Anyone noticed the pork in the mess seems to be really tender these days

[NutLoose]

Odd isn't it that they all moan about this, bet they would get really peeved if they knew that when the Colt 45 was being developed in the USA, they used to book corpses out of the local morgue to shoot at and see the effects....



MoD blew up 119 live pigs in explosive tests | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280053/MoD-blew-119-live-pigs-explosive-tests.html)

<H1>MoD blew up 119 live pigs in explosive tests



By Ian Drury (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Ian+Drury)
Last updated at 9:53 AM on 21st May 2010

Animal rights campaigners expressed outrage last night after the Ministry of Defence admitted blowing up 119 live pigs in explosives tests.
The MoD defended the experiments, saying they had 'saved many lives' in Afghanistan and Iraq.
They have led to improvements in body armour and the medical treatment of soldiers injured by roadside bombs, it said.

Questionable research? Scientists blew up 119 pigs at Porton Down research centre in Salisbury. They were investigating the effects of IEDs and explosives used by the Taliban

But animal welfare activists criticised the 'unethical' practice of causing 'massive mutilation and injury' to the pigs.
The research took place at the Government's secret military research laboratory Porton Down, near Salisbury, Wiltshire, between 2006 and 2009.
Official figures reveal 25 pigs were used in improvised explosive device experiments in 2006, 19 in 2007, 40 in 2008, and 35 in 2009. The animals are anaesthetised before the explosions.
The breed of pigs used in the experiments have skin similar to humans.
Scientists say the tests allow them to see injuries consistent with those inflicted by the Taliban on the battlefield and devise more effective post-traumatic techniques.

The MoD also wraps pigs in materials used to make body armour, such as Kevlar, to determine how effective it is at reducing damage from IEDs.

The British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection said: 'Not only are such experiments scientifically questionable... subjecting pigs to such massive mutilation and injury also raises profound ethical questions.'
Caroline Lucas, the Green MP for Brighton Pavilion, has written to ministers urging them to stop the practice.
An RSPCA spokesman said the MoD was required to carry out the tests under strict controls, but added: 'For many, such a use of animals represents a distressing example of the price animals can end up paying as a result of humans' inhumanity towards other humans.'
An MoD spokesman said: 'The advances made due to this research can be utilised both in theatre and civilian scenarios, particularly if there are mass casualties and evacuation to hospital is delayed.'
Government figures show more than 50,000 animals, including sheep, monkeys and cattle, have been subject to experiments at Porton Down in the past four years, including ones using chemical and biological


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280053/MoD-blew-119-live-pigs-explosive-tests.html#ixzz0oYshoWPT (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280053/MoD-blew-119-live-pigs-explosive-tests.html#ixzz0oYshoWPT)

</H1>

[The Oberon]

No way to treat members of the constabulary !

[Langball]

A work colleague of mine has a son who is a design engineer for a medical device company. He told me recently that his son was going to the head offcie in the U.S. for a 'pig test'. Apparently a pig has skin that is a close match for human skin. So they give the animal an anasthetic, then use the newly designed device to cut him up. Needless to say, at the end of the experiment they don't bother reviving the poor animal.

All's fair in 'love or war', or in the advancement of medical technology.

[Pontius Navigator]

A big improvement on testing in the 50s and 60s when they used Guinea Pigs?

And paid them only a shilling a day.

[Roadster280]

If such research at any MoD lab saves the life of ONE soldier at the hands of the Taliban and their ilk, then I say "use ALL the pigs for research."

A better solution would be to take the research into the field, and use live Taliban in preference to pigs, but I don't think that would pass scrutiny at the political level.

[Magic Mushroom]

I phoned the MoD help line to add my voice of complaint to this disgusting abuse of intelligent animals...unfortunately all I got was crackling.

I'll get my coat!:O

Regards,
MM

[Molemot]

Child size crash test dummies were developed using actual child corpses. Some things just have to be done.

[The Civil Civillian]

Quote "Child size crash test dummies were developed using actual child corpses. Some things just have to be done."

Can I ask just WHO'S kids where these? I know all to well from personal experience what can be kept back during a post-mortem but wouldn't all parents want to bury their dead child? and wouldn't they notice if the head was missing?

As bad [read as underhanded & secretive] as the medical estabilshment is at collecting 'interesting samples and various raw material', I don't think they have freezers full of complete children in readiness for testing.

Unless these bodies/heads where donated to research? Hence the query.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Without wishing to sound too much like a Daily Mail reader, here's someone who's a perfect fit for the job in question:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KABKiabeI58&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KABKiabeI58&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Neptunus Rex]

Why not drop the exploding pigs on Terry Taliban? Double whammy!

[ian176]

That would infringe their human rights!:eek:

[heights good]

Amazon.com: Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers (9780393050936): Mary Roach: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0393050939)

Civil Civilian, real bodies are used. Some are donated, some are "John Doa's" and some just aren't claimed by family.

It is a practice that has gone on for years and has saved thousands of life. The aforemetioned book is well worth a read, very interesting and gives a nother perspective on death.

HG

[Wensleydale]

Its a long time since I had a "Chop" Ride.:}

[The B Word]

I believe they were testing the effectiveness of combat first aid with stuff like Quickclot - QuikClot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuikClot)

The US have also done some testing on live pigs - warning this is pretty graphic!

YouTube - Field eXpedients: Quik-Clot Life Saving Powder-and Now Gauze (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9xvIbKBJn4)

If it saves the lives and litteraly limbs of people then I am all for it, as long as the pig's suffering is minimal.

It's these idiot animal welfare people that stopped fox hunting and I've lost 3 sets of chickens since and have a very upset little girl who had named each and every one of them. If she had been given a horse and hounds she would have gone out hunting herself, probably including the anti-fox hunters as well!

The B Word

[BEagle]

I've lost 3 sets of chickens since

Some sort of fence-like thing might seem appropriate?

Not wishing to re-open the fox hunting debate, but the Countryside Alliance failed to provide any reasoned debate about the issue. Too much concentration on 'tradition' and 'peoples livelihoods' and nothing about effective pest control - pi$$ poor PR. So to outsiders they were simply seen as a bunch of pink-jacketed hoorays who revel in ripping poor foxy-woxy to bits with pairs of hounds...:rolleyes:

[The B Word]

Beagle

The hens have a coupe with an electric door opener at dawn/dusk - the crafty blighter (probably one of the mangey ones that Fox hunting normally catches!) sat waiting for the door to open and by the time I got to the Coupe from B Word Towers, all 3 were snaffled (three seperate times!). Poor old chickens are now penned in until we go and let them out - no more free-ranging because, in the words of the do gooders, the Fox has taken away their liberties!!!

They don't just take chickens - here's a lamb taken by a Fox:

http://www.foxmanonline.org.uk/Images/lambkill.jpg
About 3% of the UK's lamb population fall victim to the Fox.

By the way, every single hunt is not successful and its normally the old or mange-ridden Fox that are caught - a healthy one stands a good chance of escape. The fitter ones don't tend to go for chickens and lambs as they are quick enough to catch local wildlife. With a name like Beagle, I thought you would have known that :ok:

I note that the Fox hunting debate is re-opening - hoorah! (if only I was a Henry, educated at Eton/Oxford as you seem to believe, most hunters are country folk from humbler backgrounds).

Anyway, back to the Pigs I guess...

The B Word

[BEagle]

The hens have a coupe with an electric door opener

Very upmarket chooks - would that be a BMW coupe? Back when oi werr' a lad, our chickens lived in a humble coop down Zumzett way. Liberally reinforced with chicken wire. Funny that....:rolleyes:

I'm neutral about hunting. Having lived in the country, I can see the case both for and against - but the PR of the pro-hunting lobby is utter bolleaux.

[The B Word]

Beagle
Electric door opener was because I was too lazy to get up and open the door -now the fox makes me do it anyway. I suppose it keeps me fit!

At least I now know how to spell "coop" - always thought that was the name of the airman's favourite supermarket !

[Royalistflyer]

Chooks!!!!!???

[diginagain]

Chooks!!!!!???

Strine.

Or possibly Taunton.

[Pontius Navigator]

Back on topic, how about engraving on each bullet etc tested on pigs:}

[ZeBedie]

Ever watched pigs queueing up foe execution at an abattoir? They know what's going on and they're terrified - so why the hypocrisy about this?

[teeteringhead]

Wasn't it Churchill who said (if it wasn't, some pprune ppedant will tell me!):

"Dogs look up to you...

Cats look down on you ...

But pigs is equal ...."

[Vage Rot]

Ever watched pigs queueing up foe execution at an abattoir? They know what's going on and they're terrified - so why the hypocrisy about this?

Mind you, just had pork chops for dinner - very nice! Guess the pigs just have to take one for the team!!!!:D

[The Civil Civillian]

HG: thanks for the reply. This may be a question about 'country'.

After the relatively recent 'organ retension scandals' in many UK hospitals, they did a nationwide census to see who had exactly what in the freezers. They did find the head and body of a 10? yr old 'cleft palete' sufferer in 1 UK institution but Alan Milburn (in his statment to parliment) gave the impression that this was the apex/the biggest case/the horribilest example of what had been happening.

But this is the UK. I could see the US as being quite different, even if it's only in terms of quantity.

But as we all tend to belong to someone as a child, I'd like to see the numbers of children not claimed or 'donated to science' just for cuiousity sake.

Parents fight tooth & nail for their kids so it seems to me just so against our human nature/instincts to not care for them after death.