OAA open day!

[fabbe92]

Hello everyone, I am interested in Oxford and some other schools in the UK and I´ve decided to visit them. I live in Sweden and during the summer I have planned to visit the schools since I will be in the UK at that time anyway. The thing is that I can only visit OAA during one open day and unfortunatley, they have changed the schedule so there will be no modular open day but only the integrated. So is it the same thing or do I miss something if I go to the integrated day?

Thanks!

[IrishJetdriver]

Whilst I can't comment on which open day you should try and attend, I urge caution for when you do attend. The aim of the organisation is to take your money from you. They have no interest in you....only your money. They will assess you and heap praise upon you and how suitable you are for a job in commercial aviation. This is what they do. They are a business and nothing else. They are your enemy!! Please do not get suckered in to something that you haven't had the time to thoroughly consider. Discuss everything with your family and ensure that you have a family member with you during any assessment and subsequent appraisal.

I wish you the best of luck but keep your eyes and ears wide open.

[Adios]

I agree with IrishJetDriver's advice that you should take a parent along on FTO visits.

As for his advice to take mummy and daddy along during any pre-entry assessment; it appears he didn't read your post very well. I don't know of a modular course anywhere in the UK that requires assessment for modular students.

If you decide to apply to an integrated course, taking mum and dad to the assessment might create the impression that you are not mature enough to assess risk and make important decisions on your own. If you lack the maturity to go through selection testing on your own, I would say this is not the career for you.

As for the open day issue, why not just visit during the week? If an FTO can't shine in a one-on-three visit with you and your parents, then you shouldn't go there anyway. Don't go to an integrated course open day if you have already decided to train on the modular route.

[Callsign Kilo]

Ask them about

1. The Global Pilot Shortage
2. Why I should train now when the industry is rock bottom?
3. Pay to Fly (OAA/Parc/Easyjet scheme) and the damage it is doing.
4. Why the majority of their cadets go to Ryanair?
5. Their declining first time pass rates in the CPL/IR
6. What do there employment placement statistics really represent?
7. Is the real reason why they conduct initial training in the USA really the weather?

All fair questions when you are investing a large sum of capital. There answers will be politician like. Be prepared and do your homework. I am not pissing on your campfire here. if you are really serious about Oxford (or indeed any prolonged flight training in the current environment) then there are things you need to know. Don't fall for the glossy brochures, fancy simulators, uniforms and a fleet of aircraft with a nice paint job. It is your future and your money. Be firm. As already stated, they first and foremost are a business in need of investment in order to keep things solvent. It's a tall order for many FTOs currently.

[fabbe92]

Anyway, I´m visiting PAT, BCFT and Cabair during the same period and I´m visiting them alone during normal office days. So no open days there. So I could go the day after to Oxford and have a look but is it worth it or should I wait for a modular open day?

[G-GOLF]

If you're already nearby then you've got nothing to lose by popping down there and having a look around. Whilst there have a good chat with the students and instructors. No doubt you'll get a guided tour of the facilities and its worth asking about backseating a flight/simulator lesson or sitting in on a ground school lesson if you have time to do so. CK is right though, you need to go there, or to any FTO, with a set of questions which will help you make you're choice. Yes they are all there to make money, and lots of it. You will be presented with those glossy brochures and they'll try to reassure you that now is the time to train. But it is you're responsibilty to gather all the information you need in order to make a sensible informed decision. Visit the FTO's, list the pros and cons, create you're contingency plans and assess your level of commitment and passion.

[fabbe92]

I have millions of questions I want to ask but could someone give me some essential questions to ask every school?

[fabbe92]

Okey, Is this a neutral advisor? Where can I book one? I live outside the UK.

[G-GOLF]

No they will not be neutral. He or she will be a training advisor representing the FTO, in this case OAA. Visit the websites ''contact us'' section and you'll find the relevant telephone numbers and email address. Give them a call or drop them a message and let them know you're interested, they wont hesitate to organise a personal tour for you.

[fabbe92]

I have booked a visit to OAA during a tuesday and there will be someone there that will show me around. I don´t know if this is the advisor or not? I didn´t ask for an advisor.

[Callsign Kilo]

They will be from the marketing department, shielding you from disgruntled students and those that will give you straight answers. Call me a cynic if you like but it's standard Oxford SOP. Be armed with some hard questions because you will be fed the hard sell. Remember that it's your wonga and your future.

[fabbe92]

Something usefull to know about them? I know about their rep here at Pprune but how about pass rates in atpl, CPL, IR compared to other schools? Some fact that I can use to write down some questions.

[Aerouk]

I'm remember years ago before I start my own flight training I attended an event with my dad to a Flybe integrated course.

During the event I was so excited and amazed at what they were offering, I was pretty much ready to sign up there and then but what I never realised was that while I was listening to them discuss how fantastic everything was, my dad was sitting down working out the figures and worked out how poor the wages were and how much the repayments were.

The only answer FlyBe could give at the time was "Well... I get by alright"

[SpreadEagle]

Here is my advice. Go and look about, ask all the questions to the FTO.

And then collar a few students, milling around. Ask them. They are experiencing the organisation first hand and they are the best source. As a tip ask the older ones and the ones wearing the most stripes :ok:

They can tell you what works, what doesn't. Here is a very important question. Ask them how long the course is going to take them to complete. Some FTO's band about statements like 13 months. Ask the students. You may be horrified.

Ask the students how many hours they have gone over. This gives you an idea of how much extra money you may need as contingency.

Ask the students how often they get to fly. What is the availability of aircraft and instructors.

Ask them if they actually learnt anything in ground school or whether they had to resort to learning the questions parrot fashion from a database.

Ask if they felt their secondment to the US, Spain or where ever was worth while? Was it a massive shock coming back to the UK afterwards?

And ask if they actually enjoy it? You are going to be there for what might feel like forever at times. Some examples using hideous generalisation -
Some say Oxford is very snooty. Lots of ex-public school boys flashing daddies cash. Cabair is in the middle of no-where. Nothing to do. What sort of a life do you wish to have at your FTO and who do you want to be surrounded by?

And do some extra digging. Make sure you're chosen FTO isn't going to go bust half way through your training. That would be expensive and upsetting.

Apologies to any Oxford students past or present. Its just what I have heard, I have never been there, maybe you could give a more accurate account not based on heresay. But Cabair is in the middle of no where! :(

[G-GOLF]

Ask them how long the course is going to take them to complete
18 Months due weather causing inconsistent flying schedule
Ask the students how often they get to fly.
In the USA we would generally fly 5-6 days of the week with varied days off. UK Instrument phase was intense for about a month and a half with sim sessions 5 days a week. Flying schedule was not so consistent mainly due to the harsh winter we've had. During the snow there were periods of 2+ weeks without flying.
What is the availability of aircraft and instructors
Great during single engine flying. Twin engine CPL phase was poor due to having the minimum number of aircraft, very often all of them in maintenance at the same time and a lot of students all trying to get through at the same time, pretty much a bottle neck at the end of a long hot summer in the states.
Ask them if they actually learnt anything in ground school or whether they had to resort to learning the questions parrot fashion from a database
Nobody can deny using certain question banks during groundschool, afterall we all want the best results we can achieve. IMO its a personal choice on this one, you can try to absorb and understand the material and the instructors certainly encourage this. After all, we are learning this stuff for a reason! Not just to pass exams. The other option is to (stupidly) rely solely on those question banks to get you through and come out the other end having learnt nothing. :ugh: I myself, and the majority, chose to try understand what was being taught. Using the question banks as a revision aid, the majority of us completed GS with great results.
Ask if they felt their secondment to the US, Spain or where ever was worth while? Was it a massive shock coming back to the UK afterwards
Having travelled to the US with very little previous flying experience, coming home 5 months later with a Multi Engine CPL Pass was certainly worthwhile. We had many great times, pool parties, BBQ's, road trips, nights out and of course the flying. However, whilst out there, you are fully aware you have a job to do and a goal to achieve. The learning curve is steep, and you can feel stressed, especially as the CPL looms and you are trying to get an aircraft to go flying in. Coming back to the UK was great, as the months passed by we all just wanted to get home to our friends and family.
And ask if they actually enjoy it?
Looking back now, my answer would have to be a big yes! It was a tough 18 months of constant learning and assessment. However, being surrounded by many others going through exactly the same thing, you learn to support eachother. There were many times of high workload and stress, but having achieved the goal and having met so many great people, it was all worth it.:ok: