Potential failure

[MightyDucks]

I hope i don't get killed for asking a stupid question but can anybody tell me how many people that train to become pilots actually fail the course?

[Whirlygig]

The ones who run out of money.

If you fail your ground exams, you take them again. And again. And again. If you fail your skill test, you can take it again. And again. And again.

Maybe after a third/fourth attempt, the examiner would start to question the person who signed off the 170A, the school as well as the student's abilities.

But there are many who fail to find a job.

Cheers

Whirls

[flyhighspeed300]

PPL course is fun and is the starting place of learning about aviation.

The ATPL ground school exams are the second hardest thing. Time a lot of work in a couple of months. It is not easy. There is a lot of work. It’s all about learning and taking things in.

Hour building time is fun time. Having a great time, something you will only do once in your life.

CPL is making sure you skills are back up to where they should be after doing 100 hours.

MEP & IR ratings. This area is not the hardest thing people make out. The hardest thing about this part of the course is the cost. £1000 a flight is not uncommon. The pressure of the cost is the hardest thing to that on this area. Any over runs will be met normally by failure of your account first the by not passing this area. It is also hard to pass first time as well, so you could partial and pay more money to finish off getting your rating.

MCC course, which is fun after all the pressure from cost and studying long and hard.

This next bit is the hardest point. Getting a job!!! Not easy by any long shot. You send out 1000’s C.V’s and even more afterwards to companies every year with no interest from them.

Its an amazing thing to do, but at price. £60K with no job after 2years and still waiting like lots of other people.

[lander66]

Different courses, different percentages. As Whirls says, money is key. Part of me thinks that those just managing to scrape enough money together to train are more likely to succeed than those who have huge amounts of money to waste, the reason being that they will be more dedicated and less wasteful.

[CaptainBloggs]

Don't start down the road to be a commercial pilot unless you really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really REALLy want to be a commercial pilot more than anything else.

The training is hard, stressful and life consuming. The financial outlaw can be practically endless.

Then once you're qualified and you're looking for a job, it becomes frustrating and depressing as you suffer repeated rejection, and all the time your IR renewal is looming. And you calculate that whatever job you do over the next umpteen years, you'll still be paying off your debt.

Light turbo props will pay less than average salary, a jet job is likely to come only if you further shell out to CTC or a type rating provider. Currently UK jet operators who are most likely to be hiring in years to come are offering scandalous contracts to cadets - of which more can be found elsewhere on this site.

Yes, it's a very negative picture, but reality for many who commence commercial pilot training. Therefore, I stand by my advie at the top of the post: don't do start down this road unless it's your absolute dream to be a pilot because you may need that motivation to keep you going.

That said, I and countless others here have done it and succeeded, so you can too - but you do need that drive which come mostly from undying ambition.

Good luck.

Captain Bloggs

[G SXTY]

how many people that train to become pilots actually fail the course?


Define 'the course'. Integrated? IR training? ATPL groundschool? My gut feeling is that a very high proportion of those who start out with ambitions to be a commercial pilot will never make it. Something in the order of 90%. The reasons are many and varied, and flyhighspeed300 sums up the situation nicely, but money is a big, big factor, along with determination, luck and timing.

Remember that flying schools generally find it hard not to accept people's cash, regardless of their lack of ability. Thus, those with the deepest pockets will generally end up with a CPL/IR eventually. (I know one guy who sold his flat to finance a 'one and only, all or nothing' attempt at the IR, struggled with the course and simply ran out of cash, and another with seemingly bottomless pockets, who finally managed to pass the CPL at the fifth or sixth attempt). Whether these people will ever get a job at the end of it is another question.

[potkettleblack]

I am sure Alex could provide us with some interesting statistics of how many sets of ATPL books he mails out versus the number of folks turning up for brush up courses. I would gander that there were thousands of his big blue manuals sitting gathering dust in various bookshelves across the world, many of which were never opened.

[Boing7117]

On my "integrated" course, 1 guy (out of 20) didn't make it through groundschool and he called it a day about half way through the groundschool course. He was the living, breathing example of our flight schools wonderful "Safety Net" that reimbursed the student the bulk of their money spent so far (which worked out about £5,000 I seem to recall).

The one's that stumbled through groundschool all eventually got their CPL, except for one who seemed to have made up their mind they wouldn't be continuing with the course. That's 2 guys gone.

In the IR phase most people passed their IR first time or at least first series. There were a couple I think that dropped off the radar for a while and months later I heard they'd finished the course. This would have been easily 3/5 months later than scheduled so I've no idea what additional costs they might have incurred.

I believe there was another classmate who finished the course a year later than everyone else after running out of money then coming back to finish off.

So I suppose, out of 20, 17 got through it.

[The Lost Cumbrian]

If you consider the old adage about 'The Englishman's Breakfast'. then doing so might reinforce what you really want for your future career.

It goes like this : - 'The chicken contributes the egg- but the pig is totally commited'.

A career as a commercial pilot can be supremely rewarding but to get there needs the will of Chairman Mao. He said, when explaining 'the long 3000 mile march' - "The hardest part is the first step".

Nothing is impossible, my friend, you just need the will (and the lolly).

Best wishes.

[MightyDucks]

Thanks for the replys guys/girls. flying is something that i really really do want to do and making lots of money isn't important but saying that i don't want to be struggling to re-make my payments.Is this possible even with a flying job?

Finally i was considering starting taining this year been qualified for 2012, however is waitibg a year, save some and start then a better option?

Thanks again

[B2N2]

As mentioned earlier, it's not about failing acourse of training.
It si failing to achive your ultimate goal.
I would estimate that of all the people that start with a PPL with the goal of making it to the Airlines, 80% do not make it.
Financial, family, girlfriend :eek: loss of motivation.
I would suggest you just start with your PPL.
You'll already have a better insight after completing it.

[MightyDucks]

i considered this but would this not be just a waste of money as it wouldnt help with future training

[Whirlygig]

Who on earth told you that? A marketing executive for an integrated training school?

If you embark on the modular route, you'll need a PPL.

Cheers

Whirls

[wheelbrace]

Whirlygig - I am astonished - do you really think FTOs would tell us half truths (ie whole lies?) about a course of action that could substantially line their pockets for the 'spectacularly brilliant imminent future of aviation' and 'of course we are not going out of business, despite what companies' house might say'?

I am truly shocked by your cynicism!

;)

[mutt]

making lots of money isn't important oh yes it is.... its all about money. The flying may be awesome, but at the end of the day, its all about lifestyle and money.

Mutt

[Piltdown Man]

Of those who start the process, most make it through the system and end up with some form of commercial licence. It's not easy, it requires loads of cash and will take 18 months or so. The biggest problem is getting the job. I'd suggest that the failure rate here is currently in excess of 90%. But worse than being unemployed, these people are destitute. They will probably have crippling debts and be unemployable in their chosen careers for years to come.

PM

[Whirlygig]

Cynical? Li'l ole moi? :O

Cheers

Whirls

[flyboy1818]

Flight training is a different story for everyone, for me its been a very hard fought reality, its involved working some crazy hours (mostly nights) followed by flying on all my days off for the past God knows how many months, I have now almost finished the course, but I know I could have done better if I was full time, but then I can't afford to be full time and I don't want to get into loads of debt.

If you are dedicated enough you WILL make it.

My advice is stay as clear of debt as you can and if possible try to keep a job down, I'm very grateful for my job, its my safety net and at the end of the day and if I don't get a flying job for the first couple of years then I won't be destitute like so many.

[MightyDucks]

Cheers flyboy 1818. i do have a trade but an only newly qualified one so i don't have much money saved yet. i would prefer to do a full time course as i think my results would be better but i think im gonna have to get into some debt to do it

[flyboy1818]

I agree the results will be better, its a personal choice. I decided to go the part time route as the whole debt thing just looked too scary to me.