Why not make ONE CARD to do it all?

[pall]

Forgive me for my stupidity but as I am about to pay $170 to renew my my AVID & a further similar fee for an ASIC; why not make ONE CARD to do both?:ugh:

[pall]

I have an AVID but my ASIC has expired. I will need to renew it. So why not make ONE CARD do both instead of two sets of fees. Or issue two cards for one fee by making the AVID security clearance compatible with the ASIC requirements.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

If you can get away with a four (or is it five) year AVID then why also get a two year ASIC?

I've been tempted to see if I could get away with an AVID in the past as it provides access to all the same places but for those requiring access for non-commercial operations... but I don't have the guts to use myself as a guinea pig to highlight the idiotic Regulation to a judge.

Any terrorist wanting to attack us at such high profile targets such as Ceduna, Coober Pedy, Halls Creek etc would (if they bothered at all) definately go for the AVID rather than the ASIC... especially after reading this post. :ugh:

FRQ CB

PS Just confirming that we're not talking about your Flight Crew Licence ID perhaps? These were issued over about a four month period between the introduction of a need for photographic licences and the introduction of the ASIC. Those of us lucky enough to gain a new licence in this period essentially paid almost double the price for our first ASIC (or at least to comply with the DOTARS Reg which introduced the ASIC). $20 off the price of our ASIC three months after essentially paying for our ASIC; gee DOTARS thanks heaps for you consideration.

[psycho joe]

While we're at it. Why not combine the AVID, ASIC, Terminal access cards, Pilot's licence, Driver's licence, medicare card, etc all on the one card. As it would be a uniquely Australian concept we could call it the AUSTRALIA CARD. :E

[PA39]

:ugh: The whole debacle on ASIC's etc is a bloody joke. Drive past most airports in Oz and you could land a rocket grenade through the cockpit with ease. I don't see the point in all this BS, you know, take your shoes off, take your belt off, take your pants off, take off your shirt....nice tits, walk through the xray machine, please come this way while i check you for explosives etc etc etc. The gates open and the bulls gone. Be honest ...how many times have you been asked for your ASIC since they have been a part of your life?? Personally for me...ZERO, NONE,NEVER and i've had one since they were first brainwaved. I went to buy a proverbial $100 hamburger at Bundaberg recently and forgot my ASIC.....left in the hangar where it belongs. Oh my God, i have committed the cardinal sin, will i be shot, will i be arrested, worst of all will i be asked to leave WITHOUT satisfying my appetite of a Bundy Aero Club Burger????? Straight through, no questions, no curious looks, Knobody gave a damn and it was GREAT and a it was a ......great hamburger !! Looked through a few hangars, spun the props and said farewell!!

[Mr. Hat]

Try carrying a different card for every airport you go to.

Bin Laden must have hated pilots. Kept a heap of other people in jobs.

[pall]

What got me started about this was a throw away line from CASA trainer at the YMMB GAAP-Class D Airspace seminar this month.

He said CASA has been suggesting to DOTARS (now The Aviation Security Branch Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government) that a single card could be utilised. Not sure of any details of this comment.

[Frank Arouet]

Why not make ONE CARD to do it all?

Your pilot licence is perpetual, but triggered by a medical. Also issued at a cost to you. Can you imagine those money grabbing grubs giving up three sources of income.

We already have one security clearance card and it's called an Australian Passport. So you can make that four.

If you happen to be an Ex Serviceman the whole ASIC concept is beneath contempt.

Remember the Australian Card that caused so much consternation. Well you can also now add a Commonwealth cross recorded drivers licence, Medicare Card, Tax File Number, Centrelink child support link, Pension card, Bank cross referencing, and a recently touted intent to have all Medical Records centrally available to "Big Brother".

When we are all forced to have ADSB, there will be another potential source of income and surveillance with the re-introduction of Air Nav Charges and all that will be left is for us all to have a microchip implant in our forehead.

WHY HAVE AN ASIC AT ALL?

Well, nobody fought against it and there were too many people and organisations fighting for a share of the profits.

As a postscript I must say that a few did fight for a combined AVID/ASIC, but were rolled by "APATHY"......:(

[VH-XXX]

Realise people if you have an ASIC you don't need an AVID, why combine two cards into one when you don't need one of them at all!

[pall]

So how does this work? I let my AVID expire at June 30 and apply for an ASIC and use that instead? I really don't need an AVID if I have an ASIC? Have I got this right?

[Ascend Charlie]

You have forgotten the most stupid part of all:

When you go to renew your ASIC (for which you had to produce a passport, drivers licence, police record, bank statements, and a letter from your Mum) they will not accept your old ASIC as any form of identification???:eek:

[PA39]

<Realise people if you have an ASIC you don't need an AVID, why combine two cards into one when you don't need one of them at all!>

No............ We don't need ANY of them AT ALL !!

[VH-XXX]

Pall, yes, you don't need an AVID if you have an ASIC. The ASIC is a higher category of identification. Personally I've never had an AVID. The main reason why you'd have an AVID versus ASIC is that you don't go to security controlled airfields and or you don't go over he blue line and the AVID is cheaper to maintain.

[kookabat]

Well, nobody fought against it

Disagree. It just didn't get us very far.

[Frank Arouet]

As a postscript I must say that a few did fight for a combined AVID/ASIC, but were rolled by "APATHY"......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

How did you fight it kookabat? And who is the "us" that didn't get far?

[Steve888]

You obviously don't get it, the ASIC's have worked. Since getting mine I have not been hijacked once.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Francis....I am still amazed no one has taken you on about your "attitude" toward security. Whilst the tools are already there, like all situations within our western society, they are not used against us because of a tenuous thread of convention. Tenuous, yes! All it takes is a complicent or indifferent opposition and it's law.

The urge to be seen to be doing something far outweighs the rights of a minority. ADS-B, like a radar/transponder and flightplan all in one, can be used to tally up the bill quite effectively. Just like the camera on a toll gantry. Drive around NSW and even your car is registerd under the SAFE-T-CAM gantries. The data is already there...it is the convention that prevents its misuse. Howard had his gun lobby. Rudd has his big tax on the mining industry..how it is sold to the complicent public dictates whether it lives or dies. Aviation has no clout..it is highly visible...and is a victim of the whim of bureaucracy. How else can a third rate health bureaucrat preside over a security issue that taxes every operator in the industry. We all have to take our Kero Bath to make society safe from parasites of terrorism...we do not matter!:ugh:

(too much time on my hands...damn wet days!)

[Frank Arouet]

I don't have an "attitude" toward security. I do have an "attitude" toward people using words like "safety" and "security" to make me look like a pirah when I am attacking what is just another bloody TAX.

they are not used against us because of a tenuous thread of convention.

Now we have an example of someone drinking their bathwater?

Abuses of power are common within the aviation community. Read The Phelan Papers for some outstanding examples.:(

[YPJT]

Please guys, arguing amongst yourselves here will do nothing except raise your blood pressure. You cannot expect legitimate complaints, concerns or identifying flawed security measures to be taken seriously when they are made no further than the anonymity of PPRUNE.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Francis. Correct you are...ASIC is a tax disguised as a measure to protect society. A piece of plastic that gurantees nothing.

However, I drew you to the means of applying that tax. Everything is already in place, yet, it is not used for that purpose. What stops a Federal Government from applying such measures?

What rights do we have that "are so essential that they must be insulated from the power of the majority"?

[desert goat]

Bloody amazing how the yanks manage to have a GA industry so much bigger than ours but with a tiny fraction of the bureaucratic horsesh!t such as this...

[OZBUSDRIVER]

ASIC is a national bastardisation of a localy issued ID system. I am even on this forum actually asking how to apply for one a long time prior to the mandate. I could see the need at some aerodromes...and to have this as a nationwide scheme and at such aerodromes as VRD (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/pending/ersa/FAC_YVRD_3-Jun-2010.pdf)??? Well....it does leave a lot for description on how stupidly farcical it has become.

[kookabat]

How did you fight it kookabat?

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/118273-we-will-slugged-another-200-new-casa-licence.html

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/154363-read-weep-folks.html

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/187430-heard-rumour-regarding-asics-post2075314.html#post2075314

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/159058-flight-crew-photo-id-fees-coming-2.html

And so on, and so on.

'We' was a reference to the number of other people on those threads who were also writing letters and who all, presumably, now have ASICs and AVIDs anyway.

[YPJT]

Taken from last post, p2 of the first link above.

I've signed the petition but I cringed a little at some of the comments. Some of them were shockers - poorly written, bad grammar, words misspelt, etc. Some looked like the ravings of loonies - the bureaucrats and pollies who see the list will have a field day! One look at some of those rants will convince them that the entire industry is a menace that should be shut down as soon as possible.

Just maybe that is part of the reason that industry professionals are given such little credence in relation to decisions made regarding aviation security.