700 pilots in the next 18 months!

That'll be interesting considering their recruitment woes at the moment:confused:

where do you read this?

Damm.....I wanted to be the first to post this one but I couldn't stop laughing..:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

tz

Emirates recruits pilots at full throttle (http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100603100035)
Whether to refresh faces or not, they are on the road...
Last week they said they were driving down the road to Abu Dhabi in a bid to recruit additional cabin crew to help service the company’s expanding fleet and route network.
The move Etihad announced, it will no longer provide accommodation allowances to new staff choosing to live outside Abu Dhabi, may well contribute for some shifting of minds.

Emirates to recruit 700 pilots in next 18 months (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/03/342734/emirates-to-recruit-700-pilots-in-next-18-months.html)

anyone know what hrs the present applicants getting interviews have...?

regional jets taken into account...?

They r so desperate, if you have hours on a broom they will take that into account as well.

What about DEC?

They r so desperate, if you have hours on a broom they will take that into account as well.

Does it matter if they are synthetic or natural corn/straw bristles? :)

Scary thought that the mother-in-law could apply :\

Hi!

No DEC....yet. QR has been hiring DECs for about 6 mos.

RJs...it is hard to tell. It appears that the mins are changing so fast, different guys have been told different things...such as RJ FOs interviewing, but other RJ capts being told their planes are too small....it is VERY difficult to figure out what times are good or not good!

cliff
LFW

If this study is even half true, recruitment is not going to get any easier for any airline.

Maybe there will be industry wide improvement in working conditions as competition for our services intensifies.

Of course, I may just be in a delusional state due to fatigue. :ouch:

Comment: Predicted pilot and engineer demand is unsustainable (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/15/343188/comment-predicted-pilot-and-engineer-demand-is-unsustainable.html)

Scary thought that the mother-in-law could apply http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wibble.gif


You could move in with your mother-in-law and cash in on one accomodation allowance! :ok:

What accommodation allowance?

The Arabs are an interesting bunch.


"We need more guys, so let's stir interest!"

"You're right, tell them they can't have an housing allowance and they have to sleep under our roof. They'll love the building work next door, it'll help them sleep."

Emirates to recruit 700 pilots in next 18 months (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/03/342734/emirates-to-recruit-700-pilots-in-next-18-months.html)

:ok:

Also heard that the number 700 came from HR and that flt ops says it is only 200--though that is a rumor and, as always, who knows which one to believe.

Flight Global attributes the quote to the senior vice president of flight operations. Who knows. But given that the outstanding Boeing orders, if all else remains equal, would amount to the need for an extra 250 pilots then I think the 700 has some credibility.

Hi Guys

Dont shoot me down for asking but projecting ahead a little if I do decide to apply to a ME carrier such as Emirates is it possible to aquire a part time roster ie two weeks on two weeks off and maybe commute from either Aus or Uk.

Thanks.

Hi!

It is not possible to commute to EK at this time.

cliff
LFW

Thanks APTCLIFF

But is there a part time working policy within Emirates ?

Many Thanks

SEAMASTER.

No :ugh::ugh:

And add to the Pilot, FA & Engineer numbers required for the forth coming A/C TC wants a 10% reduction in wages across the whole company, Managers Bonus's the exception.

That should attract some quality & quantity of course

I applied at Emirates and they wrote back and said to apply again when I get 4000 hours. I currently have 3800 hours and PIC types in Falcon 2000 and King Air 350. Tubine time is about 2300 hours. I currently fly left seat in Saudi Arabia for Medevac. Emirates didn't seem to interested in talking to me.

1 wing nut - Get the 4000 hrs then they will probably talk to you. :ugh:

A380 Driver,

I have applied to EK on line and went to their UK roadshow, but I am about 50 hours short of the 2500 hrs Jet Time required. I have also contacted one of the recruitment Captains to keep him posted, and I have leave coming up in August, do you think that EK will be recruiting for the foreseeable future, where I could arrange an interview date at the end of August?. Im on the737 by the way.

Many thanks.

si jet,

Yes we will be recruiting for the next few years at least.

Thanks. What fleet are you on and do you think the EK will order anymore aircraft at the Farnborough Air show? Thanks again I'll submit my on line application in the next days and see what happens.

hi

1)is the new recruitment drive (700 in 18 months) only aimed at covering the new deliveries or is it also happening because of the rostering issues?

2) after searching previous discussions, I read that 777 guys fly around 90 hours with 13-15 days off
A330 guys fly around 80 hours with 8-10 days off / month. still true?

3) I read that Al barsha was the location where single pilots get their housing. is that still the case ? and is it the only option?

many thanks

si jet,

Yes, rumors of a Boeing order at Farnbourough.

Savi,

1) both

2) pretty much true but recognized as unsustainable. Aim is for around 85 hrs/mth, part of the reason for all the recruiting!

3) Singletons get put in any one of a number of Apartment complexes throughout the city- basically depends on what is available. No choice, you get put where you get put. I believe there is some scope to move once established on an opportunity basis, for those living in Apartments (MUCH harder for Villa residents)

thanks wiz

My roster just came out (airbus) with me working to 1 minute (!) short of the 92 hour productivity target! Am already pretty well sh***ed from the current months flying!

For your info, too - the policy here is that sick days are counted as days off towards roster legality!

Enjoy!

captainsmiffym,

if you don t mind giving more details.

1 how many days off do you have?

2) rough estimate of the turnarounds/ layover ratio?

3 how many turnarounds nights to india, if any?

thanks

2nd top bid , airbus, 92 hrs 10 days off 1 Night india turn the rest good, with out the india turn great roster it would look like 12 days off and 84 hrs, im thinking it was stuck in there just to piss me off

thank you Fatbus. any other feedbacks will be welcome guys. 777 and 330 thanks again.

....Saviboy...have I feeling we might know each other?!

The 91:59 roster comprises 2 australian trips and 3 night turnarounds to the indian sub-continent plus an african tour. Oh and some groundschooling thrown in for good measure. There are also 9 days off, a reserve day, an available day and some rest days in order to ensure that I know which side is up for my next trip. (Just realised that any more utilisation of me on the reserve days/available days means overtime! Trouble is, the body will be too knackered to enjoy it and 'er indoors will spend it!). That is the current reality of mixed-fleet flying here on the airbus....

thanks again for the feedback guys. captainsmiffy, check your pm

1)is the new recruitment drive (700 in 18 months) only aimed at covering the new deliveries or is it also happening because of the rostering issues?

2) after searching previous discussions, I read that 777 guys fly around 90 hours with 13-15 days off
A330 guys fly around 80 hours with 8-10 days off / month. still true?

3) I read that Al barsha was the location where single pilots get their housing. is that still the case ? and is it the only option?

(1) A bit misleading but DVSP Flt Ops says "700 INCLUDING 250 already taken in last 12 months"

(2) My 777 roster generally between 80-90 hours for the last 12 months, with 12-15 TRUE days off, plus a few rest days (before v.early and after v.late flts).

I bid for 2-3 day trips away so don't get too many days off in a row but it suits me fine. If I wanted longer I'd bid for specific days off not specific trips.

Tend to get a lot of 3am departures on lower bid months but nott too bad as long as they are trips and not night-turnarounds to India.

Probably had about 5 night turns this year so far. Not too bad.

No roster is commutable and the Company doesn't want you to anyway. That's set in stone and a fact of life. Don't come here hoping to work something out in that regard; it's like that - that's just the way it is.

(3) Single (unmarried even with gf) guys get 2 bed apts anywhere south of the creek. I joined almost 2 years ago as a married F.O. and cheekily asked for an apartment with balcony near Jumeirah Beach - which I got! - You dob;t ask you don't get!... No shortage of accommodation anymore but if I have one piece of advice it would be to ask for somewhere owned by Sheikh Ahmed / Emirates, as any other 'leased' building will only have a 12 month renegotiated lease which means you can get kicked out with only a few weeks notice - yes it has and will continue to happen. TECOM Bldg and Garden apts are examples of EK owned properties - very nice but very quiet, and definitely not the party central that some f/o's may be looking for...

And add to the Pilot, FA & Engineer numbers required for the forth coming A/C TC wants a 10% reduction in wages across the whole company, Managers Bonus's the exception.

Moosejaw,
That's pretty big news if indeed true considering the morale company wide. Can you shed some light on that statement? What is the reliability of your source?

Applied yesterday and got an email back saying i don't have 2000 hrs jet over 30tonnes. I have over 6000 hrs and am a captain on a 737 but am not qualified for an FO? I think they will have a hard time getting enough guys.

Applied yesterday and got an email back saying i don't have 2000 hrs jet over 30tonnes. I have over 6000 hrs and am a captain on a 737 but am not qualified for an FO? I think they will have a hard time getting enough guys.


I know what you mean. Surely they should be calling you for DEC on their space shuttle fleet!! :rolleyes:

Here are the minimum quals, for F/O straight from the EK recruitment website for those that can't be bothered to check before they apply and then get bounced back.

- A minimum of 4000 hours total flying time (may include 25% P3 or FEO time to a max of 500 hr).
- A minimum of 2000 hours multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft (P3 time cannot be used for this requirement).
OR
- A minimum of 2500 hours total flying time on a modern commercial multi-engine, multi-crew aircraft jet. (P3 time cannot be used for this requirement)

- Must hold a valid ICAO ATPL
- English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension); ICAO English level (4 or above)
- Experience commensurate with age
- Type rated would be advantage

Yes they will struggle to get qualified people when they do I'm sure something will change

Yes they will struggle to get qualified people when they do I'm sure something will change

The easiest and fastest way to change is to get rid of some pathetic and incompetent sadists in operational management and to stick to contracts.
There are enough qualified pilots who would apply if this materializes.
The other way is to lower the requirements and to continue the punitive leadership.

Now what do you think would be the cheaper and safer way in the long run???

They were having difficulty getting pilots about 3 years ago. Thats when the large number of RJ types came and proved to be costly( overall additional training cost and failures). Someone mentioned RJ pilots were a dime a dozen meaning lots of them looking. The 2500 hr thing is for 320/73ng that were being interviewed at EY and EK has decided to look at those pilots as well. Also keep in mind that the hours requirements are Min's and at the moment the intake are generally well over that and not RJ.Sorry but those are the facts. 680 between now and Mar of 2012 and a whole bunch more after that. Keep updating is all I can recommend. Also make sure you really want to make the move, more and more pilots that have been here for 7 or more years are looking at getting out,reason don't like Dubai and dealing with the locals, as well as EK working you to the grave and they don't care.

Guys there is a restriction on applicants without time on a/c over 30t.

For my 2 cents, This place is not worth coming to until the rosters change back to what they were. I can't plan my life at all anymore. That is the fact of the matter. Nobody minds working hard as long as they can get away from it all.

Every conversation I have each time I go to work is about poor rosters and the lack of freedom we have to do mutual swaps without a long list of rules to prevent us actually getting SOME sort of roster WE want.

Don't jump the gun guys. You will regret it.

After reading this im definately applying !!!!!:}:}:}

Spanish First Officer, Santiago Andres, said: "Working as a First Officer with Emirates (http://www.pprune.org/cm/profile.cfm/cid759385) , has been extremely rewarding. The airline has an extensive route network which has enabled me to fly all over the world. I'm so pleased that my home country of Spain will become an Emirates (http://www.pprune.org/cm/profile.cfm/cid759385) passenger route from 1st August. I also really like living in Dubai - the lifestyle is something very special.":D

I suspect also their bonding policy doesn't help them much in attracting pilots with wide body experience. Why should someone with experience on 777 or 330/340 apply to EK and be bonded for 3 years, while he can go to etihad and be free to leave any time? Are they offering much better conditions than EY?:confused:

Oh the lifestyle is "special" alright. Almost "unique" in fact in that no other long haul airline would inflict rosters like ours on people and expect them to stay!

July roster was the end of the bidding system for me. I received my roster and it just makes no sense. Just plainly disregarded my requests and optimized until the rosters were made. Such a proof of disrespect and especially desperation. We had good days here, but it is going downhill at such a rate right now that i am seriously getting worried about this airline. Been here 10 years +++ and thrust me what I see around me these days is just plain worrying. I did my time in this place, i need to stay a bit longer, but i feel sorry for those new joiners and what they will have to go through in the future. Countdown is on for me to leave this place. I enjoyed the good years. But today, what a change. You might be young, you might be out of a job, but only one advise, don't come here with high expectations you will be disappointed. One of the biggest change in Dubai is the other people in the city and how we are perceived. People from places worst than here know that they can basically get away with murder. No respect and frustrations every day. Going to get milk at the corner supermarket is now a mission. Not a fun mission at all. I can't stand the place. Yes i will go as soon as i can. I wish it would be today. But i'll just tolerate the place for a little longer and then leave. Good luck if you come. At this point it is just a job, and not a good one. It's not a lifetime carrier for sure.

ekpilot, 10 years+++ is pretty good man and i take my hat off to you. What I would like to ask you is where on earth right now is a good place to work as an airline pilot? Aviation unfortunately might never return to where it was 10 years ago, and I've kind of accepted that. EK is a very professional airline and have come along way in just 25 years. I just hope none of my kids grow up and tell me they want to become pilots...

Well exactly, it's hard everywhere to be in aviation, so better be in a place where you want to be if you are to struggle. Personally Dubai is getting a harder and harder place to live for many reasons. The main one is EK. The rest is up to you. As for your kids, it would be a very wise advise to tell them to find a different career.

I suppose 10 years is a lot of time over here and it doesn't get any easier when Dubai becomes the source of your problems. All i can say is that EK are lucky to have guys like you and it would be in their benefit if you found a way to give in a few more years.

I agree with ekpilot. Having done 10 years too, everything in DXB and EK is a nightmare. With almost everyone doing 90+ hours, there is virtually no leeway for roster swaps. Guys who want say a long SYD don't get them and guys that don't want it get it. To to then swap that 9 day trip. It's virtually impossible.

Like most guys the next best job comes up and I'm out of here!

Good luck to anyone wanting to come here. You'll need it!

Regarding trip swaps, the change to getting paid for actual flights flown rather than original rostered block hours seemed to be a change for the better. However, as usual, the benefit is for the company not the pilot group, as it means less swaps for them to manage.

This is because we are worked up against the productivity threshold all time now. So, unless you can organise a swap that keeps the hours close to the original, it will be denied due to one of you going into productivity. Also, due to this, you can almost forget swapping a trip for days off, unless you can balance the hours at some other time during the month.

Inedible 5 day old soggy rolls and sandwiches on departure dxb.

Chicken, fish or beef enroute meal.

A desert that hasn't changed for more than 12 months.

Allowances at the other end that mean I subsidise the rostered overnights.

BMI coming down!

They're gonna have no problem finding HORDES of US regional guys. They'll do anything to take pictures with foreign FAs and post them on their facebook page.

Wouldn't other bases help our problems??? It really would help mine.:ok: I have heard the reasons for not doing it but with the need for new guys what do you guys think?

Taylor,

The situation at the moment is nowhere near as critical as it was three years ago. We were probably about six months away from MAJOR pay increases and a serious look at basings, as EK simply had no-one to recruit. Oil spiking at $148 and then the GCC took care of that!

It might be getting challenging at the moment, but they are still filling courses with qualified pilots.

Give it a year or two, and, if for once, nothing happens to put the industry back on it's arse (think 9/11, SARS, Desert Storm, '92 recession etc. etc.) MAYBE they'll have to look at bases, but we aren't even close at the moment.

Yep, that's what I thought too. I just think with the huge number of planes on order maybe, keeping my fingers crossed, it will happen before I leave. Of course with the new airport just down the street and/or the new terminal coming up who knows what is in store. Lets hope it is good for all of us.

Fly safe and see you on line!

Emirates management, if you are reading this, I'll fly for you! My terms are:

1. CX A-scale equivalent. You will have to pay that to attract crew; just as my current airline once had to.

2. Left seat A-380. Like me, there are lots of Airbus wide-body qualified pilots about, and you have a lot of A380's coming that you have to crew quickly and efficiently, have you not?

3. MEL base. Previous management of my current Asian airline once stated 'basings will never happen'; now I'm celebrating my fourth year based in Australia. It works well, the based pilots are productive 'happy campers', the company saves a fortune on housing and other allowances and there is a 'pool' of reserves at the major outports. Get over it: Dubai just doesn't 'cut it' as a place for most Westerners to live by choice.

4. Month on/month off roster. If you take care of your older pilots, you may get a few more years of service out of them and keep all those new aircraft flying out of that huge new airport you are building. My current company does not offer that, therefore that would be the main inducement for me and many other experienced wide-body Airbus pilots around the world to offer to help crew all those airframes that your company has ordered.

Of course, you will offer a similar package to your current pilots to improve morale and retain their services. How many runways are there going to be at the new airport again?

Please PM me when the aforementioned jets start arriving!

Yours in anticipation,

Captain Dart

Stand by your phone Cap Dart, Emirates will be calling you shortly for employment........ no, really they will.:E


(note- I am being sarcastic for the humorless masses out there)

So was I ;). However, many a true word is said in jest!

I'll enable my PM's when those new jets start arriving!

P.S. I would like a really nice hotel for those Dubai layovers.

hello again. Emirates will be receving lots of b777 and consequently I believe recruitment is about 70-80% geared towards that fleet.
If I can get an interview it would probably mean a 2011 joining date. what are the deliveries plan for this year in terms of aircraft type. I m trying to figure out on what A/c type will the majority of the hiring be done in 2011
Thank you

Saviboy,

Long term the Boeing will not be the expansion fleet... for the moment outstanding FIRM orders:

B773: 18 to come after April 2011.
B772F: 7 , not sure when...

A380: 80 to come (1 a month for the next 7 years)
A350: 70 to come ( first ones in 2014 officially, probably more like 2015)

Where do you think the expansion will be... A or B ?

There might however be me some extra orders for 777 in upcoming Farnborough airshow.

A380: 80 to come (1 a month for the next 7 years)


all I can say is f***, where are they going to get the drivers ????

Didn't you ask yourself occasionally what is going on at DUBIOTECH? :cool:

Captain Dart,

Sure! Left seat A380 at Emirates, based in MEL, month on/month off, and a Cathay paycheck. For good measure, they will throw in disease-free hookers for every overnight, roll out red carpet for you prior to every flight, and give you two servants to attend to your every needs. Your royal highness........... :rolleyes:

Get off your high horse, seriously.

I am currently flying for a regional in the USA and really interested in joining Emirates.
I currently have about 4500 hours with 3500 hours jet and 1500 hours PIC jet.
But all this time is RJ time, and i am hearing different things regarding the validity of the RJ as Emirates requirement.
Anyone here knows if Emirates will look at you with CRJ time or not?

Thanks for the help, and what about about Eithad and Qatar, are those also interesting choice in the middle east.

A380: 80 to come (1 a month for the next 7 years)
A350: 70 to come ( first ones in 2014 officially, probably more like 2015)


Well thats the publicity - we will see how many actually turn up ;)

Hi!

Another poster said -777, 747-8 and -330 at Farnbourough.
According to the website, RJ time is OK. BUT, in real life, I don't think any one person at EK could tell you what types of time meets the minimums.

cliff
LFW

The DEC situation at Emirates has changed.

Firstly (stooping to your flame), the arrogance of suggesting you could come to the left seat ahead of a lot of 380 qualified FO's at EK - evokes a chuckle. Dont count on it.

Secondly, many who came in the past were willing to live with DEC's - as once your three years were up - then you would get the call. This has changed as a result of the FCI whereby the co. mandates a certain amount of time in EK aircraft. Many guys with ample heavy time (767, 747, MD11, 757, A300, A310, KC-10/135, C.17 etc) and fast jet time (fighter guys) are considered inexperienced as they do not meet the the co rule of 3000 EK type (according to the co the 744 is not an EK type because they are currently operated by Atlas, neither is the 310 because we dumped them).

So let me give you a couple of random examples. We have guys here with 7-10 years on MD-11's and 747's with other carriers who's numbers are up but no upgrade because of EK time or even better a guy who has spent three years on EK A310's within the operation who is back to scratch with hour one on the 330/777 - not to mention the FO sim instructor's who, by deciding to spend a lot of time in the sim (does'nt count) instructing, - are now screwed.

So, in light of the above, throw into the mix some arrogant DEC (cue the dick from MEL who wants the month on/off & the A scale)) and you have the potential for a very interesting dynamic.

That said - if you want to give it a shot - then go for it. You never know, you might find a cadet who will have a beer with you.

f.

fliion,

Generally speaking, a pretty stupid post.

For instance:-

Secondly, many who came in the past were willing to live with DEC's

Ok, so what exactly would NOT being willing to "Live" with DECS look like? Handbags at dawn? Refusing to raise the gear?

Then this:-

So, in light of the above, throw into the mix some arrogant DEC (cue the dick from MEL who wants the month on/off & the A scale)) and you have the potential for a very interesting dynamic.


Ermm...is it just me or has anyone else noticed that guys can't tell when a post is written with a large amount of tongue in cheek?


And what exactly would this "Interesting Dynamic" look like? Seems to me like you are suggesting you would try and make the workplace unpleasant for someone if you didn't agree with the terms under which he was employed- no doubt with negative effects on flight safety- and you're one of the exemplary professionals the company should be promoting?

The company has sufficient qualified FOs and it should promote them. The hours policy is a rude, stupid reactionary move that is detrimental to a lot of good guys, the SFIs being a classic case.

But if you somehow think the company wouldn't hire DECs if it felt the need because people like you might not "Live with it", you've been out in the sun to long!!

Wif,

Settle down my little lass.

Firstly, I did not mention that I would do anything untoward. You mentioned handbags - not me. The only action I referred to was outside the flight deck i.e. sharing a beer with with a guy who joined five weeks ago as you roll into your fifth year of the right seat.

Secondly by suggesting an interesting dynamic - not saying anything other than there would be anger at the co. which as we have seen in the last 18 mos has had a negative effect on retaining people and more importantly on recruiting people.

Thirdly, nothing stupid about the post - obviously anyone would be naive if they did not know the FO's general concerns. Just ask the any handfull their view on DECs as a replacement for the guys who cannot progress purely because of the FCI...

Fourthly, the co are very sensitive to recruiting DECs in the post FCI environment. Thats a fact (straight from the HR horses mouth)

Stop taking a post out of context and stirring it when its not there

yawn

f

Don't be surprised when EK employs DEC's that don't have the reqirements they demand of their FO's.
When DEC's were last employed, AAR stated that these captains would have 3000 hours on EK types, they then went and employed A320 and B737 qualified captains.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Fliion,

The only thing that I will say is that the company could give a flip about the general concerns of the FO's affected by the FCI. I don't agree with DEC's, and HR might be saying that no DEC's are coming, but you would be stupid and naive if you weren't thinking that Flight Ops Management is not thinking about DEC's and that they are not on the table behind closed doors. They could care less what FO's think or feel. They care about bottom dollar, period. Cheaper to train a DEC than to upgrade an FO. Again, not that I agree with it. But don't keep your head in the sand thinking that they won't hire DEC's because of "FO Feelings". We frankly have a staffing problem. 700 new hires in 18 months is going to be a stretch. They have already said they are outsourcing training to new hires, when just two years ago, they said no more outsourced training. They've said no DEC's, well, just like everything else, change fits their needs, not ours. To say they won't hire DEC's because HR is saying it and that FO's will revolt (or whatever the terminology) is just ignorant. They will do what they need to do to keep planes moving. I would hope it would be to change the FCI to upgrade FO's here, but don't count on it. HR doesn't run the flight line or the staffing. They are given directions by Flt Ops and Upper Management to say we need "XXX" pilots, go get them. Flt Ops tells them DEC's next month, they will get DEC's next month.

fliion,

My post may have been a bit harsh. I won't delete it to maintain context, but I do appologise for its tone.

I will say two things to you though:-

Firstly, for Pete sake take Captain Darts post with the humour and irony with which it was intended.

Secondly, even if you would refuse to have a beer with a DEC, that is being unneccessarily churlish and mis-directed.

Once you have a Command. Will you undertake here and now to never take a job anywhere else as a DEC, if ANY of the FOs at that company feel they deserve the Command ahead of you?

The company would be wrong to take DECs with the number of qualified FOs available. But if they did, that is THEIR fault, not the fault of someone simply taking a position offered to them.

The company may owe you some loyalty, the rest of the world doesn't!

Bring the minimums down to 1500-2000TT with an ATPL and they will fill the positions no problem. Which will also solve most of the problems going on right now.

I know maybe a lot of you more experienced guys out there think this is a joke and a bit rash but it will work and there are tons of unemployed pilots around this experience mark who can do the job just as well with sufficient aeronautical experience as the candidates at the 4000/2000 mark.

Laugh or not, I doubt the problem will be resolved until management take a more drastic look on recruitment minima

I now await the abuse......

Fred,

Never said they (HR & mgt) were'nt thinking about it...I said they were sensitive to it. Big difference.

Wiz,

Childish & churlish?...or perhaps better to head off a potential conversation that neither party agree on and that could get out of hand.

Other than that...all good points. We shall see.

f

Keep the minimums at 4000-5000 hrs however give some credit to guys with a lot of heavy turbo-prop time. You will find plenty of Canadian with this type of time.

The hours policy is a rude, stupid reactionary move that is detrimental to .........the SFIs

Sorry but the SFIs made their bed and now get to lay in it. They undermined the established body of trainers who'd been screwed (surprise, surprise) by the company on conditions. Does that sound familiar?

Instead of thinking about developing themselves as FOs, they sat in the sim pushing buttons - for LESS money than the training captains. They helped the company screw the old hands.

No one I know feels sorry for them.

What a divided lot the EK pilots are.

Instead of thinking about developing themselves as FOs, they sat in the sim pushing buttons

Some of the best training I have had has come from F/O trainers, from what I have seen is that they have come here from developed airlines with a developed training program. As far as I am concerned, they are developed F/O's when they arrive here at EK. Some of these established body of trainers and their big stick approach to training needs to be gone.

for LESS money than the training captains.

That's because they are F/O's.

What happens if after successful interview you decide not to take the job right away? Let's say one would like to start to work there in a year or two. Does it make sense to join the interview now and let them know or is it better to postpone the interview?

Postpone the interview, they are on to guys saying they can be here in 3wks, then at the interview changing it to 3mths.

Hello all, I'm wondering if there some of you that may be able to offer some advice re EK or indeed if anyone could point me in the right direction. I'm presently out of work (18mths!) and was a low PIC houred captain in his thirties on an old 130 seat non efis jet. I have 4500 hrs total, of which 4300 are on commercial jet types >45000 tonnes MTOW. I havent flown since my employer became insolvent despite my best efforts. I refuse to do the P2F line training scheme route as I still have some morals (amazing after being in this game for a while!)

EK appeared to be interested but said as I haven't flown within the last 12mths they can't proceed with my application. I can't tell you how frustrating this is, and their solution was effectively to get some commercial time then I'd be set. Ok so to get a job I have to get a job, seems tough but I will do it.... hopefully sooner rather than later the bills don't get any cheaper!

EK said the recency requirement was a DCAA thing which I can believe, but I sent an email to the UAE DCAA asking for clarification and they referred me back to EK?? It seems entirely bizarre to me when I would have to do a B777 (presumably) type rating training course with the sponsoring airline. Whats the real deal here?

I don't want to come across as bitter, this msg isn't written in that tone or context. I would fly virtually anywhere given the chance, but the industry seems a little on its head right now. Experienced non rated guys are being passed over for P2Fs or 250hr guys, someone with 150hrs Efis gets more recognition than someone with a few thousand hrs on a mid-sized analogue jet where you can argue the workload is perceivably higher.

I know my time will come and I look forward to the day when I can get back to my career.

Jimbo, I feel for you!

I think if you were being honest with yourself though, you may well find the selection (interview) simulator very tough being so un-current, and having only recently flown analogue aircraft (B737-2?).

Being thrown into an all glass B777 sim, you may well struggle to pass (less than 50% of candidates make it through the simulator part of selection) as the odds are stacked against you??

I'm not questioning your ability or experience, just pointing out that the selection process isn't a given ie you'd have to pass that before you got anywhere near the B777/A330 type rating.

If you are serious about joining EK, give yourself the best possible chance of passing....... All you need is SOME commercial Airline flying within 12 months of joining. Offer to fly the line free of charge for a month for an airline which has your type, then come to EK??

In any case, good luck :ok:

Thats my trouble, my type is no longer flying in Europe due to its age.

Looks like i'm off to the desert in that case, anyone have a spare pair of kevlar pants?

Thanks for your kind words Oblaaspop.

Jimbo Just a little message to let you know that there is no more worries for you, as you will quickly have an opportunity with Ryanair...They might have quickly a need of experienced pilots. During the last 2 weeks every single first officer above 2500hrs who came my way told me they have applied to Ek...I think that soon Fr management will bite their fingers to have slash the senior FO salary. And to be honest for a FR Fo(who has to bring his water to the cockpit and fly more than 95 hrs a month) Emirates is still a paradise...

Good luck Jimbo

Hi!

A couple of points:

Jimbo: U need to be (jet) current within 12 months before the interview, and before you start class. Some guys were in the pool for a while, went over 12 mos current and were dropped from the pool (of course, EK could change this policy...). There ARE jobs in Africa, too.

Jet Time Only???
Read of a guy will all turboprop/no jet time recently hired at EK....that is NOT what the website says, but there seems to be a lot of that going around.

DEC: DECs actually cost the company MORE MONEY in the long run. It may save them the training cost of the FO to Capt and his replacement, and they may be all that EK cares about at that point. BUT, in the long run, it will cost them more money than it saves. Can they see long-term cost/benefits? I don't know. A LOT of US airline mgmt only looks short-term.

cliff
LFW

DECs actually cost the company MORE MONEY in the long run.

And this is because???

Hi!

When you hire one DEC, you only have one training event, so you save the money from that one event.

When you hire DECS, for each DEC hired, how many FOs quit? For each that quits, you need recruiting, hiring, and training costs. How many Capts will leave early, because they see that if they company will not treat the FOs well, they know THEY may not be treated well? For each one that leaves, that is two training events, plus the recruiting cost for a new FO (or a new DEC, if they replace them with a DEC).

Then, this information is conveyed to all of us, here on the web. How many "good" candidates don't apply, or don't complete the hiring process, because of the DEC situation? This causes the recruiting and training costs to go up.

How many current pilots get upset when they here about the DECS? IF they have roster time available in the future, how many will NOT volunteer to do overtime when they could, because of negative feelings with the company.

Etc., etc. There are a LOT of hidden costs, when you start messing with your employees.

cliff
LFW

for each DEC hired, how many FOs quit?

You are talking about costs associated with an unhappy pilot group, not necessarily due to DEC's because there are many companies that hire DEC's and these things you talk about don't always happen. It is true that attrition (for any number of reasons) cost the company more money in the long run but management seems to believe it is just the price of doing business, good luck trying to make them see it otherwise:ugh:

Nice to hear from ya Cliff:)

I'm afraid that's wishful thinking, atpcliff. Was there any great exodus when EK was taking DECS, even when there were FOs qualified for upgrade?

DECs or not is decided based on cost, not happy/unhappy pilots.

My understanding is the failure rate for DECs in the past has been higher than new F/Os and upgrades. The additional expenses incurred because of this makes DECs not as cost effective as they would appear on the surface.

Whether the curent policy changes will be dictated by the latest cost/benefit anaysis by the company. With the company's best financial interests as the overriding factor, of course.

I think that successful integration of any DEC, and pass/failure of training is more a function of the individual and what level of relative experience they posses.

Any DEC with say 3000hrs CMD on B777 or A330/340 flying internationally should have no problem.

Cav.

JimbosJet,

Many licencing authorities require an ATPL holder to have flown ( 20+ hours ) during the last six months prior to application and usually on an aircraft of 20Tonnes+ to recognise an ATPL/ATR to be valid.

I know nothing about the aviation authorities in the Middle East but it has come up more than once with the S.E. Asia/ Far East authorities.

Good luck.

after reading this thread, recruiting procedure, roster system and training at EK, I think WY have better recruiting system lead by a very experience local TRE ex F/O from GF and world wide experience been upgrade as Capt at WY (only).:\

the only airline (if is WY airline..?) that can/approve to roster pilot for 3 consecutive or more night flying with turn around, due to safety reason.:ugh:

training departement, create a simulator training for Kathmandu flight by 4 leading TRI of company experience world wide, but they never been in Kathmandu before not even as tourist, result is the simulator training is not approved by their own authorities:D

but Oman Air will continue be a leading safe airlines in the region, one day we will beat Emirates....no worries....one day...???:yuk:

Sorry, three times I've read that and still it makes no sense whatsoever!

Anyone care to translate into plain English please? :confused:

Harry

I'm with you Harry, WTF???

Cav.

english not your mother language...???read 200x then you will understand like memory items:}

very simple that Oman Air are very low in all standard, just like circus company, and they call them self an airline, but if you are desparate pilot's just joint them:\

Thank you for the English lesson. Things have really changed since I was in High School.

Cav.

With Vaustralia slowly being merged into Virgin Blue and then gradually being phased out EK may get at least 50 pilot applications. Apparently some were previously from Emirates as well.

I think the number is probably closer to 5. Those who left the desert are in no hurry to go back. I think most would prefer to be an F/O on a 737.

I think most would prefer to be an F/O on a 737

At least you know your limitations 6100. A rare trait these days!!:rolleyes:

Yes you are qualified, but be careful what you wish for.

Cav.