Bala Murali's FTO questions (Merged)

[bala_murali]

Hey there people
I joined this forum about 2 weeks back and the information that I got through you guys were awesome. Did go through many of the threads and got load of information. From what I have read and heard I have narrowed down my choice as mentioned below,
1. CTC WINGS ACADAMY NEW ZEALAND
2. BRAMPTON FLIGHT ACADAMY ,CANADA
3. DELTA CONNECTIONS ACADAMY,USA
4. PHOENIX EAST ,USA
5. INTERNATIONAL AVIATION ACADAMY OF NEW ZEALAND (IAANZ)
6. BASAIR, AUSTRALIA

I am from India, I am an engineering graduate, I have worked in dell computer for 2 years and I am 24 years old now. I have kept CTC as my first option because of the placement assistance that they offer. I have applied for Cathy pacific cadet program also (no reply as of yet). Which brings me to option 2, that is in case I don’t get selected in both these cadet programs. Brampton’s feedback seems to be good. thirdly delta connections academy and phoenix east aviation have a f1 visa program which gives a 1 year work permit after I finish the course with a instructor rating there. And it seems in a f1-visa program we are allowed to work part in-campus. The school administrative officers told that they might be able to find me some in-campus jobs. Didn’t get a confident voice from them!! My sister is a Green card holder in USA, IS THAT OF ANY ADVANTAGE TO ME IN SECURING LOANS AND STUFF?? IAANZ and basair gained an OK kinda perspective from me so kept them as my last option. The plus point with the last 2 option is that I will be able to work part-time here.
FROM THESE OPTION I NEED TO NARROW DOWN TO ONE OR MAXIMUM TWO.HERE WHERE YOU GUYS COMIN.
My condition is that I will be taking a education loan for almost the full course fee. I will be doing my course till the instructors rating in which ever school I do my training in as airline jobs are a thing of the past right now. Need to get employed as an instructor as soon as I finish my course to start paying off the loans back here in India. Also need to do a part time job while studying to take care of my food accommodation charges and if possible a part of my interest for the loan I take in India.
CAN ANYONE HERE HELP ME TO NARROW DOWN MY OPTION WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERINCE IN THIS AVIATION FIELD.DO TELL ME EVEN IF YOU HAVE OTHER SCHOOLS IN MIND THAT WOULD HAVE A BETTER PROSPECT IN MAKING ME GETTING JOBS.
THANKS FOR YOU TIME IN READING SUCH A LONG POST .

[Aerouk]

Are you aloud to train/work in USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand/UK?

Do you have the right to work in any of these countries? You can narrow the list down if you want, but if you aren't allowed to work in the countries you have no chance.

[I8UU8ME]

hey bala im from mumbai tooo , indian .

ref to ur sister being a green card holder most schemes for US green card holders are for their own self education/development ! soooooo unless shes taking up a product like a personal loan for education actually stating needs for ur education not sure if she will be offered a lower APR/Interst !! however Most companies in US offer easy credit card options tht she could apply and give u a add onn card for payment to ur school via it !! ( a friend did it this way !! ) could be done online if an option or once you are actually down to the school but you will end up paying 6-7 % extra everytime plus loose out on exchange rate values but tht seems the quickest bet to get ur cash flow sorted besides she would have 60 days to pay it off !! in installments of 2.5 % of total value of charge made to ur add onn card every month!

cathay pacific are not big on hiring indian national as cadet pilots :) its for a fact ! my dad is a senior GULF AIR PILOT on the 330 n trust me its not worth sitting and applying for endless hours on the cx SITE .

you would be better off to apply for singapore as they are really big on accepting indian candidates !

we seem to sail in the same boat ! im looking at options between

Jerez FTE as they have excellent pacakage and post course support and tie ups with international airlines to assist indian nationals with a job ( ref 12 indian pilot frnds )

oxford quite upscale as we all know it but a great record in asisting students with a lot of airlines !

ctc i read on this site and ctc website they have a great package and post course asisstance so its equally promising

as u se all my 3 options are jaa schools , i think personally i feel jaa student pass outs in india in the current scenerio gives us time to get a really good licence compared to FAA ( I MIGHT BE PISSING A LOT OF PPL BY SAYING THIS BUT WHEN IN ROME ROMANS KNOW BEST ! , IN INDIA I TRULY CAN VOUCH JAA IS PREFERRED OVER A FAA AS WE HAVE TONS AND TONS OF FAA FRESH CPL HOLDERS SO JAA FRESH GUYS ALWAYS STAND OUT COS ITS A MUCH DETAILED COURSE with a far better recognition BESIDES YOU KNOW HOW INDIANS WORK " MORE THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE .... IS BEST ATTITUDE ! Sooo i guess u get my pt here ) and u are investing in a more time on a jaa to a faa and seriously its a better idea looking at the market in india so i personally think u do a licence for once so do a good one no matter if its a lil more expensive !

besides looking at the prospects of getting a job once ur done ! ahhhhh i think jaa is still better offfff in any case if ur looking to work in india u will have to convert ur licence to a dgca india and than think abt any type rating if u think ur getting a job anywhere in india .... soo think prudentially into the future !!!

airlines in india are picking up again ! n look around u ! wht do u think u want to hear ?

an airline in asia pacific region actually told a frnd who did his faa cpl tht we dont accept faa licence holders as expats toooo .... go get urself a jaa atpl

my comments here might attract a lot of negative comments ha ah but hey u know we live here so we know best whts happening !!!


hey could u brief me more about ctc any info u think is essential from an indian students point of view?

[I8UU8ME]

80 % of india fresh pilots flying now have done a faa AND than come back to india and convert it to dgca....... so not always we indians train abroad to get a job outside india... not necessarily.... could be good if u get a job anywhere ! but most come back and convert it !!!






yes to work in usa/canada/nz/europe u need to have a right to work and live !! no doubt abt this !

[bala_murali]

except in USA that if i go in with a M1 visa i will not be allowed to work neither inside or outside the campus . But there are some F1 visa program to in the above mentioned academies so i would be allowed to work part time in campus during my course of study. in the other countries apart from USA i would be allowed to work part time during my course of study both inside and outside campus . international students( that is if you hold a student visa) are allowed to work 20 hours a week part time during their course of study .this is the info i got from immigration websites.

[I8UU8ME]

hey could u brief me more about ctc any info u think is essential from an indian students point of view?
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/misc/progress.gif

[bala_murali]

Hi I8UU8ME
If I tell my sis you apply for a credit card the only thing I will be saved from is the exchange rate. I did understand of how it helps me other than this?? Would it be costing me more? Till date i have only a Debit card with me .Never went to credit card...Hehehe...
I have been checkin the Singapore airline website for a very long time and the eligibility requirement. It asks for a Singapore citizenship.
In your post FTE Jerez and oxford are the schools mentioned .which I the third one. Haven’t even made an attempt to think of JAA license since people told me it’s too costly forget it!! . Will check these schools too.
And still how CTC is the best option I got. Check this site. I was contact by one of the personal of the selection desk and had a short 15 mins telephonic interview. Believe me there are heck a lot of confusion when it come to CTC selection process in India. The person on the phone told me that they are yet to give a selection date or even there is a chance that we might be going to new Zealand for the selection process.. Imagine that...LOL... whatever may be case my advice is apply for it . IT’S FREE. Then we will check where the boat takes us. Airline Pilot Training with CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/india/) ...I have applied there keeping 2 things in mind, training quality and placement, other than that I don’t know anything about this institution.
GOOD TO KNOW THAT I AM NOT SAILING ALONE. LOL.

[I8UU8ME]

on a credit card payment you could end up paying a little more on each transation you do ( abt 5 percent more on ur total cost of your course )!! but in comparison to what you would pay for a personal loan back home it would e much lesser ! as i read ur planning to take a education loan...... they would certainly ask u for a suitable collateral equal to the amount of your loan..... but mind it all banks in india would only give you maximum of about 20 lakhs of loan for education abroad even if ur house cost 60 lakhs they would keep a property worth 60 lakhs mortgage but give u only 20 lakhs and thts not even close too ur payment for a school fees in OXFORD OR CTC WING ( THE 3RD SCHOOL THT I WAS REFFERING TO IN MY EARLIER POST WAS CTC) OR JEREZ FTE, Or for tht matter a school in USA cos when u convert 20 lakhs in euros its roughly 34000 euros only !!! so ur missing another 35 k euro !! for your course fee + minimum of 10 k euros for ur personal expenses !!! soooooooo educational loan hmmm im not sure how good an idea it is !! on the contrary ur still cool with pursuing a educational loan so u should count 20 lakhs sure credit from a bank ..... the benefit is u have 3 yrs to pay it back or as soon as u get a job !! ( 18 months jaa course plus roughly 1 year more ... thts the usual term of a bank.... course tenure plus 1 year for repayment or as soon as u get a job ! ... stick to the former condition !! insist its best that way !!! )

managing the other 45 k euro..... could be possible if u could supplement it in two other banks.... 4 laks each ( so tht makes it 8 lakhs more) condition is ... lollll .... all three banks have to be un aware of u taking any loan from the other !!! ... cos in india a student can apply for a loan in maximum of abt 4 banks !!!! at a time !!! u dont have to submit any collateral for loan upto 4 lakhs if ur a student .... but depneding on ur parents finance or ur guarantors financial return ( income tax..bank statements etc )..... u would be asked to submit a third party guarantee..... so first party is u ! second party are ur folks/sister ....third party is family but not immediate or friends etc..... if a bank asks u to pay any collateral for loan upto 4 lakhs just outright reject it !!! and walk out !! /negotiate...... as per Reserve Bank of India norms ..... there is absolutely noooo collateral required for loans upto 4 lakhs !!!!!!!


sooo if all falls in place for u !!! u have 28 laksh with u !!!! im sure this example will jus help u clear the air.....

sinc ur sis is in US ..... a typical us credit card credit limit is roughly 4000-10000 usd soo gaining atleast 2 would jus put u in the right place... she could pay the scholl online or.....jus ask her credit card company for an add onn card !! and you could pay as u go per week or month in your course !! that way u have more control of ur finances !!


also.... looking at a 20 lakh sum in USD its 45,000 ...SO THT IS MORE HELP TO PAY FOR UR COURSE !!!.... BUT looking at prospects.... once ur back....within 8 or 9 months....doing a FAA tht most airlines are treating as second class to a JAA.... hmmm think what u should do !!!

ctc wings has great placement record !

so does jerez.... and oxford is jus great at it too....

but i am just waiting to hear from some one here or in my contacts to tell me.... whoo is @ edge in the market now !! ..... i realize there are probably no jobs right now... but sure my course is not getting over next sunday ! its going to take 18 months !!!! thts roughly 2 yrs later im gona apply for a job !! since the courses prices are at a low ! jus do my training now than when jobs pick up and schools decide to hike up costs again.... and trust me... euros and pounds are running at a 8 year low in india !!!! thanks to NATIONAL STOCK EXCHANGE AND MUMBAI STOCK EXCHANGE HITTING A 10 YEAR HIGH !!..... Soooo even aftr 2 yrs if ur planning to come back to india ull need a little over 7 months to convert ur licence... so there u go.... as the BIGGIES ON THIS SITE say.... its all going to pick up in 2012...2013 ish !! ha ha ur right on track !!!!

( phew i jus spilled a theory out ... and it atleast makes sense in india ).......

and aftr u have ur indian licence..... converted so thts 2 yrs jaa course + 8 months indian licence , You RUSH TO CAE MADRID for your type rating .... if u have a offer !! only if u have a offer i recommend !!! 3 other airlines are opeaning up in india
... 2 in south ..... 1 in delhi ... all have secured Operating Certificates.... Spicejet gets its licence to fly int in 1yr six months ( orignally called royal airways....under which it runs....) indigo.... in 3 yrs..... paramount in 3 yrs !! sooo ur heading all good !!

so 320 if u decide its another 3 months or 4 .... welll... sit back and jus look at it with a view ur going to step in the boom of aviation in 2013 with a licence and its never wrong to think a little positive.... no the critics on this site should really support this as.... we are nto talking abt getting ur licence tomorrow but aftr 3 yrs ! soooo pursue it if ur really rearing to go this long :)

cheers
riche:)
site.... i8u..u8me...im back !

[bala_murali]

that cool dude.. Now that's a confidence building post . good one 18uu8me

[sunny441]

Ditch the thoughts about flight school for now. consider getting yourself a masters degree at a good university in the US or Australia. Will be much better and open more doors for you - as far as obtaining residency and work permits too.

Apply to schools that have good Graduate programs - and earn a graduate assistantship, that will pay for you tuition. Some reputed universities have flight programs and you can learn to fly on the side and earn your ratings by the time your degree is done.

My 2 cents.

Cheers and good luck.

[bala_murali]

hi sunny

i have thought about what you have said too . There are universities offering diploma and degree for aviation .i did gather some information about it . many told that they mainly concentrate on theory subjects than the actual flying. And when you looking out for a job as a pilot many said that the flying hours that you bag has more value than a master degree in aviation. And checked the cost of master degree in Embry riddle and Massey university the cost are unreachable . Would like to know how much it would cost to do a master degree in aviation in a normal university if you know ?? Also i did my bachelor degree in the field of electrical and electronics ..so is it possible for me too do a masters degree in aviation without a bachelor's degree in the same field . I am 24 years old right now.So i thought doing another bachelor's degree for a another 4 years would make me too old to search for a job as a pilot . these are the reasons why i didnt think in lines of a degree to achieve my dream to become a pilot ..
WOULD LOVE TO KNOW YOUR VIEWS ON THIS ..AND THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY

[sunny441]

Time to take the blinders off and look around you. Why are you restricting yourself to getting a masters in Aviation? Get a masters in Electronics, computer science or whatever makes you happy. Most airlines do not care where you learn your flying at or have a bachelors in that field.

They are more interested in your flight hours and your background. A college degree - tells them that you are capable of working hard and sticking with a program. Have you stopped to think for a minute - what if you sunk your (or your parents) hard earned money and then don't end up with a "jet job" ? With the masters - you can go back in to the industry and work a meaningful job and fly for fun on the side. Just look around at all the kids sitting in India with no job - and have a ton of money invested in their flight training.

. Would like to know how much it would cost to do a master degree in aviation in a normal university if you know ?? Also i did my bachelor degree in the field of electrical and electronics ..so is it possible for me too do a masters degree in aviation without a bachelor's degree in the same field .The cost of a masters degree varies from school to school. There are places like University of North Dakota (brrr!) but you would need at least a PPL to get in. It is up to you what route you want to go. Most universities have different criteria to admitting candidates in to their aviation programs. Only they can give you a definite answer on that question.

". I am 24 years old right now.So i thought doing another bachelor's degree for a another 4 years would make me too old to search for a job as a pilot"you are not old at 24. I am 29 and am about a semester away from finishing my masters degree in technical education. I have a background in Computer science. I have just started working towards my PPL and hope to have it done along with my Instrument rating by the end of the summer. So if you think it is going to be too late - I suggest you go ahead and join a flying school in Canada or the US and get your flying done in about 9 months and start looking for a job.

Cheers

[KING PIN]

I agree with Sunny on this one

[bala_murali]

Hi sunny

.Have kept Aircraft Maintenance engineering as plan B for now . Still i do have some hope for my Plan A. Will see how things work out and will let you know once i have decided.Thanks for the info.

cheers

[Seabreeze]

While you are exploring options, here are some others.

UNSW Aviation delivers a masters degree in aviation management by distance (and part-time) for those already in the industry, so this is available wherever you end up working.

They also offer a Bachelor of Aviation (Flying), which is usually taken by school leavers, but sometimes taken as a second degree. This would appear to be also an option for you.

UNSW seems to be well regarded internationally (apparently in the top 50 universities according to their web-site: University of New South Wales - UNSW - Home (http://www.aviation.unsw.edu.au)), and has just had a new fleet of Diamonds delivered. They are based in Sydney.

Their fees are not cheap, but then you presumably are after quality.

good luck

[bala_murali]

hi there

I am from India . Planning to do my flight training in USA. I did check out many school in USA ,to tell you the truth did find any special one.Had some flight schools like Phoenix East,delta connections academy in mind . Didn't get any good feedback regarding these institutions .Speaking with many aviators and students came to a conclusion that " It doesn't matter where you train ,It depends on your ability to learn ".No matter where ever i do my training in USA there is no way i can get a job USA . So i thought a normal moderate flight training academy would do the job ,since i would be coming back to India to get my license converted . My sister lives in Boston, Massachusetts and did come across a academy named " Horizon aviation " that is kinda near to my sis's place .I am planning on joining Horizon Aviations in Massachusetts ( Norwood ) Horizon Aviation - Boston Flight School & Rhode Island Flight School - MA & RI Pilot training - Providence RI & Norwood MA (http://www.horizonaviation.com/ViewPage.aspx?SectionID=10) . If this is a good enough flight school to join i could greatly save hostel expenses by staying with by sis . Would like to know if any one has trained there . Also any information regarding the academy, the management etc would help in making my decision in joining there. I just want to be sure that this institution is not gono close down due to bankruptcy after joining there . I do know bankruptcy is unpredictable but just thought getting some views from you guys could help me make up my mind .
THANK YOU FOR YOU TIME .

[sunny441]

Bala:

We are here to help you and give information. Please do not open a new topic each time. Keep posting in the old topic and someone will get back to you.

Horizon doesn't seem too bad (from the website). It is however difficult to ascertain if a company is having financial difficulties or not. How much are they charging and how many hours are you getting? If you provide us with this information we can tell you if this is a good deal or not. Watch out for "Safety Pilot" time that most schools offer to International students to keep the costs down.

From personal experience I can say that there are a lot of good, but small schools, in America. There is not much of advertising and they keep their costs down. Also you might wanna consider something soon - cost of AV gas looks like it is going up. And this cost is going to be passed on to you, the customer.

Cheers

[bala_murali]

Nice to hear from you again . Do you know the link to check the list of blacklisted school in USA and Canada. Will also speak to the people from horizon aviation and tell you the deal that would be offered to me . thanks again . Cheers !!

[sunny441]

Bala:

I have no idea about the DGCA blacklist or anything. I have no intention of working for/with the DGCA anytime soon. You will probably have to look up that info on your own.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers

Sunny

[bala_murali]

Will do sunny. thanks