Cheapest helicopter for JAA Flying school

[topik22]

Hello,
I am interested in subject from title, I understand that R22 and 300 Cbi are cheap but is it possible to make flying school on helicopter from SPECIAL or EXPERIMANTAL category,for example: Exec, Safari...
Jack

[Heli-Ice]

topik22

This has been checked here in Iceland with the Rotorway and a straight out NO was the CAA's answer. Since Iceland is a full JAA member state, this should apply to the rest of them.

I suggest you go for the R22 or the Cbi for your outfit, two proven helicopters that have been beaten around for decades.

[Trans Lift]

Who would want to???

[longtime lurker]

Since 2007 EASA have been responsible for approving most of the flight conditions of "Permit to Fly" aircraft.

Unless things have changed significantly, Europe has not been particularly receptive to the idea of using "permit to fly" aircraft for instruction.

[topik22]

Many thanks.So it is better to pay more to have less problem...

[FLY 7]

300 Cbi isn't as cheap as the R22 - closer to R44, but as ever, you get what you pay for with heliopters.

[misterbonkers]

Brantly B2?

[Whirlygig]

A Schweizer 300C may be closer to an R44 with regards to cost/price but the CBi is cheaper to run and the hourly is nearer the R22.

Cheers

Whirls

[Paddyviking]

R22 is popular the world over and is excellent for the purpose it was built for, biggest drawback I noticed is the weight limitation, especially when you have heavy instructor or student.
300 seems better in that respect being able to cope with the heavier pilots but also seems to have a higher opperating cost here in JAA land.
It also makes quite a bit more noise than R22 more like the R44
R44 is also suitable but costs more to run and opperate

PV

[Whirlygig]

and is excellent for the purpose it was built for,Agreed, and that purpose was personal transport, not training. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[zlocko2002]

r22 was not designed for flight trainimg, 300 was. Cabri is also good option.

[topik22]

OK,
what is Cabri? Is it certyfied in EASA?
topik

[9Aplus]

Yes, Cabri G2, full EASA, cheap in operation, excellent choice :ok:

[topik22]

Could You send approx cost of 1 hour of flying Cabri G2? Is it possible to find it in another flying schools?

OK, I can see. More than 260,000 euro for 2 seat helicopter....very expensive...

[zlocko2002]

i think around 200e per hour direct operating cost. 9a+ could know details

[Heli-Ice]

9A+

Whats your take on the Cabri G2? Would you care to share your experience with it?

[topik22]

9A+ please any info...

[topendtorque]

I had a chance to fly a brand new CBI just the other day. I can say that it is very impressive.

No throttle chops please becaue the donk is predicted to stop, but there is just a couple of systems in there that may give the newbie an inkling of how to approach management of those systems in the bigger machines.

By that I say there are no systems in the R22 of any sort and once one has mastered the hover there really isn't much else to learn until one goes mustering, say.

Price per hour everything in for the CBI, here in OZ seems identical if not cheaper to that of the R22. Fuel burn seems to be around 42 L/H or a bit more, whereas the Beta II will need to be plannned at 36 or so. That is northern climes that I refer to.

Methinks that the Cabri is really a simple helicopter to operate, similar to the R22, and what we saw of the purchase price posted here-abouts, i doubt it would be much cheaper than the R22 or CBI.

Perhaps someone could roll out some comparatives.

That is to say that the Cabri, if it could be purchased cheaper than others and was proven to be durable to the same pre certification stress loads that the R22 was subjected to, may find a niche in mustering also.

Note; An ATSB study found the mustering stress loads on the R22 to be lighter overall than the certification tests stress loads.

all the best tet

[Heli-Ice]

tet

I suggest adjusting the idle RPM and the air/fuel mixture on your Cbi if the donk quits while doing throttle chops. I had this problem with the 300C I used to fly and this took care of it :ok:

[longtime lurker]

Total Operating Cost for Cabri G2, published by manufacturer in December 2009:

200 hours a year = €195/hr
300 hours a year = €174/hr
400 hours a year = €163/hr
500 hours a year = €157/hr
600 hours a year = €152/hr

Some of the data used:
Purchase price €264000
Insurance €12700
Fuel Cost €1.60/litre
Labour €60/hr

[9Aplus]

We was in front of similar dilemma or choice few months ago....
Result of our investigation was G2 like best price-performance
after that we find out that even big(er) players are going that way
like:
Training Academy Kassel 2 - Eurocopter, an EADS company (http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Training-Academy-Kassel_1071-1083.html)
or
Training costs private helicopter pilot license PPL-H (http://www.heli-aviation.eu/home/school/privatpilot-ppl-h/training-costs.html)

so compare prices on last link... there is your answer :ok:

[topik22]

so Cabri G2 seems to be new era in helicopter training...

and what about the maintenance? Where could You find service station for Cabri?

[zlocko2002]

isn't 4-sitter needed for CPL(H) module?

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

How about the Enstrom 280? Anyone can give approximate DOC and purchase price? How does it compare to R22 and R44?

[topik22]

I think Enstrom is quite expensive to operate:

Helicopter Variable Cost (http://www.conklindd.com/Page.aspx?cid=1118)

but maybe someone has got another experience...

[9Aplus]

@topik22
For the maintenance, there are some service centers in Germany yet, and
soon in Sweden and Romania. We are training the mechanics at the same
time we enter the new markets. Customers could contact us, and depending
on countries, we will be pleased to propose them a solution for the
maintenance of their future Cabri.

It will be kind of you if you could let Mr /Topik22/ know that he could
write me on my e-mail address and I will be happy to answer any question
he may have.
Thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,
Julie Depinay

so mail of Julie is Hélicoptères Guimbal <sales(at)guimbal.com>

Fly safe :ok: