arrived 19/9/58-1/4/60; RAF (HQ) 77 Sqdn formed 1 Sept.58. US launch control to 3/6/60, then RAF-manned/dual launch control. Sqdns. disbanded from 8/1/63, last operational stand-down 15 August,63; last to depart to US: 27/9/63. 4 complexes of 5 sites, each with a Sqdn. of 3 IRBMs.

Complex: Feltwell, HQ Sqdn: 77; Satellites and their Sqdns.: 82 Shepherd’s Grove; 107 Tuddenham; 113 Mepal; 220 N.Pickenham.

Hemswell, 97; 104 Ludford Magna; 106 Bardney; 142 Coleby Grange; 269 Caistor.

Driffield, 98; 150 Carnaby; 226 Catfoss; 240 Breighton; 102 Full Sutton.

N.Luffenham 144; 223 Folkingham; 130 Polebrook; 218 Harrington; 254 Melton Mowbray.

6 officers, 15 SNCOs, 18 NCO/ORs per Sqdn.: life at their sites resembled that advised for soldiers of antiquity: "Let them be constantly employed either in field days or in the inspection of their arms... They should be frequently called by roll and trained to be exact in the observance of every signal." H.Wynn,RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces, HMSO,1994,P.344.

[JW411]

I well remember coming out of Oakington one morning whilst trying to learn how to master the Vickers Varsity in early 1962.

As we went past Mepal, one of the three resident Thors was upright and (apparently) ready to go.

My instructor called Oakington ATC and said "Just for your interest, Mepal has an erection this morning"!

The Thor and the Bloodhound sites were wonderful night navigation aids. They both had brilliant yellow/orange sodium security lighting all around them and they stuck out like dog's boll*cks. I'm sure the Russians would have found this feature quite useful.

[manxterberg]

Apparantly RAF aircrew looked down at the Thor and called them penguins-"All flap and no fly":)

[T-21]

JW411,

Priceless humour,great !

[Sir George Cayley]

Manxterberg,

Why are there two black Humbers parked at the end of your road?

Sir George Cayley

[Herod]

One thing has always puzzled me about missiles. National markings on aircraft are to enable identification of friend or foe. If a missile is fired with "US Air Force" or RAF roundels on it, when it is coming down, who is going to be interested?

[Load Toad]

The media.

[Dan Winterland]

The Thor launch pads were made from a specially hard concrete. I once spoke to a chap who got a contract to demolish one. He couldn't! He reckoned they will still be around in ten thousand years.

[John Farley]

I too used to look at them erect while I was flying out of Barkston in 1961-2.

One day I found myself in an RAF Hospital (those were the days) in a bed next to a Thor site RAF engineer who talked to me about fuelling them and how you had to be careful as the fuel was a hypergolic mixture of unsymmetrical di-methyl hydrazine with red fuming nitric acid as the oxidant. His stories impressed the hell out of me so much that I can remember the details of the fuel to this very day.

[Rory57]

Anyone up for the Thor fuelling risk assessment?
Thought not.
Nice wee book on Thor and the RAF here: Project Emily: Thor IRBM and the RAF: Amazon.co.uk: John Boyes: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Project-Emily-Thor-IRBM-RAF/dp/0752446118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276621088&sr=1-1)

[Johnboyes]

As author of 'Project Emily', (signed copies available) I am interested in the various posts to this thread, Small point: don't go to Hendon to see the Thor, it's not there any longer, it's part of the display in the Cold War Museum at Cosford - well worth a visit. There is some reason to believe that it is not in fact one of the RAF's IRBM but has been reconfigured to look like one (info from one of the Sqn COs) but I have not yet managed to research this fully. There is a second Thor as a launch vehicle at the National Space Museum at Leicester. Incidentally, I am writing a second 'Thor' book looking in greater detail at the UK/US aspects of the project. I am keen for any memories, however great or small, from those who were around at that time. So if anyone wants to help, please let me know.

Demolishing the launch pads: One at Feltwell was demolished as golf balls were ricocheting off the blast walls to the danger of fellow golfers. It took three months, so the other two have just had the walls removed and the rest covered up.

RAF roundels: Part of the reason was indeed to emphasise in the public eye and through the media that these were RAF missiles, not USAF ones. Politically this was a sensitive issue at the time. (And if you want to know why they didn't also initially carry yellow trainer bands as well during the work up phase then read my book)!

[gbh]

One at Feltwell was demolished as golf balls were ricocheting off the blast walls to the danger of fellow golfers
I guess that's what you call a nuclear bunker.

[Windy Militant]

Possibly not entirely connected to the thread but perhaps the panel could tell me what this is? It was known as the "Blue Streak Cabin" when I first encountered it on site, it was used as a temporary control cabin on one of the experimental areas, I use it as a store for lifting gear, lubricants and general odds n sods.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/DSC00023-2.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/DSC00026.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/DSC00025.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/DSC00024.jpg What's written on the makers Plate.

Douglas Aircraft Co Inc Santa monica Calif USA.
Missile Launching Countdown Group Trailer Mounted
A/M24 A-1A.
part No 5681711.505
serial No 000076
date 02.2.62
Contract No AF04.647.114
WT 14240

Hat ,coat and out the trap door!
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/DSC00029-1.jpg

[Synthetic]

Remarkable pictures. Looks a very tight fit into the transport.

Thankyou for showing us. :ok:

[manxterberg]

The nearest I can get to that part number is AF/M42A-1A which was a Hydraulic Pumping Unit for the Thor Launcher/Erector.Douglas Aircraft Santa Monica CA were the main contractor for the Thor missile.
I got this info out of John Boyes excellent book "Project Emily,Thor IRBM and the RAF".:ok:

[Windy Militant]

Thanks Manxterberg,
At least that points towards it being a part of the Thor Launch group unit. It's more than I've previously managed to find either by searching for the part numbers or a response from the Boeing archive who didn't even respond to my e-mail, not even an automated reply to say they were too busy to reply! ;)

[Johnboyes]

The pictures are very relevant to the thread and is extremely interesting. This is a Thor Trailer-Mounted Launching Coutdown Group, part of the control system on the launch pad, serial etc. is entirely correct. Is it still there? if so please do not destroy it!

I have the complete Thor manual and will post a diagram from it showing the trailer. The part number is a revised 1962 code. My book lists the earlier version, AN/MSA-21.

[Windy Militant]

Hello John,
The Photo's were taken on my phone yesterday and it's as you see it there, and just a bit sorry for it self. We have no plans to get rid of it as there'd be nowhere for us to keep our bob's n bits.
It would be nice to know it's history before it arrived at the Lab IIRC it was used on the Nimrod accelerator before it ended up with us.

[sisemen]

Not particularly relevant but I remember always looking forward to looking out of the bus windows at the Thor outside RAF Driffield as we went on our annual day trip to Bridlington.

[Johnboyes]

Here are two pages from the Douglas Technical Manual showing a cutaway of the trailer and also where it was situated on the launch pad.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx178/DACThor/Thor/ThorPad2.jpg[/IMG]

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx178/DACThor/Thor/ThorPad1.jpg[/IMG]

[Windy Militant]

That's the bunny, but unfortunately the only things left inside are the light fittings, and they no longer work so we've had to fit a strip light of our own.
I seem to recall there was another trailer which was scrapped around the time we acquired this one. I'll have to check on that though as the memory isn't what it used to be.

[manxterberg]

I left RAF Feltwell in Jan 1964 and years later,in the late 60s onwards when in civvie street as an HGV driver I saw ex Thor site trailers in a yard belonging to Leavesleys at the side of the A38 between Burton and Lichfield.They were there for donkey's years.

[John Farley]

John

This thread made me get your book. My! You did some historical research for that - well done you. Fascinating.

JF

[Johnboyes]

John

Many thanks for your kind comments. As I result of writing the book I was invited to the 50th Project Emily Reunion of Douglas employees involved with the project. As a result of this I got a large amount of new data for my follow-up book on Thor - and of course there is also the unexpected items such as the Countdown Trailer. So, still more to come I am sure!

John

[lynbarn]

My father was stationed at RAF Carnaby, and was a launcher/navigator on Thor. He and his crew went to USAF vandenberg (on a luxury liner, SS Sylvania - those were the days!) for a test firing, and I remember that quite well - or at least I remember some of the goodies he returned with.
He was also on duty during the Cuban missile crisis, with his finger on the button. I also remember an open day (possibly at Driffield) where I was able to talk to Dad from a phone on one side of the launch cradle (were they bright red, I seem to remember?), while he was round the other side. He said the phones were there so that he could hear the countdown and knew when to push the button, although I suspect that may not be entirely true!

Dad passed away last week, and as part of a tribute to be shown at his funeral, I would like to show footage of a Thor (preferably in RAF livery) lifting off and into the sky - perhaps about 60 seconds-worth.

I have found some British Pathe footage, but this is rather short and disjointed, but I wondered if there is anybody who might be able to supply something suitabe for this one-off use?

Kind regards, Martyn, son of Leon de Young, RAF D4128566

[SAMSO Test Director]

Just found this Forum and really appreciate the Thor History. Also have an up date on what happened to two of the "war" Thors.

They were both launched (Sep and Nov 1975) from Johnston Atoll in the Pacific Ocean to the Island of Kwajlein in the Marshall Islands - approx 1400 NM. When launched they were in their orginal war time configuration with their warheads (without the nuclear weapon) and performed all functions well within their mission specifications. Hope this answers the question "Would they have hit their target?" that I suspect many launch crews wondered on their long hours of operational alert.

These flights were part of the Ballistic Missile Defense Test Target Program (BMDTTP) that gathered early data for the US Missile Defense Program. They were launched by the 10th Aerospace Defense Group stationed at Vandenberg AFB in California.

These missiles had previously been part of the now declassified "Program 437" ground launched Anti-Satellite system operational on Johnston from 1964 to 1972.

I would love to make contact with some of the orginal RAF crews and possibly track down just where these two missiles were stationed.

Thanks again for the photos and the history.

Arnold "John" West
Lt Col, USAF (Ret)
BMDTTP Test Director

[brokenlink]

Heard a similar story when the were demolishing the pads at Mepal a few years ago for new straw burning power station. Contractor did some serious and permanent damage to his JCB thingy with the pneumatic chisel on the end trying to break up said concrete. He won in the end and all that remains of the pads today is a section of concrete with the rails in them for the missile canopys.
However the Missile Control Cuilding still stands in an adjacent field as does some of the wartime WAAF blocks and the post war ROC bunker still exists on the other side of the airfield, now bisected by the A142.

[WELLINGTON115]

Does the Douglas Technical Manual show any details for the gas cylinder trailers?

Were there any changes to these trailers when used by the Royal Air Force?

thanks

David Molyneux

[Johnboyes]

Ref your comment about the problem missile at Mildenhall. All Thors were taken back to the US by the autumn of 1963 so could not have been a Thor.

[Johnboyes]

There is a fairly detailed diagram of the Gaseous Nitrogen Storage Trailer (Compressed Gas Cylinder Semitrailer AF/M32A-17) in the Douglas Manual. If I can remember how to, I shall add this diagram! I do not know if it was altered for RAF use, but I would imagine not as the whole emplacement was essentially the Douglas design. JB

[TheChitterneFlyer]

In the late 1960s I was an Air Cadet and that I learned to fly gliders (T21s and T53s) at RAF Hemswell. The airfield was littered with all manner of concrete bunkers (to be avoided at all costs)... one or two solo pilots got (unintentionally) very close to some of those grey installations during aborted cable launches... happy days!

[Johnboyes]

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx178/DACThor/ThorNitrogenTrailer.jpg?t=1289580231

[T-21]

As a result of reading this interesting thread I purchased a signed copy from John Boyes of Project Emily. What a well researched book with lots of titbits to fascinate like the Proctor landing at RAF Polebrook in 1960 causing a security scare. Also the daily C-47 ferry flight from Northolt to Lakenheath then Hemswell and Driffield back to Northolt via North Luffenham carrying Douglas technicians and spares back in 1959.
When I was at school in the sixties "nuclear" physics was a taboo :mad: subject probably to stop anxiety in us as we had all seen footage of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atom bombs. I wonder how local residents to the Thor bases were affected psycologically as they would have been annihilated in a nuclear strike ?

[tornadoken]

The spirit of the time was that we are all in the same boat. We knew that an H-Bomb attack would leave no hiding place. So folk either supported CND, if they believed the Sovs would not waste ordnance on little ole nukeless UK, or relied on deterrence/Alliance. There was no Nimby-ism in those days: it never crossed peoples' minds to suggest that a military site should be shifted to some other place. Maybe we all still remembered how grateful we all were to hear the Combined Bomber Offensive reaping where our enemy had sown.

[John Farley]

School teachers have been motivated by political considerations regarding what they have and have not taught for many years in the UK. Two of my wives have been teachers and they were VERY anti some NUT stances.

[Molodets]

¡Buen día desde España a todos!:
Hello everybody, I just arrived to this forum to make my modest contribution and learn all I can about the Thor missiles, in most cases directly from people who served on the RAF in those days.

[D120A]

I recall a spontaneous discussion in the sixth form at my (co-educational) school in the early 1960s about nuclear weapons and deterrence, and the teacher being extremely uncomfortable about the subject having been raised.

He didn't have to squirm for long, however, because one of the girls said: "If there is one of these 4-minute warnings and it turns out to be a false alarm, some of us girls are going to look pretty stupid, aren't we?"

In later years when more involved in the actual business, I thought that was a profoundly astute piece of analysis from a 17 year-old. She was beautiful, too, and for 50 years I have wondered who she had in mind, knowing for certain that it wasn't me.:8

[SPIT]

Many years ago (in the early 60s) when I was a little Air Cadet we had our Summer Camp at RAF Topclife (please excuse the spelling I say it's premature senility ???) and one day we visited a nearby missile site. Does anyone know which it may have been, it was about 1hrs drive away. :confused::confused:

[3D CAM]

Full Sutton, Breighton, Driffield, Carnaby, Catfoss. My money is on Full Sutton.
3D

[LowNSlow]

My sister-in-law's dad was on Thors as his last detachment in the RAF. He'd started as a fitter on Hawker Demons......

[tornadoken]

Young journo Winston Churchill was shot at in 1895 in Cuba. US Army there in 1898 looked over a hill from a tied balloon. Churchill's last Cabinet in 1955 funded Blue Streak, which drew on much Thor data, inc. latterly its warhead. Massive Aero techno-strides in one (long) adult lifetime.

[ricardian]

I was at RAF Driffield 1961-63 in the commcen. It was rather worrying to discover that the Thor missile guidance system was built by the AC Spark Plug Company.

[docbob]

The photographs showing the loading or unloading of Thors into the aircraft are superb. I was at North Luffenham and the idea of anyone carrying a camera was unheard of. I hope that the site at Royal Air Force North Luffenham, as it was once called, now a Grade 2 listed can show a bit more of the 'Cold War' period that the country went through.

[docbob]

They were not silos. They were horizontal until being made ready for launch

[docbob]

And a good job too. I tell people that I was on squadrons in the Royal Air Force that never flew a mission. Thank God.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

When I served on Bloodhound in the 70s we would be detailed to send a missile to Aberportth for a test firing. Did similar happen for the Thor?


Aaron.

[ExAscoteer]

I believe the RAF carried out 12 test firings of which 2 failed.

IIRC they were fired from Vandenburg AFB.

[YellowPinkie]

Each Thor team was supposed to go to Vandenberg AFB in California with a missile demounted from a launch emplacement on their site. This was called a CTL (Continuation/Combat Training Launch, depending on where you read it).

In the end not all crews got the opportunity, but plenty did. One of the North Luffenham launches had the code name Acton Town.

[ExAscoteer]

AFAICS There is a difference between Test Firings and Training Firings.

[YellowPinkie]

Yup.

The CTLs were to give the RAF real experience of launching the round, and also give Douglas the knowledge of how a missile performs that has been shipped both ways across the Atlantic and sat on a pad in the British weather...would it actually make it to Moscow?

[hoofie]

Fantastic Thread with great pictures - thanks everyone.

I've grabbed a copy of John's book on my Kindle and look forward to reading it

[YellowPinkie]

It's the definitive work on Thor, I wasn't aware it was available on e-book...I might indulge as it saves getting out of the chair when I need to check something...

Research isn't what it used to be! :)

[nacluv]

It's interesting to note that several old Thor pads are still very much in evidence at Vandenburg AFB.

[YellowPinkie]

I was over there in May 2013 and had a fantastic guided tour round the old Thor facilities. SLC-10 is the preserved Thor site complete with a Program 437 missile, LE-8 is in a good condition and is where a lot of the CTLs were launched from. LE-7 is slowly rotting away but has a lot of Thor relics including what's left of an ex-Harrington missile that was used to prove the effectiveness of laser weapons (they're effective!)

SLC-1E is in a terrible state, but has a certain appeal.

I was really privileged to have this tour as there were no public tours due to budget cuts last year; to have such unrivalled access was incredible.

[Windy Militant]

I have some news about the Launch Cabin. If any body is in contact with Mr Boyes could they please ask him to contact me soonest.

[YellowPinkie]

I have some news about the Launch Cabin. If any body is in contact with Mr Boyes could they please ask him to contact me soonest.

I'm sure John is subscribed to this thread, but I've let him know separately.

[Windy Militant]

Thanks YellowPinke I've now managed to make contact with John.

[Windy Militant]

Just for info the Thor Cabin is now safely at it's new home at the Carpetbagger Museum (http://www.harringtonmuseum.org.uk/CarpetbaggerMuseumHomePage.htm) :ok:

[OggySapper]

Really enjoyed reading this thread. I was approx 2 1/2 months old on the weekend of 27 Oct 1962. Living in the RAF Officers Caravan site No5 at RAF Gaydon. Rather glad the "Penguin"s didn't fly as my Dad would have been heading for somewhere cold on the other side of the Baltic to introduce them to the concept of Global Warming or "instant sunshine" on a one way trip, while the rest of us headed for my Granddad's old drift mine in South Wales.

[BSD]

Fascinating thread.

Having driven many times between Grand Isle, Vermont and Montreal I'd often been intrigued by "Missile base road" just north of the town of Arlberg and just south of the Canadian border.

Turns out, it was just that - the site of an ICBM silo, which in the sixties was the closest such installation to the "the enemy"

I believe the missiles in those silos were Thors.

The particular silo was only operational for a short period, but a local chap recounted how the missile was brought up to launch status during the Cuban missile crisis.

I also believe, the silo is flooded and the concrete doors(12 tons?) are permanently propped open as part of an arms limitation agreement so they can be monitored by satellites.

[Tocsin]

I don't think Thor would have the range needed from Vermont - possibly (given the time period) it was an Atlas missile site?

[BSD]

I'm sorry to mislead: you are correct. I found a website which identifies the missiles as Atlas F.

Fascinating stories surrounding them, but alas not "the god of thunder"

My apologies.

[Tocsin]

No problem, BSD - all adds to our knowledge. My knowledge of Thor amounted to an air cadet night exercise around the old Hemswell site in the UK :)