RAF Odiham's Flt Lt Ian Fortune on the Beeb

[Wonderwokka]

BBC News - RAF Chinook pilot tells how his helmet saved his life (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10263713.stm)

:D

[minigundiplomat]

Well done Chopper. Lucky it missed your 'pizza hand'; that would have been a drama!

[helidriver]

A similar incident happened to an AAC Lynx pilot in Baghdad. He didn't receive an award!

[EESDL]

..suggest the AAC pilot complains to his CO

Great job guys and girls.

[occhips]

Give him an AFC, DFC and a KFC !

[Green Flash]

Interview on BBC news in a few mins

[wokkamate]

Helidriver.....

He got a nice cracked windshield and helmet though! Alpha helmets......bulletproof! If I remember rightly he had a bloody face too. :}

Now Keith R - he got proper shot! Nice scars to prove it too......:eek:

[Junta Leader]

Great job on the Beeb News....

Galantry award thoroughly deserved. The work these guys and gals do is utterly fantastic...

See the BBCs report at BBC News - RAF Chinook pilot tells how his helmet saved his life (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10263713.stm)

[bombedup6]

Wonder why nobody, certainly not on TV, has mentioned that this was ZA718 - Bravo November - the RAF's most famous aircraft?

[teeteringhead]

Wonder why nobody, certainly not on TV, has mentioned that this was ZA718 .. probably to avoid someone suggesting it's a (nearly) 30 yo aircraft!

Bit like Geo Washington's axe in the Smithsonian ... it's had two new heads and three new handles ...but it's still the same axe!

Begs an interesting question (excuse thread drift) how much of Langers' original BN was still there for Ian Fortune .....:confused:

[gijoe]

'Flying so low to the ground, with medics in the back struggling to sedate the wounded, there was no time to hand over to the co-pilot.'

Would somone like explain this? What was the LHS doing?

Gallantry? OC Flt get a grip.

As helidriver said above, ummm............

[Grabbers]

Astounded by the lack of grace on here. Come on fellas, my guess is that the 'Gallant Hero' isn't too keen on the PR spin or the 'award' should it come. And even if he is, so what? Goodness knows all helo crews deserve more public recognition for the outstanding job they have done unsung for years. Yes I am sure there are lots of instances of equally brave/lucky/unlucky* individuals doing things that never will receive the recognition they deserve. These awards owe equally as much to political expediency as they do to objective assessment. That's life.

He's in a situation that plays well in the media and engenders public support for all of us.

*delete as appropriate if you are really that arsed. :ugh::ugh:

[RC10]

Grabbers well said. I too cannot believe the reaction of some on this thread given the subject. Helidriver and gijoe's tone smack of individuals with a large chip on the shoulder coupled with a dose of childish jealousy.

Of course there are multiple acts of bravery taking place every day in theatre across the whole spectrum. And yes, due to the nature of Ops many of these acts are not duly recognised. That should not diminish the achievements of those who do get the normally elusive recognition. In this case thankfully Fortune's Boss did the right thing and wrote him up for what was clearly an outstanding act of bravery in the air.

To all those on 'SH', thank you for the fantastic job you continue to do for all of the guys and girls on the ground in the sandpit.

[minigundiplomat]

gijoe,

The LHS (non handling pilot) was probably doing their job - ie non handling mission management.

The fact it took Ian a few seconds to realise what had occurred (and he was the one that had been hit) suggests the NHP may be forgiven for not wrestling control from him at the moment of impact.

At 50' and 140 kts, how long do you think it would take to potentially impact the ground?

If you have flown a Chinook IRT in Helmand, then I will bow to your informed decision from 4500 miles away, if not probably best to say nothing.

Either way, probably best if you avoid slagging people of in events of which you know little about.

Pr1ck!

[Gentleman Jim]

Helldriver and gijoe

Perhaps the reason why the guy in the AAC did not get an award for gallantry is because his boss couldn't be arsed to write him up for one. That's all it would have taken.

Some folks on here make me laugh with the attitude of 'well he's just doing his job'!, yes he maybe, but what is wrong with recognising achievement when our guys and gals 'just do their job, but do it bloody well'. It is because people have bosses like Helldriver and gijoe that they don't get awards for gallantry when they are well due. Tell me, do you two say 'bah humbug'! at christmas to little kids as well?

Gentleman Jim

[TEEEJ]

'Bravo November' Returns

RAF - Chinook Returns (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/chinookreturns.cfm)

RAF - Royal Air Force CH47 Chinook 'Bravo November' (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/royalairforcech47chinookbravonovember.cfm)

RAF - News by Date (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.cfm?storyid=12C68FBA-5056-A318-A8A0EEBF9D219208)


TJ

[helidriver]

OK, I'll bite,

If Ian performed continiously throughout his tour tour before and after this incident then fair play! As for sour grapes, I already have the recognition for my my tour thankyou! This is not about sour grapes, and I sincerely offer my wishes to Ian, however, if he is honoured for this incident then then there are many others who should be also. My platoon Sgt in Afghanistan had a round stuck in his helmet after a contact, however his MC was awarded for many other other acts after this incident.

My isssue is not with the SH fleet, it's pilots or groundcrew. It's with with a system that suggests that if aircrew is shot at then they derserve "the highest gallantry award".

Many individuals who comment on here do so without practical experience. If you haven't served there, and I mean in a FOB within Helmand on the ground, then back off!

Ian, well done on your luck, you had a great team behind you.

h

[minigundiplomat]

ok helidriver,

some interesting points. I'm sure your platoon sgt deserved his MC in every sense of the spirit in which the award was given. Well done to him, though I'm sure you'd be a bit teed off if everyone on here wanted to second guess his every decision and decide by committee whether he deserved an award or not - so I suggest you back off.

I have the greatest respect for those in the FOB's, god knows Ive seen nearly all of them at one time or another.

However, you are unlikely to find many people on here assigned to FOB's in theatre......

it is afterall, a site for military aircrew. Most spend their time flying on ops, which involves, rightly or wrongly, operating from MOB's.

I do however, accept your fire is directed mainly at the system. Not much anyone on here can do about that - this place is mainly a talking shop for the eternal dit spinners of military aviation.

[wokkamate]

Helidriver - If every SH mate (including CHF and AAC) or indeed every AH mate got a bravery award from

"a system that suggests that if aircrew is shot at then they derserve "the highest gallantry award".

then there would be very few Helicopter crews out there without bravery awards. The bar is continually being raised by the level of operations being conducted and the bravery of the crews. Ian sat in his 20 ton bullet magnet watching the dust puffs as bullets hit the ground all around him, he then took a round through the front screen as he was transitioning with a load of pax down the back (including wounded servicemen). That round hit his head. He continued flying, got back to Bastion, got stiched up and has continued flying since.

The 'system' quite rightly should (and hopefully will) reward that level of courage. Many people do many brave and heroic things on ops, on the ground and in the air, not all get recognised, but some do and some must - usually down to the write up.

As MGD states, this is primarily an aviation forum, if you don't agree with that then please pop over to ARRSE to voice your concerns with the system, where you will get a more sympathetic ear....:}

[Brian Abraham]

Goodness knows all helo crews deserve more public recognition for the outstanding job they have done unsung for years. Yes I am sure there are lots of instances of equally brave/lucky/unlucky* individuals doing things that never will receive the recognition they deserve.Had a chap who took a 7.62 through the windscreen and entered the space between his head and helmet just above ear level. Bullet zipped around twix head and helmet and exited back out through the windscreen. Even the award concious US didn't feel it merited a purple heart as no blood had been spilt. Neat haircut though he sported for a while.

[Grabbers]

Brian,

You're citing the Americans as an example? Try another straw fella.

[Cmn2644]

Well said WM and MGD ...

To clarify ...

Being hit was just a very small part of an outstanding piece of bravery and flying from Ian and his crew that day. Too hot to go in initially, men literally dying from their wounds on the ground, taking MG fire on the way in, taking MG and SA fire whilst on the ground loading casualties, taking MG fire on the way out resulting in aircraft issues shall we say. Dealing with all that, then getting hit in the head, bloody streaming down his face, having the composure to keep control and make sure his crew were ok whilst demanding from BN everything she had left to get the casualties who were still dying in the back to Bastion. Then after literally a day or too to recover, back flying Ops and IRT into similar situations.

It was not simply a stray round hitting him as he went about his business !

I hope he gets an award - he bloody deserves it, and knowing Ian, he will accept in on behalf of us all. No one flies to be recognised out there. We do it to help the blokes on the ground who are literally in the fight of their lives. Words can not describe our respect for them and we would fly into hell if it meant getting them out alive.

Finally, special mention to MERT - you know who you are. Thousands of families owe you a debt for keeping their loved one alive in what must be by a mile the most challenging medical environment anywhere in the world.
:D:D:D

[skua]

I have a son who is currently in one of the tastier PBs. It gives me a great measure of reassurance that the SH force is full of aircrew with the fortitude of Ian. I for one would not begrudge him an AFC or whatever. Keep up the good work.:ok:

[Gas_Monkey]

Must be costing Chomper a fortune in beer. No pun intended.

I think the LHS pilot was busy putting out the mayday.

[blanket.stacker]

Wokkamate,

Different issue - do you know if Keith R got to the top of Everest (with Josh Lewsey) in the end? A lot of coverage when it was announced, but gone quiet since......

BS

[Gentleman Jim]

Helidriver

OK, I'll bite,

If Ian performed continiously throughout his tour tour before and after this incident then fair play! As for sour grapes, I already have the recognition for my my tour thankyou! This is not about sour grapes, and I sincerely offer my wishes to Ian, however, if he is honoured for this incident then then there are many others who should be also. My platoon Sgt in Afghanistan had a round stuck in his helmet after a contact, however his MC was awarded for many other other acts after this incident.

My isssue is not with the SH fleet, it's pilots or groundcrew. It's with with a system that suggests that if aircrew is shot at then they derserve "the highest gallantry award".

Many individuals who comment on here do so without practical experience. If you haven't served there, and I mean in a FOB within Helmand on the ground, then back off!

Ian, well done on your luck, you had a great team behind you.

I find your reply somewhat amusing, so you have been recognised, well, well done you.

So now you think that other military people on here without having been in a 'FOB in Helmand on the ground' are unable to determine if they believe an act constitutes being brave, gallant or not! You are getting a little carried away with yourself aren't you?

It's with with a system that suggests that if aircrew is shot at then they derserve "the highest gallantry award"

No it is not if aircrew are shot, it is how they conduct themselves when they have been shot. I don't think you find many VC winners who were awarded the medal for doing a good job throughout their tour (as seems to be your requirements above), they were awarded for instances of exceptional bravery above and beyond the call of duty, similar with many other awards. There are many many squaddies who would not be in possession of such bravery awards if your criteria were applied, including Beharry. There are specific awards available and appropriate if you do a good job during your tour, the bravery awards are for just that, bravery in the face of battle.

I didn't see anybody label it as sour grapes but you are certainly ungracious . In your first sentence above you say, 'If Ian performed continiously throughout his tour tour before and after this incident then fair play', well to be honest how do you know he didn't? You leap in straight at a conclusion that you cannot possibly arrive at without having accompanied him throughout his tour. Whats up with you? Do you want less awards given out so that yours looks better at dining in nights:=

Gentleman Jim

To the Wokka mates.
As a complete aside, what a pedigree BN has. 30 years of service and still does not falter when she is needed. I bet even all the other wokkas whisper of her, bit of a legend in the fleet really.

[Brian Abraham]

Being hit was just a very small part of an outstanding piece of bravery and flying from Ian and his crew that day. Too hot to go in initially, men literally dying from their wounds on the ground, taking MG fire on the way in, taking MG and SA fire whilst on the ground loading casualties, taking MG fire on the way out resulting in aircraft issues shall we say. Dealing with all that, then getting hit in the head, bloody streaming down his face, having the composure to keep control and make sure his crew were ok whilst demanding from BN everything she had left to get the casualties who were still dying in the back to Bastion. Then after literally a day or too to recover, back flying Ops and IRT into similar situations.
For Grabbers benefit the above was standard fare for the likes of a previous generation such as SASless, Eagle86 and self. Well remember my first day as a lead pilot of a formation of four. Not one aircraft remained flyable, though we managed to get out of the LZ ambush, and suffered something like 60% of participants dead. Personally I got off lightly, a round between the shoulder blades - here's to armour seats. My crewchief was not so lucky, though survived.
Another day, question "how do we recognise the LZ", answer, easy "there's ten aircraft on the ground burning".

What flavour is that other straw Grabbers, strawberry is my favourite.

Does not detract from the fine efforts Ian and chums are making, but a continuation of the exemplary efforts those in uniform have always made when up against it.

[helidriver]

BS,

Keith and Josh unfortunately didn't make the summit, however were only about about 100m from doing so, due to oxygen equipment malfunctions. So, very well done to them regardless.

GJ,

I made my point, you made yours! Ungracious? At the last Odiham Christmas Ball I sought out those who came in many times to pick-up my dead, dying and wounded soldiers to offer my personal thanks. Were you there? Feel free to PM me if you wish to make more personal assumptions and I'll reply to you personally.

All,

The heroism of the Chinook fleet and the MERT is without question. I have witnessed some extraordinary acts by some extraordinary people and am proud to say some are even close friends of mine.

I am an Army Pilot and volunteered to do a couple of years with an infantry based unit. I have flown on many ops as well as my recent ground tour, although now back to flying and I appreciate the stresses of both. I can honestly say that the first and last 5 minutes of every Chinook flight in Afghanistan was worrisome to say the least. The same can be said of patrolling on foot around Sangin. There is a mutual respect of those duties which require some to put themselves into harms way for the sake of others. The ground call-signs, without exception, rely very heavily on the Chinook fleet to perform, which they do day-in and day-out. In fact, if the Chinook fleet were not in theatre then the FOBs would not exist. The fleet is more than a force multiplier, it is an essential strategic requirement and it's crews are truly valued by those they serve.

Whilst Ian's Situation was extraordinary I don't think the media has done him many favours. The re-enactment was cheesy and led my earlier stated posts. Since that article, all the pilots I spoke to felt the same way and it appears a couple of brave souls felt the same on this forum.

My comments were NOT to cast negative aspersions on the Chinook fleet but to highlight a poor piece of media which suggested that Ian had a 'very near-miss' and would be decorated for it. I am truly happy that this event has had a happy ending when so many don't and hopefully Ian will be recognised for his Afghanistan tour in it's entirety.

h

[Hammer Head Too]

are we all on the same side in this war ? :ugh:

HH2

[Gentleman Jim]

Helidriver

I made my point, you made yours! Ungracious? At the last Odiham Christmas Ball I sought out those who came in many times to pick-up my dead, dying and wounded soldiers to offer my personal thanks. Were you there? Feel free to PM me if you wish to make more personal assumptions and I'll reply to you personally.

I said ungracious, not ungrateful! No need for you to explain the thanks that you gave at the Christmas ball. I said ungracious for the way in which you appeared to dis the incident, and if you read your post to which I refer, at no point do you refer that you are saying the media has done no favours to Ian, as you did in your post above, you imply it is the system,- the military awards system.

As it happens I was not at the Odiham Christmas Ball this year (if that is what you mean), though I have been to many many over the years, perhaps we will meet at the next one. I was not aware that I had made any personal assumptions in my post.

Your 'sober response' is much clearer than those that by logic must not have been sober ones.

With continued thanks to the troops on the ground.

Gentleman Jim

[Green Flash]

HH2 - bang on. OK, Chomper got a round bounce off the NVG rail but he got out with his load, got fixed and went back for more the next day, in support of those out in the bondu and with the support of the whole team.

We are all on the same side. No, really, we are.

Pity there could not be some sort of group gong, for those in the sh!t in contact and for those like IF and crew for extracting them from the aforementioned ordure.

[minigundiplomat]

Helidriver,

context is a wonderful thing. It adds meaning to a statement. Have a good weekend fella.

MGD

[helidriver]

....and you, let the squadie bashing end!

h

[Dunhovrin]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread and for not catching it first time round:

Just watched Mike Brewer's docu somewhere on Sky with the BN head shot.

Got to ask: Never mind clunkers-all-round, has Chomper been promoted for his bravery in the face of the press? 10/10 for the coolest intercom call ever.

And..God forgive, me I nearly got wet looking at a Wokka.

[P6 Driver]

GIJOE - Would somone like to explain this? What was the LHS doing?


Scratching his bum while reading a paperback? What do you think he was doing?

HELIDRIVER - I enjoyed the back-pedalling reply!

:D

Every incident is different, and when the "powers that be" read the reports, see the photographs/film, examine the equipment used and interview those who were actually there (as opposed to most of us), they may come to a different conclusion to yours and decide a gallantry award is merited. If we all try hard, we can get over this and just thank & congratulate those who were there and receive the awards rather than sniping from behind a keyboard.