Strange Takeoff & Landing

[rachel1707uk]

Apologies if this is a stupid thing to ask (and/or in the wrong place) but I flew back to LBA from IBZ with Jet2 this morning (4 Jun 10, LS198, arr. 1315ish) and the takeoff and landing seemed slightly unusual and I was wondering if anyone might be able to shed any light on it.

During takeoff we ascended to probably no more than 800-1000ft (I'm not an expert so I'm afraid that's a complete guess) before there was a fairly sudden drop in engine noise and the plane levelled off for about 60-90 secs before the engine noise increased again and the plane resumed ascending. The rest of the flight was normal until about 5-10 mins before landing; the plane made a few sharp left turns (it must have been almost a full circle) before a very bumpy landing with flaps looking (to my untrained eye) more extended on the right wing than the left one and what sounded like quite a bit more noise from the left side of the plane than the right. Also, when we disembarked the left engine was idling (I think that's what I mean!) but the right one was completely off with someone in a high-vis jacket looking into it.

Am I just letting my imagination run away with me or does that sound like there was something unusual about the flight? If so, what?

Thanks in advance for any responses! :)

[TightSlot]

Rachel

Welcome to PPRuNe

Engine power is often reduced shortly after take-off to reduce the noise that affects the communities surrounding the airport. It is later increased again so that your aircraft can climb to cruising altitude.

Most charter aircraft are worked fairly hard during the Summer months, and it would be quite normal for an engineer to be inspecting the aircraft on arrival, in preparation for the next flight. I suspect that the left engine probably wasn't actually running, since the left side is that side that you would have disembarked from, and people and running engines are not a good mix. The blades in the engine are very finely balanced, and will rotate, like a windmill, in a very light breeze.

I'd guess that the turning, bumping, flaps things is just a perception. Leeds is a bumpy runway, and a breezy airport, and this may make your otherwise normal landing appear to be something other than it was.

[Basil]

Nightmare flight leaves passengers traumatised!

A charter flight from Ibeza to Leeds experienced multiple brushes with death as it swooped from the holiday island to the grim reality of the North.
On take off the pilot had to abort his climb as the engines lost power at 800ft. Frantic button pushing finally got the computer to say "Yes!" and the flight resumed but at what cost to the passengers laundry bill?
The crew valiantly fought the controls to bring the plane close to Leeds where an emergency turn barely avoided tragedy.
The unbalanced final approach was followed by a crash landing and failure of the right engine.
A flight operations inspector rushed to the scene to begin investigations into the cause of the catastrophe.
A passenger who does not wish to be named said "Bally heck! That were dangerous! Next year us'll just go over to Moss Side for us holidays - much safer!"

Sorry Rachel - just couldn't resist and it puts off the outside painting job :)

[Load Toad]

Well funny - but - many years ago - on my first flight on a 'proper airliner with hair dryers' rather than in a 2 seat propeller 'plane that my dad's mate owned... I wondered how come turbine engines worked even whilst it was raining...

[PAXboy]

Hi rachel1707uk, our Moderator is a full time employee of a major international carrier and has worked as Cabin Crew for some years, his answer is 'the real deal'. For myself, I'm just a pax (although for some 40+ years).

With regards to the flaps - when they are extended, they go out at exactly the same rate and cannot be 'split' to be separate. That is because it would unbalance the aircraft. The amount of extension is called 'degrees of flap' so, if the flight crew have decided on 20 Degrees, then the control system extends both sides to that amount.

Bumpiness on arrival is much talked about and the essence of it is that it is unpredictable. It may well be that the aircraft is fully ready (in the right place in the sky for elevation and distance from the start of the runway, with the flaps and undercarriage ready and the speed bang on what the instructions say) and, as the machine is, say, 20 feet off the ground and the crew are committed to making the landing - an unexpected gust of wind arrives angling at the aircraft from the side/back/front. This can lift the aircraft up a bit and make it more difficult to land, or it can force the aircraft down at a slightly faster rate than planned.

Whichever it is, the crew will have experienced this before and the aircraft is well able to handle such variations. It may be a little jarring to you but you have arrived safely! Lastly on this, some aircraft do land more firmly than others and there are many reasons for this due to the nature of the design, weight and so forth of the machine but also weather conditions. If it is raining, then the crew will want the aircraft to be firmly on the ground, to start gentle braking as soon as they can.

Sometimes, the events about which you have asked, will change at no moments notice and the flight crew are trained to expect such things.

Welcome to the PPRuNe cabin. :ok:

[JEM60]

Get on with it, Basil. It's going to rain tomorrow.

[rachel1707uk]

Thanks greatly for all the replies (well, nearly all of them ;) ), that does make perfect sense and it's always interesting to know a bit more about the way these things work.

Just to clarify, I'm not the kind of person who worries about these things and my query was more from curiosity about a handful of what I would consider unusual things on a flight than a sense of "oh my God I could have been killed :eek: ". I'm well aware that PAXboy's comment that "the crew will have experienced this before and the aircraft is well able to handle such variations" can be extended to cover pretty much anything that happens during the course of a flight. I just wanted to know whether my imagination was running away with me and it would appear that, as usual, it was. :)

Edit: "The blades in the engine are very finely balanced, and will rotate, like a windmill, in a very light breeze." - that's exactly how it was, they were only barely turning, I assumed they'd kept it on just enough to keep the inside lights on after the captain made a cryptic comment about only turning off one of the engines once we were "plugged in" to the ground power supply :p

[PAXboy]

Once at the parking position, engines are shut down according to need and practice.
Ground power is usually connected on the front right hand side, underneath the flight deck. For this the right hand engine/s are shut down for the safety of the ground staff. Once power is transferred (internal lights tend to blink on and off) then the left engine/s are shut down. Only at this point may other personnel approach the machine, indicated by the flight crew in switching off certain red rotating beacon lights.
If no ground power is available (remote out station or the company choose not to pay the airport for the service) the crew will use the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) which is a mini jet engine situated at the base of the tail fin (called the vertical stabiliser but my anorak is beginning to rustle so I'd better be careful!) this provides all electrical power required and the engines can be shut down.The APU is used for a number of tasks and I shan't bore you with them here - unless you are foolish enough to ask!

Lastly, there are batteries to cover emergency lighting and basic radio functions etc.

[PAXboy crams his anorak back into the wardrobe]

[rachel1707uk]

Thanks for the explanation about the engine shutdown process, you've satisfied my geekiness for the day plus I feel strangely reassured that I'd heard the term vertical stabiliser before. :)

[PAXboy]

Oooo-er, Missus. Watch out for pilots saying, "That's just my vertical stabiliser." :E

rachel1707uk, if you carry on in this mode, you're going to fit in here! I shall now take Tight Slot's advice in the other thread and go to investigate the rest of my life ... :p

[Basil]

Just another little addition (serious this time).
Some jet engines have each fan blade fixed to the hub by a root shaped a bit like an inverted Christmas tree. It only locks solidly into position under the centrifugal force generated by rotation at speed.
When the engine is shut down but windmilling in a breeze the blades flop around emitting a most unprofessional clanking clattering noise.

Get on with it, Basil. It's going to rain tomorrow.
Not in Marlow. Higher council tax than Suffolk so we get better weather. :E

[Rhayader]

Nightmare flight leaves passengers traumatised!


Spilled my beer I did.

Off to the naughty step Basil.

:}

[BEagle]

rachel - it could have been worse! Tha' might have been flying wi' this lot:

YouTube - Yorkshire Airlines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLYpKGVBUg)

:)

[NG_Kaptain]

In the old days we could have invited you to the flight deck, alas with security etc that is no longer possible,

[WHBM]

Basil - does Mrs Basil know how you squandered the best outside painting day of the year by surfing here ? You'll be getting the profession a bad reputation :) Furthermore, you have omitted that the crew "narrowly missed a ....." [insert school/orphanage/convent as geographically relevant], which we all thought was compulsory with such media stories.

Rachel - sorry if we have fun here. You are perfectly entitled to ask such things on this page. Reducing power is common shortly after departure to avoid noise for those on the ground. I don't know Ibiza, but looking at the charts for it, if they were taking off to the east (anyone know if LEIB were on 06 this morning ?) then I can imagine there would be a procedure to minimise noise over the town. Depending on where you are sat in the aircraft, the reduction in noise can be most noticeable, as can the change in aircraft attitude that goes with it. Be assured this is all normal.

Leeds/Bradford is a well-known "thumper", the airport is the highest above sea level in the whole of the UK, and the runway is at right-angles to the prevailing wind, which can make things seem a bit wobbly although quite standard. As you were on Jet2 and this is home base they are doubtless used to it.

Flaps do not deploy assymetric between sides. There are a range of mechanical interlocks to prevent this, even if the operating mechanism were to fail. You would be amazed what clever machinery aeronautical design engineers put under the skin of an aircraft to make sure it all works right every time.

Be assured engineers do look into every engine, on every turnround, and the pilots quite often do as well. This applies to all the other significant bits as well - someone would have done the same all round at Ibiza before you left.

Hope you enjoyed the clubs of Ibiza :) Thank aviation for whizzing you there and back so efficiently and cheaply, and in complete safety.