Solo Hours and GFPT

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Hello - I'd like to know what would be considered exceptional for a student pilot in terms of flying hours before they are released to fly their first solo i.e. what are the min hours to do so and how many hours would be considered 'excellent achievement' for a student to go solo as well as achieve GFPT (shortest time due to aptitude and competence)?

Thanks.

[maverick22]

Are you nominating yourself for an award? It's not a competition, it's whether or not you are competent and safe. There is no minimum hours requirement for first solo, and for GFPT it is 20 hrs total including 5hrs solo. It all comes out in the wash at the end of the day

[hardNfast]

Go solo in 5 hours or less and expect the call from Top Gun!

Good Luck Maverick:ok:

[eocvictim]

Before this gets out of hand, there is no min. There is no max but if its taking more than 25-30 hours you need to ask yourself as a student if the instructor is doing right by you or if you're putting in the effort.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I'm not a pilot nor am I training to be one - it was just a topic of conversation.

Thanks.

[Jabawocky]

Solo in around 12 hours is a good effort...........more important is to be safe and confident and comfortable!


Says he who just had his first C185 experience...........and first TW machine. :uhoh:

And lived :}.

Its not about hours........its about being safe.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I'd like to know what would be considered exceptional for a student pilot in terms of flying hours before they are released to fly their first solo

Solo on your first ever flight would be considered exceptional - right up there with Wilbur and Orville!

Dr :8

[wombat_keeper]

I think a lot of people have always wanted to know the answer to your question t_vasis !
Try asking one of the bright young men down at your local saussage factory school if you can check their log book to verify that they did indeed get their GFPT at the minimum hours that there promising everyone !!
:D

[Pin37]

I seem to remember back in the jurassic period when I did my fist solo (in powered aeroplanes) there was a minimum. I had some idea it used to be 10 hours, I think.

[YPJT]

I recall a guy who aparently flew with the precision of a Swiss watch from day one went solo in about 7 or 8 hrs. He was certainly an exception though, almost "robotic" as his instructor referred to him. He also went onto Aviation Corps flying Blackhawks.
Remember the GFPT is not mandatory under the syllabus, unless it is specified within the schools training ops manual.

Agree with what others are saying. It's not a race you will go solo, get your GFPT, pass your PPL, CPL, MECIR etc etc when you are ready and hopefully not before.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I recall a guy who aparently flew with the precision of a Swiss watch from day one went solo in about 7 or 8 hrs. He was certainly an exception though, almost "robotic" as his instructor referred to him. He also went onto Aviation Corps flying Blackhawks.

Oh come on guys!

Don't fall for the bull**** that is dished up by some training organisations these days.

Just happen to have log book #1 beside me:

28 Nov 1973, Gill Layt sent me solo at YBAF in C150 VH-DTE

7.5 hrs TT

That was regarded as "good going" but nothing exceptional. Plenty have soloed in less time.

Maybe too many hours are spent taxying these days!

However, it not about hours - its about when you are ready!

Dr :8

[holdmetight]

As many have said, it's about being ready more than anything else. Not to mention that for a first solo to happen, on the day you need a combination of factors in your favour too - calm winds, good vis, happy instructor, uncluttered circuit pattern, etc etc. You could end up doing an extra hour or two of dual circuits even after you are technically competent, just because you needed to wait for the "right conditions". I did my first solo after 18 hours, and I flew part-time at one of the real schools, not the sausage factories.

I think you the more frequently you train, the faster you become competent... especially during the pre-GFPT phase, where it is all about learning the skill of aircraft handling.

[Clearedtoreenter]

However, it not about hours - its about when you are ready!


Very true bur 'ready' is somewhat variable in different establishments. Some schools/instructors seem to have a more cautious definition of 'ready'.

What do some of you instructors look for when determining 'ready'?

E.g.

Good weather - crosswinds, cloud etc
Traffic - wait till there's at least 8 in the circuit all on different runways, going in different directions - Candem when the tower is closed (not that it ever is now :)) is a great place to for a first solo.
3 or more consistent dual circuits?
??

[The Green Goblin]

It would be pretty hard to go solo in those hours these days (7.5) when at least 20 mins of an hour lesson is spent transiting to and from a GAAP zone. Following airline style circuits (i.e way too bloody wide) you'd be lucky to get 6 touch and goes in an hour too. That was the most frustrating part of instructing, following clowns who insist on 3 mile circuits in a 172.

When I was instructing the usual seemed to be 15-20 hours with people more often than not in the high teens.

If I had my time again I would have gone to a small school in the country and believe I would have saved at least 30 hours on my CPL training. (exercises like doing 7 hour Mooney endorsements and all the other BS that is thrown at you tends to soak up a few resources)

[Homesick-Angel]

When I turned up for my first lesson in my ray ban aviators and leather jacket, they just threw me the keys and said "go for it Mav"

[VH-XXX]

Went solo in an RA Gazelle in 3.5 hours. Wasn't ready but instructor thought I was. Didn't crash and haven't crashed since so maybe he was right.

[Howard Hughes]

One would ask is it possible to cover the entire pre solo syllabus in 3.5 hours? Or even 7.5 hours? :eek:

Or am I just an underachiever with my 10.5 hours?;)

[Atlas Shrugged]

I flew with a bloke once who was based at Bankstown. He told me that he "had over 200hrs command". We departed straight out off 29R and he couldn't even find Hoxton Park.....I considered that to be exceptional!

[VH-XXX]

Suggest his hand was in control of a different "stick."

HH - therein lies the problem with some RA operations and their adherence to anything resembling uniformity and safety.

[Ando1Bar]

7 hours, 7.5 hours...

Well, while we're pulling our dicks out...

8 inches

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Well, while we're pulling our dicks out...8 inches

Ando, that's what happens when you keep tugging on it!

My post had nothing to do with that. A simple statement of fact!

I just happened to have my log book sitting on the desk beside my computer and thought it worth countering some of the misconceptions that are becoming GA dogma.

It will take you at least 20 hrs to go solo
You will need 500 hrs in command before stepping up to a C210
Your first high performance single endorsement will require 10 dual and 20 hrs ICUS
etc etc etcDr :8

[PA39]

Oh FTDK.....you're a bloody crack up mate. That was soooo good a reply!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

One would ask is it possible to cover the entire pre solo syllabus in 3.5 hours? Or even 7.5 hours?

Tis, as far as I know!

Nov 26 Operation of Controls - 35 min
Nov 26 S&L, Climb, Descent, Turning - 1 hr 55 min
Nov 27 Stalling - 45 min
Nov 27 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr
Nov 27 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr 30 min
Nov 28 Circuits and Landings - 45 min
Nov 28 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr
Nov 28 First Solo - 10 min ..........

.......... Dec 12 Restricted PPL test with one John Bally (ex Luftwaffe)

Dr :8

PS: If you want to get your GFPT in minimum time and cost, save up your $$ then find an instructor who will fly with you a couple of times a day!

[Ando1Bar]

Nice one Dr, I'll pay that. Wasn't rubbishing you though - comments were purely tounge in cheek.

Why does it take around double the time to go solo these days compared to 20-30 years ago? Perhaps the fear of litigation/coroner's inquests/CASA/TEM and not ticking all of the boxes puts the fear of god into instructor's and their CFI's heads. Add the requirements of airlines/universities etc supplying the students and the requirement to turn a profit, we seem to lose the plot sometimes.

The physical flying of aeroplanes hasn't changed. We're still flying around the same Cessnas in a lot of cases our fellow pilots 20-30 years ago went solo in, albeit a new paint scheme. In fact, one could argue going solo in a DH82 60+ years ago is far more challenging than a 172.

I've instructed at both the smaller schools and the larger 'airline' training organisations and the time to go solo was very similiar. The mindset amonst instructors these days is not to send the student up while there's the possibility they're 'under done'.

[Pin37]

Have to agree with you Doc, pulled out the old logbook and found that my first solo was 7.7 Hrs despite my earlier memory of 10Hrs min.

[Howard Hughes]

Tis, as far as I know!

Nov 26 Operation of Controls - 35 min
Nov 26 S&L, Climb, Descent, Turning - 1 hr 55 min
Nov 27 Stalling - 45 min
Nov 27 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr
Nov 27 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr 30 min
Nov 28 Circuits and Landings - 45 min
Nov 28 Circuits and Landings - 1 hr
Nov 28 First Solo - 10 min ..........

Nice one Sir...:D

[InTraining]

Went solo in 1987 after 6.8 hours. RPPL at 30 hours.

I remember studying the BAK and PPL books for about a week before my first flight and spent time at the aero club with the instructors where a lot of techniques were learnt that were not in the books.

Mind you it did take my 21 years more to finally pass my PPL.

[john_tullamarine]

I suggest the answer is in an amalgam of the posts so far.

(a) do the theory bits before you get into the aeroplane so that the exams don't hold you up during the flying bits and you have a reasonable understanding of what it is you are trying to achieve in the aeroplane.

(b) learn the aeroplane drills off parrot fashion while sitting in the seat .. before your first flight .. ie be able to cardboard bomber your way around a circuit before you start. That way you know what it is that you are trying to get on top of ... and you don't waste time read and do from a cheat sheet for a simple aircraft ... I can still parrot off my Victa checklists 45 years or so later on down the track .. just cannot rub then out of the memory

If the school rabbits on about "that's not the way the airlines do it so we do it like the airlines" .. find another school.

(c) know the radio and airport procedures etc before your first flight if you are going to learn at a controlled aerodrome

(d) have a very experienced and competent instructor as your teacher and stick with the same one ! Both points, in my view, are sacrosanct for ab initio training. If you can, train at a school with instructors and systems which are a bit more flexible than those which adhere rigidly to the pre-ordained syllabus dogma.

(e) pick a reasonably non-busy airport or fly mid week and avoid the weekend frantics.

(f) have the resources to fly at least 5 days a week, and 1-1.5 hours morning and afternoon .. trust me, that will get you more than sweaty enough and knackered by the end of each day. In the real world, this means saving up in the bank account until you have enough and a bit left over for the initial target goal. It follows that you would prefer to learn during the better weather months so that you lose the absolute minimum time from your program due weather.

I was very fortunate to learn on an RAAF ATC flying scholarship. My particular course (RNSWAC at Bankstown in the mid-60s) of around 8-10 guys (as I recall) all (with the exception of one slow learner) went solo in 4-5 up to something well under 10 hours .... and the above bullet points all applied.

We also had a very politically incorrect instructor who took no nonsense from any of us and applied a rolled up newspaper not so gently to the back of the student's head when such was deemed useful to motivate student application. Be assured that there was a definite work ethic amongst the group or woebetide the miscreant who slackened off. All seemed to work just fine .. several ended up in airlines, a couple in the military, one (who happened to be a schoolmate of mine) became a sky pilot (not too sure how that came about but he did go to the top of the military side in that field as a Principal Air Chaplain).


On the other hand, if circumstances dictate that you have to spread your flying out over 6 months or more .. then expect a considerably longer time due, in the main, to having the need to relearn a lot of what you have forgotten over the past few weeks since your last flight .. just a fact of life and the learning process.

[Tee Emm]

Short story from ten years or more ago. Nauruan family on Nauru asked me to evaluate their 20 year old son for possible scholarship to CPL and eventually Air Nauru. Big tall young bloke with quiet personality and very well mannered.
He was very slow to complete basic exams. I got the impression he wasn't that interested. Started his ab-initio training at Wings Flying School at Essendon in a Warrior operating to Point Cook. I picked early morning (0700) when it was usually calm and no traffic.

To my utter surprise he was a brilliant natural pilot and even allowing for travel time Essendon to Point Cook and return, he went solo in just over four hours. He was faultless. Show him something once and he could replicate it perfectly. That included the first landing.

Yet there was a quiet boredom to his attitude and I got the impression he would rather be back on his island of Nauru fishing off the reef at Anabare Bay.

So over coffee at Essendon terminal the day of his solo, I asked him did he want to be a pilot? "Not really" he said. "Mum and dad wanted me to have a go and follow my brother who is an airline pilot - but I like fishing better". He never flew again.

I called him the Ace of Anabare Bay. And he certainly was. Good on you Robbie E.

[frigatebird]

Nice one Doc..!

I must have been training the junior instructor....having him practice his new skills..

Did the TIF and first 8 short flights in a month with the more senior locally based one, the last was one hour Stalling finishing at the 5 hours mark - then put with a junior instructor while the first one was away, who did the Stalling for an hour again, and Compass Errors as well as the C&L sessions for another 5 hours of his 6 hours, in the second month.
A check with the original senior one again, and sent solo......

Didn't have any other choice of schools or instructors, and what did I know at that stage anyway....:O

[havick]

Didn't realise it was a race..:yuk:

[Track5milefinal]

I was slack with the medical which prevented me going solo in 3 hours :}