View Full Version : Willie or Won't he


NutLoose
23rd Apr 2010, 15:08
Pilot at William's base changes sex - *UK News - MSN News UK (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=153145114)


Pilot at William's base changes sex

A pilot stationed at the same RAF base as Prince William is to undergo a sex change
A helicopter pilot stationed at the same RAF base as Prince William is to undergo a sex change, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

Flight Lieutenant Ian Holdom, 29, who flies with the Search and Rescue Force (Sarf) wants to become a woman called Ayla.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman stressed the RAF officer's plans to change sex were not an issue for the service - only if he could do the job.

William is training to becoming a helicopter with Sarf and is using the same officer's mess at RAF Valley on Anglesey, North Wales, as Flt Lt Holdom but it is not known if they have met.

The 29-year-old is a Sea King helicopter co-pilot while the prince will not complete his studies until September, so there is no prospect of the two flying together in the near future, said the MoD spokesman.

The Sun newspaper reported that Flt Lt Holdom told friends he had been diagnosed with gender dysmorphia and expected to become a woman in the next 12 months.

The second-in-line to the throne will be based at RAF Valley if he successfully completes his military training and will start as co-pilot.

The MoD spokesman said: "This is no big deal for the RAF, or the services in general for that matter, whether you are talking about trans-gender or homosexuality. All we have to deal with is can that person do the job, can Ian fly as a co-pilot in the search and rescue?"

Flight Lieutenant Wales, 27, can expect to be promoted to captain and overall control of the helicopter in the coming years, but how quickly will depend on his ability and performance.

William could find himself flying rescue missions to Northern Ireland as RAF Valley in North Wales routinely responds to calls from Ulster.


Why make a big fuss about William being posted to the same base????? must be short of royal stories to print



Cows getting bigger
23rd Apr 2010, 15:26
No apologies for quoting Life of Brian

Judith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

flapassym
23rd Apr 2010, 15:55
***********
It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg (http://www.pprune.org/name/nm0000092/): But you can't have babies.
Stan (http://www.pprune.org/name/nm0001385/): Don't you oppress me.
Reg (http://www.pprune.org/name/nm0000092/): Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

Gnd
23rd Apr 2010, 16:30
Is it something in the water there or the power plant???

cornish-stormrider
23rd Apr 2010, 17:03
They be nothing but a bunch of tobbaccyy chewin beer swillin webbed toed freaky rednecks - next them us Cornish look like the triumph of the gene pool.

And the water is orrible up there too.

Tis a nice evening for a flying down ere - shame I'm fixing broken machinery!

TheWizard
23rd Apr 2010, 17:37
Hod on a minute.....


Ayla Holdom ?


Not if he goes through with it she won't!! :eek:

GGR
23rd Apr 2010, 17:55
Queen Ayla..........ahem..

Coats on

GGR

reds & greens
23rd Apr 2010, 20:43
What an unusual first name, surely (s)he could have selected something a little more appropriate, - how about 'Willya...'
...Door opens for decline in thread...

Herc-u-lease
23rd Apr 2010, 20:46
Air police,

I see your view of people struggling with gender re-assignment issues is very PC, well-informed and not at all judgmental.

did i meet you at Shrivenham on the equal ops and diversity training?

captain_gash
23rd Apr 2010, 20:57
I have to say that I find it a bit 'odd'. But to be honest, do you think the poor bloke splashing around in the ogin will give a toss about the trans gender nature of the pilot flying the beast that is going to rescue him.....I think not.

Given the organisation this chap / chapette is a member of, it must have taken some real......ahem 'balls' to come out and do this. As long as he keeps flying, and saving lives I have to say I really donít care.

At least he didn't become a politician, then I would have been truly disgusted!!

sitigeltfel
23rd Apr 2010, 20:59
A few years down the road and he/she/it will squeal about discrimination/victimisation. After a bit of a kerfuffle in the courts, he/she/it will depart Bettys flying circus with a shedload of taxpayers money.

You read it here first.

Herc-u-lease
23rd Apr 2010, 21:05
this person is not the first and won't be the last. I happened to be on IOT around the time someone commissioned from the ranks having had gender re-assignment. end result was withdrawal from trg and widely publicised in the Sun. (not for gender re-assignemnt but did not complete trg)

Having met the said person, I do have great deal more sympathy for the massive decision they have to make, especially in the forces. It's just something so foreign to most people that it's so difficult to understand or empathize with.

I thought the diversity trg and EO was **** too - I had a two initiation ceremonies - 1 extra for being a gobsh1te:ok:

tarantonight
23rd Apr 2010, 21:10
I am sure the individual concerned has had a sad time trying to deal with all this. It can't be a bundle of larffs not really knowing who/what you are.

However, the Forces / Police / Health Service / Local Authority etc etc are very big on welcoming diversity in this day and age which I believe to a man (sorry), is just talk. This ain't normal and it will not be long before the individual concerned beats a quiet retreat from the RAF I'm sure. Working with an individual in these circumstances will put you on your guard at all times and the slightest slip could be career ending.

I wish him/her luck in the future, but have to say, the sultry photographs in The Sun probably haven't helped. Wonder how they got hold of those.........:rolleyes:

TheWizard
23rd Apr 2010, 21:11
I have tried to see the point of this activity but I can't work it out.

I thought about it long and hard...

WTF Next?

Are you related to Frankie Howerd?? :}

tarantonight
23rd Apr 2010, 21:14
You have a point you old Cynic you.....................

Trim Stab
23rd Apr 2010, 21:38
he/she/it will depart Bettys flying circus with a shedload of taxpayers money.



Even if you are eventually proven correct, it will not justify you bigotism. Trailblazers often do end up having to make personal sacrifices due to the prejudices of their contemporaries.

There are plenty of gay/transgender servicemen and women now quietly doing a really good job, including in front line aviation, at least partly due to the premature ending of the careers of their forebearer's, which were eventually compensated for by the taxpayer.

You should consider yourselves lucky that you get "diversity training" at the taxpayer's expense.

Grabbers
23rd Apr 2010, 21:50
Please don't feed it.

Epiphany
23rd Apr 2010, 22:10
Don't commissioning boards interview/psych test people these days? The UK military used to be held in very high regard but this sort of thing and the appalling waste of tax payers money make me ashamed.

Twon
23rd Apr 2010, 23:03
Whilst I respect his right to make this decision, there are some serious questions to be asked. How long will he be ineffective for pre, during and post op?

I recall from dealing with a potential recruit in an AFCO that the advice from the medics is that recruitment while undergoing the procedure was not permitted due to the effects of the op and the myriad of drugs that need to be taken.

If that is indeed the case, why should the RAF carry someone non-effective? Would a medical discharge not be more appropriate? I'm not saying this should happen but lets have a serious debate.

taxydual
24th Apr 2010, 00:22
And there's me thinking you had to be a complete dick to serve at Valley.

Good luck to the guy, but I hope this doesn't start a trend and ends up being made compulsory!

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
24th Apr 2010, 00:51
You should consider yourselves lucky that you get "diversity training" at the taxpayer's expense.

OK, I admit it. Mine was a complete waste of Aunty Betty's money. I do have the certificate, though. :ok:

VinRouge
24th Apr 2010, 03:15
OK, I admit it. Mine was a complete waste of Aunty Betty's money. I do have the certificate, though. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifAnd you do get to see a video of some bird get told to "sit on my face".

Quite a few smirks in the room at that one.

mikip
24th Apr 2010, 09:35
Flight Lieutenant Wales, 27, can expect to be promoted to captain

Is he changing service then or skipping a few ranks and going straight to Group Captain

BlindWingy
24th Apr 2010, 09:41
Err, this is not the first time that someone on SAR at Valley has done this......is it something to do with the location?

The RAF statement is interesting (as long as they can fly well its ok) - I thought Aircrew were Officers first and therefore had to be capable of leading people - no mention of that! It looks like all we have to do now is be able to fly!

Alvin Steele
24th Apr 2010, 20:50
No problem with people doing this.......until I unwittingly meet one on a date:yuk:

I agree with epiphany, thought you were given a thorough pyscho screening during selection, I can't help thinking a professional military service is not the right place for a TS.
Plenty of people do not make the grade for aircrew for a variety of reasons.
As someone has said, the sex change process brings about a variety of physical and mental changes, and thats before the Doc wields his scalpel, the process of hormones takes about a year, so the 'cock' pit (sorry) is no place for a pre-op.

Maybe flying a desk is the way forward, in this year of the 70th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain, I don't think RAF pilots image should be sullied in this way..............and, why Ayla?.....where did that come from?
If I went to the bother of ditching the joystick, I'd certainly select a better name.
Now where is my copy of the Daily Mail?:ugh:

622
24th Apr 2010, 21:25
@<hidden> Pious....'she' may be better able to multi task....but will never be able to park the A/C correctly again..:ouch:

barnstormer1968
24th Apr 2010, 23:16
Either the new edition of "Trolling for Internet Tough Guys" is out, or the mental age on this forum is about 12. I hope it's the former.

I have read many comments on PPRuNe similar to this recently. I realise that my army background does not allow me to fully understand the RAF (despite spending a lot of time with them), but I am starting to wonder if today's modern air force is just so busy trying to understand any and every minority view or equality, that they may be a bit too busy to do their actual core role of killing folks whom are different to them (or even folks who look/act the same)!

I am not commenting on the subject of the thread here, but rather on the touchy feely/scared to to upset anyone's feelings attitude that is appearing (among a minority of posters).
Surely the response to the question "have you had all of your diversity training?" is "do you know the taliban would torture (if they got hold of me) me and chop off my head with a sword.....And you are worried I might upset someone's feelings on my own side?....Are you sure your priorities are focussed correctly?"

Just my two penneth (knowing full well that the RAF still has its good share of steely eyed killers/ tough, committed men/women serving)

rmac
25th Apr 2010, 01:30
Reading the article it seems that he married in 2008 and intends to remain married after the op..

Seems a little confusing for me, will that make them both Lesbians then ?

Bit frightening though, as a she, she is a lot better looking (in the photos) than most of the WRAF's that I served with :eek:

Stitchbitch
25th Apr 2010, 08:39
Barnstormer, welcome to the modern Royal Air Force where niff naff and trivia rule. One wonders what the ledgends of yester-year would say, not about gender re-assignment but the lack of direction and backbone shown in some circles today. It may be a minority on PPrune but is full evident elsewhere.:(

Tourist
25th Apr 2010, 08:50
Stichbitch


"Barnstormer, welcome to the modern Royal Air Force where niff naff and trivia rule. One wonders what the ledgends of yester-year would say, not about gender re-assignment but the lack of direction and backbone shown in some circles today."

Nothing new about it. RAF led the way! With a "ledgend", no less.
Roberta Cowell | The First British Transsexual Story (http://www.transgenderzone.co.uk/features/roberta_cowell.htm)

Stitchbitch
25th Apr 2010, 09:11
Tourist, not bemoaning the gender re-assignmet chap/chap-ess, rather moaning about the fact the RAF is now seemingly run as a buisness/commercial concern, rather than a war fighting force, a job and no longer a career.
Wrong thread me thinks?! And spelling wuz nevva my strong point... ;)

Vim_Fuego
25th Apr 2010, 09:41
Would it be unreasonable for people who change their sex losing/gaining bodyparts to go back to OASC for more testing/boarding?

When they originally presented at OASC for arguements sake as a man if they had stated in a loud and confident voice that they were in the near future planning to have their penis removed, hormone levels played with and jumper 'lumped' would they have still been snapped up?

So we employed him as a perceived level headed man...who then chooses to change his sex via surgery although the Y chromosome is still present then maybe they should be treated as a new, albeit trained, applicant for total physical and mental reassessment...In competition with all the other females.

sitigeltfel
25th Apr 2010, 10:16
Lets get this straight. Humans cannot change their sex, only their appearance. A persons sex is determined at the point of conception and is irreversible. You can phaff about with hormones but the chromosomes are fixed.

There have been a very small cases of gender dysfunction, normally at puberty and beyond the control of those involved. Theirs is a medical dysfunction, not a lifestyle choice.

TheSmiter
25th Apr 2010, 10:44
And drifting just ever so slightly out of the box, at what point does the TG candidate transition from the Male fitness test to Female (or vice versa!!)

For those struggling to avoid the wrath of the PTI and incurring MAA, it could be a creative, if slightly painful, method of getting into the blue zone for life. :rolleyes:

Just a thought.

Big Unit Specialist
25th Apr 2010, 20:21
The Paras are at it too..............

Sex Change Para (http://itn.co.uk/2222c318ac56557125acd05eadd0d08b.html)

CAEBr
27th Apr 2010, 10:05
"This is wrong. The tragedy is that there are people in the higher reaches of service management without the balls to say so."

Obviously a more common occurrence than you might think then......... :rolleyes:

Pontius Navigator
27th Apr 2010, 10:29
Don't commissioning boards interview/psych test people these days? The UK military used to be held in very high regard but this sort of thing and the appalling waste of tax payers money make me ashamed.

Short answer, NO.

Longer answer, it would be illegal.

If a bloke turned up at OASC in a dress he could not be rejected for his dress sense. Now is he got his knickers in a twist . . .

Seriously, PCUK means that anything goes, even mild recreational drug use and spent criminal convictions. Personal feeling do not come in to it. The big problem here, and I mean in this thread, is that you can legislate for equality and human rights but you cannot legislate for what a person thinks.

What a person thinks then, unfortunately, impinges on what they write. While they may assess an individual as a complete **** they may over-compensate in a report to avoid the accusation of bias.

Question: What is the most senior rank that someone who has changed sex yet achieved?

Union Jack
27th Apr 2010, 11:59
What is the most senior rank that someone who has changed sex yet achieved?

Major Cockup!:)

Jack

crab@SAAvn.co.uk
27th Apr 2010, 12:22
Recent selection for promotion to Wg Cdr I believe.

NutLoose
27th Apr 2010, 12:49
I feel sorry for the guy, not the fact he is having it done, it has got to have been a hard question to answer in his mind, but the fact that simply because William is being posted to Valley his face and life is being splashed across the media, any other reason and he could have got on with his life with a bit of privacy....

Wonder if they will let him keep his tadger as a souvenior, may make a nice wallet, rub it a bit and he may be able to use it as an overnight bag :p

Doctor Cruces
27th Apr 2010, 12:54
Have any girls ever wanted to be boys or is it just us lot thniking wimmin have it easier?

Doc C

barnstormer1968
27th Apr 2010, 17:29
So, once this is all done and dusted, and this person has taken up Nutloose's offer of an genuine leather overnight bag/wallet, will their commision still be valid?

Would this be a similar situation to someone changing their name by deed poll, or is it very different?


Pro's and con's:
It would be frustrating to have to get used to doing up ladies zips and buttons, as they are the other way around. As many military men go bald due to wearing head dress often, at least this person would now be able to leave their hat on in the mess/church to hide this:}

barnstormer1968
27th Apr 2010, 17:33
Airpolice said:

However, in a warfare situation, the last thing anyone needs is to be fighting alongside an obviously flaky nutter with a fragile grasp of reality!

Airpolice, you may have stumbled on something here......Do you think we should apply this to Prime Ministers too:}

Green Flash
27th Apr 2010, 21:02
Whilst questioning if the mob has to pay for the op (I think he should pay for it all himself for no other reason than that we are utterly skint), then a thorough check by the SMO to make sure nothing could fall off:\ in flight, a chat with the trick cyclist to makes sure she's happy with the outcome, a check ride with the QHI's and back to work you go; we need all we have got. Frankly, if I was waiting to be picked up from the @<hidden> of the universe I wouldn't question if you were male, female or a 3 legged wheelbarrow from the planet Tharg; do your job, that's all we ask.
Flew with Caz once in Bosnia and it didn't seem to affect her abilities. The world spins, the world changes. Get over it.