Which Air Arm?

[Jonay1990]

Right,

Quite a long story from me, but I've been thinking this over the past few days.

I've always since I was about 7 or 8, wanted to be a RAF Pilot. No specific type, but recently in the last few years I've realised my heard lies with Helicopters.

After speaking at about 3 or 4 careers conventions at my school (when i was still there!) I changed my Air Arm to the RN. The RAF didnt offer as much of a challenge or worldwide oppurtunity than the RN does.

I applied for the RN back in Oct '07, and to this day I am still going through selection, obviously being only 17 at the time the Liasion Officer was smart enough to have my filter interviews spread out enough to make it apparent that i wasnt that far away from the next (couple of months at a time, for about 4 or 5 interviews) but still not too close that I'd be waiting around at the end of it all to "mature" into being suitable enough for selection.

I had a trip down to RNAS Yeovilton back in Jan '09, to have some sort of aqauintance visit along with other FAA candidates, who were all a lot older and were closer to their AIB (RN's version of OASC) than i was, it was a really good visit actually with doing the basic underwater escape training and 1.5hrs stick time on a HC4+ http://fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumbup1.gif being the highlights (how i managed to do the underwater escape training inverted in the pitch black still to this day fools me as to how i did it! Survival Instinct really does take over!)

anyway, back OT, I then went down to RAF Cranwell to sit my aptitude tests. I failed. Just. or so i am told (don't know if i did or not and they are just saying i just missed out to keep me keen!) and ive been told to re-apply for them. I'm not confident at all that ill pass and i dont want to waste more time finding out.

So im thinking of going A/C techie. (Can't do Eng Off as I dont have a degree! and I'm only 19! need to be 21 in most cases)

Now the RAF sounds like the obvious choice. But as we all know there facing serious budget cuts and i know a lot of trades are closed, including this one.

So the the RN my first choice for flying, but i don't want to be stuck on a ship for month on end. I have a mate who is in the RN who is atttached to 846 NAS, but he's either at Yeovilton or in Afgan. I know i wont be that "lucky" and aviod the sea going parts so ill give it a miss.

so my last choice is the Army's REME, who deal with all the A/C Mech side.. now I'm heavily prejudiced against the Army, just because the way i was brought up. My parents said to me when i was starting to think about which Air Arm to fly in that they'd prefer me not to go to the Army. i know it wont be as bad as i think it is, but to be honest, my parents think Army = School leaver who doesnt know what to do with his life and goes away and gets the Army to do whatever they need him to do becuase he can't be bothered thinking himself. I know a lot of army guys who are really switched on etc, but you still do get that sense about them. I dont know if thats what been drilled into me or what, but it is how i feel. I know it will change once I'm there, but as i say its the way I was brought up. At least I'm trying by condidering it! so any slating comments regarding this part will be ignored.

I know im old enough to make my own decisions now, but i still obviously dont want to go and upset my parents. but the Army has really taken my fancy, esp now i've properly read into it. but then again, the Army does have the best PR i know.. it certianly works! http://fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif Also there is the prospect of me being able to fly as a NCO once (if!) i get LCpl and be put forward for Cpl and i have at least 3years under my belt.. it sounds promising, but i wont get to fly the mightly Apache! http://fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif (unless i get WO, which i highly doubt! http://fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif )


Just wondering if the wise community out here has any good advice for a young man wanting to get into the Forces and be hands on involved with Aviation!


(Observer/WSO/WSOp/Loadmaster etc - please no suggestions for these, I'm looking for jobs that have transfferable skills when/if i leave. Observer/WSO are harder for me anyway due to it being my mental maths that are letting me down!)

[Set Me Free]

I was in a similar position a few years ago. Any time spent in the military gives good, sought-after transferable skills, so I think you are wrong to dismiss those that initially do not offer this. Anyway, you are looking at a minimum of 12 years (RAF Aircrew short service commission) until this comes in to play anyway, and that is plenty of time to get skills that will be useable in civvy street. Plus WSO/Obs will give you as good if not a greater chance of civvy employment than any of the other trades you mention such as Army REME mech.

As for what your parents think, they will get over it and be proud of you whatever you do, you cannot let that hold you back from what you want to do.

Decide what you want out of your time in, and then go for what you want to do. You cannot base it on what will please the 'rents or what will get you employed in civvy street after you have done your time.

[boguing]

As a 'rent of an 18yo, I can only say that the eloquence of some of you kids always astounds me.

You are, very obviously, someone that our Forces should make use of.

Stick with it.

[nickyjsmith]

Look, you get another chance at the tests, you seem to know what your weakness was so stop licking your wounds, find a way to improve it and give it your best shot.
If you do this and fail, you can hold your head up high, if you don't have a go you will always wonder "what if ?"
There will always be other options if it doesn't work out, so go and show them what you can do, they are looking for people who are low training risk, that means they bounce back when things are tough.
One life, give it your best.:ok:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Pal, just get on and do it.

If you join the crabs you'll be "stuck" in some godawful hole in Hampshire, or in the 'stan but still dressed in denim; if you join the pongos you'll be in some equally godawful hole in Wiltshire or in the 'stan; if you join the RN you'll be in a comfortable ship, well fed, clean sheets and in a service with a sense of humour too, or you might well end up in the 'stan if you are junglie or a baggie but at least you've got a far greater chance to be on the back of a frigate or whatever, and being "stuck" on a ship is far from unpleasant. Particularly when the alternatives are considered.

Joining the forces is not about cherry-picking what you fancy and what you don't fancy - it's not a poofs auction you know!You're joining to serve your country, for the adventure and you'll take what you're given. If you're too precious to stomach that then go join a bank.

Otherwise, if you've got the balls, join up!

Army, Navy, Airforce - Which? Banter above, little difference. The committed seldom regret the decison to go military.

But by choice, FlyNavy!

;)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

1. If they offer to have you back, then practise what was weak and go back! Mate of mine got in after 5 attempts, ended up FJ then QFI.
2. Make the right choice at the outset. Transfer between the Services is practically impossible unless they need it, not just if you want it, as I and others have found.
3. Boating does seem to offer the best best life at present, and I say that as an ex-crab.

Good luck!

[helidriver]

You can apply for pilot training as a Lance Corporal recommended Corporal in the Army. On completion of the pilots course you will be promoted to Acting Sergeant. Aircraft type will depend on your ability and availability, and you can fly any of the aircraft types in the armys inventory, including Apache. Indeed, if are successful as an aircraft technician you will undoubtably pass out as a Lance Corporal although you will have a trade time bar of probably 4/5 years.

Many Army Pilots have benefitted from this system and there also exist opportunities to Commission at a later date should you wish to manage flying rather than 'just fly'!

You must join whichever service most suits you and don't believe all the negative 'other service comments'. A good friend of mine (son of a senior RAF Officer) joined the Army Air Corps after doing an acquaint to both services and just felt more at home in the Army. 16 years is a long time to serve to a pension with people you don't have similar interests with.

Apologies for spelling mistakes, typed this on my iPhone. Sausage fingers coupled with not being to see all I type is asking for trouble from the qwerty marksmen among thus forum!

Regards,

h

[Sloppy Link]

To expand on what my mate HD said, check pm.

SL

[HEDP]

There are plenty of Sgt's flying Apache, it is not the case that you have to be a WO! Maybe even a Cpl or two.

[getsometimein]

All apache aircrew DE's are officers now. You'll only get in as a non-co if you have other heli experience in the air arm.

Seriously dude, dont join at the bottom of the ladder and fill sandbags if you can wait a year and join straight as aircrew.

[Sloppy Link]

Re last post...wrong!
Ab Initio NCOs and Officers are going straight onto Apache.

Advice is only worthwhile if it is accurate. Get some time in and be current.

[getsometimein]

From the army website:

Non-Commissioned Officer: Any soldier with the minimum rank of Lance Corporal, recommended and qualified for promotion to Corporal, with at least four years service, may apply for the Army Pilots Course

and also

The AAC recruits pilots from three main sources:

Direct Entry (Officers only)

The ranks of the AAC (Corporals and above)

Officers and soldiers from other arms and branches of the Service (Corporal and above)


Want a hand off your high horse or can you get down yourself?

[helidriver]

getsometimein,

Well done, you have clarified the post made by sloppylink!

h

[MAD Boom]

getsometimein

Whilst I respect your wish to defend your honour at Sloppy's comments, maybe sit back and read what is being written. From the last few lines of his original post, Jonay1990 seems to be leaning towards the Army with the intention of starting, as you so eloquently put it, at the 'bottom of the ladder' and working his way up. Therefore he wouldn't be a DE and your first post becomes irrelevant on that matter.

Seriously dude, dont join at the bottom of the ladder and fill sandbags if you can wait a year and join straight as aircrew.

A little high and mighty maybe? We were all bottom of a ladder at some point; remember being the 4th dry? (Lower down the ladder than the 3rd Wet by the way). Maybe get yourself on the NCACMT course and phrase your advice more carefully, and in a less derogatory manner. However as your name suggests, you must have been in ages and already passed that course.

[Sloppy Link]

"You'll only get in as a non-co if you have other heli experience in the air arm."

This is wrong.

NCO pilots come from any arm of the Army and do not require previous helicopter experience. Upon completion of APC, if the requirement and the ability is there, an Ab Initio is streamed onto Apache be it DE AAC Officer, DE Officer from another arm or NCO from any arm, AAC or otherwise.

Not on high horse, simply on on correct, current (high) ground.

[getsometimein]

But what you're saying is bad advice, if you have the ability and drive to be aircrew, why join as groundcrew etc for 5-10 years before applying and maybe not getting through at that point...

You can hardly say that a 4th dry etc is the same as an LAC/PVT! Apart from anything else NCA get paid twice as much....

How many people have you met that said, "I was going to go aircrew, but never got around to it...." etc etc etc.

[helidriver]

getsometimein,

I think the assumption here is that an individual is academically qualified for both Officer and Junior Rank service. If an individual does not have the required GCSE or A level qualifications then the Corporal route it is. Incidentally, the selection for pilot training is identical.

Consider this, an individual could leave school at 17 without any qualifications, join as a soldier in any trade. Apply and be successful for Army Pilot training and start the pilots course at 21, having been paid for the last 4 years. There then exists the opportunity to fly for the remainder of your Army service up to 24 years. There is also opportunity to commission during this period, either by the Direct Entry (after using the Army's free education to obtain quals) or Late Entry route (no quals req).

In contrast, go to university leave at 21, Sandhurst for a year then commission, pilots course and fly for 4 years before staff work puts a hold on flying for 7 until you are very lucky to get a sqn. Fly for 2 years then prob never fly again and 'manage the system'.

The Armys professional aviators are its Non Commissioned Officers and they also provide aviation continuity for the Army Air Corps. One distinction between this system and that of the other services is that it does not under value the Commissioned Officer. The Army Officer is a leader and manager of men from the beginning rather than 'just a pilot' or Officer In Charge of flying rations et al.

This system may sound anachronistic but it is the way we do business and it works for us. As I intimated earlier, it depends which cloth you are cut from.

h

[MAD Boom]

But what you're saying is bad advice, if you have the ability and drive to be aircrew, why join as groundcrew etc for 5-10 years before applying and maybe not getting through at that point...

Again, my Maritime friend, you are not reading; I gave no advice.

I agree with you to some extent; as DE NCA once myself, I would encourage anyone to aim high and push for what you want. However, I would question the poster's 'drive and ambition' in this case; clearly he has an opportunity to reapply next year, but instead he seems to be abandoning the chance to enter as DE aircrew and looking to the other services for another way into the flying world.

You can hardly say that a 4th dry etc is the same as an LAC/PVT!

I said nothing of the sort.