EK Annual Results, EK Bonus, Emirates Profits etc

[Chewthecrude]

You are invited to attend the Annual Results staff briefing hosted by our Chairman and Chief Executive, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum.

Date: Wednesday, 12th May
Time: 11:45hrs (sharp)
Venue: EGHQ Atrium (2nd floor)



:ok:

[CAYNINE]

oh cool.... hmmmm wait up, oh yeah I'll be in India on my way back for a layover in Dubai.:zzz:

[halas]

I''l be asleep after an all nighter!

halas

[fatbus]

It will be attended by those who believe they are lucky to have a job. We did not get a raise so why would you expect anything else, hoping to be proven wrong . 15 weeks covers off the loss due to the 92 hr change

[donpizmeov]

Fatbus, you forgot to factor your numbers by the "1/5th of **** all" attitude that is needed to become an EK grown up. So that would reduce your 15 weeks to 3 weeks.

The Don

[Sataybox]

Even if I was on a day off, I wouldn't spend it listening to their lies and spin on "adjusted" numbers.

If there's a bonus, I'll know about it when it comes through on pay day.

[fatbus]

Don,

anything less than 15 weeks we are still in the hole not to mention no 3 % this year so we would have to give that a factor as well. Funny how we were given ample notice of the meeting as well, not that I would go , never been never will.

Not holding my breath

[BigGeordie]

Given that they usually try to bury bad news by announcing it on a Thursday afternoon at 1600 they must think they have something good to say. Whether the people on the coal face who worked so hard to produce last year's profit will agree is another matter.

[maimax]

announcing record profits on the back of the current workload and fatigue levels of operating crew (cabin and flight deck alike) or our engineers, is obscene.
no wit involved, no reason for pride, just state sponsored abuse, arrogance and shortsightedness.
some day, it will sting....it just has to

[777boyindubai]

Emirates announces $1.1bn net profit for 2009 - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/588006-emirates-profits-story-to-come)

[flareflyer]

DNATA got 25 days profit share having done 15% of the total profit.
I really want to see what they will give us.........

[a345xxx]

I heard 8 weeks of profit sharing bonus!!!!

[birdieonfirst]

Yeah, right...

:ok:BOF

[777boyindubai]

3 weeks:mad::ugh::{:yuk::*:(:=:eek:

[Instant Hooligan]

please tell me this is a joke?

[acegreaser]

woohoo....3 weeks

[EK-or-bust]

Just out: AED 4.2 billion profit & 3 weeks profit-share.
The only positive here is that they will have a jolly difficult time finding new pilots to recruit.
Now; what will the target be for this financial year? 5 bill?

[5star]

That felt really good didn't it?
Why don't you all bend over a bit more next year...

Sincere Regards,
A.A.R.

[acegreaser]

woohoo.... :eek::mad::yuk:

[EK-or-bust]

So they gave us less. 21 days. But then we only fly their shiny toys

[145qrh]

!@#$## ## ###$%^ &&& #@#@#

:ugh:

[Sataybox]

They never promised anything about always naming the profit TARGET at the beginning of the year and they never promised that even if they make BILLIONS, they'll share it commensurate with the size of the haul.

Lucky they never named a target - this way they can massage things a little so they don't do themselves an injury when they see how much they might have to "share" according to their "system."

[Instant Hooligan]

468mil last year, 1.1 bil this year and we get 3 weeks. it's about to get much worse online.

[InnocentBystander]

Now remember: We get profit share, management gets profit share PLUS bonus.

Guess which one's higher...

[M-rat]

A while ago, on this forum, a person with the handle: ManagementInMotion advised us collectively not to “bite the hand that feeds us”. Clearly a portent.

To paraphrase, he also stated that the recruiting problem was fuelled in part by bad press posted by EK pilots on this site. His solution was to tell us to stop telling the truth, allowing the company to deceive more pilots in to joining, thereby increasing manning levels and easing work pressure on us.

What a jackass.

With this Scrooge-like, inconsequential and trivial gesture of 3 weeks profit share - meted out from the second highest profit ever recorded by this company - our master has signalled his appreciation for our effort.

If EK Management thought we were unhappy before today… well, they haven’t seen anything yet. :uhoh:

Those nice little video clips regarding EK’s recruitment woes have been viral on this forum and they are well done. I recall a scene from the original film, The Right Stuff, whereupon one character stated: No bucks = No Buck Rogers. :=


This is a disgrace. :(

[CAVnotOK]

If nothing else EK will be giving a helping hand to the likes of Vietnam and Korean, or any other airline looking to recruit Type Rated pilots.

Cav.

[palm]

What a joke.......I go to the toilet, need to ...

[Instant Hooligan]

Cav,
Wait till the "sleeping giant" recovers. Our yankee brothers can't wait to jump ship it's only a matter of time.

[dadster]

Can anyone work out actual percentage/fraction of monthly salary for 3 weeks.....Dadster.

[Instant Hooligan]

The Employees of Emirates Airlines today announced huge losses for their financial year ending March 2010. The figure of $1.1 billion dollars net losses came about from reduced salary, loss of contractual pay increases, utilities payment cap, increased productivity threshold and an overall increase in hours worked.
A spokesperson for the employees said "one cannot begin to comprehend the lack of distrust,lack of motivation and general bad feeling that has been created by these losses".

[Kittty125]

Sad but true Chap, sad but true...

[neh13]

monthly salary x 12 / 52 = y . yx3= your profit share.

[CAVnotOK]

I really want to be here to see it happen, but............
I really don't want to be here!

What to do???

Cav.

[Craic Ore]

Getzo,

People always get this wrong. It's your monthly salary x 12 months / 52 weeks. Basic only.

But trust me, I still think it's disgraceful and sucks.

CO

[donpizmeov]

GEtzo...its your basic multiplied 12, divided by 52, and then multiplied by 3. So you get a bit more than your 15 days.

The Don

[InnocentBystander]

Now remember: We get profit share, management gets profit share PLUS bonus.

Guess which one's higher...

[oz in dxb]

It has been announced that the next target is 4.25 billion dirhams for this financial year.
Let's see......

[Rather Be Skiing]

If nothing else EK will be giving a helping hand to the likes of Vietnam and Korean, or any other airline looking to recruit Type Rated pilots.

Cav.

This has been the sentiment for a long time, but in reality I don't think, when push comes to shove, many will actually jump.

Emirates probably has the same expectation.

[Instant Hooligan]

So OZ we should really be truly thankful for our 3 weeks, cause next year if they only make the same AED 4.2 billion while we work ourselves ragged we'll get sweet F/A. See there's always a positive side.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Idle_Al_Retard]

Why you lazy Pilots so much complain! You have good job and nice Accommodations :bored: and you are so Lucky to be in my beautiful country! and now a GENEROUS gift from H.H.! You are all lucky to have Job :ugh:

We need more monyes for Local to enjoy good life and good job! :} also for debt reduction for all Country! :eek:

Now get back to work!! :(:E


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:a3HasQu3-A9DeM::americaninaraby.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mg_6402_chewing_qat.jpg

[Togalk]

Before you guys start bitching about how little your bonus is, remember that if its only 10 dhs, its more then us poor slobs at Etihad got.

[CAVnotOK]

Just remind me, how much profit did EY make?

[The Zohan]

You pay me the way I want, I work the way YOU want...

You pay me the way YOU want, I work the way I want...:mad:

tz

[GormanInkarnati]

Well that was a disappointment:mad::ugh:

[Fart Master]

Disgraceful:mad:

[skytrax]

very good point. 3 weeks is ok. it could be better but it is better than last year when we got :mad:

[dontevenjoke]

As for the guys at EY, I can't comment. Sorry boys.

As for us up the road I can comment. This 3 weeks "profit share" doesn't even cover 3 out of the 6 months I did overtime according to the new 92 hour rule!!! WTF!!!

No respect.

Whatever,
Joke

[Togalk]

Oh i'm sorry, were we talking bonus or Profit Share? And if you want to be like that, how many 100's of billions did AUH (Etihad) give to DXB (Emirates) to save it from going bankrupt?

[Leito]

Would it be possible to join all four threads into ONE, you guys all have great comments and it will be easier if there is just one thread as they all mention the same topic.

Cheers and remember that we love our job, we are not here for the money !!! ja ja ja AS IF !!!! :ugh:

[nolimitholdem]

hahahaha hilarious! As if you reached into your wallet and handed over the cash personally.

Educate yourself a bit.

Dubai is bust. Abu Dhabi is not.

Emirates is very profitable. Etihad bleeds money like a stuck pig.

AUH may have bailed out DXB, but it wasn't Emirates Airline that needed the money.

If you want what Emirates employees get, just apply for a job. They could use the people, what with those trying to leave. Otherwise you just sound like cabin crew who whine about pilots making more money than them for an entirely different job.

[xbleedstart]

Totally agree. What a complete joke. EK can go get :mad:.
As for the people who clapped at the meeting when this was announced....Losers:ugh:

[Leito]

Did you noticed that the screen behind was informing all of us in bullet points all those numbers about EK and DNATA, and yet the most important, THE NUMBER 3 was not there? :confused:

Also at the moment that it was anounced it wasn't very clear, some people next to me thought that he said 8 weeks, so I guess that the ones that clapped were not sure at what they were clapping to.

[ekwhistleblower]

I normally try to take the middle ground and try and apply some sense and logic but you know what, it really is true most of the contributers to the EK threads on Pprune are a bunch of whinging t*ssers!

Yep absolutely terrible! Tell you what go along to a pilot from Virgin, BA, Lufty, Air France or any of the US carriers and tell them that we have decided to give the average Captain an $8k bonus, I am sure they would all be slagging off the company too........not!

They didn't set a target and the profit was less than that set 2 years ago but elected to pay up. I'm off to enjoy the dosh!:yuk:

[EK380]

Excellent said ekwhistleblower! :ok:

[Instant Hooligan]

ands thats why we go backwards

[Father Jack Hacket]

WHAT! ONLY TREE

FE:mad:IN WEEKS!!???:yuk::yuk:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:vgpJHNUkGW86XM:http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/STARMAC1/fun%2520stuff/ted.gif

[CAVnotOK]

EKWHISLEBLOWER,

Just make sure that when you are spreading the news on how terrific EK is and how you are off to enjoy the "dosh" that you also let them know how our productivity and fatigue have gone through the roof and that your 8K is a fraction of what the company should have paid if they hadn't shifted the goal posts.

and then.......

Go and give yourself a good hard upper cut.

Cav.

[XIVIL4DEP]

You guys actually got a profit share???

[Sataybox]

I normally try to take the middle ground and try and apply some sense and logic

Here's some logic for you:

They know they made bucketloads of cash.
We know they made bucketloads of cash.
And they know we know they made bucketloads of cash.

So they acknowledge meeting the target (whatever it was) with the obligatory 2 weeks. They acknowledge grossly exceeding the target with the minimum extra of ONE more week.

Your BA pilot doesn't put up with the lies and dishonesty and and small-minded pettiness and back-stabbing we enjoy here and gets to live in (arguably) a civilised part of the first world.

Their B.S. bonus is meant to help compensate for the lifestyle sacrifices made by the foreigners who come here to earn the profit for these guys.

If you live in a dreamworld or fool's paradise where you're happy, then in a hat's off to you. We all do what we must to get by.

[Sataybox]

Oh i'm sorry, were we talking bonus or Profit Share? And if you want to be like that, how many 100's of billions did AUH (Etihad) give to DXB (Emirates) to save it from going bankrupt?

If you don't know the toic, maybe best to stay out of it.

I think it was 20 billion. "Hundreds"?? Do I care either way? Take a guess.

It's amusing to see someone is still living in a world where personal loyalty to these creeps is still a virtue. Or are you a local in an tribal d!ck-waving competition? If so, I don't think anyone here gives a **** about who's got the biggest/longest/tallest/fattest/loudest/stupidest whatever.

[Fellowship of the drink]

You know what EK? Keep the friggin 6% and the three lousy weeks.

I want my health back, I want my time with my family back, I just want to feel normal again. I am tired, I am grumpy and I am flying your hundred million dollar plane and possibly with your wife and children onboard.

Keep it, just give me back the 77 hours I signed up for !!!!!!!!!!

[EGGW]

Sorry guys, had to mash a few threads together, sorry if it doesn't read that well at times. The threads were sprouting like mushrooms...

EGGW.

[Chewthecrude]

A friend of mine went & suggested the applause was sincere. From the people that work in the office.

They hadn't had their hours increased (before overtime kicked in). Their yearly increment hadn't been taken away. They hadn't found themselves fatigued because they still worked exactly the same hours. In the same place.

So for exactly the same conditions they earnt 3 weeks bonus.

As for the average pilot our hours increased unilaterally (even the prospect of overtime to compensate for fatigue fell by the wayside). Our annual increment got taken away whilst the company made massive profits.

The fact is that many of the non flying personal in EK are happy. It's really only the pilots that are not & there are very valid reasons to that

[fatbus]

Why would any pilot want to attend that meeting, unless they wanted to make an exit statement

[donpizmeov]

Wow thanks for the kind words above there Getzo. I am very sorry that I tried to help you with your math blunder. :ugh: Shows what recruiting has come down to. Please don't let the door hit you too hard in the @rse on the way out.:E

The Don

[Craic Ore]

Well said Don. Waste of bandwidth relpying to this guy. I'll slag the company about the unjust crap, but will not lie to try and preach my case further. I'll leave that to our (un)esteemed management.

Adios Getz, thanks for the PM. Nice.

CO

[XceedVne]

Our profit share is contractual. It is not a bonus. It is part of what we signed up for. Part of our package. In essance when the company is doing poorly you will be paid less than when the company does well. We get paid less salary than the EY guys partly because of this. Employees are entitled to (promised) 25% of any profit above the target. It is a very simple calculation. This is not supposed to be negotiable. Unfortunately the rules have been rewritten.

[thefoxandfirkin]

What I find particularly disgusting and rather ironic about this 3 weeks is that it equates to the amount of weeks most staff in the company have taken upaid!!:=:= There only getting back what they gave up.

As for 'da management' well don't forget they get their multiplier on that figure..what was it, I need refreshing, was it a 3x multiplier for 11s and 6x for higher grades...:yuk:

As for the clapping, are these people just darn stupid?

3 weeks won't get fox much firkin beer :*:*

[GNL]

.... I read in the papaer MF has kindly pointed out " that EK has to foot the bill for some 600 million dollars in social costs, which includes the housing of its flight staff, "

sorry cant stop laughing....GIVE US BASINGS AND IT WOULD BE FREE!!!!! :ugh:

[777boyindubai]

I wonder how many of us will find out that the 3 weeks will exactly equal the utililities bill in excess of the dishonest unilateral cap that they imposed. :confused:

[troff]

You no, I tink 'dat it's OK, da profit share ting. Ay, it's better dan nuttin.
Da las plase I work, da guys, las week, dey get 50% pay cut. A pay CUT!
An if you dwn like it, dan you can "frappé la rue", well it dwn translate but da guy 'e said "it da road if you dwn like it, cause I wanna be like dat odder guy dat run a hairline in dis town an get a 19 year ol' girlfrien' and a Ferrari- so all you guys just f**k off, eh?"
Before dat we got one year a baseball 'at at da Christmas dinner and after dat one year we got a backpack on da seat! Great, eh?
Somewhere in between I get a "Swiss Harmy Nife", but we all 'ad dem taken by security da nex day...
Tabernac.

[EK380]

XceedVne,

you are right ! Except that there was NO TARGET set....!

[EK-or-bust]

Average Captain gets $8K in profit share?
Joined in early 2000, checked left seat after 36 months & the ps is $ 6,700

[BobDole]

I second that!

[LongExcursion]

When you read about a shmarmy little French SALESMAN at goldman sachs who gets rewarded with bags of sweaty cash for using deceipt, cunning and subterfuge to sell toxic waste to whoever was foolish enought to buy it (and supposedly contributed to the reason our super fund crapped itself in recent years passed) and then compare that with the bonus we've just been paid for safely transporting 100's of 1000's of blissfully ignorant passengers (amongst them likely to have been the very same people selling the toxic waste), with professionalism, an intense duty of care and responsibility to the safety and comfort of economy, business and first class alike, it doesnt help my cynicism any.
The only silver lining I can grasp is at least it comes duty-free. Urgh!

[BigGeordie]

EK does not foot the bill for social costs. It comes off your salary. If you don't live in company accommodation you get the utilities allowance which gives you a salary you can directly compare with back home, where you pay your own housing costs. If you do live in company accommodation you don't get the allowance. The reason you can no longer move out and rent your own place is that the places they allocate to you cost less than the utilities allowance would be. For the benefit of those not familiar with the EK housing situation it is worth empahasising that you don't get a choice where you live and you cannot change it once it is allocated.

The only "social costs" EK have to meet is the cost of getting us to work and back (which is contractual or I'm pretty sure it would have gone by now) and our health insurance. I suppose they have the cost of our annual leave tickets- unless you are American and they have changed your destination. Even the cost of our families insurance is deducted from our salary.

I didn't read the article but please tell me MF was not complaining about how hard and expensive it is to run an airline in Dubai?:ugh:

[Dropp the Pilot]

Has it been said with which salary it will be received?

[BigGeordie]

It will be in the May salary, along with the pay rise.

[The Turtle]

Lucky they never named a target - this way they can massage things a little so they don't do themselves an injury when they see how much they might have to "share" according to their "system."

They didn't set a target and the profit was less than that set 2 years ago but elected to pay up.


EK did set a target, you can read about it here:

Emirates on track to reach FY profit aim | INTERNATIONAL AVIATION NEWS (http://www.aviationnews.eu/2010/03/14/emirates-on-track-to-reach-fy-profit-aim/)

[troff]

Go 'ome...

[Aussie]

Till they run dry of 200hr bare cpl holders wanting to fly shiney jets.... they will not listen. Listening is optional... :}

[ManagementMotion]

And once more the EK pilot fraternity are not satisfied.

How many airlines have turned a profit this year? How many have given any form of bonus or profit share? How many pilots have been layed off in one form or another?

3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year.

I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%

As pointed out: Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably it will have undesired repercusions.

[Mister Warning]

Management-sh!t,
You can take the hand that feeds you, make a fist, and shove it up your ar$€.

[EGGW]

Guys, before this gets outta hand, please spot a wind up for what it is :=

EGGW.

[dustyprops]

Mister Warning that is hilarious, nice one mate, laughed me 'ead off. I think the mod is right tho (and it pains me to say it!) it's gotta be a wind up.

However the fact that mm has bothered to post with that cr@p suggests that he possibly could believe the sh!te that he writes. In fact refer to Mister Warning's previous post (still making me laugh).

[yada.yada.yada]

@ Turtle

They did not set a profit target for the purposes of profit share (last year).

[ManagementMotion]

Thank you to the moderator for quelling the inevitable hysterics of outrage. I will ignore the less couth as it merely indicates the measure of the man.

Choose to believe what you will. The facts however are the facts, as much as anyone may not like it. The overall adjustment to the yearly salary by virtue of increments and bonus is OK in anyone's book.

As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable. That will involve adjusting remuneration to a level that is a minimum cost without large scale migration of skilled workers.

This objective has been achieved. It will remain stable as the successful recruitment of required numbers indicates.

Some may move on as is their right. Most will not. If the balance changes the package will be adjusted. It is that simple. Its business.

Can you blame any manager for working to his directive any more than a captain can be blamed for ensuring saftety?

[Saltaire]

Herein lies the problem, and what many people take issue with - a compartmental company with all these managers working for his/her directive to line their own pockets.... every man for himself MM.:=

Just an extension of the ME, no heart no soul. Business, Greed. Period.

Thanks for the profit share, have a nice day.

[Schibulsky]

Hi ManagementMoron,

how many airlines made a Billion profit?
the other airlines got it fixed in their contracts how much bonus they will pay for whatever profit. They dont rely on some guys in funny dresses to decide it :p
how many airlines changes the contracts unilaterally at their will?
how many airlines give tripple/quadrupel/whateverupel bonuses to their blown up VP corps?

3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year.
I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%
Where did you go to school dude? Thats not 10% increase:ugh:
Thats a one time bonus plus a 6% increase thats already eaten up by the "productivity adjustments" and the inflation!
And they dont talk about the "state of aviation"...its about EK!!

btw EK constantly bites the hands that produces the profits!

[sheikmyarse]

I feel sorry for you Management Motion.
I think the only motility you should talk of is the one of your intestine.
You are just and simply taking advantage of large unaccountability ( but not complete) and of the ununionized environment.
I just checked some old paylsip from my previous company.
My gross salary in 2004 was an avarage of 7000 euros wich gave a me a net 4500 x 14 months plus real for life pension contribution, health care, and insurance.
This idea of accounting as social costs accommodation it is ilarious as the accommodation itself.
You have to realize that notwithstanding all the marketing attempt Dubai is and will always be a overheated cesspool where only desperate and unemployed people can think of moving, or idiots that did not listen to what was written on this forum like me when it was time.
But don't worry, we are committed to do our best to let the civilized world know about your clever stratagems and slavery like methods. As some EU operator affirms you are operating with a substantial unfairly competitive advantage. Paying a ramp agent 550 usd and make him sleep in a labor camp in the outskirt of the desert is a too easy way to compete with real employers bearing real social costs and contributing to real economy. Your profit just goes in the pockets of the funny dressed guy owning the place substantial slaver and exployter of the poor.
You and every EK employee in magement position should feel ashamed of working for such an organization and profiting from it. EK is a low cost airline carrying disinehrited people around the world. Just kind of a modern slave trader. Take any and each five dirham note from your bonus ans stick it up into your arse... along with the fist.
I'll see you soon in Geneva.. we are working on it my dear.

[Sataybox]

Hello BowelMotion, thank you for keeping this very therapeutic thread running a little longer than it would have, and also for pointing out the painfully obvious facts, in case anyone didn't get it yet.

While your piss-taking posts are not as amusing as EKManagement's, they do still serve a purpose most likely lost on many of the herd here: to continue raising the issues, including by use of satire, which concern us all.

Please write another EKManagement post; it's about time! :ok:

[sheikmyarse]

forgot to mention what the funny dressed guys do with the money:

They build ******* palm shaped island in the middle of the sea ,an environmental disaster, and they manage to make a 80 billion dollar hole in the water.This makes all the story even more immoral.

[Sataybox]

EK did set a target, you can read about it here:

Thanks for that. Did you happen to notice the date of the article? Very helpful! :ok:

[Fuzz Lightbeer]

MM, always interesting to have your "unique perspective" aired in this forum. I'll address some of your points though in the past you have proven yourself quite selective in responding to individual points raised here.

And once more the EK pilot fraternity are (sic) not satisfied. How many airlines have turned a profit this year? How many have given any form of bonus or profit share? How many pilots have been layed (sp) off in one form or another?

3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year. I doubt many airline pilots can claim a (sic) increase of over 10%

Point taken. This was a horrible year for airlines and I will agree that the general trend in the industry was down for employee compensation. What many of us object to is to be told that Emirates avoided layoffs and paycuts. This is simply not true. In the latest Fleet Facts, AS admitted that the entire profit was driven by cost cuts. The burden borne by your crew, cockpit and cabin was in my opinion disproportionate. The cockpit crew took a significant hit in terms and conditions, some of which was a direct violation of our contracts. The pay increase and bonus do not make up for this but what is even more infuriating is the way this has been portrayed by those of you in the ivory tower. Not once were we told, it's going to be a hard year - we all have to tighten our belts. We were instead told that the airline was "reducing its carbon footprint", "given the level of ULR flying, current thresholds for productivity payments are unrealistic (I'm paraphrasing)" and my favorite, "even though your contract says 42 days, it really only means 30." The way this was "managed" is an abject lesson in LACK OF LEADERSHIP. Recent communications from our "leadership" indicates that while this is an expat job with supposedly "expat benefits", the company resents providing those benefits. We are continually told about our obligations to our employer, usually through veiled threats like that below, yet the company fails to fulfill its obligations to us, through our contracts or just through lack of duty of care. I refer to continued brushing off of legitimate fatigue issues - the latest being that if it's legal, it's safe. I have never worked anywhere that when legitimate safety issues are brought up to our "leaders" in a calm and unemotional manner that those issues are met with bluster, denial and threats. If you really wonder why Emirates pilots are so pissed off, I suggest that you consider that rather than resort to your tired rationale of some mass personality disorder.

As pointed out: Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably (sp) it will have undesired repercusions.(sp)

And that pretty much sums up the Emirates management model, "shut up and do what your told - or else." Certainly the market is in your favour right now though given the state of the market, it is interesting that Emirates is having difficulty recruiting flightdeck. A more long-term view would suggest that to disenfranchise the single largest workforce that has disproportionate responsibility for the safe and efficient operation of the airline is just bad business.

To sum up, the company overdid it. It reduced its costs enormously on the backs of its line employees and did not even have the grace to acknowledge it. The damage that has been done to morale is difficult to quantify - and I'm talking company wide, everyone that I talk to (not just pilots and flight attendants) is completely demoralized - and the fallout will continue for years.

(I suggest you check over what you write before you send it as poor spelling and grammar do take away from the effectiveness of your arguments.)

[Flying Spag Monster]

Profit Share..what profit share? My rough calculations indicate to me that I gave up 85K this last year with loss of productivity and a missing step. So when I am graciously given about 28K of it back, am I supposed to be happy?? I tried that with my dog, gave him a bag of biscuits to eat, much tail wagging. Then I took them all away, very unhappy. But he went crazy when I gave him just one biscuit back...

I am not a dog.

[XceedVne]

Please everyone, stop referring to it as a bonus. Its not. It is our entitlement. 1. The profit target is to be set by the company. 2. Employees are to receive 25% of all profit over that. The company has this in writing for everyone to read. We as employees EARNED our share of the profit just as the company EARNED its 4,200,000,000.00 The company did not BONUS 4.2. We all got snookered. P.S. A bonus is on top of what I was promised to be making. I have a very very long way to go before I get anything that could be remotely considered a bonus.

Also don't MM don't ever ever equate Profit to Safety. That is wrong on so many levels. :=

[ManagementMotion]

I hear the arguments but they lack substance.

Pay has not dropped. Work has gone up.
Is it unreasonable to expect the current hours for the package? If it is, then why are so many still here and more joining. I assume they consider it a fair trade.

Is it unreasonable for a company to maximise productivity? Actually it is their duty.

Vague ideas of reduced safety margins lack statistical evidence.

Concerns on morality are simply opinions. Companies operate on legalities. If there is any breach then take it through correct channels and let them decide.

Efficiency gets better and better. The annual results show that too. Economics of scale and fine tuning of remuneration far outweigh any inefficiencies that the pilots may observe or "fallout" from morale damage

The wicked local lining his pockets is another slanted argument. Many companies from these so called ethical bastions of the western world are flocking to the UAE to get a slice of the action. Cheap labour. Are they all badly run with imbeciles as managers? Are they setting the ethical tone?

Finally the debt argument. Of course! That is the proof I missed. Thank you for putting it in bold red. Of course we must ignore the fact that the Euro is collapsing under debt levels that make the UAE's look like pocket change. Likewise with the USA. (By the way what is BP currently doing to the Gulf of Mexico? Did they build a Palm?) These countries have no sovereign wealth reserves to help. We will pass you on our way up...

Stop wishing the world was the way you would like it to be and see it as it is. Stop grumbling about morals, responsibilities and corporate behaviour. Emirates is a saint compared to many American companies that thrive on the killing, maiming or poisoning of millions.

Besides I assume your own ethical dilemas dont extend beyond the moaning. After all you are all still here flying the logo.

Fly safe.

[break dancer]

Yes profit share for last year was only announced in Jan 2010, so it gave the bean counters plenty of time to massage the figures even more towards the company's favour.

The bonus is mentioned in the contract, so who gives a ..... what other companies do or don't pay out to their employess. Not that the contract means much these days.

Also, does anyone know whether the "bonus" will be paid on the old salary, or the new one ( I won't even call it an increase....) Only about Dhs 1500 difference, but it will be better in my pocket than elsewhere.

[Dropp the Pilot]

the old salary

'twas ever thus

[Taylor01]

Quote:
As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable....

Well as far as pilots are concerned , our main goal is "To transport customers from one place to another place SAFELY, first!!!" If your main goal is to make money then you will see the results when a plane in bent due to the overworking and lack of respect for us. Maybe you, MM, and your fellow co-workers should think about this little post.

[Mister Warning]

Here here, Taylor. :ok:

[nolimitholdem]

MM,

The problem with your arguments is that you attempt to sidestep the morality issue completely, as conveniently twisting your logic as any good EK manager to suit your purposes. You state that companies operate solely on legalities, but then claim sainthood for your own while attempting to vilify the evil American ones. Well, which is it? Is morality removed or not? Your own arguments lack not only substance but logic.

There ARE no correct channels in the UAE. There is no credible legal system. So there will always be more subversive methods of dissent under such regimes. PPrune is just one of the more entertaining ones - but there are others. The best service PPrune provides is ensuring those with a bit of intelligence will think a bit before swallowing your lies.

I do appreciate your highlighting the whole problem with Emirates' shockingly bad approach to risk management. As usual you are relying on the fact that a negative can't be proven: there's been no smoking hole yet so running crews to limits (which were unilaterally raised by the company) must be fine! It violates the entire concept of trying to keep operations as far away from the edge of the safety envelope as possible - EK seems intent on going the other direction, seeing how far things can go before they break. I guess the only way to find out is wait until that point has been crossed. Crude and tragic, but hey that's quite apropos to Dubai I suppose!

I only hope that you get a chance to experience the fallout of that inevitable day, with a little luck you'll be on board the aircraft. But that's probably too much to hope for.

Just a suggestion...talk of "passing you on the way up" only reveals your arrogance and projects your feelings of inferiority. The UAE will never be even a shadow of what it envies, because what you want to be cannot be bought or stolen. You don't even really understand it and never will.

[dustyprops]

S.Staynes,

I totally agree with you on the fatigue issue. It is frightening how tcas seems to want to discredit all the asr's received via the weekly scribe. Also if you look at the asr's in that weekly thing we get, all fatigue reports are generally listed as 'low threat'!?!?! If they care two sh!ts about flight safety as they claim to then they have a funny way of showing it.

It smacks of amateur management, fire fighting what is a dire situation, brought on by p!ss poor management and greed.

[ruserious]

What MM and other managers around here seem to forget is that Aviation regulations, FTL's and policies are written in blood. They are the condensed wisdom and experience gained from many accidents, incidents and ultimately loss of life.
While they can bend and manipulate standards and recommended procedures every which way on a daily basis, someday there will be a price to pay for their casual attitude to industry best practice and regulation.

[thefoxandfirkin]

Mr Management bottom lotion,

I know for a fact you're real EK management, how do I know? That's because having worked for EK for a good while I know that what your peddling is completely consistent with the message which comes out of the HR remuneration machine.

Unfortunatley whilst you believe that EK is consistently recruiting the people it needs and wants, I think you need to look around at your outposts. More and more staff there are joining unions, why because they are sick of being shafted over a barrel (not a firkin one neither).

I read about Dnata buying the Plane Handling division of Go Ahead in the UK before xmas 2009. Those hundreds of ground handling staff at LHR, MAN & LGW are all union represented and will not take terms and conditions changes being brought in through the back door lightly. Mark my word its only a matter of time before this company starts to see serious industrial action taking place. The growth makes it inevitable.

Why are us pilots not allowed basings outside of DXB? Simple, forget all the arguments, its primarily because EK management are s*it scared we'll join unions and disrupt ops.

The tide is turning though, the word is out, EK is not the place is was 10 years ago. I've tried to take a balanced view of things over the years but so much has happened in the last two in terms of T&C changes, there is little loyalty left amongs flight deck crew. I'm sure we'll see this with other staff too.

Like I said in that earlier post, that pathetic 3 week payout was simply the company returning the money staff lost through unpaid leave/extra unpaid hours.

The money bucket is low and the sh*t bucket reaching capacity....:mad:

[ManagementMotion]

Get over yourselves! Please!

There are company and legal channels. Most are too stupid or too busy moaning to actually do anything. Collectively you could not agree to get drunk together!

The "inevitable" accident is no more likely than with any other operator. That one is wearing a bit thin.

As for the blabber about some sort of industrial action. That will be more entertainment than we have had for a long time. I give it 24 hours and everyone will creep back to work with their tails between their legs.

Does anyone have anything intelligent or original to say?

P.S. Feel free to take all the fuel you wish and use reversers as you see fit. I doubt your little "preservation" routine will do much to change anything. Most do what is expected.

[trent1974]

MM,

I am not managment, nor do I aspire to be.

I am just another "pee-on" pilot, much like the ones who have been berating you on this thread.

As much as it pains me to admit it, you are bang on with everything you have said.

[Saltaire]

With his last post, MM is obviously not of any significant position. Aggressive and crude. No appreciation, no respect for fellow workers. Close the thread. Yawn.

[EGGW]

I feel like a broken record repating this, but this MM guy is firmly yanking your (collective) chains.

By the look of things, some of you are taking the bait, hook line and sinker :ugh::ugh: :=

EGGW

[BigGeordie]

Of course he is yanking our chains- there is no way EK management would post on PPrune- although I'm damn sure they are aware of what is on here.

The sad thing is everything the guy writes is absolutely spot on.:(

[BashedatEK]

Hey Guys

Don't forget the massive redundancy and demotions that were made by EK in the last 9 months. They sacked over 600 people in IT, similar numbers at the airport not to mention DNATA Agencies where 100's were sent home without a single note.

I challenge any executive to refute these facts and make a statement on oath that EK Group did not fir some many Asians.

Check the number of down gradings that have been done by them in all areas managed by GC and his cronies.

[BashedatEK]

I am surprised at the fact that they make tall claims about staff being their biggest asset. What a Shame that they do not accept the fact that massive redundancy took place in Group Services Departments and DNATA Agencies as well as Airport. Not content with that they embarked on a aggressive down grading project.

Shameless is it not.

Let them make a statement that there were no redundancies of permanent staff and that too who had put in over 10 to 15 years of service.

[Masha]

Guys have you noticed an improvement in your roster?

[Snake man]

Absolutely! Only 91 hard hours this month! Feels like Christmas! :yuk:

SM

[ennui]

I'm so lucky my wife has let my kids go on face book. Now I get to talk to them more often.

When I'm at "home", all I do is sleep. . . . zzzzzzzzzzz

80 odd hours this month with 9 days leave.

Living the dream.

Gotta wake up soon.

[guntslapper]

Nothing ever really changes around here....

YouTube - A day in the life - Part 1.m4v (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziFao5FlRpw)

[sheikmyarse]

I:ok::D Could not stop laughing....keep up the good job.

[ekwhistleblower]

Excellent, loved it!

[EFC 3 DAYS]

I know what position MM has. He's cabin crew. And a bitter one at that.
Responding to his BS is a waste of time. Ignore him and soon enough you will find his rantings will become less frequent. By responding to his idiotic postings you guys are enabling the moron.
Just ignore the little man.........

[XceedVne]

Off the thread
I have heard guys hitting their 900 hours and the company moving their vacation foreward and forcing vacation, since they can't fly them. Anyone else hear this?

[Nuuk]

Not everyone is disappointed in the profit share, just go on youtube and search sheikh zayed road madness (or link: YouTube - Sheikh Zayed Road Madness! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNhp8nQqqrI)) and see some of the celebrations after the announcement!