Borrow or save

[MightyDucks]

Can anybody give me some info about how pilots pay for their training.

Do they get the full amount out on loan or just save up for it. I know its better to stay out of dept as much as possible but in my case some dept can't be avoided.

Also is it true that a bank in spain is giving out loans for pilot training to irish?

Cheers for any advice

[wheelbrace]

Sell your apartment, get the class I medical and then sell a kidney... the AME will never know at renewals!

Sorry to be flippant, but I am very jaded on this subject at the moment. Maybe a lung lobe next month...

[flyvirgin]

Work hard and save the money, dont get a loan, you have time on your side:ok:

[lander66]

My advice would be to work hard, make money any way you can (legally :hmm:) and do the training modular. This way you can either train as you work or work and save up the money for the total funding of your training, then quit your job, train, get your liscences and go back to work to earn money to stay current and perhaps save money for a type rating (looks like we are all going to need to pay for one ourselves).

Oh and I assume this Spanish bank is BBVA. These loans will have to be secured on your's or your parents' house (unfortunately for them). If you can't secure it, you won't get it. Getting one of these loans will put you in debt and if you can't find a job as a pilot within a few years of completing your training, you (or your parents) will have a problem unless you can find some other way of paying off the debts.

Did you by any chance go to the FLYER Exhibition in Ireland? That is where I first heard about the BBVA loans as well at the CTC stand (except I went to Heathrow last year not Ireland).

[MightyDucks]

Thanks for the replys,
even you wheelbrace, but i think i'll hold onto my body parts.:)

Ya i was at both exhibitions but i heard it from Jerez pilot training.i am saving everything i can at the moment and i'm lucky that i have a trade and i can always fall back on that.

I no i'm prob going to get slated for saying this but i think for me the integrated course would suit me because i belive that i would do a lot better in my exams in a full time class enviorment and doing it in big intense lump.

Any advice or criticism welcome:ok:

[FANS]

You could just do full time groundschool for say £5k.

[mad_jock]

Save, personally I think Interest rates are going to go through the roof in the next couple of years.

Your reason for wanting to do Intergrated is about the only valid reason for doing it. i.e. Your learning style would be benefit by the organised enviroment. But as FAN has pointed out you can do full time while doing a modular course.

As a matter of interest whats your education level?

The only reason why I ask this is because the theory is barely 18 year old exam level and most of it is sub 16 year old level. The likes of Alex in Bristol ground school are masters at getting folk that have been out of education for a bit through them.

Your goal should be to exit the training system with zero debts. What date in the future you should aim for is wide open for debate. There are multiple factors on going at this moment, some of which humans have no control over ie bloody volcanoes. Yes get your PPL done and start studying for your first phase of exams, but when to start the clock ticking for the time limited training I really can't advise. It could be next year (which I doudt) or in the next 5 years (I hope to hell things have recovered by then)

[CaptainBloggs]

Integrated could be an easier route if you need to rely on continuation, peer support and having everything organised for. But you will come out the other end phenomenally in debt and very possibly jobless.

There is an opinion that potential employers prefer integrated course graduates due to the structured nature, and quasi airline environment. But I'm not so sure it's worth the huge debt to test this out.

As others have said, remain in employment and build your flying qualifications the modular way. You can minimise your debt, build a potential plan B by pursuing another form of employment, and you may, just may, come out of it about the right time.

At the moment, cadets are being screwed with draw dropping disrespect by employers (those that are recruiting), and there are cadets in my company who have been declared bankrupt. It's not a good time to follow them. Go modular, bide your time.

Captain Bloggs

[MightyDucks]

I've just got my leaving cert (A-Levels) and am just about to qualify as a carpenter (my plan B).

Thanks again for the advice:ok:

[lander66]

Ya i was at both exhibitions but i heard it from Jerez pilot training.

OK. As long as you do your research into integrated courses beyond what they tell you directly from their brochure, you will be able to make a reasoned decision (which I am sure you will/have). Integrated is definately not for everyone due to the price. If you can come out the other end of your integrated training without a huge debt it is an advantage to have integrated training in employer's eyes (as CaptainBloggs said). If you can afford it do it but be wary of huge loans.

[mad_jock]

it is an advantage to have integrated training in employer's eyes

Utter utter :mad: there are more company's won't touch you as ones that will. Name one please that is currently employing.

[MightyDucks]

I've been to a few exhibitions so i know that the people at these will tell you what you want to hear.For example i was told if i started my training now that when i'm finished i would be employed within 3 months:rolleyes:

[BullHughes]

When I finished uni 3yrs ago I quietly asked my parents if they would use their properties to secure a £70k loan for me to train as a pilot. Their response?
Laughter.
In hindsight I'm embarrassed I asked, and glad they refused. How dare I?
Only alternative was to knuckle down and pay for it myself. Now I have a PPL, Night Qual, 140hrs, a few bob stuck away for a CPL and I'm debt free. How can anyone justify taking such a huge loan with no guarantee of employment at the end, simultaneously risking their inheritance that has most likely been worked for since before they were born?

Do you what the best bit is though? Instead of spending four weeks sweltering in a tatty C150 over Florida frantically hour building on my own, I have taken many family, friends and first dates for a whizz around the welsh coast over the last couple of years in a variety of different aeroplanes, all paid for by myself, NOT the bank. I've met a stack of wonderful people at airfields up and down the country and I've loved every second of it.

My point is, enjoy your PPL first and try to pay for it yourself. If you are in regular fulltime employment, a small loan to help fund it over 12 months is perfectly reasonable.

Im enjoying PPL flying so much at the moment I'm considering not bothering with the CPL!

[lander66]

Mad jock,

I personally am not a fan of integrated training. I think that airlines like the structured way that integrated students are taught. I never claimed anyone was hiring. I know that nobody is hiring so don't have a go at me for that. Not really sure why integrated training would eliminate your chances with certain airlines, could you use an example please?

[flyhelico]

a good stategy is to stay with a PPL only.
then fly for fun when you have the money, and share flights with friends.
once you reach around 150-200h, and you see airlines are starting to recruit, go for a cpl.

or borrow like crazy, file bankrupt, and kick mom and dad out...

[mad_jock]

Folk have started hiring again in small numbers (but not into airlines who I suspect will have further rounds of redundacy's coming up after the summer) but you will never see the advert's because they pick all the pilots up through personal recommendations or the pilot has networked thier way into the job.

There are several reason's

1. Bigotry, the whole of the training team went self improver or modular and just don't like intergrated full stop (there are a number like that)

2. Some require buckets full of self reliance which someone who has been through training with zero unsupervised PIC time and zero life experence won't have. The old farts you took the piss out of on your course might be in with a chance.

3. Old hardware, intergrated courses are set up to supply a product for newish hardware EFIS, autopilots that work properly not some old heap that the QRH is used nearly every week and you have to hand pole round a DME arc on steam instruments.

4. Only take 1000hr plus pilots, so its instructors,meat bombers, glider tuggies, photo pilots etc

5. They have the reputation of being cocky wee ****es.

The structured training line came from the Q400 fleet skipper at flybe and has been latched onto by the training industry as a reason for intergrated training because the BMI and BA reason is long dead. The fact that flybe do take on modular students seems to be missed out in the telling. All they are interested in is that you completed your CPL and IR at the same school.

When you see cadetships linked with certain schools be assured that there is something in it for both parties. It is a hard financial deal with benifits to both parties (and by parties I mean the airline and the school). The bonus to the student, there has to be some carrot, is the chance of a job.

And as I have said there are reasons why intergrated is the best option for a small minority of student pilots. But the marketing spin line about airlines prefer it because of structure is :mad:. That very structure of being spoon fed with zero true unsupervised PIC time puts you out the picture for quite a few jobs. Its fact that those jobs until the last couple of years wouldn't have been looked at by a 170 hour zero to hero. Now there is abundance of hero's trying to get into markets (instructing,tugging,reccon,survey etc) that they would have never looked at in the past. But its only to get hours, the pay won't fund the debt repayments. Employers know this and stay clear because it means you will go ASAP or at some point you will cause huge problems with going bankrupt.

If you graduate and don't get some form of job within a year. Unfortuantely the chances are you have pissed every penny you have spent on training up the wall. You have a very expensive PPL and are allowed to fly in clouds until you run out of money keeping that current.