Ansett

[Tainlovestofly]

I am new to aviation and have been cabin crew for less than a year now. In my ground school was a former Ansett FA and then when I started IFT my trainer was also ex Ansett and because of these two I have not stopped hearing about how great Ansett used to be. They keep telling me that they were the highest paid CC in the world (or maybe just Australia, I can't remember...please correct me) and this meant that all the staff were extremely loyal and well trained. I have come across a lot of ex Ansett people in my new job and must say I have been very impressed with them.

I guess I am just genuinely interested to know, since I never even flew Ansett as a passenger back in the day, and since this industry is now the absolute love of my life, what the deal was with this? Could anyone give me the run down? What kind of money were they making? Was it really something special pay wise (for that era)? Was this pay part of the reason Ansett collapsed? I also hear Ansett employees (well, CC anyways) got 12 free flights domestically a year at one stage.

I'd just love to get some insiders POVs cos I'm just curious and would like to learn what it used to be like there before it all collapsed.

[Metro man]

Ansett cabin crew were very well paid and earnt more than many pilots who weren't flying for airlines, certainly more than I was flying freight.

A book could be written on the demise of Ansett. Basically it was an airline which didn't move with the changing times and went the way of the dinosaur.

Back in the regulated days of Ansett/Trans Australia Airlines, there were two airlines flying on a route, with the same aircraft type, at the same times, for the same fare. Staff were highly paid in both companies, highly unionised and had archaic working practices. The consumer had no choice but to pay for all this through exhorbitant fares.

Trans Australia Airlines are now part of a privatised QANTAS and took some steps into the twentieth centuary. Enter a low cost in the form of Virgin Blue who started with a clean sheet of paper for work practices, terms and conditions and the writing was on the wall. AN was bleeding money, then 11/09/2001 happened and it was basically curtains. The government quite rightly refused to prop things up with tax payer money, a rescue attempt with private money was briefly considered but when the players realised it was non profitable it was game over.

Management must take its share of the blame, as must the staff. When a relatively small airline operates A320s and B737s, when B767s have to be fitted with a flight engineers panel to comply with a union agreement, when a flight gets cancelled because one cabin crew member goes sick and the remaining crew refuse to operate without a replacement even though they are still +1 on the legal minimum number.

Without a backer prepared to fund all this, it doesn't get to go on forever.

Currently British Airways cabin crew are the closest comparison to Ansett cabin crew and will probably go the same way. Hopefully they don't take everyone elses jobs with them.

[emeritus]

The comments by Metro Man, to me seem to come across as coming from someone with some sort of axe to grind rather than someone who worked for Ansett.

Agreed that some of the work practices are very different to those of today, they existed in a company that had staff who were very proud of their professionalism and extremely loyal to RM Ansett. This sort of loyalty does not exist today.

I only worked there a short time (26 yrs) compared to a lot of collegues.
Despite being relatively small by world standards, Ansett and TAA as well, were very well respected throughout the world for their expertise. It used to be known that a lot of smaller airlines with similar route systems bought aircraft that AN/TN ordered because they did their homework in selecting what they bought.

As to what happened...the short answer is that Ansett was bled dry after years of corporate rape by Ables and Murdoch.

Emeritus

[4Greens]

Ansett were finished when Qantas joined up with Australian. Qantas then has a domestic base but Ansett couldnt afford an overseas expansion.

[Dora-9]

4Greens - this is far too simplistic!

Emeritus I think is much closer to the truth.

I was only there for 20 years, it was an extremely professional, happy, loyal and proud airline - at least until the rumblings that led to the 1989 disaster started. My impression (I wasn't there by then) was that this really started the downward spiral.

Rod Eddington's words: "Great airline, lousy business" were prophetic.

[Metro man]

The comments by Metro Man, to me seem to come across as coming from someone with some sort of axe to grind rather than someone who worked for Ansett.

I have some experience with Ansett, having flown freight on their behalf. If their loaders were representative of the rest of the company then I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did. Basically there were twice as many loaders used, they took twice as long and were paid twice as much, compared to other companies we flew for

I've got no axe to grind, just looking at things realistically. If Ansett had moved with the times, it might still be around today and the employees would still have jobs.

Incompetent management, unbending unions and a staff expecting to be paid far in excess of what they produce will kill any company.

When thing inevitably collapsed, the employees were on the news in tears expecting the government to step in and keep the party going. Canberra quite rightly refused but did put a tax on air ticket sales to ensure staff entitlements were paid. What was so special about Ansett staff when many companies go broke (including one I worked for) leaving their employees out of pocket ?

Once out in the real world, how many ex Ansett staff found other jobs with similar pay and conditions ?

[chimbu warrior]

I'm no expert, but from where I sit there would seem to be elements of truth in the opinions offered by Metro Man, Emeritus and DHC1mk22 (why not just the Chippie Chappie?).

The demise occurred over 20 years, not 20 weeks or months. Inappropriate fleet mix (all okay aircraft, just too many different types), a seemingly ill-considered international network, and a lot of pre-deregulation mindset are probably all contributing factors.

The only other observation I would make is that the current situation regarding payscales and pay-for-training should not become a benchmark. Hopefully it is a passing cloud that will soon give way to sunny skies.

[Feather #3]

This didn't happen over-night! A friend of mine had a contingency plan for WHEN they went broke, but secured a job with QF a few months before the end and the plan wasn't required.

Only a surprise to some.

G'day ;)

[emeritus]

Tainlovestofly...

I hope you enjoy your time in the industry as much as I did mine. As you have an interest in what AN was like in its day there are many books around detailing the industry history over the years.

I suggest you read Nan Whitcombs book "Up here and down there" published in 1986.

Nan was an air hostess with ANA and then Ansett ANA finishing up as Snr Regional Hostess in ADL. The book is full of info and anecdotes from hosties.

A second suggestion is "The forgotten giant of Australian Aviation : Australian National Aiways" by Dr Peter Yule.

An excellent history of the initial development of an airline. It has a good section of the development of the concept of air hostesses. The early hosties had to be qualified nurses !

In the days before deregulation a domestic pursers job was more akin to that of a cabin director on an international airline.

regards..Emeritus

[Tainlovestofly]

Thanks! I will have to have a look out for them next time I am in a bookstore!

Thanks everyone for your replies...I'm finding it all so interesting! Then flying today I pulled out the oven racks in our ovens and saw that they said Ansett on them and I couldn't help but marvel and have a little chuckle at it :)