C210 Endo/typecheck

[WhoWasPhone]

Hi all, This may have been asked before (I haven't seen it in 09's section for this board) but I'm looking for a C 210 endorsement/typecheck in either YPPH or YPJT

Does anybody know a private owner that would allow me to hire for an endorsement/typecheck and private hire for a few hours?

So far I've hit brick walls with ACFT and JFC as they either lost the X-hire contact or have 210's operating in the eastern states, any info to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance! =)

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Hot tip. (For the upteenth time!:ugh:)
You have a Manual Pitch Control and Retractable Undercarriage Design Feature ENDORSEMENT. This combined with all SE <5700kg allows you to fly a C210.
There is no such thing as a 210 endorsement.

Do not list on your resume that you have one. It shows;
a) Ignorance of the Regs
or
b) You are a Kiwi who is ignorant of the Australian rules.


Either way, it doesn't help your prospects.
All said and done, I can't help you with one on the west coast, but best of luck finding one.:ok:

[liveillusion]

Yeah what you said is true but most employers want to see if you have had any 210 experience because if you havent then chances are you will bounce it down the runway first time. I have seen it so many times before and sometimes it can be pretty ugly.:P

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Actually, they want you to meet insurance requirements. There should be no reason the landing technique for a 210 is any different to a 172.
You will get ICUS time to fine tune things before you get let loose anyway.

You will have more difficulty controlling the swing on take-off due to 300hp and managing the CSU, power settings and cowls than landing it.
Passengers are the ones who judge 95% of the flight based on the landing.

[maggotdriver]

Wish you the best of luck with your type check. Having flown about twenty different 210s and five or six different models I can only say that I love them. Watch it with flap 20 and power even in your check because if it bites, you're on your back! Also, the fuel pump is a three stage pump contrary to popular belief with the high position having two stages linked to the rocker switch on the starboard side of the firewall. This also controls the gear warning horn and from memory is meant to be set around about fifteen inches. Lastly, it doesn't land at eighty knots like half the gumbies say. Read the manual and trim it on final for the correct approach speed and you'll find it a delight. Enjoy!:ok:

[ZappBrannigan]

Either way, it doesn't help your prospects.Agree with this bit, I can't get over how many resumes I've seen lately with "endorsed on the following aircraft" followed by 10 types of light piston singles they've flown.

[40Deg STH]

Make it Happen........pull your head in, he wants a 210.

What a beautiful aircraft, I hope you get one. I love them. Its been 25 years since i flew one. The single commanche is also awesome.
Keep flying!!

Hey Zapp, you must be important!!!

[ZappBrannigan]

Hey Zapp, you must be important!!!Just a bit dumbfounded at some of the resumes I've read recently (no, I don't have any say in whether they get the job, so no, I'm not important) from guys that obviously want jobs (and have worked hard to get them), but don't know that it's the little things that give that huge impression when reading a page of info on someone. Saying you're endorsed, or as I saw recently, "type rated", on a C152, is one of those little things.

Anyway I'll shut up, don't want to hijack this thread into a resume-bashing exercise.

[Fly-by-Desire]

Cut them some slack, the poor fellas have NFI and are only doing their best to try and impress you and give you all the info they think you might want :=

[The Green Goblin]

The C210 is a joy to fly. The only reason it will bounce is if you're to fast. I used to watch a certain Kununurra operator who encouraged their Pilots to hold off as long as possible for a smooth landing. They usually touched down half way down a strip flying a ridiculously fast approach. The other operator encouraged the first Taxi way. At one time there was a certain person filming approaches by the said operator and sending it to CASA. :mad:

Contrary to popular belief once the gear and flap is out on a C210 it lands, performs and behaves like a C172 plus 5 knots. Once it is cleaned up it is a slippery little beast and a delight to fly. A bad Pilot will feel very comfortable in one after a 100 or so hours. A good Pilot with plenty of prior Cessna experience should be able to fly it well from the get go.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Hey 40,
You will have more difficulty controlling the swing on take-off due to 300hp and managing the CSU, power settings and cowls than landing it.


If this isn't a clue as to what will give you dramas (read as HELPFUL ADVICE), I don't know what is.

REALITY CHECK GUYS,
Not everyone will think a fresh CPL is God's gift to aviation. Ever met Arthur Morris? (Search for him, you'll see what I mean.) You might think I'm being a little harsh (yeah, had a bad week), but if you actually read between the lines and get past the chance to have a snipe at someone, you can see I am actually giving these guys some valid advice. By giving a little tough love out here, maybe WWP and others reading this thread will look a little more credible when they hand out a resume.:cool:


Other good one is to be careful of pulling the throttle too far back before the gear is out. The warning horn gets the pax's attention very well.:eek:

[Aerodynamisist]

The type endorsement for every aircraft is a kiwi thing I think.


Your all soft - dam soft, First time I flew a 210 I just read the bloody book figured out how to do a manual gear extension picked a few power settings did a pre flight and off we go, It's not a space shuttle it's a god dam **** box old Cessna.

[rodrigues]

Not the space shuttle, enjoyable aircraft to fly indeed. Need to be considerate of Vb when flying in turbulence on models without the wing struts. Also find a good amount of back trim on finals leads to a good landing sequence.

I made the jump from the C172 and got my head around the extra knots, size and characteristics in a few hours.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Need to be considerate of Vb when flying in turbulence on models without the wing struts.

This is a bit of folk law with no factual basis!

The only one that I know of ( on descent into Cloncurry back in the 70s) failed outboard of where the struts would be - if it had them.

Dr :8

[The Green Goblin]

The 210 has a very low Va compared to it's its cruise speed. On descent it can go through Vne real quick in the bumps if you're pushing it.

Having said that they usually fly in the very thermal rich parts of the country and have done so in many cases over 20,000 hours. Most are holding together very well and I never had any doubt about their structural integrity.

All in all, it's a good ship.

[Wally Mk2]

If I recall the C210 had a Turb Pen speed of 119kts? Obviously I shall be corrected if wrong but when I used to fly 'em (about a 100 yrs ago) I didn't much like staying above that speed in the ruff stuff as I also used to work on them, the piddly few skinny bolts holding the wings on would make a grown man cry!:-)
Nice ship to fly though & lands fabulous flap-less as long as the rwy stretches around the globe!:-) I found this out once at TW years ago, dead battery & a plane load of bikies up for a joy flight, bunch of sooks they where when they found out I had to make some sort of an emergency ldg:E
I flew in a pressurized C210 only once, could carry about 2.347 people & full fuel!!!!:}Felt a lot more solid though.


Wmk2

[Peter Fanelli]

Need to be considerate of Vb when flying in turbulence on models without the wing


That applies to any aircraft, not just the 210. Spilling your beer while in turbulence is not cool!

:=

[longrass]

+1 for peters comment

[gassed budgie]

The piddly few skinny bolts holding the wings on would make a grown man cry!:-)


The spar carry through structure on the cantilevered 210's is stronger than the earliar strutted 210's or what you might find on the 206's.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

WTF is all this crap about people being worried about cantilever wings clapping over the top???

Does anyone stress about a warrior or bonza?

Guess what? NO STRUTS!:eek:

If I recall the C210 had a Turb Pen speed of 119kts?

As always, check specific model speeds in the POH.
1978 C210M 119 KIAS @ 3800lbs
1979 C210N 125 KIAS @ 3800lbs

:ok:

[Wally Mk2]

"MIHC" seeing as I only flew the M model then my memory ain't too fuzzy yet:)

"GB" yes I recall the massive carry thru spar under the of lining of the 210 but remember something is only as strong as the weakest link, where the wings attach to that unit is where I believe failure would happen. My opinion only of course:-)

I recall not too long ago legend Astronaut Scott Crossfield died due to his C210 after having an in-flight breakup due wx. I read though it was an 'A" model meaning it had struts but all the same whenever I flew a C210 I often wondered:-)
I'd hate to imagine the cost of hiring one these days to get 'endorsed':ok:


Wmk2

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

No, you were spot on, Wal.:ok:

[WhoWasPhone]

Very interesting reading the comments so far, seems like a nice bird to fly.. albeit hard to get a hold of.

I took a walk up to the northern apron of YPJT and managed to find 3 that are usually hidden away in hangars.

I sent a few letters expressing interest in hiring out to the owner's PO Box's but so far i'm not having too much luck =\.
Also had a poke around in some of the maintenance hangars and found that 2 are in YABA and 1 in Collie.

Last i checked the going dual rate for a C210 was around $450 an hour with a wet hire rate of around $340ish depending on who you see.

So if you don't do the whole 6 hour "Endorsement" similar to a certain company (names not mentioned) i know of that does that with Mooney's; you would be looking 1-3 hours; racking up a little over 1k.

But if anyone has any contacts in WA around YPJT/YPPH that are interested in perhaps doing a X-hire agreement a PM would be much appreciated =)

On the topic of resume's (touching just briefly) What wording or layout when displaying the hours you have on certain makes/models would be looked upon most favourably when handing in a resume for your first job? (i'm getting my CPL hopefully in DEC this year; all going well)

[ZappBrannigan]

On the topic of resume's (touching just briefly) What wording or layout when displaying the hours you have on certain makes/models would be looked upon most favourably when handing in a resume for your first job? (i'm getting my CPL hopefully in DEC this year; all going well)This is just my opinion - I'm not in a position where I give the yay-or-nay to resumes, but I have looked over a few.

If you're a fresh CPL/MECIR holder who's looking for their first job, I'd say what your resume says about you as a person is probably more important than specific hours on specific types, which obviously becomes more important as you apply for more advanced jobs in the future. I'm not saying that a few hours on C210s, for example, is not a good thing if you're applying to an operator where you'll start on that type... but I've seen guys with 250 TT give very long winded accounts of the exact hours they've flown on every single type - C150, 152, 172 etc. - which is ok, but 98% of fresh CPL/MECIR holders out there will have flown a small handful of piston single types, with the usual initial multi endorsement and MECIR training time on a BE76 or similar. My point is, these details don't really make you stand out, unless it's specific time on a specific type (like the 210).

If you've got some 210 time, then of course state that. But by definition, if you're applying for your first job (and it's a suitable position for your first), then nobody expects you to have lots of hours on many types. Probably more important is how well you're going to learn how to fly safely, efficiently and professionally for the company - and you need to get this across in your application.

People can feel free to tell me this is crap.

[slice]

hmmmm.....ok - Man that's crap!!!

Nahhhh just messing with your head!!:}

[gassed budgie]

I read though it was an 'A" model meaning it had struts but all the same whenever I flew a C210 I often wondered:-)

G'day Wally. I've worried about those bolts on the 210's about as much as I've worried about the wing attach bolts on any of the Bonanza's or Sarartoga's that I've flown over the years. In other words, not a lot.
Having flown the Cirrus quite a bit over the last couple of years, I was rather surprised at the sound that greeted me when I tapped/knocked on the spar carry through structure on one of those recently. It sounded rather like a hollow cardboard box. I did wonder about that one and how much 'meat' there was in the airframe. More than enough I suppose.
But give me a 210 any day. Just as fast with an extra hour of fuel in the tanks and another two seats way down the back.
It's been suggested above that the 210's are a relatively easy aeroplane to fly and they are. Just remember though, a fully loaded 210 with the C of G sitting on the aft limit is a different machine to fly than one with a lighter load and a forward C of G.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3928/imgp65198001.jpg

Any excuse to post a nice shot of the fabulous 210 (sourced from elsewhere on the web I might add).

[Clearedtoreenter]

....and I never had any doubt about their structural integrity.

Pity Cessna and CASA don't seem quite so sure these days - what with the rumoured SIDS and 'ageing aircraft' programs.... Judging by how many old sbox 210's there are around and what they did to the Conquest, I'd be wary of investing too much in those tired old birds these days.

[Wally Mk2]

That's a great shot there "GB", I guess the pilot was searching for the rwy, hard to see when it's in yr face that close!:) It's a slick machine but typical Cessna, felt "cheap" The Beech always felt quality:-)
I really make ref to being somewhat concerned about the wings integrity when in nasty turbulence but that's just how I felt we each have our limits reasons as to why we do anything in aviation. I recall one day going to do a flight Nth of Broome up along the coast towards the Bonaparte Achaphiligo (chk spelling) in an old C210M (owned by the famous or is that infamous Bishop Jobst actually, what a character!) but the wind was howling so elected not to go purely as I didn't trust the wings, my choice:) Besides half doz sickies is not too much fun in a confined space:)


Wmk2

[WhoWasPhone]

An update on my search for a C210 for hire!

I took a stroll up jandakot airport and chatted to some people in the hangars and came back with a few callsigns and phone numbers/PO boxes

i phoned up 2 bloke asking if they were hiring their c210 out and the response i got was "Love to help you.. but No"


To give you an idea (for those who aren't clued in) the answers for minimums i got so far are:

a.) 1000hrs TT with 50 on type


b.) 200hrs TT with 50 Retractable undercarriage

I've got a few other numbers and places to try out and i'll post results when i get them =)


I think the deal with finding them down south is not so much finding the aircraft sitting there... its moreover securing private hire/use

[aileron_69]

If the wings are the weak points on 210s, then why is it the tailplane front attach point that gives all the trouble??

Whowasphone, you prob walked past my 210 out there on your stroll and I would love to help you out with some hours in the old girl but sadly my engine is timed. It'll be a few weeks until I get the new one in but if you are still looking for a plane then we might be able to sort something out.

[aerodude]

WhoWasPhone,

I think you will find most owners wont let you near their 210 unless you have at least 200hrs TT + 5 hrs on type due to insurance. But good luck trying to find one :ok:

[Peter Fanelli]

If the wings are the weak points on 210s, then why is it the tailplane front attach point that gives all the trouble??


Probably from people putting their fat arses on it to lift the nosewheel off the ground so they can spin it around out of a tight parking spot.

[aileron_69]

Probably from people putting their fat arses on it to lift the nosewheel off the ground so they can spin it around out of a tight parking spot.


Or not....
I supect in-flight stresses may have more to do with it but I cant imagine tail-sitting is all that beneficial

[WhoWasPhone]

Aerodude

Yeah its very much heading in that direction unfortunately =\

but i suppose like renting houses... there has to be at least someone stupid enough to let you in for ur first rental xD (i can hope right? haha =P )

Is it the same story with 6 seater BE35's? and possibly piper lance/saratoga/Cherokee six?

[wingman_c210]

Hi There seems to be a lot of C210 knowledge lurking on this thread - so here goes...

I am a relatively inexperienced C210 pilot - only been flying 210's for one year, but have clocked up 200hrs on my C210k (normally aspirated) over the last 12 months - mostly into bush strips. When my Cessna Centurion is fully laden but within W&B graph limits, I run out of nose forward trim in the descent, and either have to apply quite a lot of forward pressure on the yoke, or reduce power considerably, right to the bottom of the green arc (15mp) or below, slow the aircraft down considerably from say 160 to say 135 to get the aircraft to descend. This is not necessarily a problem as I prefer to descend down through turbulent air levels slowly, well within Va manoevering speed but I was wondering whether this is normal and if anyone else had had this experience. (need to plan descent carefully - slow up gently , close cowl flaps - keep engine warm). More recently I have been loading the heavier bags behind the pilots seats to get the weight forward to avoid the problem.

In all other phases of flight (Take-off and cruise), trim is fine, and forward trim problem only arises when the C210 is fully laden (5 on board + luggage). Forward trim problem when loaded manifests irrespective of fuel loads/burn.

My aircraft has a Horton STAL kit, and I was wondering if the HORTON moves CoG moment forward under heavy load on descent relative to the normal . (Horton STAL = great mod for Hot, High, Heavy bush strips by the way)

I also recently fitted an STEC55X AP and was wondering whether the mechanics had altered the rigging on installation (they say not).

Is this forward trim limit a problem or merely a safety feature?? (Although Va should, in theory increase with loading).

I also notice that my 210 flies up to 10kts slower when fully laden compared to when empty.

Bush Pilot C210 tricks from Sefofane pilots in Okavango Delta / Namibia: For short rough dirt strip take-offs under hot high heavy conditions: Follow short take-off POH. In addition: 13 degrees flap (same deflection as max aileron control surface deflection), full breaks, full power, check FULL fuel flow, MP before releasing brakes. For initial stage of ground roll, apply back pressure, slowly releasing up to 60mph (to relieve weight from landing gear, and rolling drag). Rotate at 80mph but stay low (forward yoke pressure required) , on the deck in ground effect till 90 - fly at the trees. Dont climb until 90. Thereafter climb at exactly 90. Gear away at 90 BUT ONLY AFTER positive rate of climb established. Flaps away at 100, AFTER trees VERY SLOWLY in 1 degree increments to avoid sink.

kind regards
Warwick

[Niceguysa45]

So a what is good threshold speed for a 210 then?

[aeromatt]

Rather than start a new thread I thought Id drag up this old one to ask if anyone knows of any 210's available for hire at YPJT?

JFC have given me a price but I am looking for another one to compare costs. I found Flentri Aviation in another old thread on here but their website doesn't seem to have been updated in quite a while and I haven't had any luck getting in contact with them so am assuming they're no longer around.

If anyone could steer me in the direction of any others at JT it would be appreciated :)

[Trojan1981]

You guys are on the wrong side of the country. If you were in Sydney I could give you contact details for three. Indeed one bloke was constantly calling me to fly his 200 series Cessnas, despite the fact that I had no experience on them (though plenty on other types at the time). I only ended up doing about six hours on his 210, but had the chance to fly 206s and a Soloy. I'm too busy flying other stuff now.

If you ever come over to civilization, PM me and Ill hook you up.

[ContactMeNow]

210 hire at JT?
Rather than start a new thread I thought Id drag up this old one to ask if anyone knows of any 210's available for hire at YPJT?

JFC have given me a price but I am looking for another one to compare costs. I found Flentri Aviation in another old thread on here but their website doesn't seem to have been updated in quite a while and I haven't had any luck getting in contact with them so am assuming they're no longer around.

If anyone could steer me in the direction of any others at JT it would be appreciated


I would suggest you steer clear of JFC. The instructor that will be supervising you will probably have as many hours on the C210 as you. Although the aircraft does not require a type endorsement, I would reccomend if you are going to pay top coin for a lesson - get it with someone who has time on type.

ACFT should still have access to one.

Going rate is around $350-$380/hr wet pvt hire. Add the instructor rate on that, then 1hr 'ground breifing' and you will be looking at around $500-$600 for one hour of flying.

[YPJT]

What's Jaap Flentri up to these days? He used to have the 210 market cornered in WA.

[aeromatt]

Im in ACFT a little bit and haven't heard of them having access to a c210 but ill ask next time I'm there, thanks for the info.

I did get a little bit of a shock when I got a price from JFC, in NSW recently I spoke to a guy who had a 210 available for $335 inc gst, JFC want $462 inc. I know everything costs more in WA but gees...